Chances at Money from Cornell? Forum

[ersh1428]

I'm pretty confident I'll get into Cornell with a 167 and 3.95, but is a New Years Eve application to late to qualify for scholarship? LSN seems to show a wide range of numbers getting money offers, but I'm not sure how reliable they are.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

[Kiersten1985]

Not to break your spirit, but with this cycle's unpredictability particularly with Cornell, you're not an auto-admit. No one really is.

[ersh1428]

That's interesting to hear. I figured money was probably a long shot this late in the cycle, but I sort of guessed with with a GPA in the top 25 and an LSAT right around the mean I'd be in pretty good shape for at least an admit.

What has been happening this cycle with Cornell that is so unusual?

[Unitas]

That's interesting to hear. I figured money was probably a long shot this late in the cycle, but I sort of guessed with with a GPA in the top 25 and an LSAT right around the mean I'd be in pretty good shape for at least an admit.

What has been happening this cycle with Cornell that is so unusual?

They held auto-admits from their EA section... WL auto-admits and I believe even rejected auto-admits.

Read through the Cornell thread. It was very strange. http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... start=4400

EDITS: Start reading the thread around page 85. Not sure on the exact page

[polaris769]

Even if you got in, I don't think you'd get significant money from Cornell, at most probably 8k/year. Cornell's very stingy with money.

[najumobi]

I'm pretty confident I'll get into Cornell with a 167 and 3.95, but is a New Years Eve application to late to qualify for scholarship? LSN seems to show a wide range of numbers getting money offers, but I'm not sure how reliable they are.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

keirsten is right, there aren't really any applicants to cornell that are auto-admits, but your 3.95 makes you about as close to an auto-admit as you can get.

of the the 11 167s accepted to cornell last year only 1 reported receiving a scholly, 10k/year. cornell isn't very liberal with scholarship money.

[ersh1428]

Thanks for the input. I'm kind of kicking myself for not applying earlier in the cycle, I sent most of my apps out first week of November, and for some reason Cornell just wasn't really on my radar. I'm hoping I get in, since I think it would be a pretty good fit. My only acceptance so far is Fordham with 15K/year, but Cost of Living brings that right along the lines with Cornell at sticker, so obviously even without money Cornell would be a better option.

[Unitas]

Thanks for the input. I'm kind of kicking myself for not applying earlier in the cycle, I sent most of my apps out first week of November, and for some reason Cornell just wasn't really on my radar. I'm hoping I get in, since I think it would be a pretty good fit. My only acceptance so far is Fordham with 15K/year, but Cost of Living brings that right along the lines with Cornell at sticker, so obviously even without money Cornell would be a better option.

Whole thread on that topic: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&t=100830
Fordham Vs. Cornell

[najumobi]

Personally, I think they're scheming to boost their LSAT medians...but I could be absolutely wrong about that, of course.

i don't think they're trying to boost their stats at all. according to LSN for this cycle, of the 7 applicants with 168 and 3.4/3.5 who applied under EA only 1 was admitted. the rest were deferred. so there doesn't seem to be evidence as of yet that they're trying to boost their lsat median.

I actually think that it is also hard for cornell to raise their lsat median, especially considering they don't give out much money. cornell has to compete with ucla, usc, texas, and vandy for applicants with 168 and gpas at or above 3.4-3.79 since those schools give tons of scholly money. cornell has to compete with the bottom of the T14 for applicants with 168 and gpas 3.8 or greater since those students would opt for higher ranked T14 schools.

[Hopefullawstudent]

I actually think that it is also hard for cornell to raise their lsat median, especially considering they don't give out much money. cornell has to compete with ucla, usc, texas, and vandy for applicants with 168 and gpas at or above 3.4-3.79 since those schools give tons of scholly money. cornell has to compete with the bottom of the T14 for applicants with 168 and gpas 3.8 or greater since those students would opt for higher ranked T14 schools.

Well Cornell, if you're reading this.. I am a 168/3.5 candidate who will happily pay full sticker. And, it should go without saying that Cornell should raise their LSAT medians this year. 1) There are more "qualified" applicants to choose from this cycle, and 2) In the rankings game, it's do or die: Raise your median numbers or fall in the rankings. That simple. I will essentially guarantee that Cornell posts a 168 or even 169 median LSAT for the class of 2013. GPA figures probably won't rise much as those are not pegged to a nation-wide curve like the LSAT.

[ndirish2010]

I'll happily pay sticker at Cornell and I'm 3.66/168...I hope they're listening too.

[najumobi]

I actually think that it is also hard for cornell to raise their lsat median, especially considering they don't give out much money. cornell has to compete with ucla, usc, texas, and vandy for applicants with 168 and gpas at or above 3.4-3.79 since those schools give tons of scholly money. cornell has to compete with the bottom of the T14 for applicants with 168 and gpas 3.8 or greater since those students would opt for higher ranked T14 schools.

