Ultimate California Application Thread Forum

[Mroberts3]

I'm one of those people getting really F*&#ed by the combination of

A) increased UC cost -- I know, I know, we're all getting F*&#ed by this one.
B) numbers (3.66/167) that won't get me into Berkeley or UCLA
C) The fact that Davis/Hastings have no money to give away

Sigh, such a drop from USC to Davis...looks like I'm banking on some tiny $$ from USC or sticker at Davis. This has me so worried that I threw out two more apps today to UA and ASU to see if maybe I can get some money there. I'm considering JAG and both Arizona schools have ROTC detachments, but if I don't get in then it looks like I'd be in Arizona for the forseable future.


All the lawyers at my office tell me they went to Hastings for like 3k a semester only ten years ago. I think we should all work together to build a time machine...

[soccersmo]

Be aware of Loyola's anti transfer policies

Loyola has an anti-transfer policy? Can you explain?

Loyola 1Ls who ask for recommendation letters or letters of good standing (required to transfer) are disqualified from participation in OCI. Sounds fantastic, but it's true. So if you do well enough at Loyola and want to transfer, there is no looking back.

wow, what douchebags.

+1... that is lame

[General Tso]

hastings is raising in-state tuition 20% next year to $39,000. this makes me want to go to a private school.

Loyola/USD/Pepperdine/Santa Clara still provide far weaker career prospects than Davis/Hastings. And don't forget about their GPA req's.

i meant somewhere else. what am i to do when GWU lets me in and it costs the same as hastings?! i'm gonna have to live in DC, damnit!

Yeah that is great if you want to work on the east coast. But Hastings/Davis still probably provide better access to CA market than anything outside the T20.

[superflush]

hastings is raising in-state tuition 20% next year to $39,000. this makes me want to go to a private school.

Loyola/USD/Pepperdine/Santa Clara still provide far weaker career prospects than Davis/Hastings. And don't forget about their GPA req's.

i meant somewhere else. what am i to do when GWU lets me in and it costs the same as hastings?! i'm gonna have to live in DC, damnit!

Yeah that is great if you want to work on the east coast. But Hastings/Davis still probably provide better access to CA market than anything outside the T20.

So what, I'd still roll the dice with GW. Plus the COL in DC is still cheaper than SF.

[ruleser]

Your right, I forgot loyola's anti-transfer bit, they say it is only while the ap is out because they reserve resources for loyola students, and transfers should use thei new school's oci.

I really think they hurt themselves with this stuff. Especially now, if they guaranteed scholarships and weren't douchey about transferring, they could suck at least some who fear paying ucla/usc prices and start to raise their numbers.

Seriously, law schools provide nothing but lecture halls, and somehow med school is cheaper. Wtf

[acrossthepond]

I applied to:

Pepperdine
Santa Clara
UC Irvine
Chapman

I just heard from Chapman - full ride. They hadn't even notified me I was complete yet, I still thought they were waiting on the hard copy of my scores. I am assuming I was an auto admit.

I really hope the other schools give me some money or turning down a full ride is going to be hard.

[mhernton]

Might as well make a substantive post -

A point on UCI -
I think its rise, especially its future employment prospects, will be stronger than many believe. While the market in LA is certainly not wanting for grad and the Orange County market can only take so many without turning down USC/UCLA people, UCI has a majorly underdeveloped ace in the hole - the Inland Empire.

Currently the IE, a region with a population of around 4 million people, only has one law school - La Verne. An area with a population greater than 24 states has only a single ABA law school. I'm not one to disparage schools, but UCI is clearly already more of a powerhouse than La Verne. UCI, compared to LA-area schools, is also much better located to completely dominate the underdeveloped and growing legal market in Riverside and San Bernardino counties.[/quote]

What reality are you living in?? UCI has no reputation...It has a clever marketing strategy that says we are as good any top 30 school. They may be true, it may not be. Fundamentally all Law Schools are the same, hence the ABA accreditation, thats why all 1Ls take essentially the same courses. Reputations are based on the quality of a product and since UCI doesn't have a product yet, it has no reputation. There are no alumni out there greasing the skids to get 1L and 2L students interviews. UCI students have to compete head to head in SC with USC, UCLA and USD in the San Diego Market. Personally I'd hire a Loyola grad before a UCI grad, then at least I know what I'm getting. Even the DA jobs go to Southwestern grads. The UCI grads from the first class are in good shape, they got essentially a free law degree. This next class is gambling 18K a year on a pipe dream all because marketing. At Least La Verne has Riverside and San Bernadino. Good Luck to all those heading to Irvine...

[ruleser]

So uci's not a good choice, so what is the consensus - what would people say are good choices - the uc's are out, and I might even include berkeley in that, 50k+ a year instate? How can it not fall in the rankings, and is the risk ite worth it? So is chapman with a full ride the new #1? (Is there a gpa stip for chap?)

[Quine]

I'm wondering if UCLA will maintain its [USNWR rankings] edge over USC over the next 10 years once it becomes more expensive. UCLA will still have what most would consider a superior location, but if USC manages to keep its tuition at 45 grand as UCLA reaches 50, I'm betting many of those student who were just getting off of the wait-list at UCLA would instead attend a school that's giving them money for the same numbers.

