What Prep Tests Did The Logic Games Rules’ Format Begin Changing?

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bizzybone1313

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What Prep Tests Did The Logic Games Rules’ Format Begin Changing?

Postby bizzybone1313 » Thu Jan 03, 2019 6:57 am

I have begun noticing the obnoxious nature of some of the more recent PT’s logic games rules. I have read before that the rules began changing. Does anyone have a link to threads where this is discussed or a link to articles online that talk about this? Thanks.

I didn’t expect to have as much trouble as I have with the change in the wording and format of the LG rules.

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Re: What Prep Tests Did The Logic Games Rules’ Format Begin Changing?

Postby Kaziende » Thu Jan 03, 2019 3:16 pm

What's different about the format? I just compared PT52 LG to the Nov 2018 PT, and they look pretty much the same to me.

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Re: What Prep Tests Did The Logic Games Rules’ Format Begin Changing?

Postby QContinuum » Thu Jan 03, 2019 3:48 pm

I think there has been some evolution in the types/formats of games over the years, but it's not large enough to worry about for prep purposes. All of the old PrepTests (from June 1991 on) are still very valuable and entirely worth practicing on. There are plenty of games from the 1990s and 2000s that are indistinguishable from commonly seen modern games, and it's always possible LSAC reverts to using some of the older-style games as well.

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Re: What Prep Tests Did The Logic Games Rules’ Format Begin Changing?

Postby bizzybone1313 » Thu Jan 03, 2019 4:17 pm

You guys aren’t understanding what I am saying or maybe I didn’t express myself well enough. Before the 50’s or somewhere roundabout, the rules of the games NOT the games themselves were worded different. We all know what the “rules” are: for example, if X is included, then Y is included.

This has been discussed before on this forum multiple times. Somewhere around the 50ish PT or 45 PT mark there was a noticeable change in the wording of the rules. I don’t think there was a change in wording from the rules from the 55ish range to NOW. But prior to 55ish or even 45ish or 50ish, there was a difference in the wording of the rules in LG’s.

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Re: What Prep Tests Did The Logic Games Rules’ Format Begin Changing?

Postby LSATWiz.com » Thu Jan 03, 2019 4:40 pm

bizzybone1313 wrote:You guys aren’t understanding what I am saying or maybe I didn’t express myself well enough. Before the 50’s or somewhere roundabout, the rules of the games NOT the games themselves were worded different. We all know what the “rules” are: for example, if X is included, then Y is included.

This has been discussed before on this forum multiple times. Somewhere around the 50ish PT or 45 PT mark there was a noticeable change in the wording of the rules. I don’t think there was a change in wording from the rules from the 55ish range to NOW. But prior to 55ish or even 45ish or 50ish, there was a difference in the wording of the rules in LG’s.

The rules haven't changed, but LSAC does filter through question writers every few years to prevent the test from becoming too predictable. On pre-PT 50, there would be more games with >5 rules. There has not been a game with more than 5 in a very long time. It should not make a difference to how you study. Focus on mastering each type of game individually before worrying about combo games.

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Re: What Prep Tests Did The Logic Games Rules’ Format Begin Changing?

Postby bizzybone1313 » Thu Jan 03, 2019 5:58 pm

No. You and others still aren’t understanding what I am saying. The WORDING of the rules changed. They were made to be more convoluted or awkward and different from the past. I am not talking about the number of rules or the game types in general. I am simply talking about the overall wording of the rules.

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Re: What Prep Tests Did The Logic Games Rules’ Format Begin Changing?

Postby Jeffort » Thu Jan 03, 2019 7:13 pm

bizzybone1313 wrote:No. You and others still aren’t understanding what I am saying. The WORDING of the rules changed. They were made to be more convoluted or awkward and different from the past. I am not talking about the number of rules or the game types in general. I am simply talking about the overall wording of the rules.


Can you please give/cite some specific examples to illustrate your claim?

I haven't noticed any significant or substantial changes in the way LG rules are worded, especially not that would qualify them as being convoluted. It doesn't appear that anybody else that has responded in this thread has noticed anything of that sort either.

The only thing I can think of off hand that you might be talking about are unusual rule types that occasionally appear in some games in which properly understanding the logical meaning and impact of the rule is a key factor and a big part of the challenge of the game itself. These, however wouldn't be the same thing as taking a regular run of the mill rule type and wording/phrasing it in a significantly different and/or convoluted way, but instead are different/less common and sometimes more complex types of rules/relationships than the typical bread and butter commonly repeated types of rules you see all the time.

Are these partly what you're talking about? Some of the higher difficulty games from the more recent tests after PT# 50 are more difficult in part because they include a non-conventional rule type that hadn't appeared much or at all in previous tests, thus requiring the test taker to properly interpret the meaning and derive the logical impact of the rule partly by carefully reading, thinking through and properly processing the specific wording used. There have been more instances of those in the recent tests than the older ones, but they are by no means unique to the more recent tests.

