Northwestern Law School Dean Daniel B. Rodriguez and his claim of Diversity

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Northwestern Law School Dean Daniel B. Rodriguez and his claim of Diversity

Postby Bulla » Fri Jul 14, 2017 3:37 pm

I was reading about this report to ABA by few of the top law schools' deans, especially Dean Daniel Rodriguez and to me this is just pure evil to say one thing and do another. They speak about diversity yet they just admit they don't take students with a mid range LSAT because of their fear to drop in rank with the US World News.

There are many and better ways other than a standardized test to determine whether a law school believes an applicant can succeed in law school and pass the bar. That is why most law schools consider a range of factors, including academic ability (undergraduate grades, rigor of the undergraduate program,graduate studies), work experience, volunteer or public service, life experience,leadership, challenges overcome, career goals,writing skills,personal motivation, and letters of recommendation.


https://www.americanbar.org/content/dam ... eckdam.pdf

I do however agree with this but how will you find out if this is true before you admit the student ? Unless it is called experimenting with students' lives.

The easiest way to enforce Standard 501’s requirement that we only admit capable students is to measure how those students we admit perform in the program and on the bar exam.


Neither the current or proposed Standard 503 protects or assists prospective law students. The current and proposed Standard 503 place sharp limits on the development of wise and innovative JD admissions policies. The proposal takes the Council and legal education even further out of line with the norms of other professions and with the broader practice of higher education admissions.It is inconsistent with the Council’s own increasing focus in the Standards on content and outcome measures rather than inputs.“Experimentation Benefits Us All”


Harming Diversity, Skewing Admissions
The requirement of a standardized admissions test negatively impacts efforts to diversify the profession.The many law schools attentive to rankings by U.S.News routinely wait list or deny admission to students who the school believes can succeed in the educational program and pass the bar exam. In fact, many of these students’ admission test scores are–in predictive terms–indistinguishable from applicants who are admitted.


http://northwestern.lawschoolnumbers.com/stats/1617

You just received your answer, Rank is what they care for the most.
---

Lets summarize this topic conversations:

1. Dean Rodriguez speaks about the importance of diversity. However action speaks louder than words.
2. Dean Rodriguez seeks top applicants just like Yale, Stanford, and Harvard and wonders why they aren't applying to law schools.
3. Dean Rodriguez receives his answer but stopped quite short of answering it

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/changing ... -rodriguez

If I read this correctly, Dean Rodriguez is proposing alternative curriculum offerings and degrees. Certainly that will help some law professors and deans keep their jobs. However, nothing in this article addresses the underlying issues that have resulted in fewer qualified applicants for JD programs and an ever-decreasing number of "JD required" positions available for those that do graduate that offer a reasonable ROI for an ever-increasing cost of the degree.

Over the past two decades, law schools, like much of academia, turned into expensive degree mills funded by a student loan bubble that should have exploded years ago but for the artificial protections granted to educational institutions under the bankruptcy laws. Salaries of law professors, along with tuition, have increased substantially beyond the CPI or any other reasonable baseline measure. Meanwhile, the traditional role of the "junior associate" in law firms has been made nearly obsolete by advances in legal technology and business processes. While there has, for many decades, been a double hump of average salary ranges of new lawyers (i.e., a large group ranging in the current equivalent of $35k - $70k working at small law firms and for the government, and a smaller second group ranging from $120k-$160k working for large firms), following the recession the bottom of the tier rapidly expanded with the increasing ranks of professional document review attorneys paid at the same hourly rates paid to "contract attorneys" 20 years ago. At the same time, the cost of law school has increased something like 300-400%. And let's not forget the role of the ABA in this: requiring x% of the faculty to be full-time on tenure track, maintaining library square footage and hard copy book requirements, and other "status quo" demands that ignore the digital world. This is NOT sustainable!!!

Just over 20 years ago, law schools started using email. In August 2007, a handful of law students came to class with the first version of the iPhone. We can now transfer vast amounts information instantaneously to anyone, anywhere on this planet. While are drowning in data, we have software that can allow one attorney do the job of 100 in a fraction of the time and expense. Providing alternative degrees and non-JD courses to keep deans and tenured law professors employed will not change this path.