Does anyone know more about this?

[acrossthepond]

Chapman - 3.0 required for all three years.

Pepperdine is my first choice and I am above their 75% with my LSAT. So I am hoping for some scholarship, but I am still waiting to go complete with them!

[ruleser]

We can only guess, bit not an unreasonable guess - with ucla slated to be 50+instate, and who knows what other increases - as well as cuts inside the prog - will come, usc becomes more stable and maybe stays cheaper. I really think we have to see all the uc's dive, first hastings and davis, then ucla and even berk.

[sibley]

Be aware of Loyola's anti transfer policies

Loyola has an anti-transfer policy? Can you explain?

Loyola 1Ls who ask for recommendation letters or letters of good standing (required to transfer) are disqualified from participation in OCI. Sounds fantastic, but it's true. So if you do well enough at Loyola and want to transfer, there is no looking back.

Can't you tell them the letter of good standing is for an internship? And then reuse an old LOR from when you applied, plus one from a clinic you did, or one from a prof you tell is for a summer educational program?....

[Borhas]

So uci's not a good choice, so what is the consensus - what would people say are good choices - the uc's are out, and I might even include berkeley in that, 50k+ a year instate? How can it not fall in the rankings, and is the risk ite worth it? So is chapman with a full ride the new #1? (Is there a gpa stip for chap?)

I doubt increase prices will cause a significant fall in the rankings for the UC's. One, the more schools spend the more their spending helps their rankings (school spending per student), two, the alternatives just aren't there in CA. USC and Stanford have very small class sizes, they just can't support the CA market all by themselves.

[Veritas]

Let's play hypos across the board:

UCI (half tuition) versus UCLA sticker?
Davis/Hastings sticker versus USD/LLS half tuition?
USC versus UCLA?
LLS sticker versus Southwestern Full ride

[JOThompson]

Let's play hypos across the board:

UCI (half tuition) versus UCLA sticker?
UCLA sticker
Davis/Hastings sticker versus USD/LLS half tuition?
USD/LLS half tuition
USC versus UCLA?
UCLA
LLS sticker versus Southwestern Full ride
Southwestern

[jay115]

I'm one of those people getting really F*&#ed by the combination of

A) increased UC cost -- I know, I know, we're all getting F*&#ed by this one.
B) numbers (3.66/167) that won't get me into Berkeley or UCLA
C) The fact that Davis/Hastings have no money to give away

Sigh, such a drop from USC to Davis...looks like I'm banking on some tiny $$ from USC or sticker at Davis. This has me so worried that I threw out two more apps today to UA and ASU to see if maybe I can get some money there. I'm considering JAG and both Arizona schools have ROTC detachments, but if I don't get in then it looks like I'd be in Arizona for the forseable future.


All the lawyers at my office tell me they went to Hastings for like 3k a semester only ten years ago. I think we should all work together to build a time machine...

You have a shot at UCLA. After all, 50% of their incoming class does have to fall below their medians as well and they can't all be URMs.

I'm wondering if UCLA will maintain its [USNWR rankings] edge over USC over the next 10 years once it becomes more expensive. UCLA will still have what most would consider a superior location, but if USC manages to keep its tuition at 45 grand as UCLA reaches 50, I'm betting many of those student who were just getting off of the wait-list at UCLA would instead attend a school that's giving them money for the same numbers.

Does anyone know more about this?

Everyone can be paranoid about increasing tuition prices, but no one looks at sticker prices when deciding which law schools to attend - it's price after scholarship/aid, which the tuition increases go towards. Basically, the UCs are raising tuition so that they can fund more scholarships to attract better students. This seems to contradict everyone's prediction that Boalt and UCLA are going to tank off the face of the USWNR.

I agree with the above poster who said more merit-based scholarships need to be issued (which they probably will be) and that Boalt (and increasingly, UCLA) are not longer going to be "public" law schools in practice. After all, unlike UVA and TX, Boalt and UCLA don't reserve a portion of their class for only instate students. As CA begins to reduce their funding for the law schools and as UCLA and Boalt begin to build their own independent endowments, they will probably begin to mimic more private law school practices (less emphasis on "soft factors," increased pressure on alumni funding for endowments and chairships, etc).

Even Hastings is beginning its first capital campaign in its history and hired a new law dean to specifically execute the capital campaign. The CA public law schools system is over, and we should treat the law school admissions process as such.

