If we don't compare price then what are we comparing? The operating systems? I mean, as I said before, there is a lot more software support for Windows than there is for the Mac and a lot of software being used on Mac is ported from Windows making Windows its native environment. As far as hardware is concerned, you have a lot more choice when it comes to customizing your machine with Windows-based machines because Apple has predefined specs. I just went thru the Macbook Air "customizing" page on Apple.com and it lets me upgrade memory and the "superdrive" and that's it (for the guts at least). But, honestly, if money wasn't a big deal, I would buy a Macbook Pro and then some hardcore specc'ed out machine to do my actual computing on while I use my Macbook for public venues. But, I live in a world where money is an issue and if someone places enough value on aesthetic then I can't argue with that and I would probably recommend a Macbook because Apple knows how to make pretty products (unlike a lot of other companies...ugh, Dell is so fugly...seriously........).

[EDIT]
Just re-read what I wrote and I must say I sound quite hostile, lol. I just wanted to say that I did not mean for it come off hostile at all haha. If money is no issue I still think Windows machines are a better buy. I believe that in the end you will ultimately find yourself dual-booting to Windows and then that basically makes the Macbook a Windows machine (that looks nice) but without the lifespan (as far as tech is concerned) of its competitors. If you are absolutely enamored with Apple and its operating system and don't see yourself using Windows on a regular basis, and if price is not an issue then I would recommend the cheapest Macbook Pro. It offers an i5 (honestly, for all intents and purposes of a law student it still overkill), a substantial harddrive, a crappy integrated video card (but will at least survive for quite a few years, as long as you don't do anything intensive with it like run games, etc.), and enough memory to do whatever you need. But, as I've said before, for that amount of money, you can get something that will allow you to play games or run intensive things if for some reason you feel so inclined and will last you longer as far as the tech-curve is concerned.

Yeah, I've been coveting the 13' Airs forever, but I'm holding off to see what the new 13' MPB is.

well, through the grapevine i've heard that all MBPs are going to be ended except for the largest one (for designers and such, i guess), and that all other MBs will be airs.

Any truth to the idea that Macs are better for avoiding viruses? I suck at computers and am helpless when I end up with something that takes over my machine.

What do you think about Leenovo's , my dad works for IBM so if i do not get an apple product I will most likely get a leenovo product.

Any truth to the idea that Macs are better for avoiding viruses? I suck at computers and am helpless when I end up with something that takes over my machine.

Agreed. I am a techy, both professionally and at a personal level, and I have much disdain for Apple computers (primarily because of how closed off they are to the development community and how they have ironically become Big Brother...the very entity they literally claimed they were trying to defeat back in the 80s). I love the iPhone and the iPad, I think they are awesome gadgets, but when it comes down to laptops and desktops, Apple disgusts me. They charge exorbitant amounts of money for hardware that is worth between 1/2 to maybe 3/4 the actual value on the market based on competitors. Apple makes really pretty products though. The operating system is alright, but I feel Windows 7 has reclaimed MS's place in the OS hierarchy and Windows 8 looks like it could be even cooler (not to mention, 90% of software is compatible on Windows, whereas this is not true --at least at the capacity that Windows offers-- for Macs). Sure, many people say: "well, I am not going to be playing hardcore video games or making my computer do strenuous calculations, so I just want something that works well and looks good", but, you can get this from Windows machines as well but for half the price. My HP laptop blows the highest end macbook out of the water and was 1/2 the price (I paid 1,190 for it whereas, at the time, the macbook pro with comparable specs was 2,200 bucks).

And as for Apple computers "just working, out of the box"? well, if you can't get a windows machine to work out of the box, then I am not sure you've been around for the past 30 or 40 years...

People complain about tech support, but that is company dependent. I have heard horror stories about Dell, and I probably wouldn't buy a Dell (although I've dealt with Dell tech support before and was actually pretty pleased with the outcome). But, Lenovo and HP and Asus seem to be doing pretty well and the specs they offer at the prices they have are amazing...especially around xmas or back to school times.

This post is a flame on Apple, but I mean no disrespect to anyone who has purchased Apple products. I, myself, have an iPhone and am really happy with it. But, all I'm saying is that Apple is very expensive and I don't see the added benefit from an Apple versus its competitors. On the other hand, if you have tons of money and you care about what you look like in public to the degree that you need to make a fashion statement, then by all means, macbook pro is the way to go --it's a status symbol, for sure. But for someone like me, who is not rich (or at least doesn't have 2k sitting around), I would go with a Windows machine because you get much bigger bang for your buck.

My two cents...FWIW

Windows just does not equate to the latest versions of Mac OSX. The large trackpad and numerous swiping gestures and other features just make it so much more convenient and productive to use. Using a windows PC feels like using an old keyboard blackberry after having used an iPhone for some time.

These subtle but powerful differences are hard to appreciate if you have never owned and used the products daily before.

