Texas Law c/o 2020 - Hook 'em!!! [Under New Management] Forum

[Hikikomorist]

How much do you guys think a scholarship from BU will sway UT?

I'm still waiting on hearing about a scholarship, but based on last year's LSN stuff, I'm looking at probably $50-60k (60k being more optimistic) for my stats. Unfortunately, it's hard to know if these are negotiated scholarships or just the initial offer. Comparatively, BU has offered me $120k (over 75% tuition). Assuming that UT grants me in-state tuition and considering Boston's higher CoL, the couple of calculators I've plugged numbers into suggest BU would be cheaper. I know that BU is 20 and Texas is 15 but I'm confused about how exactly the peer schools work for this since after T14 they become quite regional... Even if Texas wouldn't match completely (cost-wise, not exact amount-wise), do you think they'd be willing to throw a little more money my way to lessen the blow?

Also, how much would you guys consider the lower CoL AFTER graduating when thinking about which school is ultimately "cheaper"? Boston prices seem to be up there around NYC prices and I'm wondering if it's a good idea to consider that after graduating, if I go to BU, I would either be working in Boston or NYC as compared to Houston/Dallas if I go to UT (plus, as people love to mention, the lower taxes in TX help money go farther).

So, you'd effectively be getting up to $110k or so from UT? Seems like you'd make up that difference in CoL over the three years, or pretty close to it.

Up to $110k in debt, you mean?

Edit: or are you saying that you think UT will give me more than I'm anticipating because of the offer I got from BU?

Putting together the in-state tuition waiver with $20k/year gets you to $110k or so, or were you expecting the in-state waiver to be the extent of your scholarship offer?

[brinicolec]

How much do you guys think a scholarship from BU will sway UT?

I'm still waiting on hearing about a scholarship, but based on last year's LSN stuff, I'm looking at probably $50-60k (60k being more optimistic) for my stats. Unfortunately, it's hard to know if these are negotiated scholarships or just the initial offer. Comparatively, BU has offered me $120k (over 75% tuition). Assuming that UT grants me in-state tuition and considering Boston's higher CoL, the couple of calculators I've plugged numbers into suggest BU would be cheaper. I know that BU is 20 and Texas is 15 but I'm confused about how exactly the peer schools work for this since after T14 they become quite regional... Even if Texas wouldn't match completely (cost-wise, not exact amount-wise), do you think they'd be willing to throw a little more money my way to lessen the blow?

Also, how much would you guys consider the lower CoL AFTER graduating when thinking about which school is ultimately "cheaper"? Boston prices seem to be up there around NYC prices and I'm wondering if it's a good idea to consider that after graduating, if I go to BU, I would either be working in Boston or NYC as compared to Houston/Dallas if I go to UT (plus, as people love to mention, the lower taxes in TX help money go farther).

So, you'd effectively be getting up to $110k or so from UT? Seems like you'd make up that difference in CoL over the three years, or pretty close to it.

Up to $110k in debt, you mean?

Edit: or are you saying that you think UT will give me more than I'm anticipating because of the offer I got from BU?

Putting together the in-state tuition waiver with $20k/year gets you to $110k or so, or were you expecting the in-state waiver to be the extent of your scholarship offer?

Ah, okay, after I put that, I started to wonder if that's what you meant. I don't expect that they'll ONLY give me the waiver. My GPA isn't great (~ 3.4), but my LSAT is at median (and I'm a URM if that helps with scholly). I think with the in-state waiver + ~ $60k, BU still ends up being cheaper by a little bit but my thinking is that even though BU would be cheaper to attend, I'd still have a harder time paying off those loans because the CoL for where I live post-grad would be higher (so my money wouldn't go as far).

[Hikikomorist]

How much do you guys think a scholarship from BU will sway UT?

