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I got a full-ride to Penn State - Dickinson and 24k per year to South Carolina. I know Tennessee is not usually a scholarship heavy school. Does anyone know if they might come off of a scholarship? maybe match?

I've been accepted to two schools, both about the same rank, and in the same geographic location. School A is my preferred school, and they're offering half tuition, while School B on the other hand is offering 75% tuition. I intend to try and negotiate up with School A. Would anyone mind proofreading the letter I am working on?

(double post)

Has anyone been successful negotiating with WUSTL without a better scholarship elsewhere? How would one go about asking for one?

I seem to be essentially the only person with my stats on LSN without a full ride (but don't really think that's a thing I can just outright say) and am in at a couple higher ranked schools, including at least one T14 though probably at sticker.

Jack_Kelly wrote:Has anyone been successful negotiating with WUSTL without a better scholarship elsewhere? How would one go about asking for one?

I seem to be essentially the only person with my stats on LSN without a full ride (but don't really think that's a thing I can just outright say) and am in at a couple higher ranked schools, including at least one T14 though probably at sticker.

Also curious on this. I've gotten into one t14 so far and I think I got lowballed with my offer. I see people with 3 points lower LSAT and same GPA getting same offer. Haven't heard from scholarships anywhere else as well yet.

I would say wait it out. The group I was hanging out with during Notre Dame's ASW all got a scholarship bump at WUSTL. Several full rides were given. A few of us had half rides that got raised to full rides.

playmaker093 wrote:

Jack_Kelly wrote:Has anyone been successful negotiating with WUSTL without a better scholarship elsewhere? How would one go about asking for one?

I seem to be essentially the only person with my stats on LSN without a full ride (but don't really think that's a thing I can just outright say) and am in at a couple higher ranked schools, including at least one T14 though probably at sticker.

Also curious on this. I've gotten into one t14 so far and I think I got lowballed with my offer. I see people with 3 points lower LSAT and same GPA getting same offer. Haven't heard from scholarships anywhere else as well yet.

Even with merit scholarships, it's not * LSAT + * GPA gets you *** exact amount of money. You should negotiate if you get an offer from a peer school, but you shouldn't feel cheated because you got into a t14 or because people who had a lower LSAT got the same offer.

Does anyone know anything about South Carolina's scholarship process/negotiating? Their website says that most scholarship offers are made in March, but I've already received the non-resident scholarship which takes their tuition down to around 30k. I've received similar dollar amount (about 20-25k) offer, but SC's out of state tuition is 10k+ more than most other state schools so I'm wondering if they negotiate and if they would consider that.

Jack_Kelly wrote:Has anyone been successful negotiating with WUSTL without a better scholarship elsewhere? How would one go about asking for one?

I seem to be essentially the only person with my stats on LSN without a full ride (but don't really think that's a thing I can just outright say) and am in at a couple higher ranked schools, including at least one T14 though probably at sticker.

I feel you. I was in the same boat last year. They never budged on my offer. I think a lot of it has to do with demographics and other circumstances. For instance, they really seem to want people from NYC and Cali right now that can go back and open up opportunities for future graduates/raise overall national reputation. I suspect many of those students are getting better scholarship packages than candidates from the Midwest with similar numbers. I wouldn't outright talk about it with any of my classmates, but I have a feeling there are a few people in our class from the Northeast that had worse stats than me that ended up with a full ride after initially being offered nothing.

Like someone else said, there's no 1 to 1 correlation between scholarship money and stats. It's just how it seems to go. Keep trying, though and good luck!

Revive. I am wondering if folks out there are already starting to work the scholarship game, and if so, any successes out there?

When should I start negotiating? Like is now too early?

carmtastic wrote:When should I start negotiating? Like is now too early?

+1 Part of me thinks that the earlier the better if you have shollys to leverage, which I do. Some schools admitted me prior to a higher LSAT score and increased GPA due to my final semester of grades being posted. It seems to me this gives me a "free round" of asking about uping shollys before I come back later with competing offers. However, after spending a couple of days reading the other 9 million posts on this thread, there seems to be a divided camp on when to start this process. Some believe that it is best to start much later, when applicants have started to withdrawal, people are getting rejected, others admitted via ED, others simply are happy and deposit, etc, for the applicant pool - i.e., the supply - is lower, hence making your position stronger as you have less competition. However, the flip side is that this stuff takes time to go back and forth between schools, and eventually, money becomes sparse. So, I think the answer is - as always in life and the law - it depends.

