Appealing a LSAC Misconduct notice

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patches1995
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Appealing a LSAC Misconduct notice

Postby patches1995 » Mon Apr 17, 2017 9:14 pm

Hello,

My first post here. A few weeks ago I received a notice of misconduct from LSAC regarding some information that I emailed to a law school which they found to be inaccurate. Specifically, I emailed a law school and asked if I could apply for late registration due to some family issues. In that email, I wrote my LSAT score and GPA (I converted it using the OLSAS scoring scale). In the misconduct notice it pretty much states that the GPA I stated in the email is not consistent with my transcript(which I also provided in the same email) and has given me 20 days to respond. I honestly thought I was supposed to convert the GPA to the format that the law school in question looks at and did not intend to mislead anyone. Can anyone please advise me with what I can do next.

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UVA2B
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Re: Appealing a LSAC Misconduct notice

Postby UVA2B » Mon Apr 17, 2017 9:30 pm

Respond with the truth. Tell them that you reported an incorrect GPA based on your own calculation and that you never meant to mislead anyone. I'm a little confused though. You sent a request to extend the school's application deadline, included your LSAT and self-calculated GPA, and LSAC responded to this request directly claiming misconduct? This doesn't make a ton of sense to me, but the advice won't change. If you want to avoid C&F issues, just fully disclose what you did, why you did it, and hope your mistake wasn't egregious. This seems like a pretty minor violation (if I understand it correctly), but you just need to fully disclose what went into that miscalculation and work with LSAC and the law school to remedy the problem.

patches1995
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Re: Appealing a LSAC Misconduct notice

Postby patches1995 » Mon Apr 17, 2017 9:40 pm

What happened was that I emailed the law school and did not hear back from them until a few weeks later at which point they told me that there were inconsistencies in my email and that they reported me to LSAC. After that, LSAC contacted me with the misconduct notice. I am worried because I directly contacted the law school and told them that it was just a mistake but they said they think I'm lying/purposely trying to mislead them. I know that I have to respond to LSAC but I am worried that my explanation is not enough.

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rpupkin
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Re: Appealing a LSAC Misconduct notice

Postby rpupkin » Mon Apr 17, 2017 9:44 pm

patches1995 wrote:What happened was that I emailed the law school and did not hear back from them until a few weeks later at which point they told me that there were inconsistencies in my email and that they reported me to LSAC. After that, LSAC contacted me with the misconduct notice. I am worried because I directly contacted the law school and told them that it was just a mistake but they said they think I'm lying/purposely trying to mislead them. I know that I have to respond to LSAC but I am worried that my explanation is not enough.

Wow, that school sucks.

For future reference, though, never self-calculate anything about your academic record. Once in awhile, I see a post on TLS from a law student who wants to self-calculate their class rank. Don't do stuff like this. Only disclose stuff that's on your official transcript (or which has otherwise been officially calculated by your school).

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UVA2B
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Re: Appealing a LSAC Misconduct notice

Postby UVA2B » Mon Apr 17, 2017 9:47 pm

patches1995 wrote:What happened was that I emailed the law school and did not hear back from them until a few weeks later at which point they told me that there were inconsistencies in my email and that they reported me to LSAC. After that, LSAC contacted me with the misconduct notice. I am worried because I directly contacted the law school and told them that it was just a mistake but they said they think I'm lying/purposely trying to mislead them. I know that I have to respond to LSAC but I am worried that my explanation is not enough.


That's low brow, scam-like behavior. But rpupkin is right, you shouldn't be estimating anything, and if you do, you shouldn't be providing that estimation to anyone in the admissions process. Your best bet is still to disclose the entire situation to LSAC to avoid C&F issues down the road. It won't look great, but better to fully disclose your mistake now and avoid problems later.

patches1995
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Re: Appealing a LSAC Misconduct notice

Postby patches1995 » Mon Apr 17, 2017 9:59 pm

Yeah I definitely will not be estimating anything in the future. Do you guys know what will happen if my appeal is not accepted?

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rpupkin
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Re: Appealing a LSAC Misconduct notice

Postby rpupkin » Mon Apr 17, 2017 10:13 pm

patches1995 wrote:Yeah I definitely will not be estimating anything in the future. Do you guys know what will happen if my appeal is not accepted?