Well Cornell, if you're reading this.. I am a 168/3.5 candidate who will happily pay full sticker. And, it should go without saying that Cornell should raise their LSAT medians this year. 1) There are more "qualified" applicants to choose from this cycle, and 2) In the rankings game, it's do or die: Raise your median numbers or fall in the rankings. That simple. I will essentially guarantee that Cornell posts a 168 or even 169 median LSAT for the class of 2013. GPA figures probably won't rise much as those are not pegged to a nation-wide curve like the LSAT.

LOL@statement addressing Cornell.

cornell had an 8% increase in last year's cycle over the cycle before that, however from the incoming class of 2008 to that of 2009 the 25th percentile, 75th percentile, and median didn't budge. and their median gpa went from a 3.67 to a 3.61. of course applications this year are outstripping last year's so it's probably more possible for cornell to raise it's lsat median if it wanted. i'm just not convinced that they really care to partly because i don't buy that cornell feels like it has to raise its median in order to keep its rank. over much of the past decade, texas, vandy, ucla, gtown, and usc have all raised their lsat medians a lot more than cornell has yet cornell still outranks them. it's probably been easy for cornell to keep its place b/c it feeds primarily into the country's #1 legal market.

[Hopefullawstudent]

LOL@statement addressing Cornell.

cornell had an 8% increase in last year's cycle over the cycle before that, however from the incoming class of 2008 to that of 2009 the 25th percentile, 75th percentile, and median didn't budge. and their median gpa went from a 3.67 to a 3.61. of course applications this year are outstripping last year's so it's probably more possible for cornell to raise it's lsat median if it wanted. i'm just not convinced that they really care to partly because i don't buy that cornell feels like it has to raise its median in order to keep its rank. over much of the past decade, texas, vandy, ucla, gtown, and usc have all raised their lsat medians a lot more than cornell has yet cornell still outranks them. it's probably been easy for cornell to keep its place b/c it feeds primarily into the country's #1 legal market.

Sound points. I'd also add that Cornell's peer reputation scores are always solid, which buffers against their "lowish" LSAT distribution.

Still, I'm going to argue that this cycle is different from past cycles. Cornell will get that median up to 168, trust me. They'd practically have to try to keep it at 167 given the number of 168s they must be seeing this year.

Another point I made in the other Cornell thread, which was +1'd by a current Cornell student, is that I believe most of Cornell's students were at some point held over or waitlisted. If this is true, then it is too early to judge what Cornell is planning on doing with all of those holds on people with 168s. Also, if my thoughts are accurate, then Cornell is clearly trying to boost their numbers but for some reason (or probably a dozen or so) it's just not working out given their current strategy.

-HL

[goodolgil]

I think the main reason Cornell's medians are lower than the rest of the T14 is the location. If they were located in a major city I'm sure it would be like a 170. Michigan probably has the same problem, but since they were for a very long time considered a T3 law school they're more able to keep their median a little higher (but still not as high as a school like GULC, despite UMich being widely regarded as the better school).

The location issue is probably especially harmful with URMs, most of whom (presumably) come from cities. Thus, their standards for URMs are probably somewhat lower than other T14s, which could also drag their medians down. The increase in applications may somewhat mitigate these issues, but it's not going to erase them, and I assume Cornell's LSAT median won't rise by any more than a point.

[Hopefullawstudent]

I think the main reason Cornell's medians are lower than the rest of the T14 is the location. If they were located in a major city I'm sure it would be like a 170. Michigan probably has the same problem, but since they were for a very long time considered a T3 law school they're more able to keep their median a little higher (but still not as high as a school like GULC, despite UMich being widely regarded as the better school).

The location issue is probably especially harmful with URMs, most of whom (presumably) come from cities. Thus, their standards for URMs are probably somewhat lower than other T14s, which could also drag their medians down. The increase in applications may somewhat mitigate these issues, but it's not going to erase them, and I assume Cornell's LSAT median won't rise by any more than a point.

The location issue with Cornell always strikes me as funny as location issues are rarely discussed candidly when talking about UChicago. As a graduate of the University of Chicago I can state with absolute confidence that Hyde Park is the worst place I will have ever lived in during my lifetime. Don't get me wrong, I love my Alma Mater, but I just find it hilarious to see so many naive 0L's applying to UChicago, when the Dean of the law school himself says on the school's website: "This may not be the place for you." Hyde Park is NOT in Chicago, despite what the maps say, and the campus is, in a poetic sense, depressingly beautiful (you'd need to attend to know what I mean by that). Cornell on the other hand, is serene and while rural, it is at least a peaceful place to study. Hyde Park? Peaceful at times perhaps, but don't wander one street too far....

-HL