Now is the time to really hit negotiating. December LSATs are in, so ADCOMs know generally what the applicant pool looks like. Before you get started negotiating, you want to form a coherent strategy for the negotiations. Don't just toss around tuition discounts at every school admitting you hoping they'll enter into a feeding frenzy. Schools are generally quite purposeful with the way they offer tuition discounts. They're not offering you an additional tuition discount because they want to remain competitive for you. Schools will know when they legitimately want you as a student and what you provide for their yield, and they'll also have a pretty accurate gauge on whether you're actually likely to attend. Both of those things will factor into whether they offer increased discounts.

UVA2B wrote:Now is the time to really hit negotiating. December LSATs are in, so ADCOMs know generally what the applicant pool looks like. Before you get started negotiating, you want to form a coherent strategy for the negotiations. Don't just toss around tuition discounts at every school admitting you hoping they'll enter into a feeding frenzy. Schools are generally quite purposeful with the way they offer tuition discounts. They're not offering you an additional tuition discount because they want to remain competitive for you. Schools will know when they legitimately want you as a student and what you provide for their yield, and they'll also have a pretty accurate gauge on whether you're actually likely to attend. Both of those things will factor into whether they offer increased discounts.

I agree with most everything you said. The only exception being that just because the Dec. LSAT is posted doesn't mean the vast majority of the applicants have filed. From reading forums and interviews with various Deans, there seems to be a massive spike in application submissions in the month of January. I would suspect that things are still a bit in flux regarding what their applicant pool ultimately is going to be with the exception of T20 schools who have normalized applicant pools from year to year for the most part. Just my two cents, perhaps that is all it is worth

NukinFutz wrote:

UVA2B wrote:Now is the time to really hit negotiating. December LSATs are in, so ADCOMs know generally what the applicant pool looks like. Before you get started negotiating, you want to form a coherent strategy for the negotiations. Don't just toss around tuition discounts at every school admitting you hoping they'll enter into a feeding frenzy. Schools are generally quite purposeful with the way they offer tuition discounts. They're not offering you an additional tuition discount because they want to remain competitive for you. Schools will know when they legitimately want you as a student and what you provide for their yield, and they'll also have a pretty accurate gauge on whether you're actually likely to attend. Both of those things will factor into whether they offer increased discounts.

I agree with most everything you said. The only exception being that just because the Dec. LSAT is posted doesn't mean the vast majority of the applicants have filed. From reading forums and interviews with various Deans, there seems to be a massive spike in application submissions in the month of January. I would suspect that things are still a bit in flux regarding what their applicant pool ultimately is going to be with the exception of T20 schools who have normalized applicant pools from year to year for the most part. Just my two cents, perhaps that is all it is worth

I'm sorry I wasn't more clear: while not all applications are submitted, what I'm telling you is ADCOMs tend to key off of the results of the LSAT more than specific applications (I think you're alluding to this differing at lower ranked schools, which I'll admit is entirely possible). And this cycle has already seen pretty heavy high LSAT applications, so when they see the number of administrations and the performance data, admissions are pretty accurately assessing their needs for the rest of this application cycle. And you're right that when you travel down the rankings to regional schools, the applicant pools tend to be more specific, so as to make admissions a little less polished in assessing their applicant field.

Anyway, it's still the sweet spot where tuition discounts haven't been offered entirely, but there is a reasonable amount of certainty where those tuition discounts need to go. So negotiations should be happening now if they're ever going to happen. And they should continue until you've played all of your cards.

UVA2B wrote:

NukinFutz wrote:

UVA2B wrote:Now is the time to really hit negotiating. December LSATs are in, so ADCOMs know generally what the applicant pool looks like. Before you get started negotiating, you want to form a coherent strategy for the negotiations. Don't just toss around tuition discounts at every school admitting you hoping they'll enter into a feeding frenzy. Schools are generally quite purposeful with the way they offer tuition discounts. They're not offering you an additional tuition discount because they want to remain competitive for you. Schools will know when they legitimately want you as a student and what you provide for their yield, and they'll also have a pretty accurate gauge on whether you're actually likely to attend. Both of those things will factor into whether they offer increased discounts.