We need to have law schools that can affordably educate intelligent, qualified men and women in the law, and train them to become functioning, licensed attorneys who can provide the legal services that we need in the real world. I urge you to focus on coming up with some realistic solutions for that problem.


Mr. Mandel simply misses the point, and by a mile.


4. Northwestern law school feels confidence in continue to raise tuition despite low employment rate. Expect a JD to go as up as 70k to 80k per year in the future. You will see bottom tier law schools following top tier law schools in term of tuition increase because guess what ? They setup a great example in the legal academia.

The following tuition rates apply to the 2017-18 academic year and are expected to increase in subsequent years. The Law School prices tuition based on the degree pursued rather than the length of enrollment. Students who graduate early are still responsible for the full tuition amount. Generally, tuition is billed on a semester or quarterly basis.

http://www.law.northwestern.edu/admissi ... d/tuition/
http://www.newsweek.com/pritzker-donati ... ool-386276

According to NU's website JD tuition for 2017-2018 is going to be $61,784. Seems like a steep increase, especially with Pritzker gift and the commitment to make law school more affordable


As long as we have DOE offering endless loans to help students access to higher education without accountability, there will be higher education institutions that abuse the system. It is called free money. A JD should not cost a quarter of a million. Everyone takes the same bar exam, the only difference is prestige and employment rate from top tier law schools. That shouldn't be the free ticket to rising tuition.

Thanks To The Recession, Even T14 Law Schools Had To Beg Firms To Hire Their Graduates
http://abovethelaw.com/2017/06/thanks-t ... graduates/
Last edited by Bulla on Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:17 pm, edited 11 times in total.

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Re: Northwestern Law School Dean Daniel B. Rodriguez and his claim of Diversity

Postby stego » Fri Jul 14, 2017 3:48 pm

Deans are playing the game by the rules currently established. Seems a bit weird to make this a call-out of the NU dean.

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Re: Northwestern Law School Dean Daniel B. Rodriguez and his claim of Diversity

Postby Bulla » Fri Jul 14, 2017 3:57 pm

stego wrote:Deans are playing the game by the rules currently established. Seems a bit weird to make this a call-out of the NU dean.


Well their memo letter is in the topic for reference.

It is not weird to call out NU dean but he is been a vocal supporter for diversity however, behind the curtain we know the reality, rank is what they care about and the number of applicants who apply in order to show competition. All these applicants that were wait listed and denied later in the NU 2016-2017 cycle. I just feel bad about it and we shouldn't support this practice because they just admitted it in their memo viewtopic.php?f=7&t=274332

If we make a stand that those in the 155 - 162 lsat range won't apply to t14 schools. They will be left with 163 and up, you will see the actual reality in term of the school's offer, acceptance rate, and number of applicants.
Last edited by Bulla on Fri Jul 14, 2017 4:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Northwestern Law School Dean Daniel B. Rodriguez and his claim of Diversity

Postby lucretius_ » Fri Jul 14, 2017 4:06 pm

Bulla wrote:If we make a stand that those in the 155 - 162 lsat range won't apply to t14 schools. They will be left with 163 and up, you will see the actual reality in term of the school's offer, acceptance rate, and number of applicants.


What does this even mean? How again are we going to take a stand? And what is the position we should be taking?

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Re: Northwestern Law School Dean Daniel B. Rodriguez and his claim of Diversity

Postby stego » Fri Jul 14, 2017 4:11 pm

It stands to reason deans don't want to be punished (i.e., with a drop in the rankings) for doing something that (other things equal) they likely consider a good thing (admitting a more diverse class).

When they say they reject students whose scores are predictively equivalent, how do we know they don't mean passing over a 167 to take a student with a 168 or something? There may be some difference I would think between say 155-162 LSAT takers and say 170+. That's a pretty big discrepancy.

I was above both medians at NU and didn't get in. I'm not mad at them but I'm also not very diverse.

