Any MDs applying? Forum

md;jdwannabe · Post by **md;jdwannabe** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 1:40 am

I'm curious to see if any other MDs are applying. I've been in practice for 17 years and having a mid life crisis and/or fulfilling a dream. Medicine is a great field...Law seems to seep into medicine from all directions!

James Bond · Post by **James Bond** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 1:41 am

just for the hell of it...why in the world if you spend all the time/money/effort/etc. becoming a doctor, a career that is 1. far more in demand and 2. far better paying would you want to go back to school later in life to become a lawyer?

md;jdwannabe · Post by **md;jdwannabe** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 1:44 am

money's not an issue; would still practice medicine and interested in medical intellectual property

sfdreaming09 · Post by **sfdreaming09** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 1:46 am

Medicine is not "far better paying." In fact, if you graduate from a T14 and go Biglaw, I would argue that law is considerably better paying, esp. if you consider all the years of lost income that doctors forsake while they are in school/residency.

moonmaster3 · Post by **moonmaster3** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 3:45 am

sfdreaming09 wrote:Medicine is not "far better paying." In fact, if you graduate from a T14 and go Biglaw, I would argue that law is considerably better paying, esp. if you consider all the years of lost income that doctors forsake while they are in school/residency.

Your argument doesn't even make sense. You're trying to compare the salaries of the top students from 14 law schools to that of doctors everywhere. By far, doctors get paid more. There aren't even that many BigLaw jobs left and many of them have had their salaries cut.

sayan · Post by **sayan** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 3:50 am

moonmaster3 wrote:
sfdreaming09 wrote:Medicine is not "far better paying." In fact, if you graduate from a T14 and go Biglaw, I would argue that law is considerably better paying, esp. if you consider all the years of lost income that doctors forsake while they are in school/residency.
Your argument doesn't even make sense. You're trying to compare the salaries of the top students from 14 law schools to that of doctors everywhere. By far, doctors get paid more. There aren't even that many BigLaw jobs left and many of them have had their salaries cut.

The average doctor needs to get acceptance into a medical school with at least a 3.5 GPA and heavy extra-curriculars. A 3.5 GPA in a science curriculum is definitely on par with a 3.8-3.9GPA in a humanities curriculum (I've taken both science classes and humanities classes -- the difficulty is obvious even at the lower years). It's not a stretch to say that those gaining acceptance into the Top 14 law schools have grades on par with average doctors getting acceptance into medical school. For those whom get out of med school with no specialty, their pay is comparable to a high BigLaw payout of around $150-160k. However, GP salaries never increase while lawyers' do. Medical specialists can reach $500-600k at 32-33 (I think) but they're the cream of the crop. Cream of the crop lawyers are partners in law firms, and they can earn more than a million a year.

Alas, lawyers do work more hours.

moonmaster3 · Post by **moonmaster3** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 4:02 am

sayan wrote:
moonmaster3 wrote:
sfdreaming09 wrote:Medicine is not "far better paying." In fact, if you graduate from a T14 and go Biglaw, I would argue that law is considerably better paying, esp. if you consider all the years of lost income that doctors forsake while they are in school/residency.
Your argument doesn't even make sense. You're trying to compare the salaries of the top students from 14 law schools to that of doctors everywhere. By far, doctors get paid more. There aren't even that many BigLaw jobs left and many of them have had their salaries cut.
The average doctor needs to get acceptance into a medical school with at least a 3.5 GPA and heavy extra-curriculars. A 3.5 GPA in a science curriculum is definitely on par with a 3.8-3.9GPA in a humanities curriculum (I've taken both science classes and humanities classes -- the difficulty is obvious even at the lower years). It's not a stretch to say that those gaining acceptance into the Top 14 law schools have grades on par with average doctors getting acceptance into medical school. For those whom get out of med school with no specialty, their pay is comparable to a high BigLaw payout of around $150-160k. However, GP salaries never increase while lawyers' do. Medical specialists can reach $500-600k at 32-33 (I think) but they're the cream of the crop. Cream of the crop lawyers are partners in law firms, and they can earn more than a million a year.

