Retaking the LSAT for transfer admissions? Forum

[waitingharvard]

Soo...getting ahead of myself here, but: do you guys think that retaking the LSAT and getting a higher score would help in the case of applying to transfer to another law school after your first year?

[thedogship]

I really don't think so. I just transferred and from what I can tell, the LSAT plays little to no roll in your transfer ability. The two most important things are your 1L grades and what school you earned them from (so like a 4.0 from a T4 and a 3.6 from W&L might be seen as equivalent). People from T3/T4 schools transfer all the time, and obviously those candidates didn't have good lsat scores - but they busted their ass first year and likely got near a 4.0. Studying to retake the LSAT while being a 1L student is a bad idea. People have done it, but I'm of the opinion that that time should be spent getting an A in torts and crim law instead of a 172 on the LSAT.

Edit: I am transferring from a t20 to a t14, so I really didn't sweat my lsat score for transferring purposes. But i really don't think anyone has to. the 1L grades is what it's all based on pretty much. Get some great recs too and definitely work any contacts you have.

[waitingharvard]

Thanks, VaultBound...what do you think it would take to transfer from say, a school ranked 8 or 9 to Harvard, if I was previously waitlisted for admission? Do you think stellar first-year grades would be enough to put me in the running?

Thanks again.

[rosetta]

Thanks, VaultBound...what do you think it would take to transfer from say, a school ranked 8 or 9 to Harvard, if I was previously waitlisted for admission? Do you think stellar first-year grades would be enough to put me in the running?

Thanks again.

in my opinion, it is def doable to transfer to harvard if you were waitlisted and are coming from such a highly ranked school. ppl transfer to harvard from not so highly ranked schools too, as long as they have steller grades. it seems all about the 1L grades w/transfer.

[yalie10]

Retaking the LSAT is almost guaranteed to be a waste of your time. The LSAT is pretty much irrelevant when you apply as a transfer. I applied transfer this year with a 3.99 UGPA, 1/252 Rank from George Mason Law School (3.95 GPA), and a 159 LSAT and was accepted at Yale. YMMG. I obviously did not retake and I don't think it hurt me.

I wasn't accepted at Harvard, and as no one was admitted with lower than a 162 LSAT this year or last on the Yahoo Transfer Group, my low LSAT was probably a factor in my rejection. However, you clearly have a high enough LSAT to transfer. Remember, 1L rank is the paramount factor in transfer admissions. For Harvard you're going to need to be top 5% from a lower T14. I heard you can get away with somewhat lower if you're at a school ranked a bit higher (#7-9) but I'm not sure just how deep they'll go into the class.

You're much better off focusing your efforts on preparing for law school as anything but a stellar performance will make transferring to HYS impossible. For any school other than HYS I'm pretty certain LSAT is irrelevant from the numbers I've seen on the Yahoo Transfer Group and my own experiences. Even with my dismal LSAT I was accepted to 8 of the top 10 schools (every school but Harvard and Stanford; didn't apply to Boalt).

I think a much better use of your time would be learning how to effectively brief a case, taking a prep course like Law Preview etc. I found Law Preview particularly useful. In the end, it's going to be your 1L rank that makes or breaks you. Focus all your efforts on excelling in law school. Since you're looking at T14 schools, your LSAT is clearly high enough. I would be more concerned with UGPA personally. Harvard appears to care less about UGPA than Yale for transfers, but I would be uncomfortable with anything lower than a 3.6.

You might want to have a look at the database of admission results for 2008 on the Yahoo Transfer Group. It'll give you a better idea of what you need to transfer: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/transferapps/

[yalie10]

Thanks, VaultBound...what do you think it would take to transfer from say, a school ranked 8 or 9 to Harvard, if I was previously waitlisted for admission? Do you think stellar first-year grades would be enough to put me in the running?

Thanks again.

Yes, it will completely come down to 1L rank (and possible UGPA) as your LSAT is clearly high enough for transfer admission. I have a friend who was in a position similar to yours. He was waitlisted at Harvard with a 169/3.85 and attended Georgetown. He finished his 1L year top 2% in his class and was accepted to Harvard as a transfer (but rejected at Yale - likely due to a stronger applicant from GULC who was a diversity candidate, and a lack of interest in academia).

