I was waiting for someone to point this out! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illusory_superioritycotiger wrote:I love that in most of these there's about a 50/50 split between average and above average softs and basically no one with below average softs.
It is extremely doubtful that all of your softs are as awesome as you think they are.
2013-2014 Admissions Spreadsheets Forum
- TheMostDangerousLG
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Re: 2013-2014 Admissions Results: Spreadsheet Compendium
- neprep
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Re: 2013-2014 Admissions Results: Spreadsheet Compendium
Strange, though, because there are definitely "what are my chances" posts that often have something like "so-so softs" or "…and nothing great about my softs." But these spreadsheets clearly have many rockstars.TheMostDangerousLG wrote:I was waiting for someone to point this out! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illusory_superioritycotiger wrote:I love that in most of these there's about a 50/50 split between average and above average softs and basically no one with below average softs.
It is extremely doubtful that all of your softs are as awesome as you think they are.
- TheMostDangerousLG
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Re: 2013-2014 Admissions Results: Spreadsheet Compendium
Right? But as soon as people have to compare themselves to others, they decide they're actually sitting pretty.neprep wrote:Strange, though, because there are definitely "what are my chances" posts that often have something like "so-so softs" or "…and nothing great about my softs." But these spreadsheets clearly have many rockstars.TheMostDangerousLG wrote:I was waiting for someone to point this out! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illusory_superioritycotiger wrote:I love that in most of these there's about a 50/50 split between average and above average softs and basically no one with below average softs.
It is extremely doubtful that all of your softs are as awesome as you think they are.
If I had to guess, I'd say 90% of the people who rate themselves "above average" are actually average, 10% really are above average, and of the people who rated themselves "average", 10% are above average, 40% are average, and 50% are below average.
- lawschool22
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Re: 2013-2014 Admissions Results: Spreadsheet Compendium
According to some research my company has done as far as comparing people on job performance (which may be somewhat comparable to this situation), we should be seeing something like this (1 is best):TheMostDangerousLG wrote:Right? But as soon as people have to compare themselves to others, they decide they're actually sitting pretty.neprep wrote:Strange, though, because there are definitely "what are my chances" posts that often have something like "so-so softs" or "…and nothing great about my softs." But these spreadsheets clearly have many rockstars.TheMostDangerousLG wrote:I was waiting for someone to point this out! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illusory_superioritycotiger wrote:I love that in most of these there's about a 50/50 split between average and above average softs and basically no one with below average softs.
It is extremely doubtful that all of your softs are as awesome as you think they are.
If I had to guess, I'd say 90% of the people who rate themselves "above average" are actually average, 10% really are above average, and of the people who rated themselves "average", 10% are above average, 40% are average, and 50% are below average.
1 rated - 5%
2 rated - 15%
3 rated - 50%
4 rated - 20%
5 rated - 10%
- iamgeorgebush
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Re: 2013-2014 Admissions Results: Spreadsheet Compendium
Hey OP, I've been thinking about this, and I feel like there could be a better/more descriptive category than "highly unique," for several reasons:
1. There is no degree to uniqueness; something is either unique or it isn't.
2. Uniqueness seems like a pretty high bar to set. Founders of multi-million dollar charities, for instance, are not unique, but that would be a soft that is definitely higher on the scale than "above average."
3. A soft could be unique but not all that helpful. For example, someone might be the only amateur basket weaver to apply to LS this year, but that would probably not count as anything more than above average (assuming the applicant didn't make it to the basket weaving world championships or anything).
Maybe replace the category with something like "Very good"?
1. There is no degree to uniqueness; something is either unique or it isn't.
2. Uniqueness seems like a pretty high bar to set. Founders of multi-million dollar charities, for instance, are not unique, but that would be a soft that is definitely higher on the scale than "above average."
3. A soft could be unique but not all that helpful. For example, someone might be the only amateur basket weaver to apply to LS this year, but that would probably not count as anything more than above average (assuming the applicant didn't make it to the basket weaving world championships or anything).
Maybe replace the category with something like "Very good"?
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- lawschool22
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Re: 2013-2014 Admissions Results: Spreadsheet Compendium
I agree - I set up those categories without really thinking about the description. My main goal was to have a 1-5 scale. I think the description could be better, but the work of changing the formulas, updating the answers already given by people, etc. across 10+ spreadsheets would be a lot of work without too much gain. What may be better is providing a definition/guideline on the first page for answering that question. Maybe we can work out some descriptions and guidelines that I can add which would achieve the same goal?iamgeorgebush wrote:Hey OP, I've been thinking about this, and I feel like there could be a better/more descriptive category than "highly unique," for several reasons:
1. There is no degree to uniqueness; something is either unique or it isn't.
2. Uniqueness seems like a pretty high bar to set. Founders of multi-million dollar charities, for instance, are not unique, but that would be a soft that is definitely higher on the scale than "above average."