Alas, lawyers do work more hours.

Again, you're comparing a tiny fraction of lawyers who decide to practice BigLaw to all doctors. Obviously, there will be some lawyers that get paid more than a doctor...but by far, doctors will make more than lawyers.

LSATfromNC · Post by **LSATfromNC** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 4:08 am

sayan wrote:
moonmaster3 wrote:
sfdreaming09 wrote:Medicine is not "far better paying." In fact, if you graduate from a T14 and go Biglaw, I would argue that law is considerably better paying, esp. if you consider all the years of lost income that doctors forsake while they are in school/residency.
Your argument doesn't even make sense. You're trying to compare the salaries of the top students from 14 law schools to that of doctors everywhere. By far, doctors get paid more. There aren't even that many BigLaw jobs left and many of them have had their salaries cut.
The average doctor needs to get acceptance into a medical school with at least a 3.5 GPA and heavy extra-curriculars. A 3.5 GPA in a science curriculum is definitely on par with a 3.8-3.9GPA in a humanities curriculum (I've taken both science classes and humanities classes -- the difficulty is obvious even at the lower years). It's not a stretch to say that those gaining acceptance into the Top 14 law schools have grades on par with average doctors getting acceptance into medical school. For those whom get out of med school with no specialty, their pay is comparable to a high BigLaw payout of around $150-160k. However, GP salaries never increase while lawyers' do. Medical specialists can reach $500-600k at 32-33 (I think) but they're the cream of the crop. Cream of the crop lawyers are partners in law firms, and they can earn more than a million a year.

Alas, lawyers do work more hours.

My wife use to be mad about how easy I had it compared to her. We both graduated with a 3.6, my major was Criminal Justice and hers was Molecular Biology (granted I had a 4.0 degree gpa, damn night classes when I was in the military). She definitely had to bust her ass for that grade which was around the top 5% for her program.

I think there are as many doctors that are unhappy with their field as there are lawyers with theirs, granted I think lawyers might have something to do with that. I've seen a few surveys where a majority of doctors say they will not recommend that their children become doctors. Side note, my dentist wants to attend law school and focus on defending health care providers against malpractice suits.

Not so sure about that last part, my wife is due on Christmas, our poor doctor and his children probably aren't looking forward to that but he said he will be there whenever it happens.

pany1985 · Post by **pany1985** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 4:09 am

I feel like sayan's theory that any person capable of going to medical school and getting hired as a doctor is also capable of going to a T14 law school and then getting a biglaw gig and then making partner is probably a little flawed

sayan · Post by **sayan** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 4:15 am

moonmaster3 wrote:
sayan wrote:
moonmaster3 wrote:
sfdreaming09 wrote:Medicine is not "far better paying." In fact, if you graduate from a T14 and go Biglaw, I would argue that law is considerably better paying, esp. if you consider all the years of lost income that doctors forsake while they are in school/residency.
Your argument doesn't even make sense. You're trying to compare the salaries of the top students from 14 law schools to that of doctors everywhere. By far, doctors get paid more. There aren't even that many BigLaw jobs left and many of them have had their salaries cut.
The average doctor needs to get acceptance into a medical school with at least a 3.5 GPA and heavy extra-curriculars. A 3.5 GPA in a science curriculum is definitely on par with a 3.8-3.9GPA in a humanities curriculum (I've taken both science classes and humanities classes -- the difficulty is obvious even at the lower years). It's not a stretch to say that those gaining acceptance into the Top 14 law schools have grades on par with average doctors getting acceptance into medical school. For those whom get out of med school with no specialty, their pay is comparable to a high BigLaw payout of around $150-160k. However, GP salaries never increase while lawyers' do. Medical specialists can reach $500-600k at 32-33 (I think) but they're the cream of the crop. Cream of the crop lawyers are partners in law firms, and they can earn more than a million a year.

