The Official December 2017 Study Group Forum

[twiix]

I'm taking a blueprint course this fall and I can't fathom why people who haven't taken classes would try discouraging others not too?. 1.) many classes offer a free class which I HIGHLY suggest attending! I attended a sample class at Manhattan prep and didn't like it off the bat.- it had close to 30 students, the professor had a thick accent,etc. I sampled several and blueprint professors seemed really engaging and I took so much from that one practice course, so I highly suggest it before paying for one. Another thing is looking on yelp, many past students rate professors and in blueprint you can actually see who the professor is and who teaches on what days.** Not sure if test Masters or any other prep course does this. 2) YES they are very expensive But if law school is an investment you want to make then I HIGHLY think it's worth it. Everyone learns differently, and having homework and sitting in an actual classroom is how I learn best. Nothing in this world is guaranteed so if your paying this much money, make it worth it and do all the work. Also the classes are like 4 hrs long with blueprint 2x a week, that's 8 guaranteed hrs of LSAT studying in addition to homework 10+ hrs and studying. I plan to get in a good 20 hrs of total prep per week. I'm sorry but it doesn't matter what anybody says in reference to lsat scores, no one can tell you what you'll get or a likely prediction. ONLY actual PT's can whether your self studying or studying in a classroom. I can't tell if you yourself has even taken one? The class at blueprint, you take an actual practice exam every week and it mimics real test conditions so if your pt'ing around 165, then your score will mostly be that. Another thing about score guarantees is that companies like blueprint offer a retake or 100% refund if your score doesn't improve by a minimum of points (not sure if it's 10/12 pts)

Anyways my point is, do your research, attend a free class if possible, talk to others who've actually taken a class. Find what works best for you. COmpanies like 7sage are great if you can study by yourself and follow it. But I'm like 99% sure that's if in class preps and 7sage were the same price, people would go for in class prep study. A lot of people also work and 7sage is online so even more convenient. I work 8-4 & my blueprint class is from 6-10 Wednesdays and 2-6 saturdays, sun- test day 2-6. it's not the best but it works! Many people love 7sage and I cannot blame them, but I've seen and know many people who have taken a prep course who not only loved it but saw massive improvements.. so once again just depends on you, your time, money, etc'

What courses are people taking? Considering doing a Powerscore one since I liked the Bibles.

Save the money and sign up for 7sage Ultimate+. Also buy The LSAT Trainer, Manhattan LR Book, and Logic Game Bible. That's all you will need.

Ill go ahead and throw another 7Sage Ultimate+ recommendation out there. In person classes are dangerous for a few reasons. 1) Your instructor may suck. Yes he or she may also not suck, but if you do get a lazy/bad instructor well then you've just spent $1500 on basically nothing 2) They are crazy expensive and results are not guaranteed. Some guarantee a points gain, but remember, a 1 point gain is still a gain. 3) You may not fully understand an important concept, but because you're in a classroom setting, the course just will continue on and you will be behind. 4) They can mislead. I had a friend take a course and her instructor told her she could expect to get in the mid to high 160s come test day. She got a 152. Not sure how the instructor came to his conclusion but my friend was devastated.

With the 7Sage course I was able to go at my own pace, yet still follow a schedule that the course itself sets out for you. This was especially helpful when it came to question types that I was bad at. For example, I just could not grasp PSA questions at first, but because my course was online I was able to slow down and really hammer down the important aspects of the question type. Because of this, PSA questions are some of the easiest for me today.

Im sure there are plenty of people out there that have found success using in person courses and it is important to find what works best for you, but for me and many other TLSers the risks I listed out above just did not justify the potential reward.

The biggest two reasons I have against courses are 1. The price. You hit on this yourself. and 2. The fact that the course adheres to a strict schedule. News flash, not everyone learns material the same way. Some people might think formal logic is a joke (people from STEM, Philosophy majors, etc.), whereas someone with an education or music background might think of it as a foreign language. Do you think a predetermined schedule accounts for people comprehending subjects in various amounts of time? Because it doesn't.

I am by no means bashing in person courses. They hold people accountable, which is what a lot of people need. Unfortunately, if you aren't accountable, you likely won't get the most out of the homework/assignments, so you're not optimizing your studying either way, which further leads to me believing that 3k+ for a course is a sink of money. Anyway, to each their own. I like how you went and sat in on free courses to get a feel for how the instructors taught their material, solid due diligence.