And for the record, I am talking about the latest versions of Mac OSX. I agree that earlier versions were similar enough with Windows.

I can't refute this because I am not entirely certain I have used the newest version of Mac OSX. I used a giant specc'ed out Mac desktop for work once and I didn't like it in comparison to the awesomeness that is Windows 7, but that was a few years back. Either way, a majority of my friends (who are engineers, so certainly not necessarily a relevant crowd for some of the folks on here) that own macs typically boot Windows on their machines (linux in most cases as well, but that is a side note).

In the end it comes down to a simple idea. You can get the same hardware on any other machine. So, the only difference that a Mac has is the OS and the aesthetic. Is the Mac OS really worth $1,000 more to a person? (for macbook pro. for other models it is literally double the price, i.e., the macbook air comparison I make in a previous post). I can't think of any operating system that, short of wiping my ass for me, would be worth paying 1k extra for. As far as the aesthetic is concerned, idk, HP has some nifty looking chassis and lenovo has a certain appeal to their look, and let's not forget sony (but sony is quite overpriced as well, so not sure I'd recommend sony).

i love how you think if the components are the same, the computers are the same.

Its really the large trackpad and new swiping gestures that create a much more efficient way to interact with your workspace. Check out the video demonstrations in this link http://www.apple.com/macosx/whats-new/gestures.html

They might appear gimmicky, but I am telling you from experience that they become second nature and after getting used to it, going back to windows feels like going back to a blackberry after having gotten accustomed to an IPhone.

Also the gestures are much more fluid than they appear in the video. They are very natural and when taken together vastly alter the experience. That was the "magic" of steve jobs, he had an appreciation for how subtle changes and details in summation can incredibly enhance user experience. During the birth of the PC, the technology was so new and novel, that attention to these details weren't necessary or as perceptible given the newness of it all, there simply wasn't any previous experience to compare it to.

Anyways thats my rant. I have windows on my mac, but only use it when I NEED to use a program and it is only available on windows. There is absolutely nothing advantageous about windows relative to Mac OSX unless there are obscure nerd things you need to do or perhaps gaming.

Can you tell me a discernible difference in the way the components are put together? Well, I can give you some differences to enlighten you in case you can't. The architecture of the Macbook is pretty wicked, and if you do some research it's advantages primarily come from how it is optimized for heat flow. That, honestly, is the biggest difference in effects that the two architectures really bring to the table.

just for your reference if you are a geek and want to actually see the innards:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xf84whQwbKk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Olrk1AJUclw



That trackpad does look pretty awesome. I have used the external trackpad once and it was pretty neat to use. On the other hand, I still don't quite see the extra thousand bucks worth of perks. You are absolutely right in that the reason Apple has made a come back is because it focused on the subtle design of the machine and is well regarded in the design community for that. But, to be the devil's advocate again, for that extra thousand bucks I could get all the bells and whistles on a Windows machine and probably even have some money left over to buy an iPad (which I actually desperately want).

viruses.

even though naysayers say viruses for macs are on the rise, it must be hard as shit to get them.

Viruses are fucking hard to get on a windows machine too. I honestly don't know how people do. Just install one of the various free antivirus programs (e.g., avast) and don't go to shady porn sites.

Huh? Yes the Macbook Air has USB. But not the iPad..

Oh yea forgot to correct that. In terms of DVD playing, you can get an external drive for pretty cheap or wirelessly connect to any dvd drive on your network (once they enable disc drive sharing).
That is, if you're super determined to watch a dvd on an 11/13" screen.

Improved heat flow + improved case = more durability, speed, and less weight. Nicer screen, nicer keyboard, much better track pad, and yes nicer aesthetic. Components are actually reasonably placed for working on the shit (although you'll void your warranty...). Even if you match the specs, you're getting a nicer/better overall product. You'll notice that there are indeed more expensive PCs with similar specs, because the manufacturers use better materials that last longer and with more attention to design. Improved design has more benefits than looking cool...

If you need to work on any remote server that's problem *nix based, it's also really nice being able to go straight from the terminal and work natively --feels super weird to be requesting 'ls' through putty on a windows machine.

You wrote about the mac being merely a fashion statement and that Apple disgusts you.
Can you please retract that

This post is a flame on Apple, but I mean no disrespect to anyone who has purchased Apple products. I, myself, have an iPhone and am really happy with it. But, all I'm saying is that Apple is very expensive and I don't see the added benefit from an Apple versus its competitors. On the other hand, if you have tons of money and you care about what you look like in public to the degree that you need to make a fashion statement, then by all means, macbook pro is the way to go --it's a status symbol, for sure. But for someone like me, who is not rich (or at least doesn't have 2k sitting around), I would go with a Windows machine because you get much bigger bang for your buck.

My two cents...FWIW

Hey tlsnoobie, are you involved with the occupy movement?