I'm still waiting on hearing about a scholarship, but based on last year's LSN stuff, I'm looking at probably $50-60k (60k being more optimistic) for my stats. Unfortunately, it's hard to know if these are negotiated scholarships or just the initial offer. Comparatively, BU has offered me $120k (over 75% tuition). Assuming that UT grants me in-state tuition and considering Boston's higher CoL, the couple of calculators I've plugged numbers into suggest BU would be cheaper. I know that BU is 20 and Texas is 15 but I'm confused about how exactly the peer schools work for this since after T14 they become quite regional... Even if Texas wouldn't match completely (cost-wise, not exact amount-wise), do you think they'd be willing to throw a little more money my way to lessen the blow?

Also, how much would you guys consider the lower CoL AFTER graduating when thinking about which school is ultimately "cheaper"? Boston prices seem to be up there around NYC prices and I'm wondering if it's a good idea to consider that after graduating, if I go to BU, I would either be working in Boston or NYC as compared to Houston/Dallas if I go to UT (plus, as people love to mention, the lower taxes in TX help money go farther).

So, you'd effectively be getting up to $110k or so from UT? Seems like you'd make up that difference in CoL over the three years, or pretty close to it.

Up to $110k in debt, you mean?

Edit: or are you saying that you think UT will give me more than I'm anticipating because of the offer I got from BU?

Putting together the in-state tuition waiver with $20k/year gets you to $110k or so, or were you expecting the in-state waiver to be the extent of your scholarship offer?

Ah, okay, after I put that, I started to wonder if that's what you meant. I don't expect that they'll ONLY give me the waiver. My GPA isn't great (~ 3.4), but my LSAT is at median (and I'm a URM if that helps with scholly). I think with the in-state waiver + ~ $60k, BU still ends up being cheaper by a little bit but my thinking is that even though BU would be cheaper to attend, I'd still have a harder time paying off those loans because the CoL for where I live post-grad would be higher (so my money wouldn't go as far).

Yeah, with a waiver and $20k/year, I think UT is a better choice than your BU offer.

[brinicolec]

How much do you guys think a scholarship from BU will sway UT?

I'm still waiting on hearing about a scholarship, but based on last year's LSN stuff, I'm looking at probably $50-60k (60k being more optimistic) for my stats. Unfortunately, it's hard to know if these are negotiated scholarships or just the initial offer. Comparatively, BU has offered me $120k (over 75% tuition). Assuming that UT grants me in-state tuition and considering Boston's higher CoL, the couple of calculators I've plugged numbers into suggest BU would be cheaper. I know that BU is 20 and Texas is 15 but I'm confused about how exactly the peer schools work for this since after T14 they become quite regional... Even if Texas wouldn't match completely (cost-wise, not exact amount-wise), do you think they'd be willing to throw a little more money my way to lessen the blow?

Also, how much would you guys consider the lower CoL AFTER graduating when thinking about which school is ultimately "cheaper"? Boston prices seem to be up there around NYC prices and I'm wondering if it's a good idea to consider that after graduating, if I go to BU, I would either be working in Boston or NYC as compared to Houston/Dallas if I go to UT (plus, as people love to mention, the lower taxes in TX help money go farther).

So, you'd effectively be getting up to $110k or so from UT? Seems like you'd make up that difference in CoL over the three years, or pretty close to it.

Up to $110k in debt, you mean?

Edit: or are you saying that you think UT will give me more than I'm anticipating because of the offer I got from BU?

Putting together the in-state tuition waiver with $20k/year gets you to $110k or so, or were you expecting the in-state waiver to be the extent of your scholarship offer?

Ah, okay, after I put that, I started to wonder if that's what you meant. I don't expect that they'll ONLY give me the waiver. My GPA isn't great (~ 3.4), but my LSAT is at median (and I'm a URM if that helps with scholly). I think with the in-state waiver + ~ $60k, BU still ends up being cheaper by a little bit but my thinking is that even though BU would be cheaper to attend, I'd still have a harder time paying off those loans because the CoL for where I live post-grad would be higher (so my money wouldn't go as far).