[MercW07]

I'm taking a blueprint course this fall and I can't fathom why people who haven't taken classes would try discouraging others not too?. 1.) many classes offer a free class which I HIGHLY suggest attending! I attended a sample class at Manhattan prep and didn't like it off the bat.- it had close to 30 students, the professor had a thick accent,etc. I sampled several and blueprint professors seemed really engaging and I took so much from that one practice course, so I highly suggest it before paying for one. Another thing is looking on yelp, many past students rate professors and in blueprint you can actually see who the professor is and who teaches on what days.** Not sure if test Masters or any other prep course does this. 2) YES they are very expensive But if law school is an investment you want to make then I HIGHLY think it's worth it. Everyone learns differently, and having homework and sitting in an actual classroom is how I learn best. Nothing in this world is guaranteed so if your paying this much money, make it worth it and do all the work. Also the classes are like 4 hrs long with blueprint 2x a week, that's 8 guaranteed hrs of LSAT studying in addition to homework 10+ hrs and studying. I plan to get in a good 20 hrs of total prep per week. I'm sorry but it doesn't matter what anybody says in reference to lsat scores, no one can tell you what you'll get or a likely prediction. ONLY actual PT's can whether your self studying or studying in a classroom. I can't tell if you yourself has even taken one? The class at blueprint, you take an actual practice exam every week and it mimics real test conditions so if your pt'ing around 165, then your score will mostly be that. Another thing about score guarantees is that companies like blueprint offer a retake or 100% refund if your score doesn't improve by a minimum of points (not sure if it's 10/12 pts)

Anyways my point is, do your research, attend a free class if possible, talk to others who've actually taken a class. Find what works best for you. COmpanies like 7sage are great if you can study by yourself and follow it. But I'm like 99% sure that's if in class preps and 7sage were the same price, people would go for in class prep study. A lot of people also work and 7sage is online so even more convenient. I work 8-4 & my blueprint class is from 6-10 Wednesdays and 2-6 saturdays, sun- test day 2-6. it's not the best but it works! Many people love 7sage and I cannot blame them, but I've seen and know many people who have taken a prep course who not only loved it but saw massive improvements.. so once again just depends on you, your time, money, etc'

What courses are people taking? Considering doing a Powerscore one since I liked the Bibles.

Save the money and sign up for 7sage Ultimate+. Also buy The LSAT Trainer, Manhattan LR Book, and Logic Game Bible. That's all you will need.

Ill go ahead and throw another 7Sage Ultimate+ recommendation out there. In person classes are dangerous for a few reasons. 1) Your instructor may suck. Yes he or she may also not suck, but if you do get a lazy/bad instructor well then you've just spent $1500 on basically nothing 2) They are crazy expensive and results are not guaranteed. Some guarantee a points gain, but remember, a 1 point gain is still a gain. 3) You may not fully understand an important concept, but because you're in a classroom setting, the course just will continue on and you will be behind. 4) They can mislead. I had a friend take a course and her instructor told her she could expect to get in the mid to high 160s come test day. She got a 152. Not sure how the instructor came to his conclusion but my friend was devastated.

With the 7Sage course I was able to go at my own pace, yet still follow a schedule that the course itself sets out for you. This was especially helpful when it came to question types that I was bad at. For example, I just could not grasp PSA questions at first, but because my course was online I was able to slow down and really hammer down the important aspects of the question type. Because of this, PSA questions are some of the easiest for me today.

Im sure there are plenty of people out there that have found success using in person courses and it is important to find what works best for you, but for me and many other TLSers the risks I listed out above just did not justify the potential reward.