I agree with most everything you said. The only exception being that just because the Dec. LSAT is posted doesn't mean the vast majority of the applicants have filed. From reading forums and interviews with various Deans, there seems to be a massive spike in application submissions in the month of January. I would suspect that things are still a bit in flux regarding what their applicant pool ultimately is going to be with the exception of T20 schools who have normalized applicant pools from year to year for the most part. Just my two cents, perhaps that is all it is worth

I'm sorry I wasn't more clear: while not all applications are submitted, what I'm telling you is ADCOMs tend to key off of the results of the LSAT more than specific applications (I think you're alluding to this differing at lower ranked schools, which I'll admit is entirely possible). And this cycle has already seen pretty heavy high LSAT applications, so when they see the number of administrations and the performance data, admissions are pretty accurately assessing their needs for the rest of this application cycle. And you're right that when you travel down the rankings to regional schools, the applicant pools tend to be more specific, so as to make admissions a little less polished in assessing their applicant field.

Anyway, it's still the sweet spot where tuition discounts haven't been offered entirely, but there is a reasonable amount of certainty where those tuition discounts need to go. So negotiations should be happening now if they're ever going to happen. And they should continue until you've played all of your cards.

Cheers, and agreed. I am concerned about coming off ungrateful by hitting admissions with discount requests, notwithstanding being extremely professional, polite and clear. I have no reason to suppose that there is a 'curing' point when it becomes appropriate to approach schools about tuition discounts, it is just my gut telling me - as an adult student - that the way to show appreciation and persuade is to not respond close thereafter to a scholarship with getting down to business. I must admit, I have no experience with this with respect to law schools; just a ton of reading and reviewing of threads, others experiences, forums and interviews with Deans on the subject. I do realize that each of those sources have their bias.

How aggressive should one be in including other schools' scholarship info in scholarship applications to be submitted now? Specific case in question for me at the moment - I have full and close to full tuition at two top 10s - while other top 10s are only admitting now or releasing scholarship application forms now. Even if those forms don't ask what other scholarships you have in hand, should you force it in anyway, or should you submit the form, give it a few weeks, and then make a call?

Thanks!

NukinFutz wrote:Cheers, and agreed. I am concerned about coming off ungrateful by hitting admissions with discount requests, notwithstanding being extremely professional, polite and clear. I have no reason to suppose that there is a 'curing' point when it becomes appropriate to approach schools about tuition discounts, it is just my gut telling me - as an adult student - that the way to show appreciation and persuade is to not respond close thereafter to a scholarship with getting down to business. I must admit, I have no experience with this with respect to law schools; just a ton of reading and reviewing of threads, others experiences, forums and interviews with Deans on the subject. I do realize that each of those sources have their bias.

I mean, my thoughts re: timing is that when you get a job offer, you are expected to respond rather quickly (a couple weeks max from just my own experience) so the negotiating of salaries etc. happens pretty soon after you get an offer letter. Of course in law school people who have been accepted early and have received some scholarship info already usually have several months to make a final decision, but I would think they'd understand the need to get the negotiation process started ASAP... I guess I'm also not 100% sure how close is too close for you - days, weeks, a month?

Bush v. Gorgeous wrote:How aggressive should one be in including other schools' scholarship info in scholarship applications to be submitted now? Specific case in question for me at the moment - I have full and close to full tuition at two top 10s - while other top 10s are only admitting now or releasing scholarship application forms now. Even if those forms don't ask what other scholarships you have in hand, should you force it in anyway, or should you submit the form, give it a few weeks, and then make a call?

Thanks!

Bringing everything to the table will be appreciated more than you think. ADCOMs can get annoyed with excessively drawn out negotiations where you needlessly slow-play the negotiation. Especially when you're already playing with full rides at T13, I would imagine there is little use in somehow keeping another scholarship in the hole. Let them know what your offers look like, and reiterate your interest in their school genuinely. They aren't offering more because someone else did first. They'll offer more because you really show an interest in the school and want to attend for a similar price to a comparable offer.

UVA2B wrote:

Bush v. Gorgeous wrote:How aggressive should one be in including other schools' scholarship info in scholarship applications to be submitted now? Specific case in question for me at the moment - I have full and close to full tuition at two top 10s - while other top 10s are only admitting now or releasing scholarship application forms now. Even if those forms don't ask what other scholarships you have in hand, should you force it in anyway, or should you submit the form, give it a few weeks, and then make a call?

