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Getting A Lot of Waitlists

Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 9:23 pm
by GeriZ
I applied to 10 schools and have already got 5 waitlists. I don't really know what is going on.
I wonder if there is anything wrong with my application and if there is anything I can do.

3.6/173

International student
Studying in a U.S. university (graduating this May)

WL:
USC
Penn
Michigan
Berkely
Duke(priority track)

Offer:
BU
UCLA

No answers yet:
NYU
NW
Columbia(deferred for ED)

Mediocre activities and internships
Clean records

I am not really expecting a great result due to my GPA and not strong softs, but five waitlists in a row make my worry. Is there anything possibly wrong with my application? Should I send in LOCI, which areas should I cover?

Many Thanks!

Re: Getting A Lot of Waitlists

Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 6:15 pm
by jsulli24
You aren't the only one. A lot of people with great numbers have been getting waitlisted this cycle.

Re: Getting A Lot of Waitlists

Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 6:58 pm
by sparkytrainer
You are international. It is much harder for international kids nowadays because there is a genuine worry from t13 schools that you will be able to find a job in 3 years. There is a genuine risk you won't because of visa issues.

That is why you have been waitlisted.

Re: Getting A Lot of Waitlists

Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 12:12 am
by GeriZ
sparkytrainer wrote:You are international. It is much harder for international kids nowadays because there is a genuine worry from t13 schools that you will be able to find a job in 3 years. There is a genuine risk you won't because of visa issues.

That is why you have been waitlisted.


Thank you, this is an interesting perspective to think from. There is really nothing one can do about such situation.

Re: Getting A Lot of Waitlists

Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 10:59 am
by sparkytrainer
GeriZ wrote:
sparkytrainer wrote:You are international. It is much harder for international kids nowadays because there is a genuine worry from t13 schools that you will be able to find a job in 3 years. There is a genuine risk you won't because of visa issues.

That is why you have been waitlisted.


Thank you, this is an interesting perspective to think from. There is really nothing one can do about such situation.


What you can do is get some work experience for a few years. Go prove to the admissions committees you are employable here in the U.S.

Re: Getting A Lot of Waitlists

Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 8:32 am
by GeriZ
That would require certain legal status, which happens to be the problem here. Currently the working visa system works like lottery. Thanks for the advice though.

sparkytrainer wrote:
GeriZ wrote:
sparkytrainer wrote:You are international. It is much harder for international kids nowadays because there is a genuine worry from t13 schools that you will be able to find a job in 3 years. There is a genuine risk you won't because of visa issues.

That is why you have been waitlisted.


Thank you, this is an interesting perspective to think from. There is really nothing one can do about such situation.


What you can do is get some work experience for a few years. Go prove to the admissions committees you are employable here in the U.S.

Re: Getting A Lot of Waitlists

Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 8:44 am
by albanach
GeriZ wrote:I applied to 10 schools and have already got 5 waitlists. I don't really know what is going on.
I wonder if there is anything wrong with my application and if there is anything I can do.


Also, when did you apply? If it was in January, waitlists are much more common since classes have already begun to fill up. If it was in October, I'd be more concerned.

Re: Getting A Lot of Waitlists

Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 12:39 pm
by sparkytrainer
GeriZ wrote:That would require certain legal status, which happens to be the problem here. Currently the working visa system works like lottery. Thanks for the advice though.

sparkytrainer wrote:
GeriZ wrote:
sparkytrainer wrote:You are international. It is much harder for international kids nowadays because there is a genuine worry from t13 schools that you will be able to find a job in 3 years. There is a genuine risk you won't because of visa issues.

That is why you have been waitlisted.


Thank you, this is an interesting perspective to think from. There is really nothing one can do about such situation.


What you can do is get some work experience for a few years. Go prove to the admissions committees you are employable here in the U.S.


The point is if you can get a job and go through the visa process now, it will make a huge difference come application time again.