If LSAC decides that you in fact committed misconduct , I assume there will be a misconduct notice on your LSAC report, which all schools would see. You'd have to report the incident on your C&F application to your state's bar.

For what it's worth, if you've described your behavior accurately in this thread, I think--well, I certainly hope--that LSAC will not cite you for misconduct.

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UVA2B
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Re: Appealing a LSAC Misconduct notice

Postby UVA2B » Mon Apr 17, 2017 10:19 pm

rpupkin wrote:
patches1995 wrote:Yeah I definitely will not be estimating anything in the future. Do you guys know what will happen if my appeal is not accepted?

If LSAC decides that you in fact committed misconduct , I assume there will be a misconduct notice on your LSAC report, which all schools would see. You'd have to report the incident on your C&F application to your state's bar.

For what it's worth, if you've described your behavior accurately in this thread, I think--well, I certainly hope--that LSAC will not cite you for misconduct.


Yeah, LSAC is a funny animal, but I sincerely believe they would hear your side of the story and decide not to cite you because that could cripple your career before it begins. They want to reinforce their position in the admissions process at seemingly every opportunity, but if you've represented yourself honestly here, this would be pretty egregious nanny state behavior.

patches1995
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Re: Appealing a LSAC Misconduct notice

Postby patches1995 » Tue Apr 18, 2017 12:03 am

Thanks a lot for your advice

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Bulla
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Re: Appealing a LSAC Misconduct notice

Postby Bulla » Tue Apr 18, 2017 3:49 pm

This sounds like a shitty school. How would you be able to mislead admission via email when your LSAC report is generated with the right numbers? Just respond honestly to LSAC. Also your backup evidence is your filed application which was also accurate. So a number via email based on OLSAS scoring scale should not prejudice you or become a character and fitness question to the bar. This is a school that is trying to bully an applicant for whatever reason.

Were the numbers too far apart ? Your real GPA vs the OLSAS scoring scale?

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rpupkin
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Re: Appealing a LSAC Misconduct notice

Postby rpupkin » Tue Apr 18, 2017 3:52 pm

One more thought, OP: Given what's at stake here, it wouldn't be a bad idea to have a lawyer review your submission to LSAC before you send it.

patches1995
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Re: Appealing a LSAC Misconduct notice

Postby patches1995 » Tue Apr 18, 2017 8:45 pm

Bulla wrote:This sounds like a shitty school. How would you be able to mislead admission via email when your LSAC report is generated with the right numbers? Just respond honestly to LSAC. Also your backup evidence is your filed application which was also accurate. So a number via email based on OLSAS scoring scale should not prejudice you or become a character and fitness question to the bar. This is a school that is trying to bully an applicant for whatever reason.

Were the numbers too far apart ? Your real GPA vs the OLSAS scoring scale?


On my transcript it says 3.66 and on the email I had 3.79.

patches1995
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Re: Appealing a LSAC Misconduct notice

Postby patches1995 » Tue Apr 18, 2017 8:46 pm

rpupkin wrote:One more thought, OP: Given what's at stake here, it wouldn't be a bad idea to have a lawyer review your submission to LSAC before you send it.


Is it expensive to have a lawyer review it? Or do you know if there is some free legal advice I can get?

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rpupkin
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Re: Appealing a LSAC Misconduct notice

Postby rpupkin » Tue Apr 18, 2017 8:53 pm

patches1995 wrote:
rpupkin wrote:One more thought, OP: Given what's at stake here, it wouldn't be a bad idea to have a lawyer review your submission to LSAC before you send it.


Is it expensive to have a lawyer review it? Or do you know if there is some free legal advice I can get?

It'll probably cost at least a couple hundred dollars. When you consider the possible problems you'll encounter if this doesn't go well for you, a couple hundred dollars seems inexpensive. Also, I don't know what an OLSAS is, but this sounds bad:

"On my transcript it says 3.66 and on the email I had 3.79."

All the more reason to have a lawyer review your letter/explanation.

BobBoblaw
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Re: Appealing a LSAC Misconduct notice

Postby BobBoblaw » Tue Apr 18, 2017 9:38 pm

Does your transcript GPA=your LSAC calculated GPA? I can't understand why you would send the school anything other than your GPA as calculated by LSAC...