Alas, lawyers do work more hours.

Again, you're comparing a tiny fraction of lawyers who decide to practice BigLaw to all doctors. Obviously, there will be some lawyers that get paid more than a doctor...but by far, doctors will make more than lawyers.

You don't need to be in BigLaw to be earning 150-160k/yr at 30.

sayan · Post by **sayan** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 4:17 am

pany1985 wrote:I feel like sayan's theory that any person capable of going to medical school and getting hired as a doctor is also capable of going to a T14 law school and then getting a biglaw gig and then making partner is probably a little flawed

Err.. I said the cream of the crop among the top 14 will make partner analogous to the cream of the crop among med students becoming top-paying specialists earning 400-500k/yr.

Although I concede there is a luck element to becoming partner that is not apparent for medical students wanting to become specialists.

DallasCowboy · Post by **DallasCowboy** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 4:26 am

md;jdwannabe wrote:Law seems to seep into medicine from all directions!

Flame.

md;jdwannabe · Post by **md;jdwannabe** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 1:28 pm

I have yet to receive my LSAT scores, so I dont know what the terrain to get into law school will be like. But several of the law schools have expressed an interest in having someone with a medical background, as have several law firms I've contacted and spent time poking their brains (figuratively only). Hastings for one, is trying to get a mediolegal program off the ground. It's a tricky undertaking but I wish them success. One thing is--we're all going to get sick and die at some time and like it or not both mds and jds may be sniffing aound your deathbead. Let's hope they have similar oflactory senses.

zamd006 · Post by **zamd006** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 1:41 pm

Great, as if there wasn't an oversupply of lawyers and an under-supply of doctors, now a doctor wants to be a lawyer. Not a good thing. There's too many god damn lawyers in this country already. People need to be encouraged to get engineering degrees, go into the sciences, physics, medicine....not law. Anyways, all the best to you. Hope it makes you happy.

duodora · Post by **duodora** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 1:47 pm

Good grief! Why in the world is everyone getting so critical?

md;jd posted a legitimate, easy to answer question, and everyone is jumping down his/her throat.

It seems that having a doctor well versed in law, or a lawyer well versed in medicine would be a good idea, so I'm not sure why everyone is up in arms.

to md;jd, I hope the LSAT goes well for you and best of luck with your cycle!

Philaw · Post by **Philaw** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 1:56 pm

duodora wrote:Good grief! Why in the world is everyone getting so critical?

md;jd posted a legitimate, easy to answer question, and everyone is jumping down his/her throat.

It seems that having a doctor well versed in law, or a lawyer well versed in medicine would be a good idea, so I'm not sure why everyone is up in arms.

to md;jd, I hope the LSAT goes well for you and best of luck with your cycle!

tuotora- This is TLS. Do not be surpised. Many argumentative kids/overachievers whose mothers told them "you should be a lawyer you argure so much" and took it literally.

That said, Good luck md;jd. Being a doctor AND a lawyer must be some kind of conversation starter..."what do you do?" To which md;jd replies, "Oh, nothing big. I'm a doctor and a lawyer."

md;jdwannabe · Post by **md;jdwannabe** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 2:39 pm

Thanks for your observations! When in was taking the MCAT in 1982?3?, I wondered if medical school was a good decision. I had the same doubts years later as an overworked, sleepless and penniless medical student. Internship and residency were worse. I can tell you now it was worth it and AND I would do it all over again. I learned about people and the world. (and yes I made money, let's be realistic) I learned the world is especially scary if you are ill wealth cant cure many ills.. Having a solid grounding in one field is giving me the confidence to leap into law. I have no delusions about its difficulty, the money, or lifestyle; I welcome the challenge. A number of MD/JD programs have started; my advise--get your MD, work for at least ten years and then think about why you want to go into law....then you'll know whether it is right for you or not.

