Appealing a LSAC Misconduct notice

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WamBamThankYouMaam
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Re: Appealing a LSAC Misconduct notice

Postby WamBamThankYouMaam » Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:06 pm

I read your first post and a few of the following, but by no means have I read all of them. It sounds like your appeal will come down to whether LSAC considers an email asking to apply late as part of the application process. If they do count it as part of the application process, then you may be out of luck as LSAC states that "Intent is not an element of a finding of misconduct or irregularity."

LSAC's Rules Governing Misconduct and Irregularities state "Misconduct or Irregularity is the submission of. . . any information that is false, inconsistent, or misleading . . ."
While your email may not be false, it could be construed as inconsistent, or worse, misleading.

Link to the aforementioned rules: http://www.lsac.org/docs/default-source/jd-docs/rules-misconduct-irregularities.pdf

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rpupkin
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Re: Appealing a LSAC Misconduct notice

Postby rpupkin » Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:11 pm

WamBamThankYouMaam wrote:I read your first post and a few of the following, but by no means have I read all of them. It sounds like your appeal will come down to whether LSAC considers an email asking to apply late as part of the application process. If they do count it as part of the application process, then you may be out of luck as LSAC states that "Intent is not an element of a finding of misconduct or irregularity."

LSAC's Rules Governing Misconduct and Irregularities state "Misconduct or Irregularity is the submission of. . . any information that is false, inconsistent, or misleading . . ."
While your email may not be false, it could be construed as inconsistent, or worse, misleading.

Link to the aforementioned rules: http://www.lsac.org/docs/default-source/jd-docs/rules-misconduct-irregularities.pdf

Oh good. I was worried we weren't going to get anymore expert legal analysis from 0Ls.

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WamBamThankYouMaam
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Re: Appealing a LSAC Misconduct notice

Postby WamBamThankYouMaam » Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:14 pm

rpupkin wrote:
WamBamThankYouMaam wrote:I read your first post and a few of the following, but by no means have I read all of them. It sounds like your appeal will come down to whether LSAC considers an email asking to apply late as part of the application process. If they do count it as part of the application process, then you may be out of luck as LSAC states that "Intent is not an element of a finding of misconduct or irregularity."

LSAC's Rules Governing Misconduct and Irregularities state "Misconduct or Irregularity is the submission of. . . any information that is false, inconsistent, or misleading . . ."
While your email may not be false, it could be construed as inconsistent, or worse, misleading.

Link to the aforementioned rules: http://www.lsac.org/docs/default-source/jd-docs/rules-misconduct-irregularities.pdf

Oh good. I was worried we weren't going to get anymore expert legal analysis from 0Ls.

Wasn't insinuating that I'm an expert, simply that I can read.

patches1995
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Re: Appealing a LSAC Misconduct notice

Postby patches1995 » Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:14 pm

WamBamThankYouMaam wrote:I read your first post and a few of the following, but by no means have I read all of them. It sounds like your appeal will come down to whether LSAC considers an email asking to apply late as part of the application process. If they do count it as part of the application process, then you may be out of luck as LSAC states that "Intent is not an element of a finding of misconduct or irregularity."

LSAC's Rules Governing Misconduct and Irregularities state "Misconduct or Irregularity is the submission of. . . any information that is false, inconsistent, or misleading . . ."
While your email may not be false, it could be construed as inconsistent, or worse, misleading.

Link to the aforementioned rules: http://www.lsac.org/docs/default-source/jd-docs/rules-misconduct-irregularities.pdf


Yeah, I talked to one of the LSAC representatives and they said that they haven't really received any cases like this where the inconsistency is found in a email conversation as opposed to a formal application. It really depends on how the specific LSAC misconduct member views my case and if he/she considers my reasons enough to appeal their decision.

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WamBamThankYouMaam
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Re: Appealing a LSAC Misconduct notice

Postby WamBamThankYouMaam » Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:16 pm

patches1995 wrote:
WamBamThankYouMaam wrote:I read your first post and a few of the following, but by no means have I read all of them. It sounds like your appeal will come down to whether LSAC considers an email asking to apply late as part of the application process. If they do count it as part of the application process, then you may be out of luck as LSAC states that "Intent is not an element of a finding of misconduct or irregularity."

LSAC's Rules Governing Misconduct and Irregularities state "Misconduct or Irregularity is the submission of. . . any information that is false, inconsistent, or misleading . . ."
While your email may not be false, it could be construed as inconsistent, or worse, misleading.