Yeah Im with twiix on this one. Ive done plenty of research on the topic and basically what it came down to for me was that it simply is not worth the money. If the in person courses could guarantee 15+ point improvement (I have a hard time believing any LSAT prep company would ever make that promise) then maybe Id think about it, but Ive talked to a few people that saw little to no improvement and still got stuck with a fat bill at the end of the class. As far as taking PTs goes, the 10 Actual books, a timer, and 7Sages free LSAT Analytics tool are really all that is needed. No reason to drive to some testing center every Sunday to take a test that you can buy on Amazon for cheap. I PT twice a week (soon to be 3 times a week) with no difficulties at all. Also, like twiix mentioned, everyone learns at a different pace and classes just have no way to account for that. If you're the one in the class that is able to connect with everything the instructor is teaching then great you'll see some major improvement. But if you're the one the falls even a little bit behind you're pretty much out of luck. With that being said, and like I previously mentioned, everyone learns this stuff different so if you absolutely need to take an in person class then that is fine, Im not making any judgements. Id recommend at least trying to self study first, but if that does not work then yeah sure go for the class. Im just suggesting that its a lot of money to spend especially when many have found even greater success for far less money.

[doglawin]

hi everyone!!!

So currently I am using the PS bibles and 7Sage to prep. Both are great so far, but I don't think either will help me maximize my potential with RC, any suggestions?

Also, I have the most basic package for 7Sage- the LSAT started; have any of you purchased the more expensive ones after starting with the LSAT starter, and did you feel like there was a good enough difference in what was included to justify the price difference?

[MercW07]

Had a "holy shit I can't do this anymore, Im gonna quit studying and get my MBA" moment yesterday after a less than stellar PT. But after a few beers and a nights rest Im back today ready to BR and make some improvements!


This test can feel like torture at times.

[saffles]

Oh god

Checking in. Didn't know this was here. Just made a TLS account but I've been lurking for a month now lol

Gonna register next weekend Just decided to go to law school this year. Have never taken the LSAT before but I've been studying since the beginning of August and not gonna stop until I'm sitting in for the official test in December! When I took my diagnostic I got a 146 (ouch...) but that's because I didn't know anything. I feel more confident now that I've been studying (The LSAT Trainer is excellent!).

Good luck to everyone!

[twiix]

Oh god

Checking in. Didn't know this was here. Just made a TLS account but I've been lurking for a month now lol

Gonna register next weekend Just decided to go to law school this year. Have never taken the LSAT before but I've been studying since the beginning of August and not gonna stop until I'm sitting in for the official test in December! When I took my diagnostic I got a 146 (ouch...) but that's because I didn't know anything. I feel more confident now that I've been studying (The LSAT Trainer is excellent!).

Good luck to everyone!

at the end of the day a diagnostic doesn't really mean anything. Unless you are a natural and do extremely well, then good for he/she. but if you do very poorly it just shows you havent been introduced to the style of content in the test, nothing more. there is low correlation between cold diagnostic, and potential ceiling score outside of saying it might mean you have to work harder to get up there. but even if you diag'd at 160, you still will cover the entire basic curriculum as someone who started at 140, so it's a wash.

Stay positive and keep grinding, you got this.

[saffles]

Oh god

Checking in. Didn't know this was here. Just made a TLS account but I've been lurking for a month now lol

Gonna register next weekend Just decided to go to law school this year. Have never taken the LSAT before but I've been studying since the beginning of August and not gonna stop until I'm sitting in for the official test in December! When I took my diagnostic I got a 146 (ouch...) but that's because I didn't know anything. I feel more confident now that I've been studying (The LSAT Trainer is excellent!).

Good luck to everyone!

at the end of the day a diagnostic doesn't really mean anything. Unless you are a natural and do extremely well, then good for he/she. but if you do very poorly it just shows you havent been introduced to the style of content in the test, nothing more. there is low correlation between cold diagnostic, and potential ceiling score outside of saying it might mean you have to work harder to get up there. but even if you diag'd at 160, you still will cover the entire basic curriculum as someone who started at 140, so it's a wash.

Stay positive and keep grinding, you got this.

