3.45 / 174 Forum

[schartz]

I have a mediocre GPA, but some other solid(ish) stats, and am planning on applying to law schools next cycle:

T-3 undergrad university for my major (Electrical Engineering)
UGPA: 3.45 (upward trend)
LSAT: 174
D1 Varsity Athlete in undergrad, hence GPA
MS in EE, GPA: 3.87 (lack of sport + trend continues)
2 years (at time of application process) as engineer in high tech industry

I was going to apply this year, but decided at the last moment I want another year without school first.

As you can probably guess from my background, I am very much interested in patent law. Should this affect what schools I apply to? Are any law schools renown for their IP/patent programs? What would my chances be at:

Stanford (pretty sure ~1%, but figure I might as well ask)
Columbia
Berkeley (in state)
NYU
Northwestern
Cornell
Georgetown
UCLA (in state)

[UrbanAchievers]

You live in CA, then? Santa Clara has a very highly regarded IP program. That school could be a good "safety" for you.

Check out:
http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandr ... operty-law

Edit: I'm pretty sure that your graduate GPA will not be factored into the admission process, unfortunately for you. You could attach an explanatory statement to your applications to try to convince schools that your graduate GPA is more indicative of your true scholastic potential.

[scribelaw]

You live in CA, then? Santa Clara has a very highly regarded IP program. That school could be a good "safety" for you.

Check out:
http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandr ... operty-law

Edit: I'm pretty sure that your graduate GPA will not be factored into the admission process, unfortunately for you. You could attach an explanatory statement to your applications to try to convince schools that your graduate GPA is more indicative of your true scholastic potential.

LOL -- OP has a 174 on the LSAT and you want him to apply to No. 85-ranked Santa Clara?

You will have several T-10 options and possibly NYU/Chicago.

[UrbanAchievers]

LOL -- OP has a 174 on the LSAT and you want him to apply to No. 85-ranked Santa Clara?

You will have several T-10 options and possibly NYU/Chicago.

Look into Santa Clara's IP program and reconsider your advice not to even apply. OP could get a full ride to Santa Clara, and should absolutely consider that school.

[BigFatPanda]

Greetings my fellow EE, I am glad you're applying to Law School to strengthen our rank and file.

I think Georgetown and UCLA would definitely let you in, so would Northwestern if you hammer in on your work experience. Berkeley, i am not so sure that they like your GPA, but try ED and give it a shot. I don't know why you would like to go to Cornell but hey its you.

The fact of the matter is, it doesn't really matter which school you ultimately end up with, you're gold once you graduate. Hell, my friend went to Cardozo and got a top job at BigLaw even in this economic condition.

But if you want to be Secretary of Commerce or a major legislator on the Capital Hill doing patent reform, Berkeley is your best bet. Stanford, give it a shot but don't jump off the bridge if they don't like you.

[DOOM]

Your excellent LSAT should open a lot of doors for you. Expect to be accepted at a handful of the top 14.

From your list, I would very confidently vote that you are in at NU, Cornell, GULC and UCLA.
You have a very strong chance at NYU/Columbia, and I would say IN at either if you ED'ed.
Your GPA is typically "too low" for Berkeley/Stanford, but with that high of an LSAT/and a unique hardscience background with work experience, I think you will be strongly considered at both.

I wouldn't worry too much about IP specialization. It's much more important to keep in mind the overall schools reputation (ie. ranking), placement prospects and your own quality of life/personal preferences. I would imagine you would be most happy/comfortable at a CA school.

That being said, Stanford and Berkeley are the kings in IP, Columbia also has a very strong (Top 5) program.

I agree with ScribeLaw, in that, while you are likely to get a full-ride at Santa Clara, you should be looking at $$$ from Top 15 schools as well, and I would never recommend picking a #85-ranked, regional school like Santa Clara over the schools you are going to get into on your list.

Also, I would add Harvard to your list. I have a feeling you'd get in.

[JazzOne]

I wasn't going to post in this thread, but I feel that I should add: Don't apply to Santa Clara.

[DOOM]

I'll add, and agree with BigFatPanda, that it probably doesn't matter what school you go to. go where you want. you are golden upon graduation with your BS/MS in EE and solid work experience. (You are still going to get into the very best of schools though)

Good luck to you!

[booboo]

I wasn't going to post in this thread, but I feel that I should add: Don't apply to Santa Clara.

+1.