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Bulla
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Re: Appealing a LSAC Misconduct notice

Postby Bulla » Tue Apr 18, 2017 10:18 pm

patches1995 wrote:
Bulla wrote:This sounds like a shitty school. How would you be able to mislead admission via email when your LSAC report is generated with the right numbers? Just respond honestly to LSAC. Also your backup evidence is your filed application which was also accurate. So a number via email based on OLSAS scoring scale should not prejudice you or become a character and fitness question to the bar. This is a school that is trying to bully an applicant for whatever reason.

Were the numbers too far apart ? Your real GPA vs the OLSAS scoring scale?


On my transcript it says 3.66 and on the email I had 3.79.


And your transcript reflects the application you filed with that school, right ? I think that school is shitty to pull something like that. If the numbers would be too far apart, then probably it would be lack of candor. This appears to be an honest mistake.

Have a legal counsel review your response and you should be fine.

Have you applied to other law schools prior to that law school which looks like they were witch hunting you for whatever reason ? Are you a URM ? If you do put that as your evidence that you have filed other applications with other schools and never had encounter any issue and that this was an honest mistake and not an intended one, then you are solidifying your stance even more.

If your true intention was to deceive admission, you would have placed your wrong GPA in your addendum, personal statement or somewhere to intentionally show that you were trying to mislead admission but the fact it was via email. Applicants make mistakes whether typos or even get confused between a major GPA and overall GPA.

patches1995
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Re: Appealing a LSAC Misconduct notice

Postby patches1995 » Wed Apr 19, 2017 2:05 am

BobBoblaw wrote:Does your transcript GPA=your LSAC calculated GPA? I can't understand why you would send the school anything other than your GPA as calculated by LSAC...


I did not actually submit an application yet. I just emailed the law school with my LSAT score and GPA (that law school uses a different grading scale than my university so I thought I had to show the converted score) and asked if I could apply even though the deadline for admission had passed.

patches1995
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Re: Appealing a LSAC Misconduct notice

Postby patches1995 » Wed Apr 19, 2017 2:08 am

Bulla wrote:
patches1995 wrote:
Bulla wrote:This sounds like a shitty school. How would you be able to mislead admission via email when your LSAC report is generated with the right numbers? Just respond honestly to LSAC. Also your backup evidence is your filed application which was also accurate. So a number via email based on OLSAS scoring scale should not prejudice you or become a character and fitness question to the bar. This is a school that is trying to bully an applicant for whatever reason.

Were the numbers too far apart ? Your real GPA vs the OLSAS scoring scale?


On my transcript it says 3.66 and on the email I had 3.79.


And your transcript reflects the application you filed with that school, right ? I think that school is shitty to pull something like that. If the numbers would be too far apart, then probably it would be lack of candor. This appears to be an honest mistake.

Have a legal counsel review your response and you should be fine.

Have you applied to other law schools prior to that law school which looks like they were witch hunting you for whatever reason ? Are you a URM ? If you do put that as your evidence that you have filed other applications with other schools and never had encounter any issue and that this was an honest mistake and not an intended one, then you are solidifying your stance even more.

If your true intention was to deceive admission, you would have placed your wrong GPA in your addendum, personal statement or somewhere to intentionally show that you were trying to mislead admission but the fact it was via email. Applicants make mistakes whether typos or even get confused between a major GPA and overall GPA.


I have tried to explain to the law school and LSAC that I wasn't trying to deceive anyone. In the email I sent to the law school (this was not a formal application, just an email to see if I could apply after the deadline) I also attached my transcript (which contains my pre-converted GPA).

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brinicolec
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Re: Appealing a LSAC Misconduct notice

Postby brinicolec » Wed Apr 19, 2017 2:14 am

Good luck with talking to LSAC. I think folks have already covered the best way to go about this.

Also, even if you clear this up with LSAC, definitely don't apply to that school. Idk what kind of shit they're on but that was just fucked up.

patches1995
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Re: Appealing a LSAC Misconduct notice

Postby patches1995 » Wed Apr 19, 2017 2:16 am

rpupkin wrote:
patches1995 wrote:
rpupkin wrote:One more thought, OP: Given what's at stake here, it wouldn't be a bad idea to have a lawyer review your submission to LSAC before you send it.


Is it expensive to have a lawyer review it? Or do you know if there is some free legal advice I can get?

It'll probably cost at least a couple hundred dollars. When you consider the possible problems you'll encounter if this doesn't go well for you, a couple hundred dollars seems inexpensive. Also, I don't know what an OLSAS is, but this sounds bad:

"On my transcript it says 3.66 and on the email I had 3.79."