Thank you! Really lovin' the TLS community so far. I feel even more motivated just by actively participating in this forum haha ^^

[greatspirit]

I'm taking a blueprint course this fall and I can't fathom why people who haven't taken classes would try discouraging others not too?. 1.) many classes offer a free class which I HIGHLY suggest attending! I attended a sample class at Manhattan prep and didn't like it off the bat.- it had close to 30 students, the professor had a thick accent,etc. I sampled several and blueprint professors seemed really engaging and I took so much from that one practice course, so I highly suggest it before paying for one. Another thing is looking on yelp, many past students rate professors and in blueprint you can actually see who the professor is and who teaches on what days.** Not sure if test Masters or any other prep course does this. 2) YES they are very expensive But if law school is an investment you want to make then I HIGHLY think it's worth it. Everyone learns differently, and having homework and sitting in an actual classroom is how I learn best. Nothing in this world is guaranteed so if your paying this much money, make it worth it and do all the work. Also the classes are like 4 hrs long with blueprint 2x a week, that's 8 guaranteed hrs of LSAT studying in addition to homework 10+ hrs and studying. I plan to get in a good 20 hrs of total prep per week. I'm sorry but it doesn't matter what anybody says in reference to lsat scores, no one can tell you what you'll get or a likely prediction. ONLY actual PT's can whether your self studying or studying in a classroom. I can't tell if you yourself has even taken one? The class at blueprint, you take an actual practice exam every week and it mimics real test conditions so if your pt'ing around 165, then your score will mostly be that. Another thing about score guarantees is that companies like blueprint offer a retake or 100% refund if your score doesn't improve by a minimum of points (not sure if it's 10/12 pts)

Anyways my point is, do your research, attend a free class if possible, talk to others who've actually taken a class. Find what works best for you. COmpanies like 7sage are great if you can study by yourself and follow it. But I'm like 99% sure that's if in class preps and 7sage were the same price, people would go for in class prep study. A lot of people also work and 7sage is online so even more convenient. I work 8-4 & my blueprint class is from 6-10 Wednesdays and 2-6 saturdays, sun- test day 2-6. it's not the best but it works! Many people love 7sage and I cannot blame them, but I've seen and know many people who have taken a prep course who not only loved it but saw massive improvements.. so once again just depends on you, your time, money, etc'

What courses are people taking? Considering doing a Powerscore one since I liked the Bibles.

Save the money and sign up for 7sage Ultimate+. Also buy The LSAT Trainer, Manhattan LR Book, and Logic Game Bible. That's all you will need.

Ill go ahead and throw another 7Sage Ultimate+ recommendation out there. In person classes are dangerous for a few reasons. 1) Your instructor may suck. Yes he or she may also not suck, but if you do get a lazy/bad instructor well then you've just spent $1500 on basically nothing 2) They are crazy expensive and results are not guaranteed. Some guarantee a points gain, but remember, a 1 point gain is still a gain. 3) You may not fully understand an important concept, but because you're in a classroom setting, the course just will continue on and you will be behind. 4) They can mislead. I had a friend take a course and her instructor told her she could expect to get in the mid to high 160s come test day. She got a 152. Not sure how the instructor came to his conclusion but my friend was devastated.

With the 7Sage course I was able to go at my own pace, yet still follow a schedule that the course itself sets out for you. This was especially helpful when it came to question types that I was bad at. For example, I just could not grasp PSA questions at first, but because my course was online I was able to slow down and really hammer down the important aspects of the question type. Because of this, PSA questions are some of the easiest for me today.

Im sure there are plenty of people out there that have found success using in person courses and it is important to find what works best for you, but for me and many other TLSers the risks I listed out above just did not justify the potential reward.

Thank you very, very much for this! I'll look into Blueprint.

[Facelessgod]

Checking in. 166 on the June 2017 LSAT, went -9 on RC.. Was registered for September but decided to withdraw because I wasn't consistently PTing in the 170s, mainly due to RC. Originally had planned on applying this cycle but am going to take an extra year off to improve my LSAT. Going to be kicking my prep into overdrive and I plan on doing a "fool-proof" approach to RC sections so I can get that section down. If I'm PTing in the 170s I'll sit for December, otherwise I may postpone until February/June.

[JessicaMG]

Hi all -- loooong time lurker, first time poster/test taker here!

Checking in to better hold myself accountable as I prepare for the December test. Some history: I initially intended to sit for June.. then settled for September.. and now I'm being realistic with myself and am committed to December (work/study balance is tough, man). I'm nearing the end of the 7Sage Ultimate+ Core Curriculum (which I can not hype enough) and will probably start full, timed preps test in a week or so. I've only done a few of those so far, which makes me feel like I'm lagging behind, so that's my next step!