Link to the aforementioned rules: http://www.lsac.org/docs/default-source/jd-docs/rules-misconduct-irregularities.pdf


Yeah, I talked to one of the LSAC representatives and they said that they haven't really received any cases like this where the inconsistency is found in a email conversation as opposed to a formal application. It really depends on how the specific LSAC misconduct member views my case and if he/she considers my reasons enough to appeal their decision.

Yeah it does seem like a weird thing to report someone for, but I hope everything goes well!

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rpupkin
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Re: Appealing a LSAC Misconduct notice

Postby rpupkin » Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:58 pm

WamBamThankYouMaam wrote:
rpupkin wrote:
WamBamThankYouMaam wrote:I read your first post and a few of the following, but by no means have I read all of them. It sounds like your appeal will come down to whether LSAC considers an email asking to apply late as part of the application process. If they do count it as part of the application process, then you may be out of luck as LSAC states that "Intent is not an element of a finding of misconduct or irregularity."

LSAC's Rules Governing Misconduct and Irregularities state "Misconduct or Irregularity is the submission of. . . any information that is false, inconsistent, or misleading . . ."
While your email may not be false, it could be construed as inconsistent, or worse, misleading.

Link to the aforementioned rules: http://www.lsac.org/docs/default-source/jd-docs/rules-misconduct-irregularities.pdf

Oh good. I was worried we weren't going to get anymore expert legal analysis from 0Ls.

Wasn't insinuating that I'm an expert, simply that I can read.

Yes, I'm sure you can read fine. But your issue spotting and analysis could use some work. You're not helping the OP.

Npret
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Re: Appealing a LSAC Misconduct notice

Postby Npret » Fri Apr 21, 2017 5:53 am

OP you haven't given us all the facts. That's fine for your anonymity but you need to tell someone the whole story.
You've had additional contact with the school and with LSAC. I'm not sure what you are doing or saying but be very, very careful.

What do you mean "appeal their decision?" I thought you were only at the investigation stage? I thought you only received a notice, has a decision been made?

If the school clinic is closed for exams, ask for an extension to reply saying you are trying to get legal advice.

We can only tell you to get expert advice so many times. It's too bad you can't get a simple low cost consultation but if this goes against you, it will affect your future applications.

Good luck.
Last edited by Npret on Fri Apr 21, 2017 6:15 am, edited 3 times in total.

Npret
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Re: Appealing a LSAC Misconduct notice

Postby Npret » Fri Apr 21, 2017 5:54 am

rpupkin wrote:
WamBamThankYouMaam wrote:
rpupkin wrote:
WamBamThankYouMaam wrote:I read your first post and a few of the following, but by no means have I read all of them. It sounds like your appeal will come down to whether LSAC considers an email asking to apply late as part of the application process. If they do count it as part of the application process, then you may be out of luck as LSAC states that "Intent is not an element of a finding of misconduct or irregularity."

LSAC's Rules Governing Misconduct and Irregularities state "Misconduct or Irregularity is the submission of. . . any information that is false, inconsistent, or misleading . . ."
While your email may not be false, it could be construed as inconsistent, or worse, misleading.

Link to the aforementioned rules: http://www.lsac.org/docs/default-source/jd-docs/rules-misconduct-irregularities.pdf

Oh good. I was worried we weren't going to get anymore expert legal analysis from 0Ls.

Wasn't insinuating that I'm an expert, simply that I can read.

Yes, I'm sure you can read fine. But your issue spotting and analysis could use some work. You're not helping the OP.

This issue of a preliminary email being part of the admission process as well as the issue of intent has already been mentioned if you could be bothered to read the thread.

cavalier1138
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Re: Appealing a LSAC Misconduct notice

Postby cavalier1138 » Fri Apr 21, 2017 5:59 am

patches1995 wrote:Thank you very much... Also, not sure how significant it is but the individual I contacted at the law school is on the LSAC misconduct committee ...


Pretty fucking significant.

0L-who-I'm-very-glad-I-will-never-attend-class-with: This is why people were recommending an attorney. The OP hadn't provided all the facts, and I'll wager that there are more details we're still not getting, due to this being a semi-public forum. Even though the OP is anonymous, providing all the information here could potentially out them. If they talk to an attorney, they're more likely (I hope) to provide more information that can help the attorney recommend a real course of action.

Npret
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Re: Appealing a LSAC Misconduct notice

Postby Npret » Fri Apr 21, 2017 6:13 am

cavalier1138 wrote:
patches1995 wrote:Thank you very much... Also, not sure how significant it is but the individual I contacted at the law school is on the LSAC misconduct committee ...


Pretty fucking significant.