All the more reason to have a lawyer review your letter/explanation.


Unfortunately, I don't have that kind of money so ill have to write something myself.

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brinicolec
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Re: Appealing a LSAC Misconduct notice

Postby brinicolec » Wed Apr 19, 2017 2:24 am

patches1995 wrote:
rpupkin wrote:
patches1995 wrote:
rpupkin wrote:One more thought, OP: Given what's at stake here, it wouldn't be a bad idea to have a lawyer review your submission to LSAC before you send it.


Is it expensive to have a lawyer review it? Or do you know if there is some free legal advice I can get?

It'll probably cost at least a couple hundred dollars. When you consider the possible problems you'll encounter if this doesn't go well for you, a couple hundred dollars seems inexpensive. Also, I don't know what an OLSAS is, but this sounds bad:

"On my transcript it says 3.66 and on the email I had 3.79."

All the more reason to have a lawyer review your letter/explanation.


Unfortunately, I don't have that kind of money so ill have to write something myself.


Also, if I'm understanding you correctly, have you not had LSAC officially calculate your LSAC GPA yet? You can do that BEFORE submitting any apps because it's the transcript reassessment. My understanding is that you used a calculator because you don't officially have an LSAC GPA yet, so what you quoted is what you expect your LSAC GPA to be. If that's the case, I would have your LSAC GPA calculated (hopefully, it's that 3.79) and explain that you hadn't yet officially gone through the calculation process so you used an online calculator that provides an LSAC GPA calculation and used that, which led to a GPA discrepancy between your transcript and the GPA you said you had and, having officially done the calculation through LSAC, that is, in fact, the LSAC GPA you received and so, it was an honest mistake not intended to mislead anyone and actually is the GPA you received via LSAC after going through the official process of GPA calculation.

Again though, that means you need to get the official LSAC GPA calculated and have it match the GPA you expected you'd receive.

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rpupkin
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Re: Appealing a LSAC Misconduct notice

Postby rpupkin » Wed Apr 19, 2017 2:31 am

patches1995 wrote:
rpupkin wrote:
patches1995 wrote:
rpupkin wrote:One more thought, OP: Given what's at stake here, it wouldn't be a bad idea to have a lawyer review your submission to LSAC before you send it.


Is it expensive to have a lawyer review it? Or do you know if there is some free legal advice I can get?

It'll probably cost at least a couple hundred dollars. When you consider the possible problems you'll encounter if this doesn't go well for you, a couple hundred dollars seems inexpensive. Also, I don't know what an OLSAS is, but this sounds bad:

"On my transcript it says 3.66 and on the email I had 3.79."

All the more reason to have a lawyer review your letter/explanation.


Unfortunately, I don't have that kind of money so ill have to write something myself.

Then borrow the money. C'mon, patches. You're just a misstep or two away from ending your career in the law before it starts. And, frankly, your independent judgment doesn't seem all that great at the moment. Can you really not understand the stakes here? You can write the letter yourself, but pay a lawyer to review/edit it.

cheaptilts
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Re: Appealing a LSAC Misconduct notice

Postby cheaptilts » Wed Apr 19, 2017 2:38 am

If the school's median is above a 3.66 but at or below a 3.78, they're probably just upset that you blueballed them. It would make it seem more likely that you did it intentionally though as a way to submit a late app.

The best counterargument though still is that you attached a copy of your transcript to the email. If the transcript contained the words "3.66," youd be even better off.

cheaptilts
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Re: Appealing a LSAC Misconduct notice

Postby cheaptilts » Wed Apr 19, 2017 2:48 am

You need to have a lawyer look at it.

foregetaboutdre
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Re: Appealing a LSAC Misconduct notice

Postby foregetaboutdre » Wed Apr 19, 2017 2:48 am

First off, that's shitty of the school. It looks like you didn't even apply and they still reported you.

Second, please forget cost and get a character and fitness attorney to draft a response to LSAC and perhaps to the school that reported you. This is one thing that can severely fuck up your bar application (C&F issues). You'll need their advice for filling out law school apps from now on (most likely) when they ask you about academic misconduct and they will probably give you advice how to fill those out. C&F has so many nuances about what is the "right move" and it is not always intuitive.




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