[bryguy]

it seems all about the 1L grades w/transfer.

i agree ... my cousin transferred from a t14 to a higher ranked t14 and 1L grades were definately more important ... at least thats what the school he transferred to implied ... so i wouldnt worry about retaking the lsat ...

in fact, in my opinion, the lsat is very much similar to the sat in that both measure a students potential performance during his first year at the given institution. that said, your 1L grades will, in my opinion and experience, be much more important than an lsat score

[yalie10]

it seems all about the 1L grades w/transfer.

i agree ... my cousin transferred from a t14 to a higher ranked t14 and 1L grades were definately more important ... at least thats what the school he transferred to implied ... so i wouldnt worry about retaking the lsat ...

in fact, in my opinion, the lsat is very much similar to the sat in that both measure a students potential performance during his first year at the given institution. that said, your 1L grades will, in my opinion and experience, be much more important than an lsat score

Yeah, the LSAT is intended to function as a predictor of law school performance. However, actual 1L performance is a much better predictor of continued performance at a higher ranked school. Your individual LSAT therefore is irrelevant. What they probably do look at is the LSAT range of your law school. If you went to a T4 and the top 25% scored a 152 your rank will be discounted versus someone who went to a school with a top 25% LSAT of 170. Obviously, rank is relative to the strength of one's competition.

[EmmyD]

Let's just think about this for a second:

The LSAT score is supposed to predict, to a 30% correlation, your 1L performance.


Suppose you finish 1L and you have your grades in hand... don't 1L grades correlate 100% to 1L performance, thus making them better indicators of legal competence than the LSAT?

I don't how people come up with this shit... retaking the LSAT for transfer yadda yadda.

[AVSexton]

Well, when a school states on their transfer information page (as Harvard does), that a typical transfer candidate would have the LSAT/GPA to have been a waitlist candidate, taking that statement at face value doesn't seem to be too crazy.

[EmmyD]

candidate would have the LSAT/GPA to have been a waitlist candidate, taking that statement at face value

1) HLS accepts many people who were rejected as 0Ls, so it's no big deal.
2) The OP was waitlisted at H, so that's a moot point with respect to his specific situation.

[underdawg]

candidate would have the LSAT/GPA to have been a waitlist candidate, taking that statement at face value

1) HLS accepts many people who were rejected as 0Ls, so it's no big deal.
2) The OP was waitlisted at H, so that's a moot point with respect to his specific situation.

well your post saying how "blah blah how do people come up with this shit?" was kinda wrong in regards to HLS, no? for someone trying to transfer to HLS, a retake could conceivably help them...

[EmmyD]

candidate would have the LSAT/GPA to have been a waitlist candidate, taking that statement at face value

1) HLS accepts many people who were rejected as 0Ls, so it's no big deal.
2) The OP was waitlisted at H, so that's a moot point with respect to his specific situation.

well your post saying how "blah blah how do people come up with this shit?" was kinda wrong in regards to HLS, no? for someone trying to transfer to HLS, a retake could conceivably help them...

Sorry, I wasn't talking specifically about HLS. I really meant, "how to people come up withi this shit" in general, since... I don't know.. the thread title is...

"Retaking the LSAT for transfer admissions?"

and not

"Retaking the LSAT for HLS transfer admissions?"

[underdawg]

i believe the proper sentiment is "how does harvard come up with this shit? (taking into account your LSAT for transfer admissions)"

[EmmyD]

i believe the proper sentiment is "how does harvard come up with this shit? (taking into account your LSAT for transfer admissions)"

Honestly, I really don't think it matters with them either. If you look on the yahoo database, many people get into HLS without 0L numbers that were even T-14 worthy. That's just my intuition.

I have a stronger argument than this, but am in too much pain to say it. Maybe after I down some painkillers.... I'll feel more inclined to talk.

[underdawg]

ok, then "why is harvard spreading misinformation?" is the proper sentiment. this is the polar opposite of them sending out "even YOU have a small chance at HLS!" e-mails they send out to everyone for regular admissions, which i find weird...

[EmmyD]

ok, then "why is harvard spreading misinformation?" is the proper sentiment. t

MY second argument would've accounted for this, actually.

Too... much... pain...

[waitingharvard]

Thanks for the advice, everyone! I welcome all suggestions for getting good (great?) grades this year.

[bryguy]

oh the lawyer wannabe-ism of some people ... hahaha ...

i find it funny how after only one semester of law school people feel as if they need to make "arguments" and "juxtapose" other people's comments with what boils down to "snarky," "pretentious" remarks ... oh 1L's ... hahaha (mind you I am one myself, but you don't see me "making arguments" for the sake of ... sounding smart? is that why people do that?) hahaha

[geoff2o0o]

.

[olesya154]

Can someone help me find the Yahoo Transfer Group? I googled it but it seems tricky to find...

[SoxyPirate]

Can someone help me find the Yahoo Transfer Group? I googled it but it seems tricky to find...

Does the link in the 5th message on this thread not work for you?

[olesya154]

Duh! Should have noticed it! Thanks a lot!!!

[huckabees]

Wow, very interesting.

So why don't more people transfer?

[awesomepossum]

Wow, very interesting.

So why don't more people transfer?

because they *gasp!* like their schools?