3. A soft could be unique but not all that helpful. For example, someone might be the only amateur basket weaver to apply to LS this year, but that would probably not count as anything more than above average (assuming the applicant didn't make it to the basket weaving world championships or anything).
Maybe replace the category with something like "Very good"?
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Re: 2013-2014 Admissions Results: Spreadsheet Compendium
Should there be a URM checkbox? Or am I so rare that I should just be happy as an outlier?
EDIT: Saw the URM checkbox in many. There isn't one in Georgetown.
EDIT: Saw the URM checkbox in many. There isn't one in Georgetown.
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Re: 2013-2014 Admissions Results: Spreadsheet Compendium
Could there be a "Why X" or "Optional Essay" box, at least for Michigan, Duke, Penn, and UVA?
p.s. OP i like you
p.s. OP i like you
- iamgeorgebush
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Re: 2013-2014 Admissions Results: Spreadsheet Compendium
Yeah, no big deal. It's awesome that you've done this at all. I don't really know if people would follow the descriptions and guidelines anyway.lawschool22 wrote:I agree - I set up those categories without really thinking about the description. My main goal was to have a 1-5 scale. I think the description could be better, but the work of changing the formulas, updating the answers already given by people, etc. across 10+ spreadsheets would be a lot of work without too much gain. What may be better is providing a definition/guideline on the first page for answering that question. Maybe we can work out some descriptions and guidelines that I can add which would achieve the same goal?iamgeorgebush wrote:Hey OP, I've been thinking about this, and I feel like there could be a better/more descriptive category than "highly unique," for several reasons:
1. There is no degree to uniqueness; something is either unique or it isn't.
2. Uniqueness seems like a pretty high bar to set. Founders of multi-million dollar charities, for instance, are not unique, but that would be a soft that is definitely higher on the scale than "above average."
3. A soft could be unique but not all that helpful. For example, someone might be the only amateur basket weaver to apply to LS this year, but that would probably not count as anything more than above average (assuming the applicant didn't make it to the basket weaving world championships or anything).
Maybe replace the category with something like "Very good"?
- lawschool22
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Re: 2013-2014 Admissions Results: Spreadsheet Compendium
Good catch! I'll fix when I'm near a computer...Blackjack45 wrote:Should there be a URM checkbox? Or am I so rare that I should just be happy as an outlier?
EDIT: Saw the URM checkbox in many. There isn't one in Georgetown.
- lawschool22
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Re: 2013-2014 Admissions Results: Spreadsheet Compendium
They probably wouldn'tiamgeorgebush wrote:Yeah, no big deal. It's awesome that you've done this at all. I don't really know if people would follow the descriptions and guidelines anyway.lawschool22 wrote:I agree - I set up those categories without really thinking about the description. My main goal was to have a 1-5 scale. I think the description could be better, but the work of changing the formulas, updating the answers already given by people, etc. across 10+ spreadsheets would be a lot of work without too much gain. What may be better is providing a definition/guideline on the first page for answering that question. Maybe we can work out some descriptions and guidelines that I can add which would achieve the same goal?iamgeorgebush wrote:Hey OP, I've been thinking about this, and I feel like there could be a better/more descriptive category than "highly unique," for several reasons:
1. There is no degree to uniqueness; something is either unique or it isn't.
2. Uniqueness seems like a pretty high bar to set. Founders of multi-million dollar charities, for instance, are not unique, but that would be a soft that is definitely higher on the scale than "above average."
3. A soft could be unique but not all that helpful. For example, someone might be the only amateur basket weaver to apply to LS this year, but that would probably not count as anything more than above average (assuming the applicant didn't make it to the basket weaving world championships or anything).
Maybe replace the category with something like "Very good"?
- lawschool22
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Re: 2013-2014 Admissions Results: Spreadsheet Compendium
Nice idea - would be interesting to see if that indeed has an effect and the magnitude. I'll have to work out how to "control" for lsat/gpa to calculate the effect.scoobers wrote:Could there be a "Why X" or "Optional Essay" box, at least for Michigan, Duke, Penn, and UVA?
p.s. OP i like you
Also, thanks for the praise. I have to say, your posts in the October waiters thread were very entertaining and kept me sane during that time. So I like you too!