0L-who-I'm-very-glad-I-will-never-attend-class-with: This is why people were recommending an attorney. The OP hadn't provided all the facts, and I'll wager that there are more details we're still not getting, due to this being a semi-public forum. Even though the OP is anonymous, providing all the information here could potentially out them. If they talk to an attorney, they're more likely (I hope) to provide more information that can help the attorney recommend a real course of action.

Likelihood that the LSAC investigators don't defer to the opinion of an actual commitee member, zero chance. (Hope I'm wrong.)

I would start expecting a hearing as the other committee members aren't likely to disagree with another member either. It could happen if you are lucky or the others think this goes too far.

Just my opinion. I hope I'm wrong but as I said I don't think a school would pursue this without a good reason. The school isn't being random here. A person who is knowledgeable about the rules and is an actual part of the system decided your email was misleading.

I guess you understand the implications for future law school acceptances and having to report this to the bar, etc. if you insist you have to go it alone, all we can do is wish you good luck.

Npret
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Re: Appealing a LSAC Misconduct notice

Postby Npret » Fri Apr 21, 2017 6:27 am

patches1995 wrote:
Pretty much the issue is that the GPA on my email is not the same as the one on my transcript (even though the converted GPA is correct). I did mess up by not explicitly stating that the GPA in the email is in the form that the law school was looking at and not what is on my transcript.

Sorry to add to the thread some more: but do you understand what you did here?

Let me spell it out for you: you said your GPA was significantly higher than your actual GPA without explaining why you calculated it or including the lower GPA. It looks like to did that because you knew the lower GPA would hurt you so you didn't disclose it. The email states a GPA higher than your transcript.

Forget about if you calculated it correctly. You sent an email that only claimed the higher GPA. Can you understand how the school finds it to be misconduct? Maybe (and I hope) LSAC won't.

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rpupkin
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Re: Appealing a LSAC Misconduct notice

Postby rpupkin » Fri Apr 21, 2017 3:33 pm

Hey OP, I wanted to say a couple of things because I know we've sidetracked your thread by beating up on 0Ls offering you advice.

First, I hope you know that those of us advising you to consult with an attorney are really trying to give you the best advice. I have several years of experience as an attorney. The reason that I'm not giving you substantive advice--the reason I'm not drafting letters for you or analyzing the LSAC rules--is that I know enough to know that there are always nuances and minefields in specialized areas of law. I don't have legal experience with LSAC, C&F Boards, or law school admissions. That's why so many of the more experienced posters in this thread are suggesting that you consult an expert.

Second, as far as the "I can't afford an attorney" thing, I just can't believe that's true. No one is suggesting that you front a $20,000 retainer or something. We're likely talking about a few hundred dollars in fees. What would you do right now if you were liable for an accident and you weren't covered by insurance? What what you do if you had an unexpected medical expense that required you to pay money out of pocket? I assume you'd ask someone--a family member or friend--for some help. I know it's embarrassing, but you're in a fairly serious predicament here. Were I you, I would treat this as the kind of life emergency that warrants asking someone for a bit of financial help.

Just my two cents. I sincerely wish you the best of luck.

patches1995
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Re: Appealing a LSAC Misconduct notice

Postby patches1995 » Fri Apr 21, 2017 4:51 pm

rpupkin wrote:Hey OP, I wanted to say a couple of things because I know we've sidetracked your thread by beating up on 0Ls offering you advice.

First, I hope you know that those of us advising you to consult with an attorney are really trying to give you the best advice. I have several years of experience as an attorney. The reason that I'm not giving you substantive advice--the reason I'm not drafting letters for you or analyzing the LSAC rules--is that I know enough to know that there are always nuances and minefields in specialized areas of law. I don't have legal experience with LSAC, C&F Boards, or law school admissions. That's why so many of the more experienced posters in this thread are suggesting that you consult an expert.

Second, as far as the "I can't afford an attorney" thing, I just can't believe that's true. No one is suggesting that you front a $20,000 retainer or something. We're likely talking about a few hundred dollars in fees. What would you do right now if you were liable for an accident and you weren't covered by insurance? What what you do if you had an unexpected medical expense that required you to pay money out of pocket? I assume you'd ask someone--a family member or friend--for some help. I know it's embarrassing, but you're in a fairly serious predicament here. Were I you, I would treat this as the kind of life emergency that warrants asking someone for a bit of financial help.

Just my two cents. I sincerely wish you the best of luck.


Thanks for the well wishes. Unfortunately though, even if I could scrape together the funds to pay an attorney, there is not enough time (only a few days remaining before I have to respond) and the lawyers I have contacted either do not deal with niche situations like mine or say they cannot work in the small time frame.




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