The Official September 2017 Study Group Forum

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PearsonSpecterLitt

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Re: The Official September 2017 Study Group

Post by PearsonSpecterLitt » Sat Aug 19, 2017 6:48 am

Took PT 70 on 8/18; scored a 167 on -4 LG, -3 RC, -3 LR, -5 LR.

Silly question but where can one find questions organized by question type/difficulty? I really need to get these MBT and flaw question types out of the way. The account for -5/6 on each test!!

Also how do people approach Method AP questions? There were some particularly hard ones on the test and I haven't really adopted a method for it yet.

littlewing67

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Re: The Official September 2017 Study Group

Post by littlewing67 » Sat Aug 19, 2017 11:22 am

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Last edited by littlewing67 on Fri Sep 08, 2017 1:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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HesusChrist

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Re: The Official September 2017 Study Group

Post by HesusChrist » Sat Aug 19, 2017 2:06 pm

PearsonSpecterLitt wrote:Took PT 70 on 8/18; scored a 167 on -4 LG, -3 RC, -3 LR, -5 LR.

Silly question but where can one find questions organized by question type/difficulty? I really need to get these MBT and flaw question types out of the way. The account for -5/6 on each test!!

Also how do people approach Method AP questions? There were some particularly hard ones on the test and I haven't really adopted a method for it yet.
Flaw and Method AP questions are similar. The key is to make sure that the answers accurately describe the argument. E.g. if the AC states that "the author appeals to a general principle" then the argument must clearly cite some principle. You should not have to do any 'work' or bring in outside info for Flaw and Method questions. If you trying to make an AC fit, it is probably wrong.

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AvatarMeelo

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Re: The Official September 2017 Study Group

Post by AvatarMeelo » Sat Aug 19, 2017 2:15 pm

CottonHarvest wrote:
clueless801 wrote:Necessary Assumption questions are going to be the death of my score.
Make sure you are using the negation technique and drill, drill, drill. This is probably the question type where I have noticed the most patterned/similar answers. You can really get a feel for the right answers and they all seem to be in just a few styles.
Yup, I've been drilling this type a lot! I can always get down to two answers, but ultimately pick the wrong one. Thankfully (I think) it's getting better. I drill in sets of 26 with increasing difficulty and I've gotten less wrong each set so I'm hoping that's signaling improvement. I'm in the middle of a PT right now so we'll see how I did with the NA on those.

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GnarMarBinx

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Re: The Official September 2017 Study Group

Post by GnarMarBinx » Sat Aug 19, 2017 2:58 pm

Mikey wrote:PT 70

171

LR: -2 and -3
RC: -5
LG: -0

Honestly thought the last LR section was fucking hard as hell, thought I did so much worse. good news is, this is my highest PT score :)
I just wrote PT 70 and I thought the second LR was hard, too. I actually doubled my incorrect answers (LR1 was -4 and LR2 was -8...) I wasn't sure if I was just really fatigued or if it was actually a hard section. I flew through the first 10ish questions in under 10 mins and then just hit a wall.

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Barry grandpapy

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Re: The Official September 2017 Study Group

Post by Barry grandpapy » Sat Aug 19, 2017 11:26 pm

How many margaritas until my cold goes away?

Barry grandpapy

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Re: The Official September 2017 Study Group

Post by Barry grandpapy » Sun Aug 20, 2017 12:38 pm

Is there a consensus on the typical +/- range people get on the actual test vs their PT average? Would +/- 3 sound about right?

Csupo

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Re: The Official September 2017 Study Group

Post by Csupo » Sun Aug 20, 2017 12:52 pm

Gluteus wrote:
Csupo wrote:Err, does anyone have tips for someone with a reaaallly huuuuge gap between their actual score and BR score. Took PT 50 today (my 2nd ever PT), and scored an absolutely dismal 154. The breakdown was -5 RC, -8 LR1, -14 LG, -7 LR2. For BR my score was a 170, with the breakdown -1 RC, -4 LR1, -1 LG, and -4 LR. I think I absolutely panicked during LG and, as you can see, completely bombed the section. I also think my timing was completely off during LR as I managed to completely miss bubbling answers for 3 questions on LR1 and 2 questions on LR 2, for want of enough time.