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Re: What Prep Tests Did The Logic Games Rules’ Format Begin Changing?

Postby LSATWiz.com » Thu Jan 03, 2019 7:24 pm

Bro, your post history suggests you've been prepping for the test for like 6 years. Just buckle down for 6 months consistently, stop complaining and crack a 170.

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Re: What Prep Tests Did The Logic Games Rules’ Format Begin Changing?

Postby QContinuum » Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:40 pm

UBETutoring wrote:Bro, your post history suggests you've been prepping for the test for like 6 years. Just buckle down for 6 months consistently, stop complaining and crack a 170.

Woah - 6 years?!

In any case, if there's actually some kind of subtle difference in new vs. old LGs that no one in this thread has noticed, as OP keeps asserting, that difference is likely not worth noticing for prep purposes. The TLS community includes some of the highest scorers in the country - folks who've done well without noticing whatever it is OP's driving at. The LSAT - LG included - is a test of skill - it isn't a test of who can memorize the highest number of obscure shortcuts or tricks for divining hidden patterns or whatnot behind the problems.

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Re: What Prep Tests Did The Logic Games Rules’ Format Begin Changing?

Postby LSATWiz.com » Sat Jan 05, 2019 5:56 pm

QContinuum wrote:
UBETutoring wrote:Bro, your post history suggests you've been prepping for the test for like 6 years. Just buckle down for 6 months consistently, stop complaining and crack a 170.

Woah - 6 years?!

In any case, if there's actually some kind of subtle difference in new vs. old LGs that no one in this thread has noticed, as OP keeps asserting, that difference is likely not worth noticing for prep purposes. The TLS community includes some of the highest scorers in the country - folks who've done well without noticing whatever it is OP's driving at. The LSAT - LG included - is a test of skill - it isn't a test of who can memorize the highest number of obscure shortcuts or tricks for divining hidden patterns or whatnot behind the problems.

I'd just like to supplement this by stating that the rules always mean exactly what their literal definition says they mean. If a rule says A cannot be before B, that means that they must come either at the same time or B must precede A. If it's a sequencing game with the caveat "one at a time", it means that B comes before A. This is just 1 example, but at the end of the day all the games test is your ability to apply law to fact. Although you may think LSAC is being dumb in writing dumbly worded rules, the reality is that the American legal system is chalk full of dumbly worded rules. It's still your responsibility to apply them to fact.

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Re: What Prep Tests Did The Logic Games Rules’ Format Begin Changing?

Postby bizzybone1313 » Tue Jan 08, 2019 9:09 pm

These subtle differences have been discussed in “prep for Nov. 2016 LSAT” type threads before. I simply can’t realistically find the threads where this has been discussed.

There’s always endless people like “UBETutoring”, who are basically failed lawyers who seek to make a quick buck off of desperate, unsuspecting LSAT studying students. This site and online has an endless supply of people such as yourself that are so called “experts” of this exam.

If you really and truly scored a 170+, which basically means you have a T-14 degree. Why aren’t you practicing law? To ask the question is to answer it. You simply couldn’t hack it or you seek to make an easy buck rather than writing motions all day long.

You aren’t a very good tutor if you are unable to answer the question I am asking. What I am asking HAS been discussed multiple times before on this forum. I dominate earlier games with exceptional times, but the new subtle changes to the wording of some the rules on newer games is throwing me off and ruining my clocked times.

I haven’t been prepping for this exam for “6 years”. I took some time away to take care of some other personal responsibilities prior to applying and ultimately matriculating law school.

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Re: What Prep Tests Did The Logic Games Rules’ Format Begin Changing?

Postby nixy » Tue Jan 08, 2019 9:35 pm

bizzybone1313 wrote:If you really and truly scored a 170+, which basically means you have a T-14 degree. Why aren’t you practicing law? To ask the question is to answer it. You simply couldn’t hack it or you seek to make an easy buck rather than writing motions all day long.

You aren’t a very good tutor if you are unable to answer the question I am asking. What I am asking HAS been discussed multiple times before on this forum. I dominate earlier games with exceptional times, but the new subtle changes to the wording of some the rules on newer games is throwing me off and ruining my clocked times.

Okay, the first comment above is pretty crappy and irrelevant.

Second, you're the only person who seems to think there's some change that's different from what others have acknowledged, but even if there is a change (that's more significant than LSAC trying to write questions differently to keep the test fresh), what difference does that make? Presumably the more recent tests are more representative than tests from 10+ years ago. (And I'm not sure you can call subtle changes "new" if they're from the mid-late 2000s.)



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