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Re: Northwestern Law School Dean Daniel B. Rodriguez and his claim of Diversity

Postby itsmako » Fri Jul 14, 2017 4:17 pm

Bulla wrote:
stego wrote:Deans are playing the game by the rules currently established. Seems a bit weird to make this a call-out of the NU dean.


Well their memo letter is in the topic for reference.

It is not weird to call out NU dean but he is been a vocal supporter about diversity however behind the curtain we know the reality, rank is what they care about and the number of applicants who apply in order to show competition. All these applicants that were wait listed and denied later in the NU 2016-2017 cycle. I just feel bad about it and we shouldn't support this practice because they just admitted it in their memo http://top-law-schools.com/forums/viewt ... 7&t=274332

If we make a stand that those in the 155 - 162 lsat range won't apply to t14 schools. They will be left with 163 and up, you will see the actual reality in term of the school's offer, acceptance rate, and number of applicants.


With such a strong opinion on the topic you should have filed a comment to the ABA regarding the 503 Standard. Like the previous poster, it doesn't make sense to call out Dean Rodriguez when all other schools play the same game. NU in particular interviews all candidates and takes prior work experience into serious consideration, which both can make up for a lower LSAT score to achieve a more diverse class. If NU started falling in ranking, Dean Rodriguez would lose his job. He is a vocal supporter of increasing diversity in the profession, but he wouldn't be very effective if he lost his current position.

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Re: Northwestern Law School Dean Daniel B. Rodriguez and his claim of Diversity

Postby Bulla » Fri Jul 14, 2017 4:23 pm

stego wrote:It stands to reason deans don't want to be punished (i.e., with a drop in the rankings) for doing something that (other things equal) they likely consider a good thing (admitting a more diverse class).

When they say they reject students whose scores are predictively equivalent, how do we know they don't mean passing over a 167 to take a student with a 168 or something? There may be some difference I would think between say 155-162 LSAT takers and say 170+. That's a pretty big discrepancy.

I was above both medians at NU and didn't get in. I'm not mad at them but I'm also not very diverse.


Sorry to hear about not being admitted at NU. Their issue is not just with diversity but increase tuition. Students shouldn't graduate with a quarter of a million in debts to be lawyers. A law school doesn't require all the equipment that may be a medical school would need.

You want to help diversity
1. Accept them
2. Teach them
3. Lower Tuition

itsmako wrote:
Bulla wrote:
stego wrote:Deans are playing the game by the rules currently established. Seems a bit weird to make this a call-out of the NU dean.


Well their memo letter is in the topic for reference.

It is not weird to call out NU dean but he is been a vocal supporter about diversity however behind the curtain we know the reality, rank is what they care about and the number of applicants who apply in order to show competition. All these applicants that were wait listed and denied later in the NU 2016-2017 cycle. I just feel bad about it and we shouldn't support this practice because they just admitted it in their memo viewtopic.php?f=7&t=274332

If we make a stand that those in the 155 - 162 lsat range won't apply to t14 schools. They will be left with 163 and up, you will see the actual reality in term of the school's offer, acceptance rate, and number of applicants.


With such a strong opinion on the topic you should have filed a comment to the ABA regarding the 503 Standard. Like the previous poster, it doesn't make sense to call out Dean Rodriguez when all other schools play the same game. NU in particular interviews all candidates and takes prior work experience into serious consideration, which both can make up for a lower LSAT score to achieve a more diverse class. If NU started falling in ranking, Dean Rodriguez would lose his job. He is a vocal supporter of increasing diversity in the profession, but he wouldn't be very effective if he lost his current position.


I believe everyone is free to call out a person or an organization as long as he or she provides good basis for a discussion. They called on ABA to change their standards. So why can't we call on them when it comes to their actual actions vs what they advocate for.

May be that is why Harvard started to accept GRE rather than LSAT. Action speaks louder than words.

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Re: Northwestern Law School Dean Daniel B. Rodriguez and his claim of Diversity

Postby itsmako » Fri Jul 14, 2017 4:40 pm

Bulla wrote:
stego wrote:It stands to reason deans don't want to be punished (i.e., with a drop in the rankings) for doing something that (other things equal) they likely consider a good thing (admitting a more diverse class).