[UrbanAchievers]

I wasn't going to post in this thread, but I feel that I should add: Don't apply to Santa Clara.

So you've all piqued my curiosity on this one. As someone with almost identical numbers to OP, I applied to Santa Clara out of interest in their IP program, which is ranked amongst the top 10 IP programs in the nation. Why the advice not to apply?

[JazzOne]

I wasn't going to post in this thread, but I feel that I should add: Don't apply to Santa Clara.

So you've all piqued my curiosity on this one. As someone with almost identical numbers to OP, I applied to Santa Clara out of interest in their IP program, which is ranked amongst the top 10 IP programs in the nation. Why the advice not to apply?

The specialty rankings are virtually meaningless IMO. Employment prospects are far more important. Better schools get better firms to come to OCI. OP will probably get a full ride somewhere that places better than Santa Clara. Where did you apply? Numbers?

[UrbanAchievers]

The specialty rankings are virtually meaningless IMO. Employment prospects are far more important. Better schools get better firms to come to OCI. OP will probably get a full ride somewhere that places better than Santa Clara. Where did you apply? Numbers?

173/3.48 (Economics, private UG)/Good softs (entrepreneurial exp)

Applied to:
Columbia
NYU
UPenn
Notre Dame
UIUC
U of Washington
Santa Clara

I assumed, probably incorrectly, that employment prospects were factored into specialty rankings. Is this not the case?

[JazzOne]

The specialty rankings are virtually meaningless IMO. Employment prospects are far more important. Better schools get better firms to come to OCI. OP will probably get a full ride somewhere that places better than Santa Clara. Where did you apply? Numbers?

173/3.48 (Economics, private UG)/Good softs (entrepreneurial exp)

Applied to:
Columbia
NYU
UPenn
Notre Dame
UIUC
U of Washington
Santa Clara

I assumed, probably incorrectly, that employment prospects were factored into specialty rankings. Is this not the case?

I don't think employment stats factor into any of the USNWR rankings, but I'll let someone else confirm or deny. Employment stats are usually reported on each law school's website, but the numbers are suspect because they often don't tell you what the response rate was for the survey. I think the best way to determine a school's placement is to see what firms interview at the school's OCI. I personally don't know much about Santa Clara, but I'm pretty sure you'll get enough money from a better school to rule it out. Good luck. Someone else jump in if my information is incorrect.

Perhaps you should send an app to GULC and Cornell? Not sure if you're interested in those schools, but they seem to be right in the sweet spot for your numbers. I'm not as informed as some other posters regarding admissions, which is why I rarely give advice on where to apply. I just thought Santa Clara was too low for ~3.5/170+.

[UrbanAchievers]

Thanks for the new perspective.

[DOOM]

Yes, Santa Clara has an excellent IP program. It's pretty much the main, if not only, thing they are nationally known for. It doesn't hurt to apply and keep them as an option, but in OPs case, he is going to get plenty of scholarship offers from top nationally-reputed schools that should negate any offers from Santa Clara.

Most important thing to keep in mind is that rankings don't last. Santa Clara could very easily fall out of the top 10 IP programs in the near future, and suddenly that reputation is meaningless (debatable whether its meaningful to begin with)

On the other hand, for the long foreseeable future, the other law schools on OP's list will remain nationally recognized as the best of the best, on name alone, for years to come.

This is important as you try to keep your options open, not just for your first law job, but for the length of your career.

[im_blue]

Stanford - out
Columbia - out
Berkeley - out
NYU - in (loves 172+ splitters)
Northwestern - in (also loves splitters)
Cornell - in
Georgetown - good chance
UCLA - out (low GPA)

[DOOM]

Stanford - out
Columbia - out
Berkeley - out
NYU - in (loves 172+ splitters)
Northwestern - in (also loves splitters)
Cornell - in
Georgetown - good chance
UCLA - out (low GPA)

Not sure if I agree with UCLA. Your lsat is high enough to get you in, almost certainly. Law School Calculator has you at greater than 80% chance of admission. Berkeley will certainly be a reach with that GPA (as will Stanford), but its a reach for *almost* everyone. I would say you have a 50/50 or better shot with Columbia. ED and you'll get in.