Help please!

EDIT: To clarify, I'm actually sitting in for the Dec. test, just posted here because it's more active. 8)
Looking at the PT50 conversion chart, your raw score for the PT was 66 and for the blind review it was 90.

Your biggest problem is obviously LG. It is relatively easy to get perfect or near perfect scores on LG un-timed after establishing a basic understanding of how each game works. The problem is doing so under timed conditions. You probably should do targeted drilling of LG by game types until you know how to set up every possible game and know how to make the common inferences quickly and effortlessly. You may want to look in to the fool proof method from 7Sage.

Getting your LG down to -2 timed would alone make your 154 a 161. Which is close to half of the gap.

For LR, you should understand every question type thoroughly and have a method of attack for each. You didn't provide much information about your LR strategy or difficulties so it's hard to provide anything specific. Generally, most people on TLS advise a stem first approach as it will allow you to read the stimulus in a manner specific to the question type. After having an understanding of each question type and having a method for each, it comes down to drilling drilling drilling x1000 and review review review x1000. The more you practice the quicker you'll be able to pick up on the argument structure and the easier you'll be able to eliminate trap answers.

You may also want to work on strategic skipping (to come back to later). For example, if there is one type of LR question that takes a significant amount of time relative to other questions, e.g. parallel, it may make sense to do that type of question last. While drilling keep a detailed log of what questions you are getting write/wrong, what takes too long, etc. This will not only help you know what to drill but will also help to develop a test day strategy that focuses on your strengths.
sabraph wrote:
Csupo wrote:Err, does anyone have tips for someone with a reaaallly huuuuge gap between their actual score and BR score. Took PT 50 today (my 2nd ever PT), and scored an absolutely dismal 154. The breakdown was -5 RC, -8 LR1, -14 LG, -7 LR2. For BR my score was a 170, with the breakdown -1 RC, -4 LR1, -1 LG, and -4 LR. I think I absolutely panicked during LG and, as you can see, completely bombed the section. I also think my timing was completely off during LR as I managed to completely miss bubbling answers for 3 questions on LR1 and 2 questions on LR 2, for want of enough time.

Help please!

EDIT: To clarify, I'm actually sitting in for the Dec. test, just posted here because it's more active. 8)
I've found it helpful to drill individual sections before moving on to full PTs or you could alternate days of individual sections and PT days. You definitely have time before the December test. For me at least, I can use the 20 or so seconds between sections to reset my brain, so PTs help with stamina, but not nerves on individual sections. Drilling multiple LG sections in a row made them more familiar and less nerve wracking. Drilling sections should also help with LR timing and bubbling errors (I tend to bubble at the end of a page/game but whatever works for you!)

Go easy on yourself if it's only your 2nd PT. You're in a good spot with that BR you know the material, you just need to practice timing. Best of luck :)
Hey thanks for the help guys! I'm going to try integrating individual timed sections for LR. I've also switched to doing games via sections as well (I used to only drill one game at time, take a break, do another game, break, etc.) I plan on using the LR sections from PTs 1-35 to drill with. I invariably will have seen several (many?) of these questions already, so I'm wondering if you guys think they will still be useful to just get timing right?

Gluteus, I've actually been foolproofing the games using 7sage's method. I initially started doing them by PT (starting from 1 to 35), and managed to get to PT 10. But I've recently switched to doing them via game type. Hopefully this'll make it easier for me to spot and drill the common inferences for each game type.

For my LR strategy, I do try to attack each question based on the specific strategies for each question type. I've read the LSAT Trainer, Manhattan book, and PowerScore LR Bible. But before I took PT 50 it had been two weeks since I drilled LR questions, so I may have just not gotten enough practice. I also think that, during test conditions, I may have a tendency to panic and forget or forego the specific strategy to attack each question type, since I just want to answer the questions in time. There are also quite a few question types so I may just need more practice to keep them all clear and distinct in my head.