When they say they reject students whose scores are predictively equivalent, how do we know they don't mean passing over a 167 to take a student with a 168 or something? There may be some difference I would think between say 155-162 LSAT takers and say 170+. That's a pretty big discrepancy.

I was above both medians at NU and didn't get in. I'm not mad at them but I'm also not very diverse.


Sorry to hear about not being admitted at NU. Their issue is not just with diversity but increase tuition. Students shouldn't graduate with a quarter of a million in debts to be lawyers. A law school doesn't require all the equipment that may be a medical school would need.

You want to help diversity
1. Accept them
2. Teach them
3. Lower Tuition

itsmako wrote:
Bulla wrote:
stego wrote:Deans are playing the game by the rules currently established. Seems a bit weird to make this a call-out of the NU dean.


Well their memo letter is in the topic for reference.

It is not weird to call out NU dean but he is been a vocal supporter about diversity however behind the curtain we know the reality, rank is what they care about and the number of applicants who apply in order to show competition. All these applicants that were wait listed and denied later in the NU 2016-2017 cycle. I just feel bad about it and we shouldn't support this practice because they just admitted it in their memo http://top-law-schools.com/forums/viewt ... 7&t=274332

If we make a stand that those in the 155 - 162 lsat range won't apply to t14 schools. They will be left with 163 and up, you will see the actual reality in term of the school's offer, acceptance rate, and number of applicants.


With such a strong opinion on the topic you should have filed a comment to the ABA regarding the 503 Standard. Like the previous poster, it doesn't make sense to call out Dean Rodriguez when all other schools play the same game. NU in particular interviews all candidates and takes prior work experience into serious consideration, which both can make up for a lower LSAT score to achieve a more diverse class. If NU started falling in ranking, Dean Rodriguez would lose his job. He is a vocal supporter of increasing diversity in the profession, but he wouldn't be very effective if he lost his current position.


I believe everyone is free to call out a person or an organization as long as he or she provides good basis for a discussion. They called on ABA to change their standards. So why can't we call on them when it comes to their actual actions vs what they advocate for.

May be that is why Harvard started to accept GRE rather than LSAT. Action speaks louder than words.


NU is considering this as well: http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ ... story.html

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Re: Northwestern Law School Dean Daniel B. Rodriguez and his claim of Diversity

Postby Bulla » Fri Jul 14, 2017 4:44 pm

itsmako wrote:
Bulla wrote:
stego wrote:It stands to reason deans don't want to be punished (i.e., with a drop in the rankings) for doing something that (other things equal) they likely consider a good thing (admitting a more diverse class).

When they say they reject students whose scores are predictively equivalent, how do we know they don't mean passing over a 167 to take a student with a 168 or something? There may be some difference I would think between say 155-162 LSAT takers and say 170+. That's a pretty big discrepancy.

I was above both medians at NU and didn't get in. I'm not mad at them but I'm also not very diverse.


Sorry to hear about not being admitted at NU. Their issue is not just with diversity but increase tuition. Students shouldn't graduate with a quarter of a million in debts to be lawyers. A law school doesn't require all the equipment that may be a medical school would need.

You want to help diversity
1. Accept them
2. Teach them
3. Lower Tuition

itsmako wrote:
Bulla wrote:
stego wrote:Deans are playing the game by the rules currently established. Seems a bit weird to make this a call-out of the NU dean.


Well their memo letter is in the topic for reference.

It is not weird to call out NU dean but he is been a vocal supporter about diversity however behind the curtain we know the reality, rank is what they care about and the number of applicants who apply in order to show competition. All these applicants that were wait listed and denied later in the NU 2016-2017 cycle. I just feel bad about it and we shouldn't support this practice because they just admitted it in their memo viewtopic.php?f=7&t=274332

If we make a stand that those in the 155 - 162 lsat range won't apply to t14 schools. They will be left with 163 and up, you will see the actual reality in term of the school's offer, acceptance rate, and number of applicants.