[jmaan]

I have a mediocre GPA, but some other solid(ish) stats, and am planning on applying to law schools next cycle:

T-3 undergrad university for my major (Electrical Engineering)
UGPA: 3.45 (upward trend)
LSAT: 174
D1 Varsity Athlete in undergrad, hence GPA
MS in EE, GPA: 3.87 (lack of sport + trend continues)
2 years (at time of application process) as engineer in high tech industry

I was going to apply this year, but decided at the last moment I want another year without school first.

As you can probably guess from my background, I am very much interested in patent law. Should this affect what schools I apply to? Are any law schools renown for their IP/patent programs? What would my chances be at:

Stanford (pretty sure ~1%, but figure I might as well ask)
Columbia
Berkeley
NYU
Northwestern
Cornell
Georgetown
UCLA (in state)

I say ur in everywhere but Stanford/CAL

Also theres no need to apply to SCU, it has a great IP program but not as good as the schools you'll get into. I was personally told that by someone whos doing IP at SCU.

[im_blue]

Stanford - out
Columbia - out
Berkeley - out
NYU - in (loves 172+ splitters)
Northwestern - in (also loves splitters)
Cornell - in
Georgetown - good chance
UCLA - out (low GPA)

Not sure if I agree with UCLA. Your lsat is high enough to get you in, almost certainly. Law School Calculator has you at greater than 80% chance of admission. Berkeley will certainly be a reach with that GPA (as will Stanford), but its a reach for *almost* everyone. I would say you have a 50/50 or better shot with Columbia. ED and you'll get in.

And LSN says only about 30% of 3.0-3.5/172+ applicants get in. LSP is useless for splitters, because certain schools just don't like low GPAs despite a super high LSAT.
http://ucla.lawschoolnumbers.com/applic ... ,7&type=jd

Likewise, Columbia is almost a certain rejection, because that low GPA won't make up for an LSAT that's below 75th percentile. It would help a lot to apply ED, however.
http://columbia.lawschoolnumbers.com/ap ... ,7&type=jd

[MURPH]

No one has mentioned this yet but have all your apps including PS and LOR ready to go before Sept 1st and get them in the very first week that they accept applications. Anne Ivey writes that this is the advice she gives most often and the advice that is most often ignored. You will have a decent advantage if your app is among the first that the adcoms read that year.

[schartz]

Thanks a lot for all your input, I really appreciate it. One of the reasons why I decided to wait another cycle is precisely so I can submit my applications early in the process. Plus, then I will feel more comfortable asking my supervisor for a recommendation letter, which could play a role at Northwestern.

UrbanAchiever, best of luck, I always love hearing success stories of fellow splitters.

[BenJ]

Basically what others have said: Stanford and Berkeley will not admit you, Columbia might and is made much more likely by ED, the rest will admit you (NYU is only guaranteed if you apply early on, but you plan to).

[DOOM]

Stanford - out
Columbia - out
Berkeley - out
NYU - in (loves 172+ splitters)
Northwestern - in (also loves splitters)
Cornell - in
Georgetown - good chance
UCLA - out (low GPA)

Not sure if I agree with UCLA. Your lsat is high enough to get you in, almost certainly. Law School Calculator has you at greater than 80% chance of admission. Berkeley will certainly be a reach with that GPA (as will Stanford), but its a reach for *almost* everyone. I would say you have a 50/50 or better shot with Columbia. ED and you'll get in.

And LSN says only about 30% of 3.0-3.5/172+ applicants get in. LSP is useless for splitters, because certain schools just don't like low GPAs despite a super high LSAT.
http://ucla.lawschoolnumbers.com/applic ... ,7&type=jd

Likewise, Columbia is almost a certain rejection, because that low GPA won't make up for an LSAT that's below 75th percentile. It would help a lot to apply ED, however.
http://columbia.lawschoolnumbers.com/ap ... ,7&type=jd

You make a good point. It's true that the predictors probably aren't so reliable for him, but I just don't think UCLA would let a 174 go with what is a pretty decent GPA from an EE major. I was admitted this cycle with a similar GPA and a 169, non-ED, non-resident, non-URM, engineer. I think schartz should be optimistic about all the schools on his list, but know that few things are certain as a splitter.

[7ED]

Don 't be so hasty on Stanford, you have decent softs in my opinion, ecspecially if thats a masters degree im reading.

Try shooting for Harvard just for the lols? Yale recently let in a 154/3.8, but that was cause hes a war veteran XD. Who knows.

[Renzo]

You're almost my numbers twin. In at NYU down, WL at Columbia, out at Berkeley and Stanford