[davidicus]

Applied to:

Stanford
Boalt
UCLA - In
USC
Pepperdine - In w/$$$

[savesthedayajb]

Let's play hypos across the board:

UCI (half tuition) versus UCLA sticker?
UCLA
Davis/Hastings sticker versus USD/LLS half tuition?
that's a tough one
USC versus UCLA?
UCLA, unless USC offers at least 10k
LLS sticker versus Southwestern Full ride

LLS, SW has tooo much to compete with in LA/CA

[finalaspects]

What reality are you living in?? UCI has no reputation...It has a clever marketing strategy that says we are as good any top 30 school. They may be true, it may not be. Fundamentally all Law Schools are the same, hence the ABA accreditation, thats why all 1Ls take essentially the same courses. Reputations are based on the quality of a product and since UCI doesn't have a product yet, it has no reputation. There are no alumni out there greasing the skids to get 1L and 2L students interviews. UCI students have to compete head to head in SC with USC, UCLA and USD in the San Diego Market. Personally I'd hire a Loyola grad before a UCI grad, then at least I know what I'm getting. Even the DA jobs go to Southwestern grads. The UCI grads from the first class are in good shape, they got essentially a free law degree. This next class is gambling 18K a year on a pipe dream all because marketing. At Least La Verne has Riverside and San Bernadino. Good Luck to all those heading to Irvine...

I can see your point. But playing the devil's advocate here are some things to consider.

1. UCI already has a faculty that ranks in the top10 (Brian Leiter's Ranking). Although the faculty is half the size so hence it was doubled what they do have. But if they continue it'll be top notch. Their faculty is very respected among top20 schools (since they're mostly from there)

2. UCI has gone all in. Although they have no reputation, they know its in their best interest to make SURE, more so than most schools, since all their reputation depends on it, to help them find great jobs. Salary will matter for stats and numbers sake and with 60 students, they will need to help all of them. Other schools care but their entire reputation doesn't depend on it like Irvine's does.

3. Its a UC. Without that i might have agreed, but i doubt loyola will fare better then Irvine's. Consider that UC's student's profile was actually top 20 material, their faculty is top 10 material, and if firms know this, i think they will do better then loyola. Especially consider all the businesses that donated millions of dollars will look to recruit from Irvine. (some probably didn't want loyola graduates at all and hence donated)

[General Tso]

Let's play hypos across the board:

UCI (half tuition) versus UCLA sticker? ------ UCLA STICKER
Davis/Hastings sticker versus USD/LLS half tuition? ------- D/H STICKER
USC versus UCLA? ------- WHICHEVER CHEAPER, IF SAME $$ --> TOSS UP
LLS sticker versus Southwestern Full ride SW FULL RIDE

[finalaspects]

Let's play hypos across the board:

UCI (half tuition) versus UCLA sticker? ------ UCLA STICKER
Davis/Hastings sticker versus USD/LLS half tuition? ------- D/H STICKER
USC versus UCLA? ------- WHICHEVER CHEAPER, IF SAME $$ --> TOSS UP
LLS sticker versus Southwestern Full ride SW FULL RIDE

what about UCI (half tuition) or Davis/Hastings Sticker?

[anothernancydrew]

Applied to:

UC Davis
Santa Clara - in w/ $
U San Francisco - in
Pacific McGeorge - in (hearing about $ in the next few days)

I love California, but I doubt that I actually end up at any of these schools.

[Veritas]

Let's play hypos across the board:

UCI (half tuition) versus UCLA sticker? ------ UCLA STICKER
Davis/Hastings sticker versus USD/LLS half tuition? ------- D/H STICKER
USC versus UCLA? ------- WHICHEVER CHEAPER, IF SAME $$ --> TOSS UP
LLS sticker versus Southwestern Full ride SW FULL RIDE

what about UCI (half tuition) or Davis/Hastings Sticker?

Oh, I didn't put that one because that's a tough call!

I might take UCI

[General Tso]

I can see your point. But playing the devil's advocate here are some things to consider.

1. UCI already has a faculty that ranks in the top10 (Brian Leiter's Ranking). Although the faculty is half the size so hence it was doubled what they do have. But if they continue it'll be top notch. Their faculty is very respected among top20 schools (since they're mostly from there)

2. UCI has gone all in. Although they have no reputation, they know its in their best interest to make SURE, more so than most schools, since all their reputation depends on it, to help them find great jobs. Salary will matter for stats and numbers sake and with 60 students, they will need to help all of them. Other schools care but their entire reputation doesn't depend on it like Irvine's does.

3. Its a UC. Without that i might have agreed, but i doubt loyola will fare better then Irvine's. Consider that UC's student's profile was actually top 20 material, their faculty is top 10 material, and if firms know this, i think they will do better then loyola. Especially consider all the businesses that donated millions of dollars will look to recruit from Irvine. (some probably didn't want loyola graduates at all and hence donated)

1. How many prof's does UCI have right now? 20? 30? 10? I am pretty sure if you took a small sample like that from any other T50 school and looked only at them, you would have a "Top 10 Faculty" as well. Even average schools like USD have a few superstar profs like Yale Kamisar.

2. Not sure about this...there is only so much a careers office can do. Unless you start swapping acceptances for politicians kid's in exchange for biglaw jobs ala Illinois.

3. Agree on this one - UCI will blow away the T2 privates in SoCal at some point.

[General Tso]

what about UCI (half tuition) or Davis/Hastings Sticker?

UCI half tuition no question. Unless you are incredibly risk averse and will still need only 75k or less debt at D/H. If you are looking at 100k debt at D/H vs. 50k debt UCI then you are a fool not to go with UCI, I think.