With such a strong opinion on the topic you should have filed a comment to the ABA regarding the 503 Standard. Like the previous poster, it doesn't make sense to call out Dean Rodriguez when all other schools play the same game. NU in particular interviews all candidates and takes prior work experience into serious consideration, which both can make up for a lower LSAT score to achieve a more diverse class. If NU started falling in ranking, Dean Rodriguez would lose his job. He is a vocal supporter of increasing diversity in the profession, but he wouldn't be very effective if he lost his current position.


I believe everyone is free to call out a person or an organization as long as he or she provides good basis for a discussion. They called on ABA to change their standards. So why can't we call on them when it comes to their actual actions vs what they advocate for.

May be that is why Harvard started to accept GRE rather than LSAT. Action speaks louder than words.


NU is considering this as well: http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ ... story.html


Yes after Harvard, it will be like a domino effect. Still holding applicants for few month, then wait list them then deny them after putting their hopes up should be condemned and called out. They just admitted in their letter that they do it for ranking purpose.

The requirement of a standardized admissions test negatively impacts efforts to diversify the profession.The many law schools attentive to rankings by U.S.News routinely wait list or deny admission to students who the school believes can succeed in the educational program and pass the bar exam. In fact, many of these students’ admission test scores are–in predictive terms–indistinguishable from applicants who are admitted.


The so called 'Chat with the Dean' that they did this year, was nothing more than marketing to increase application numbers.

I would say the same to Yale Law School

Please know that your application will be valued as much as anyone else’s. I hope you will apply. You have very little to lose, and a lot to gain.


https://law.yale.edu/admissions/profile ... -not-apply

Should be rewritten, please apply in order for us to increase the number of applicants to show competition. So if we decide not to apply to T14 law schools if we are in the 155 - 162 lsat range, we will see how T14 law schools will react in term of their offers, acceptance rate, and may be that should serve as a wake up call.

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Re: Northwestern Law School Dean Daniel B. Rodriguez and his claim of Diversity

Postby cavalier1138 » Fri Jul 14, 2017 4:59 pm

There are better ways to deal with rejection...

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Re: Northwestern Law School Dean Daniel B. Rodriguez and his claim of Diversity

Postby Bulla » Fri Jul 14, 2017 5:07 pm

cavalier1138 wrote:There are better ways to deal with rejection...


Please don't twist the conversation. I am in law school. I am simply speaking for the future applicants and a law school practice I would condemn. All these applicants in the wait list topic having their high hopes up, should know what T14 really care and look for.
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Re: Northwestern Law School Dean Daniel B. Rodriguez and his claim of Diversity

Postby stego » Fri Jul 14, 2017 5:10 pm

Dean: LSAC should incentivize us to do Y instead of incentivizing us to do X and disincentivizing us to do Y

Dean: *does X*

OP: Dean shouldn't do X!

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Re: Northwestern Law School Dean Daniel B. Rodriguez and his claim of Diversity

Postby Bulla » Fri Jul 14, 2017 5:16 pm

The right term Stifling Innovation is fake news.

If the Section determines to continue to require a standardized test for admissions, there are still flaws in the proposed changes to Standard 503.The proposed Standard is exceedingly opaque, and rather than encouraging innovation, stifles it.


The term Innovation works better for medical or business schools.

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Re: Northwestern Law School Dean Daniel B. Rodriguez and his claim of Diversity

Postby stego » Fri Jul 14, 2017 5:18 pm

Law schools get criticized for admitting too many students and flooding the job market with all those grads 3 years later. If they don't admit students, they complain.

They waitlist so many people to ensure they get enough students but not too many.

If I could change one easy thing I would probably take measuring a school's yield out of the equation. Because it doesn't matter ultimately to the students who actually attend how many others wanted to and couldn't. I recognize this could have unintended consequences though if it changes the way schools use the waitlist.

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Re: Northwestern Law School Dean Daniel B. Rodriguez and his claim of Diversity

Postby Bulla » Fri Jul 14, 2017 5:27 pm

It is the bottom tier law schools which admit too many students. Top tier law schools works differently in their approach.