Thanks again for both of your guys' help!

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creed

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Re: The Official September 2017 Study Group

Post by creed » Sun Aug 20, 2017 1:49 pm

Barry grandpapy wrote:Is there a consensus on the typical +/- range people get on the actual test vs their PT average? Would +/- 3 sound about right?
would also like to know the answer to this

my anecdotal take based on folks I know/folks on TLS is that +/- 3 will probably get you about 90-95% of cases. But I wonder whether or not PT'ing in the mid-high 170's skews the answer... seems more likely that the range is like +1/-3,-4 in that scenario; If your PT average in the final month leading up to the test is a 176, I don't think a 179 and a 173 are equally as likely to occur. But I may be way off, this is just my impression from the fact that I feel like I know a decent number of people PT'ing in mid-170's who got a low 170 rather than people PT'ing in mid-170's who got a high 170.

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sev

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Re: The Official September 2017 Study Group

Post by sev » Sun Aug 20, 2017 2:43 pm

Barry grandpapy wrote:Is there a consensus on the typical +/- range people get on the actual test vs their PT average? Would +/- 3 sound about right?
The LSAC superprep book says that the test is designed to have a 2.7 point standard error, so that's probably right if you discount any skewing effects of test anxiety.

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creed

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Re: The Official September 2017 Study Group

Post by creed » Sun Aug 20, 2017 5:00 pm

PT 46

Score: 173

RC: -2
LR: -2
LR: -2
LG: -0

Every time I take a -9 curve test I am reminded how badly I want the September test to not be a -9.

RC: Boggling fourth passage. Missed one I shouldn't have.

LR: Meh. The formal logic questions felt harder than usual.

LG: Glad, but I don't feel like I've run into a really tough game in a few PT"s so I hope I'm not gaining false confidence here.

Overall: Lower score than I would've hoped, but still a score I'm happy with.

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Platopus

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Re: The Official September 2017 Study Group

Post by Platopus » Sun Aug 20, 2017 9:56 pm

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Platopus

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Re: The Official September 2017 Study Group

Post by Platopus » Sun Aug 20, 2017 9:58 pm

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BOCKTAGON

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Re: The Official September 2017 Study Group

Post by BOCKTAGON » Sun Aug 20, 2017 11:27 pm

First time poster here. I love reading this thread but I must say I feel like a complete idiot. I have been studying for the exam for the past few weeks and I am having a rough time. I am currently using the LSAT trainer which seems pretty good but in the first part of the schedule it tells you to take a diagnostic exam and after the first section which happened to be logical reasoning on this particular exam, I found myself guessing more or less during the games which seemed pointless to continue taking the exam if I am completely guessing. It's very frustrating. How long did it take some of you until you actually began to understand how to answer these questions? Also, I found that I didn't have nearly enough time to answer all of the logical reasoning questions.

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sodomojo

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Re: The Official September 2017 Study Group

Post by sodomojo » Sun Aug 20, 2017 11:37 pm

How many (if any) PTs is everyone saving in the event of retake? Old or new PTs?

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presidentspivey

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Re: The Official September 2017 Study Group

Post by presidentspivey » Mon Aug 21, 2017 12:16 am

Question for the thread.

I'm looking to take the final step on LG. I'm remarkably consistent, getting -2 almost every time. My mistakes seem to be more or less random, occurring on game types of all stripes. I guess I'm not sure what I should be doing about this. It tends to be stuff I catch easily and roll my eyes at in BR. Should I be drilling to increase speed? I never finish all the questions with more than 30 seconds or a minute to spare. Drilling easy questions over and over again to eliminate careless errors? Any advice appreciated.

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creed

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Re: The Official September 2017 Study Group

Post by creed » Mon Aug 21, 2017 12:34 am

presidentspivey wrote:Question for the thread.