Yeah, with a waiver and $20k/year, I think UT is a better choice than your BU offer.

So I realized that BU underestimates housing (or at least, since I want to live alone at least 1L, it's low for me) which makes BU more debt than UT by about $14-15k. I'm hoping UT will let me know how much they're gonna give me soon, but I just got accepted last Monday so I may have a couple more weeks worth of waiting left.

Also, do most people who submit for scholarship reconsideration before the end of March tend to get a scholarship increase? The reason I'm asking is I find the whole process strange and was wondering if it was a way for UT to try to gauge interest since if you submit for reconsideration by March 27, you have to decide by March 31 and if you accept an increased scholarship, it's basically a way of cementing that you're going to UT.

[Hikikomorist]

How much do you guys think a scholarship from BU will sway UT?

I'm still waiting on hearing about a scholarship, but based on last year's LSN stuff, I'm looking at probably $50-60k (60k being more optimistic) for my stats. Unfortunately, it's hard to know if these are negotiated scholarships or just the initial offer. Comparatively, BU has offered me $120k (over 75% tuition). Assuming that UT grants me in-state tuition and considering Boston's higher CoL, the couple of calculators I've plugged numbers into suggest BU would be cheaper. I know that BU is 20 and Texas is 15 but I'm confused about how exactly the peer schools work for this since after T14 they become quite regional... Even if Texas wouldn't match completely (cost-wise, not exact amount-wise), do you think they'd be willing to throw a little more money my way to lessen the blow?

Also, how much would you guys consider the lower CoL AFTER graduating when thinking about which school is ultimately "cheaper"? Boston prices seem to be up there around NYC prices and I'm wondering if it's a good idea to consider that after graduating, if I go to BU, I would either be working in Boston or NYC as compared to Houston/Dallas if I go to UT (plus, as people love to mention, the lower taxes in TX help money go farther).

So, you'd effectively be getting up to $110k or so from UT? Seems like you'd make up that difference in CoL over the three years, or pretty close to it.

Up to $110k in debt, you mean?

Edit: or are you saying that you think UT will give me more than I'm anticipating because of the offer I got from BU?

Putting together the in-state tuition waiver with $20k/year gets you to $110k or so, or were you expecting the in-state waiver to be the extent of your scholarship offer?

Ah, okay, after I put that, I started to wonder if that's what you meant. I don't expect that they'll ONLY give me the waiver. My GPA isn't great (~ 3.4), but my LSAT is at median (and I'm a URM if that helps with scholly). I think with the in-state waiver + ~ $60k, BU still ends up being cheaper by a little bit but my thinking is that even though BU would be cheaper to attend, I'd still have a harder time paying off those loans because the CoL for where I live post-grad would be higher (so my money wouldn't go as far).

Yeah, with a waiver and $20k/year, I think UT is a better choice than your BU offer.

So I realized that BU underestimates housing (or at least, since I want to live alone at least 1L, it's low for me) which makes BU more debt than UT by about $14-15k. I'm hoping UT will let me know how much they're gonna give me soon, but I just got accepted last Monday so I may have a couple more weeks worth of waiting left.

Also, do most people who submit for scholarship reconsideration before the end of March tend to get a scholarship increase? The reason I'm asking is I find the whole process strange and was wondering if it was a way for UT to try to gauge interest since if you submit for reconsideration by March 27, you have to decide by March 31 and if you accept an increased scholarship, it's basically a way of cementing that you're going to UT.

New admissions staff with (apparently) new policies, so I can't really help there. I will say, though, that your numbers suggest you'll probably eventually get a better offer somewhere higher up on the food chain.

[brinicolec]

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Eh, it's been a rough cycle for me within the T14. I got accepted to Michigan but they want me to pay sticker and I don't have any solid bargaining chips to negotiate that up. Also got accepted to Georgetown (waiting for scholarship info) but have my reservations about it as well (mostly the class size). Other than that, the only T14 I'm waiting on is NU. The others I applied to either rejected or WLed me. And I don't think I'm willing to pay sticker for anywhere so the WL thing is cool, but not likely to change anything for me.