They waitlist so many people to ensure they get enough students but not too many.


This argument doesn't become valid anymore after their assertion in their letter to ABA that they waitlist applicants and later deny them for the purpose of ranking. They just sugar coat it. If you wait list someone and you want him or her, you accept them.

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Re: Northwestern Law School Dean Daniel B. Rodriguez and his claim of Diversity

Postby lucretius_ » Fri Jul 14, 2017 5:40 pm

Bulla wrote:It is the bottom tier law schools which admit too many students. Top tier law schools works differently in their approach.

They waitlist so many people to ensure they get enough students but not too many.


This argument doesn't become valid anymore after their assertion in their letter to ABA that they waitlist applicants and later deny them for the purpose of ranking. They just sugar coat it. If you wait list someone and you want him or her, you accept them.


How would waitlisting and denying applicants help their rankings? I can see getting more people to apply will help their % acceptance rate. I also get how not accepting applicants they believe will not attend increases their yield percentage. What am I missing?

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Re: Northwestern Law School Dean Daniel B. Rodriguez and his claim of Diversity

Postby stego » Fri Jul 14, 2017 5:48 pm

Bulla wrote:It is the bottom tier law schools which admit too many students. Top tier law schools works differently in their approach.

They waitlist so many people to ensure they get enough students but not too many.


This argument doesn't become valid anymore after their assertion in their letter to ABA that they waitlist applicants and later deny them for the purpose of ranking. They just sugar coat it. If you wait list someone and you want him or her, you accept them.

GULC is a top school that has been criticized on TLS for having such a large class size

they didn't say that. they said many waitlisted students are about as good as many admitted students. but whether they really want the waitlisted students depends on how many admitted students choose to attend.

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Re: Northwestern Law School Dean Daniel B. Rodriguez and his claim of Diversity

Postby Platopus » Fri Jul 14, 2017 6:35 pm

Seriously, what is the point of this thread? NU is perhaps the most lenient T-13 with regard to GPA's and places the most weight on WE. Both of these factors contribute to diversity by attracting students with valuable life and professional experiences.

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Re: Northwestern Law School Dean Daniel B. Rodriguez and his claim of Diversity

Postby cavalier1138 » Fri Jul 14, 2017 6:48 pm

Bulla wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:There are better ways to deal with rejection...


Please don't twist the conversation. I am in law school. I am simply speaking for the future applicants and a law school practice I would condemn. All these applicants in the wait list topic having their high hopes up, should know what T14 really care and look for.


But. I'm guessing you're not a law student at... wait for it... Northwestern.

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Re: Northwestern Law School Dean Daniel B. Rodriguez and his claim of Diversity

Postby gwillygecko » Fri Jul 14, 2017 7:11 pm

The requirement of a standardized admissions test negatively impacts efforts to diversify the profession.The many law schools attentive to rankings by U.S.News routinely wait list or deny admission to students who the school believes can succeed in the educational program and pass the bar exam. In fact, many of these students’ admission test scores are–in predictive terms–indistinguishable from applicants who are admitted..


How is this statement by the dean of nu on the state of admissions at schools "attentive to usnwr rankings" an admission that NU does what you're claiming?

In your link the dean even says:

We disagree that the requirement for a law school admission test “is important in
enforcing the requirement” that law schools should only admit students they
believe are capable of succeeding in law school and passing the bar.


that you more or less agree with, right?

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Re: Northwestern Law School Dean Daniel B. Rodriguez and his claim of Diversity

Postby Bulla » Fri Jul 14, 2017 9:14 pm

gwillygecko wrote:
The requirement of a standardized admissions test negatively impacts efforts to diversify the profession.The many law schools attentive to rankings by U.S.News routinely wait list or deny admission to students who the school believes can succeed in the educational program and pass the bar exam. In fact, many of these students’ admission test scores are–in predictive terms–indistinguishable from applicants who are admitted..


How is this statement by the dean of nu on the state of admissions at schools "attentive to usnwr rankings" an admission that NU does what you're claiming?