Thanks!

Bringing everything to the table will be appreciated more than you think. ADCOMs can get annoyed with excessively drawn out negotiations where you needlessly slow-play the negotiation. Especially when you're already playing with full rides at T13, I would imagine there is little use in somehow keeping another scholarship in the hole. Let them know what your offers look like, and reiterate your interest in their school genuinely. They aren't offering more because someone else did first. They'll offer more because you really show an interest in the school and want to attend for a similar price to a comparable offer.

Awesome - I was hoping you'd answer! I'll do as you suggest. Much appreciated.

38981928 wrote: I guess I'm also not 100% sure how close is too close for you - days, weeks, a month?

I should have clarified; thanks for pointing that out. I received some offers starting a few days before Christmas, and a few more this week.

Does anyone have some experience with Spivey consulting negotiation package? I'm thinking about hiring them if I don't get into H or S and for what I know they are great, but I wanted some feedback from someone who tried that specific service...

Feel free to PM me if you don't want to share publicly! Thanks!

InterLaw wrote:Does anyone have some experience with Spivey consulting negotiation package? I'm thinking about hiring them if I don't get into H or S and for what I know they are great, but I wanted some feedback from someone who tried that specific service...

Feel free to PM me if you don't want to share publicly! Thanks!

I don't have any experience with Spivey, but I can't imagine why you would need such a 'service'. In the kindest way possible, you are going to be a lawyer. I would be confident in your ability to assess your strengths, your offers, write letters, make phone calls, persuade, and gauge timing..... all things you are going to have to do as an attorney.

NukinFutz wrote:

InterLaw wrote:Does anyone have some experience with Spivey consulting negotiation package? I'm thinking about hiring them if I don't get into H or S and for what I know they are great, but I wanted some feedback from someone who tried that specific service...

Feel free to PM me if you don't want to share publicly! Thanks!

I don't have any experience with Spivey, but I can't imagine why you would need such a 'service'. In the kindest way possible, you are going to be a lawyer. I would be confident in your ability to assess your strengths, your offers, write letters, make phone calls, persuade, and gauge timing..... all things you are going to have to do as an attorney.

I mean, presumably Spivey is familiar with negotiation in the law school market, knows how schools like to be approached, knows the quirks of the different financial aid offices, etc. I work in sales and I’d probably do a better job of negotiating within my market than any attorney unfamiliar with my market. Not because I’m smarter than them, because I know my market. I know the costs of production, the degree to which people will cave on negotiations, when/how/who to approach, etc.

I’m not sure how much the scholly negotiation costs from Spivey, but since their full package is 5k we can infer that it’s less than that. In other words, if Spivey does at least 5k better than you in negotiation, (however, as I said earlier, this number is probably less than 5k) then he was a profitable investment, and he handled your labor.

I’m not saying it’s mandatory or anything, and law school veterans can feel free to correct me as I am a 0L. I just think your view is shortsighted.

181plz wrote:

NukinFutz wrote:

InterLaw wrote:Does anyone have some experience with Spivey consulting negotiation package? I'm thinking about hiring them if I don't get into H or S and for what I know they are great, but I wanted some feedback from someone who tried that specific service...

Feel free to PM me if you don't want to share publicly! Thanks!

I don't have any experience with Spivey, but I can't imagine why you would need such a 'service'. In the kindest way possible, you are going to be a lawyer. I would be confident in your ability to assess your strengths, your offers, write letters, make phone calls, persuade, and gauge timing..... all things you are going to have to do as an attorney.

I mean, presumably Spivey is familiar with negotiation in the law school market, knows how schools like to be approached, knows the quirks of the different financial aid offices, etc. I work in sales and I’d probably do a better job of negotiating within my market than any attorney unfamiliar with my market. Not because I’m smarter than them, because I know my market. I know the costs of production, the degree to which people will cave on negotiations, when/how/who to approach, etc.

I’m not sure how much the scholly negotiation costs from Spivey, but since their full package is 5k we can infer that it’s less than that. In other words, if Spivey does at least 5k better than you in negotiation, (however, as I said earlier, this number is probably less than 5k) then he was a profitable investment, and he handled your labor.

I’m not saying it’s mandatory or anything, and law school veterans can feel free to correct me as I am a 0L. I just think your view is shortsighted.

Thanks!