Re: Getting A Lot of Waitlists

Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 12:16 am
by ml1755235
Same here, 174/3.73, college in the U.S., waitlisted by several lower 14 and rejected by Harvard.

I applied in October with 172 but I took LSAT in February. I think they held my application until they receive my final score. Sad me, should have go with 172.

also I majored in Music. Maybe they want people who can do Patent and Corporate Law.

Seriously considering Australia ehmm...

Re: Getting A Lot of Waitlists

Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2018 7:26 pm
by GeriZ
I applied in early November, so getting this result is a bit unexpected.

albanach wrote:
GeriZ wrote:I applied to 10 schools and have already got 5 waitlists. I don't really know what is going on.
I wonder if there is anything wrong with my application and if there is anything I can do.


Also, when did you apply? If it was in January, waitlists are much more common since classes have already begun to fill up. If it was in October, I'd be more concerned.

Re: Getting A Lot of Waitlists

Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2018 7:43 pm
by GeriZ
ml1755235 wrote:Same here, 174/3.73, college in the U.S., waitlisted by several lower 14 and rejected by Harvard.

I applied in October with 172 but I took LSAT in February. I think they held my application until they receive my final score. Sad me, should have go with 172.

also I majored in Music. Maybe they want people who can do Patent and Corporate Law.

Seriously considering Australia ehmm...


I suppose it is not surprising that the law schools are more strict in admitting international students due to the nature of the industry.

I really don't know much about the legal industry in Australia, but I can't see why it is more attractive than that of the U.S., given the much smaller market size. Unless, of course, that you are Australian or have many connections there.

Re: Getting A Lot of Waitlists

Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 11:27 am
by albanach
GeriZ wrote:
I suppose it is not surprising that the law schools are more strict in admitting international students due to the nature of the industry.


Given the laws on national origin discrimination, I'd have thought they'd do their utmost to be blind to such things.

Re: Getting A Lot of Waitlists

Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 12:34 pm
by LSthrowawy2014
ml1755235 wrote:Same here, 174/3.73, college in the U.S., waitlisted by several lower 14 and rejected by Harvard.

I applied in October with 172 but I took LSAT in February. I think they held my application until they receive my final score. Sad me, should have go with 172.

also I majored in Music. Maybe they want people who can do Patent and Corporate Law.

Seriously considering Australia ehmm...


Are you K-JD? I have similar stats and applied K-Jd and got wait-listed everywhere but safeties. Worked for 2 years and applied again and got in everywhere I applied except H and UVA (that one is still weird, but I had T5 acceptances).

It will be worth it to look critically at your LORs, PS, Resume, and any additional essays.

Re: Getting A Lot of Waitlists

Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 1:28 pm
by sparkytrainer
albanach wrote:
GeriZ wrote:
I suppose it is not surprising that the law schools are more strict in admitting international students due to the nature of the industry.


Given the laws on national origin discrimination, I'd have thought they'd do their utmost to be blind to such things.


They certainly are NOT blind, but because of employment issues. International students need visas to stay. Its a lottery. That means no matter how hard a law school works to get you a job that helps their employment numbers, whether or not you actually get/keep that job is because of random chance.

Law schools are certainly concerned with that and for good reason.

Re: Getting A Lot of Waitlists

Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 2:30 pm
by albanach
sparkytrainer wrote:
They certainly are NOT blind, but because of employment issues. International students need visas to stay. Its a lottery. That means no matter how hard a law school works to get you a job that helps their employment numbers, whether or not you actually get/keep that job is because of random chance.

Law schools are certainly concerned with that and for good reason.


Good reason for the law school's ranking doesn't exempt them from their legal obligation not to discriminate based on national origin. If an applicant has a visa to study, the school doesn't have any basis to treat them differently than a similarly situated candidate born in the US.