BTW: Gerhard should have won the Heisman

DoubleChecks · Post by **DoubleChecks** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 2:46 pm

md;jdwannabe wrote:Thanks for your observations! When in was taking the MCAT in 1982?3?, I wondered if medical school was a good decision. I had the same doubts years later as an overworked, sleepless and penniless medical student. Internship and residency were worse. I can tell you now it was worth it and AND I would do it all over again. I learned about people and the world. (and yes I made money, let's be realistic) I learned the world is especially scary if you are ill wealth cant cure many ills.. Having a solid grounding in one field is giving me the confidence to leap into law. I have no delusions about its difficulty, the money, or lifestyle; I welcome the challenge. A number of MD/JD programs have started; my advise--get your MD, work for at least ten years and then think about why you want to go into law....then you'll know whether it is right for you or not.

BTW: Gerhard should have won the Heisman

so in a quid pro quo fashion, if i answer your original question and give you some advice, does that mean i get you to answer 1-2 simple medical questions for free? lol

UFMatt · Post by **UFMatt** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 2:50 pm

Biomedical PhD here. Not a clinician of course, but I'm applying for the IP law possibilities too.

As for being an MD JD, you could also terrify your opposition if you wanted to litigate malpractice cases.

md;jdwannabe · Post by **md;jdwannabe** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 6:30 pm

Sure, to the person who wanted to ask free medical questions. ... I'll answer them. In doing expert witness work and training, I love getting asked questions ( of course they pay and I'm held accountable) but in this forum if you have any concerns about your upset stomach, oeidphal complex, skin blemishes, or particularly neuroses, ask away. Will NOT answer any questions about plastic surgery or high colonics.

kittenmittons · Post by **kittenmittons** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 6:33 pm

md;jdwannabe wrote:Sure, to the person who wanted to ask free medical questions. ... I'll answer them. In doing expert witness work and training, I love getting asked questions ( of course they pay and I'm held accountable) but in this forum if you have any concerns about your upset stomach, oeidphal complex, skin blemishes, or particularly neuroses, ask away. Will NOT answer any questions about plastic surgery or high colonics.

What can you do about my castration anxiety?

Mr. Matlock · Post by **Mr. Matlock** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 7:02 pm

I can verify the guy to a certain extent because he ended up being geographically close, but there was an MD on here a few months back that had graduated from Columbia Medical School (confirmed) and claimed to have scored a perfect MCAT, (???). He's now a neurosurgeon with a decent looking practice. He was interested in going part time at night and just wanted the degree to help out on the legal side of his practice.

One caveat, he took the June LSAT and scored a 144... I shit you not. If you're going to do this, don't assume you can just take the LSAT cold and be fine. He had applied with that score and was shut out at every T-2 he applied to. He was going to study and retake this fall. I definitely think there would be a niche' for MD/JD's, just make sure you get into a semi-decent program.

md;jdwannabe · Post by **md;jdwannabe** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 7:11 pm

First off, no such thing as castration anxiety; one of the many things invented by Freud; in the years preceding Freud, boys were often threatened with castration if they were misbehavin' or did not score well on their University A levels.

Thanks for the note about the MD who took the LSAT casuallly. I took one look at how it was structured, read up on it and hired a tutor, took timed tests, and had dreams about seating arrangements, delivery trucks, and John Houseman. The effort was made; I await the result

Mr. Matlock · Post by **Mr. Matlock** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 7:15 pm

md;jdwannabe wrote:Thanks for the note about the MD who took the LSAT casuallly. I took one look at how it was structured, read up on it and hired a tutor, took timed tests, and had dreams about seating arrangements, delivery trucks, and John Houseman. The effort was made; I await the result

Those are some shitty assed dreams.

Good luck!!

ArtVandelay · Post by **ArtVandelay** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 7:16 pm

Not an MD, but I do have a degree in architecture.

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