In your link the dean even says:

We disagree that the requirement for a law school admission test “is important in
enforcing the requirement” that law schools should only admit students they
believe are capable of succeeding in law school and passing the bar.


that you more or less agree with, right?


That wasn't the message behind this topic. It doesn't make sense if we argue that NU don't accept applicants capable of passing the bar exam.

The issue is their admission that they wait list applicants then deny them because of US world News Rank. Yet when you get interviewed or when you speak to the dean they claim they look at your application overall and pay close attention to your work history but all that goes into the recycle bin if your lsat isn't in the 165+ and then compare LSN data and it is substantiated by these facts.

The unethical practice practice to waitlist hundreds of applicants. I can understand 10 - 20 applicants wait listed but more than that is too excessive, and they hold them for few month then later deny them. Then they claim they pay attention to diversity, reality is they don't and this is substantiated with their letter to ABA.

The requirement of a standardized admissions test negatively impacts efforts to diversify the profession.The many law schools attentive to rankings by U.S.News routinely wait list or deny admission to students who the school believes can succeed in the educational program and pass the bar exam. In fact, many of these students’ admission test scores are–in predictive terms–indistinguishable from applicants who are admitted.


If applicants took a stand of not applying to T14 if their lsat is lower than 155 then you will see the effect on the number of offers and their amounts, and the acceptance rate. They seek you out under the banner of diversity in order to boost their application number. You start seeing Yale nagging for applicants to apply to Yale when you know that they don't care about diversity if your lsat is below 169/170.

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Re: Northwestern Law School Dean Daniel B. Rodriguez and his claim of Diversity

Postby yyyuppp » Fri Jul 14, 2017 9:29 pm

wait listing applicants doesn't increase the schools rankings. someone already said this, but they don't get more people to apply by having some big wait list (which there is not evidence ITT that they actually waitlist more people than other schools). I don't think Rodriguez is some super noble figure, but he also seems to have a problem with the exact same thing you do and would like to do something about it. i don't get the point of this.

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Re: Northwestern Law School Dean Daniel B. Rodriguez and his claim of Diversity

Postby Bulla » Fri Jul 14, 2017 10:01 pm

yyyuppp wrote:wait listing applicants doesn't increase the schools rankings. someone already said this, but they don't get more people to apply by having some big wait list (which there is not evidence ITT that they actually waitlist more people than other schools). I don't think Rodriguez is some super noble figure, but he also seems to have a problem with the exact same thing you do and would like to do something about it. i don't get the point of this.


If 500 applicants applied to NU. NU has to sent offers based on only 500 applicants pool. This would be different then having 4,000 applicants. This is how they show that their application pool is competitive and it helps with boosting the Rank. This is how they can show that they only accept 25% of applicants.

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Re: Northwestern Law School Dean Daniel B. Rodriguez and his claim of Diversity

Postby yyyuppp » Fri Jul 14, 2017 10:10 pm

Bulla wrote:
yyyuppp wrote:wait listing applicants doesn't increase the schools rankings. someone already said this, but they don't get more people to apply by having some big wait list (which there is not evidence ITT that they actually waitlist more people than other schools). I don't think Rodriguez is some super noble figure, but he also seems to have a problem with the exact same thing you do and would like to do something about it. i don't get the point of this.


If 500 applicants applied to NU. NU has to sent offers based on only 500 applicants pool. This would be different then having 4,000 applicants. This is how they show that their application pool is competitive and it helps with boosting the Rank. This is how they can show that they only accept 25% of applicants.


im not following what you're saying. 4000 applicants apply because its a good school. what does the waitlist have to do with that? why would more people apply cuz of their chances of getting wait listed?

i agree that schools broadcast that they are diverse and wish to attract diverse applicants, and maybe that is more lip service than reality, but to equate that with them leading people with sub 160 lsat scores scores to think they have a good chance at getting in if they are diverse is not accurate from my understanding of their marketing.

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Re: Northwestern Law School Dean Daniel B. Rodriguez and his claim of Diversity

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Fri Jul 14, 2017 10:21 pm

why would applicants with 155 and below lsat scores be applying to NU/the T14 anyway though?




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