Re: Getting A Lot of Waitlists

Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 2:38 pm
by sparkytrainer
albanach wrote:
sparkytrainer wrote:
They certainly are NOT blind, but because of employment issues. International students need visas to stay. Its a lottery. That means no matter how hard a law school works to get you a job that helps their employment numbers, whether or not you actually get/keep that job is because of random chance.

Law schools are certainly concerned with that and for good reason.


Good reason for the law school's ranking doesn't exempt them from their legal obligation not to discriminate based on national origin. If an applicant has a visa to study, the school doesn't have any basis to treat them differently than a similarly situated candidate born in the US.


I appreciate the statement, but over the past few years you can see a very discernible trend. Whether that is done in a proper manner or not, I have no idea. But the data proves all of this. International students do objectively worse in t13 admissions.

Re: Getting A Lot of Waitlists

Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 1:51 pm
by Wednesday
sparkytrainer wrote:
albanach wrote:
sparkytrainer wrote:
They certainly are NOT blind, but because of employment issues. International students need visas to stay. Its a lottery. That means no matter how hard a law school works to get you a job that helps their employment numbers, whether or not you actually get/keep that job is because of random chance.

Law schools are certainly concerned with that and for good reason.


Good reason for the law school's ranking doesn't exempt them from their legal obligation not to discriminate based on national origin. If an applicant has a visa to study, the school doesn't have any basis to treat them differently than a similarly situated candidate born in the US.


I appreciate the statement, but over the past few years you can see a very discernible trend. Whether that is done in a proper manner or not, I have no idea. But the data proves all of this. International students do objectively worse in t13 admissions.


Hi! Could you clarify what data you mean, please?

Re: Getting A Lot of Waitlists

Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 2:30 pm
by sev
Wednesday wrote:Hi! Could you clarify what data you mean, please?

I believe the data was put together by people on other forums which TLS does not allow us to link to.

Re: Getting A Lot of Waitlists

Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 2:56 pm
by Wednesday
sev wrote:
Wednesday wrote:Hi! Could you clarify what data you mean, please?

I believe the data was put together by people on other forums which TLS does not allow us to link to.


I see. I was wondering whether there were separate statistics for international students. I'm not an international student, but my BA is from an overseas institution, therefore I don't have a reportable GPA.

From some of the official data I've seen on LSAC website it appears that "no GPA" applicants often have harder time getting into law schools, but there is no way of knowing how many of them are international students and how many are domestic ones.

Re: Getting A Lot of Waitlists

Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 3:43 pm
by BobBoblaw
albanach wrote:
sparkytrainer wrote:
They certainly are NOT blind, but because of employment issues. International students need visas to stay. Its a lottery. That means no matter how hard a law school works to get you a job that helps their employment numbers, whether or not you actually get/keep that job is because of random chance.

Law schools are certainly concerned with that and for good reason.


Good reason for the law school's ranking doesn't exempt them from their legal obligation not to discriminate based on national origin. If an applicant has a visa to study, the school doesn't have any basis to treat them differently than a similarly situated candidate born in the US.


LOL @ people who should know better confusing national origin with alienage.

Re: Getting A Lot of Waitlists

Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 4:36 pm
by albanach
BobBoblaw wrote:
albanach wrote:
sparkytrainer wrote:
They certainly are NOT blind, but because of employment issues. International students need visas to stay. Its a lottery. That means no matter how hard a law school works to get you a job that helps their employment numbers, whether or not you actually get/keep that job is because of random chance.

Law schools are certainly concerned with that and for good reason.


Good reason for the law school's ranking doesn't exempt them from their legal obligation not to discriminate based on national origin. If an applicant has a visa to study, the school doesn't have any basis to treat them differently than a similarly situated candidate born in the US.


LOL @ people who should know better confusing national origin with alienage.


Not entirely sure what you're getting at. If the applicant has a valid visa, you can't discriminate against them. Just like if you have an applicant for employment with a H4 and EAD, you can't say you're not hiring them on alienage grounds as opposed to national origin (unless you happen to be the federal government or a state entity dealing with national security).