I'm looking to take the final step on LG. I'm remarkably consistent, getting -2 almost every time. My mistakes seem to be more or less random, occurring on game types of all stripes. I guess I'm not sure what I should be doing about this. It tends to be stuff I catch easily and roll my eyes at in BR. Should I be drilling to increase speed? I never finish all the questions with more than 30 seconds or a minute to spare. Drilling easy questions over and over again to eliminate careless errors? Any advice appreciated.
How did you study for LG up to now?

(There's a 90-95% chance regardless of your answer that drilling for speed and elimination of careless errors is the way to go.)

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Impressionist

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Re: The Official September 2017 Study Group

Post by Impressionist » Mon Aug 21, 2017 9:27 am

sodomojo wrote:How many (if any) PTs is everyone saving in the event of retake? Old or new PTs?
None. Going all in on Sept. If that fails then i still have older tests I've forgotten for some PTs before Dec. At that point most of my practice would probably be focused on weak areas rather than full PTs anyways.

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littlelibertine

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Re: The Official September 2017 Study Group

Post by littlelibertine » Mon Aug 21, 2017 10:12 am

169 on PT 69 yesterday, FML

I cannot seem to get the damn LG done under time

Haburo

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Re: The Official September 2017 Study Group

Post by Haburo » Mon Aug 21, 2017 5:05 pm

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Rupert Pupkin

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Re: The Official September 2017 Study Group

Post by Rupert Pupkin » Mon Aug 21, 2017 5:26 pm

Haburo wrote:I'm terrified!

I might reschedule for December, but tomorrow is the deadline. I feel really underprepared.

I heard somewhere that some law schools take an average of all LSAT scores and some just consider the highest/most recent score?

I am an international applicant so the information I have access to is quite muddled. Could anybody offer clarity on this issue for me please?
They dont typically average. Pretty much the highest score is the one they look at. If you feel Totally unprepared then no need to rush.. just postpone, but if you just are nervous than focus and do what you gotta do. Take a step back and just truly evaluate your progress and how much you think you can reasonably make in ~1month time

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Haburo

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Re: The Official September 2017 Study Group

Post by Haburo » Mon Aug 21, 2017 5:34 pm

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Barry grandpapy

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Re: The Official September 2017 Study Group

Post by Barry grandpapy » Mon Aug 21, 2017 6:12 pm

I'm never eating cold pizza before a PT again

Mikey

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Re: The Official September 2017 Study Group

Post by Mikey » Mon Aug 21, 2017 6:21 pm

Haburo wrote:I'm terrified!

I might reschedule for December, but tomorrow is the deadline. I feel really underprepared.

I heard somewhere that some law schools take an average of all LSAT scores and some just consider the highest/most recent score?

I am an international applicant so the information I have access to is quite muddled. Could anybody offer clarity on this issue for me please?
most schools just care about your highest.

yale cares about multiple scores tho

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sabraph

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Re: The Official September 2017 Study Group

Post by sabraph » Mon Aug 21, 2017 6:41 pm

BOCKTAGON wrote:First time poster here. I love reading this thread but I must say I feel like a complete idiot. I have been studying for the exam for the past few weeks and I am having a rough time. I am currently using the LSAT trainer which seems pretty good but in the first part of the schedule it tells you to take a diagnostic exam and after the first section which happened to be logical reasoning on this particular exam, I found myself guessing more or less during the games which seemed pointless to continue taking the exam if I am completely guessing. It's very frustrating. How long did it take some of you until you actually began to understand how to answer these questions? Also, I found that I didn't have nearly enough time to answer all of the logical reasoning questions.
You were right to stop taking the exam just by guessing that's a waste of the PT. I would definitely say going forward don't be afraid to stray from the Trainer's advice/timeline if it doesn't work for you. The trick with LG is that anyone can do them given enough time, I found that ordering games pretty naturally to me but had to work out through 7sage videos and the Bibles what the most efficient way of completing the games was. I also checked out a copy of Fox's LG guide and it is super helpful for me, it sorts the games by difficulty instead of type and focuses on making inferences by connecting rules, which has helped me massively in improving my score and making it consistent.

I don't have much advice for helping with LR timing, but hopefully someone else will.

Best of luck! Hang in there.

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