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Re: 2013-2014 Admissions Results: Spreadsheet Compendium
A description might be helpful. I think probably a big divide is K-JD applicants (like myself) being inclined to compare softs relative to other college seniors, whereas obviously the softs are relative to all applicants including people coming from great careers. At least for me at first I thought "I'm about average for a college senior with a couple very good internships in my field of study, a couple of organizations, some journalism, etc." because these are by no means anything crazy special like some of my friends here who are exec for AS and volunteer all the damn time while being captain of the surf team, etc. But I also know plenty of people within my major who did a WHOLE lot less.lawschool22 wrote:
I agree - I set up those categories without really thinking about the description. My main goal was to have a 1-5 scale. I think the description could be better, but the work of changing the formulas, updating the answers already given by people, etc. across 10+ spreadsheets would be a lot of work without too much gain. What may be better is providing a definition/guideline on the first page for answering that question. Maybe we can work out some descriptions and guidelines that I can add which would achieve the same goal?
But then I realized a) those aren't people applying to T14s, and b) that excludes the huge number of applicants who have had real careers not just internships and have more time to accomplish more than me. This is anecdotal but I could definitely see other K-JD hopefuls falling into the same trap.
I think maybe just a brief description of even just what "average" means could help people decide where they stand rather than leaving it to everyone on their own to use their own measuring sticks. Either way this is a great idea and probably one of the best things in this admissions forum so thank you big time for putting this together lawschool22
Last edited by drevo on Mon Nov 18, 2013 1:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2013-2014 Admissions Results: Spreadsheet Compendium
lawschool22 wrote:Nice idea - would be interesting to see if that indeed has an effect and the magnitude. I'll have to work out how to "control" for lsat/gpa to calculate the effect.scoobers wrote:Could there be a "Why X" or "Optional Essay" box, at least for Michigan, Duke, Penn, and UVA?
p.s. OP i like you
Also, thanks for the praise. I have to say, your posts in the October waiters thread were very entertaining and kept me sane during that time. So I like you too!
Im also really excited to see how much the numbers converge to the reported 25-50-75. this was a fantastic idea and thanks for spending the time to do it!
- neprep
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Re: 2013-2014 Admissions Results: Spreadsheet Compendium
lawschool22, do you like me too?scoobers wrote:lawschool22 wrote:Nice idea - would be interesting to see if that indeed has an effect and the magnitude. I'll have to work out how to "control" for lsat/gpa to calculate the effect.scoobers wrote:Could there be a "Why X" or "Optional Essay" box, at least for Michigan, Duke, Penn, and UVA?
p.s. OP i like you
Also, thanks for the praise. I have to say, your posts in the October waiters thread were very entertaining and kept me sane during that time. So I like you too!
Im also really excited to see how much the numbers converge to the reported 25-50-75. this was a fantastic idea and thanks for spending the time to do it!
- iamgeorgebush
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Re: 2013-2014 Admissions Results: Spreadsheet Compendium
75% of the K-JDs on the CLS spreadsheet listing their softs as above average. Some real special snowflakes here on TLS.
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Re: 2013-2014 Admissions Results: Spreadsheet Compendium
this was discussed in the previous pages. someone either needs to come up with guidelines or stop making fun of us. We can only compare to people we know and adjust from there. HTH.iamgeorgebush wrote:75% of the K-JDs on the CLS spreadsheet listing their softs as above average. Some real special snowflakes here on TLS.
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- iamgeorgebush
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Re: 2013-2014 Admissions Results: Spreadsheet Compendium
I know, I was a part of said discussion...just reiterating.scoobers wrote:this was discussed in the previous pages. someone either needs to come up with guidelines or stop making fun of us. We can only compare to people we know and adjust from there. HTH.iamgeorgebush wrote:75% of the K-JDs on the CLS spreadsheet listing their softs as above average. Some real special snowflakes here on TLS.
- kwu
- Posts: 24
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Re: 2013-2014 Admissions Results: Spreadsheet Compendium
"Highly Unique" : Rhodes
"Above Average" : Marshall/Gates/Fulbright/Truman; MBB Consulting/bulge bracket Investment Banking
"Average" : student government, student newspaper, neighborhood outreach, fund raising
"Below Average" : one or two of "average," internships at no-name firms revealing lack of focus
"Weak" : few to no ECs, few to no internships
"Above Average" : Marshall/Gates/Fulbright/Truman; MBB Consulting/bulge bracket Investment Banking
"Average" : student government, student newspaper, neighborhood outreach, fund raising
"Below Average" : one or two of "average," internships at no-name firms revealing lack of focus
"Weak" : few to no ECs, few to no internships
- Otunga
- Posts: 1317
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Re: 2013-2014 Admissions Results: Spreadsheet Compendium
Makes me reconsider saying that I'm retaking for HYS and more scholarship money. Since my softs are in the weak category (not k-jd; not sure if it matters), I probably should just say H and more scholarship money.