Good luck, everyone!!

[wildcat1906]

Hey guys,

I'll be taking the test in December and studying on everything.

I'd like some advice regarding LG, if possible.

I've been practicing games nearly everyday, following Pithy Pike's guide, and I think I am seeing good improvement.

I try to practice my first attempt timed, then see explanations on 7Sage. Then I give myself some time off the game just so it'll be fresh enough for me to give it another go. I end up doing each game 3-5 times, by the 2nd or 3rd I usually get a perfect score under the preferred time that is given on the 7Sage site for every game.

The thing is, is that for some games I can't seem to fully comprehend every rule during timed condition, resulting me in messing up and needing to go back to the rules which I will end up wasting valuable time.

My question is, should I be drilling games untimed at first?
or maybe continue doing what I do? timed, see explanations to fully understand game, then redo as many times as it takes?

I have done a total of 35 games thus far.

Thanks!

[abujabal]

My question is, should I be drilling games untimed at first?

Yes

[twiix]

Hi all -- loooong time lurker, first time poster/test taker here!

Checking in to better hold myself accountable as I prepare for the December test. Some history: I initially intended to sit for June.. then settled for September.. and now I'm being realistic with myself and am committed to December (work/study balance is tough, man). I'm nearing the end of the 7Sage Ultimate+ Core Curriculum (which I can not hype enough) and will probably start full, timed preps test in a week or so. I've only done a few of those so far, which makes me feel like I'm lagging behind, so that's my next step!

Good luck, everyone!!

dont rush into PT's. You'll thank me later. Check out this webinar and follow it (you should have access since you're U+).

https://7sage.com/webinar/post-core-cur ... trategies/

Rushing into PT's can be a real inhibitor, so learn from my mistakes and numerous others.

[Ayo_mide]

Checking in because I already know I'll be bombing the September test.

[twiix]

Checking in because I already know I'll be bombing the September test.

fuck it. Add me to the chain. I've been signed up for awhile since I got the free admission from the october digital pilot LSAT, but I don't want to be here.

[strynt]

Checking in. Took the TestMasters course for Sept, but didn't break upper 160s so I pulled the trigger and rescheduled for Dec. Sigh.

[wildcat1906]

My question is, should I be drilling games untimed at first?

Yes

Thanks! Are you taking the test in December too?

[abujabal]

My question is, should I be drilling games untimed at first?

Yes

Thanks! Are you taking the test in December too?

Hopefully not! This Saturday at the least

[wildcat1906]

My question is, should I be drilling games untimed at first?

Yes

Thanks! Are you taking the test in December too?

Hopefully not! This Saturday at the least

Good luck with it!

[PrezRand]

For those that do BR, how long do you wait until the review process?

[MercW07]

My BR scores are getting sooooo good. My actual PT scores on the other hand...eh

[wildcat1906]

Another question:

when you guys blind review LR for missed questions after grading them, for example on necessary assumptions or flaw questions, do you try to figure out what the flaw is before looking at the correct answer or do you just see it right away?

I am currently reviewing some necessary assumption questions I had a hard time on previous PTs, and I don't remember the correct answers for them; so before looking at the correct answer, I just try to figure out the gap beforehand.

Do you guys think this is a waste of time and I should just review by seeing the correct answers right away?

[twiix]

Another question:

when you guys blind review LR for missed questions after grading them, for example on necessary assumptions or flaw questions, do you try to figure out what the flaw is before looking at the correct answer or do you just see it right away?

I am currently reviewing some necessary assumption questions I had a hard time on previous PTs, and I don't remember the correct answers for them; so before looking at the correct answer, I just try to figure out the gap beforehand.

Do you guys think this is a waste of time and I should just review by seeing the correct answers right away?

you should 100% try to figure it out before looking at the answers. it teaches muscle memory (so to speak) and it facilitates seeing patterns in the test, which leads to faster answers and accuracy when you recognize that almost every question is a "stamp" or mold of a single common variation .

[Experiment626]

For those that do BR, how long do you wait until the review process?

I usually do it the next day unless I feel like I have the brain power after a long break. But who wants to go through a PT twice in one day?

[polaroidpictcha]

Checking in! I am registered for Sept n Dec...but think I am going to withdraw for sept...