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Re: 2013-2014 Admissions Results: Spreadsheet Compendium
ty tykwu wrote:"Highly Unique" : Rhodes
"Above Average" : Marshall/Gates/Fulbright/Truman; MBB Consulting/bulge bracket Investment Banking
"Average" : student government, student newspaper, neighborhood outreach, fund raising
"Below Average" : one or two of "average," internships at no-name firms revealing lack of focus
"Weak" : few to no ECs, few to no internships
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- iamgeorgebush
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Re: 2013-2014 Admissions Results: Spreadsheet Compendium
Eh, you make it seem like adcoms only care about brand names. From everything I've heard and read, an interesting story goes a lot further than having all the right checkboxes marked (excluding the LSAT and GPA checkboxes). You're leaving out all kinds of uncommon softs like "Sommelier at a Michelin starred restaurant" that, paired with a compelling personal statement, could strengthen an application more than stuff like consulting and i-banking.kwu wrote:"Highly Unique" : Rhodes
"Above Average" : Marshall/Gates/Fulbright/Truman; MBB Consulting/bulge bracket Investment Banking
"Average" : student government, student newspaper, neighborhood outreach, fund raising
"Below Average" : one or two of "average," internships at no-name firms revealing lack of focus
"Weak" : few to no ECs, few to no internships
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Re: 2013-2014 Admissions Results: Spreadsheet Compendium
-_______-iamgeorgebush wrote:Eh, you make it seem like adcoms only care about brand names. From everything I've heard and read, an interesting story goes a lot further than having all the right checkboxes marked (excluding the LSAT and GPA checkboxes). You're leaving out all kinds of uncommon softs like "Sommelier at a Michelin starred restaurant" that, paired with a compelling personal statement, could strengthen an application more than stuff like consulting and i-banking.kwu wrote:"Highly Unique" : Rhodes
"Above Average" : Marshall/Gates/Fulbright/Truman; MBB Consulting/bulge bracket Investment Banking
"Average" : student government, student newspaper, neighborhood outreach, fund raising
"Below Average" : one or two of "average," internships at no-name firms revealing lack of focus
"Weak" : few to no ECs, few to no internships
what is your list then
- lawschool22
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Re: 2013-2014 Admissions Results: Spreadsheet Compendium
Maybe could we post this over in the Spivey/Karen B thread and get their thoughts?scoobers wrote:-_______-iamgeorgebush wrote:Eh, you make it seem like adcoms only care about brand names. From everything I've heard and read, an interesting story goes a lot further than having all the right checkboxes marked (excluding the LSAT and GPA checkboxes). You're leaving out all kinds of uncommon softs like "Sommelier at a Michelin starred restaurant" that, paired with a compelling personal statement, could strengthen an application more than stuff like consulting and i-banking.kwu wrote:"Highly Unique" : Rhodes
"Above Average" : Marshall/Gates/Fulbright/Truman; MBB Consulting/bulge bracket Investment Banking
"Average" : student government, student newspaper, neighborhood outreach, fund raising
"Below Average" : one or two of "average," internships at no-name firms revealing lack of focus
"Weak" : few to no ECs, few to no internships
what is your list then
- iamgeorgebush
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- Joined: Sat Oct 05, 2013 3:57 pm
Re: 2013-2014 Admissions Results: Spreadsheet Compendium
"Highly Unique" : Rhodes, founder of a nonprofit/startup, chef at a Michelin starred restaurant, NFL player, published novelist, etc.scoobers wrote:-_______-iamgeorgebush wrote:Eh, you make it seem like adcoms only care about brand names. From everything I've heard and read, an interesting story goes a lot further than having all the right checkboxes marked (excluding the LSAT and GPA checkboxes). You're leaving out all kinds of uncommon softs like "Sommelier at a Michelin starred restaurant" that, paired with a compelling personal statement, could strengthen an application more than stuff like consulting and i-banking.kwu wrote:"Highly Unique" : Rhodes
"Above Average" : Marshall/Gates/Fulbright/Truman; MBB Consulting/bulge bracket Investment Banking
"Average" : student government, student newspaper, neighborhood outreach, fund raising
"Below Average" : one or two of "average," internships at no-name firms revealing lack of focus
"Weak" : few to no ECs, few to no internships
what is your list then
"Above Average" : Marshall/Gates/Fulbright/Truman, MBB Consulting/bulge bracket Investment Banking, production assistant at CNN, paralegal at the ACLU, software engineer at a venture-funded startup, officer of a state or national student organization, etc.
"Average" : student government, student newspaper, neighborhood outreach, fund raising, officer at a student club or two, etc. (some combination of at least three of these)
"Below Average" : one or two of "average"
"Weak" : few to no ECs/internships
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