[Hikikomorist]

.

Eh, it's been a rough cycle for me within the T14. I got accepted to Michigan but they want me to pay sticker and I don't have any solid bargaining chips to negotiate that up. Also got accepted to Georgetown (waiting for scholarship info) but have my reservations about it as well (mostly the class size). Other than that, the only T14 I'm waiting on is NU. The others I applied to either rejected or WLed me. And I don't think I'm willing to pay sticker for anywhere so the WL thing is cool, but not likely to change anything for me.

FWIW, it's still really early in the process for scholarship negotiations.

[brinicolec]

.

Eh, it's been a rough cycle for me within the T14. I got accepted to Michigan but they want me to pay sticker and I don't have any solid bargaining chips to negotiate that up. Also got accepted to Georgetown (waiting for scholarship info) but have my reservations about it as well (mostly the class size). Other than that, the only T14 I'm waiting on is NU. The others I applied to either rejected or WLed me. And I don't think I'm willing to pay sticker for anywhere so the WL thing is cool, but not likely to change anything for me.

FWIW, it's still really early in the process for scholarship negotiations.

I know, but what I'm saying is I won't have enough leverage to negotiate within the T14. Georgetown is KNOWN to be stingy with money (more than half of their students pay sticker) and we all know that while Georgetown is a T14, it's not Michigan's peer. Also, my Michigan acceptance is for summer start so... there's that.

[Hikikomorist]

.

Eh, it's been a rough cycle for me within the T14. I got accepted to Michigan but they want me to pay sticker and I don't have any solid bargaining chips to negotiate that up. Also got accepted to Georgetown (waiting for scholarship info) but have my reservations about it as well (mostly the class size). Other than that, the only T14 I'm waiting on is NU. The others I applied to either rejected or WLed me. And I don't think I'm willing to pay sticker for anywhere so the WL thing is cool, but not likely to change anything for me.

FWIW, it's still really early in the process for scholarship negotiations.

I know, but what I'm saying is I won't have enough leverage to negotiate within the T14. Georgetown is KNOWN to be stingy with money (more than half of their students pay sticker) and we all know that while Georgetown is a T14, it's not Michigan's peer. Also, my Michigan acceptance is for summer start so... there's that.

I negotiated a fairly large bump in my Duke offer without another T-14 acceptance as leverage. I think it's more about how much they need your numbers than about what other offers you have. Leverage certainly helps at the margins, but I think you can still expect to see a competitive offer for your numbers without it, as long as you keep pushing for it.

[brinicolec]

.

Eh, it's been a rough cycle for me within the T14. I got accepted to Michigan but they want me to pay sticker and I don't have any solid bargaining chips to negotiate that up. Also got accepted to Georgetown (waiting for scholarship info) but have my reservations about it as well (mostly the class size). Other than that, the only T14 I'm waiting on is NU. The others I applied to either rejected or WLed me. And I don't think I'm willing to pay sticker for anywhere so the WL thing is cool, but not likely to change anything for me.

FWIW, it's still really early in the process for scholarship negotiations.

I know, but what I'm saying is I won't have enough leverage to negotiate within the T14. Georgetown is KNOWN to be stingy with money (more than half of their students pay sticker) and we all know that while Georgetown is a T14, it's not Michigan's peer. Also, my Michigan acceptance is for summer start so... there's that.

I negotiated a fairly large bump in my Duke offer without another T-14 acceptance as leverage. I think it's more about how much they need your numbers than about what other offers you have. Leverage certainly helps at the margins, but I think you can still expect to see a competitive offer for your numbers without it, as long as you keep pushing for it.

Hm, so why did you choose UT over Duke if you don't mind me asking?

[Gitaroo_Dude]

Less than 10 days until I leave for ASW and ooooooohhhhhh my god this is all starting to feel so real.

Hard to believe after all this time, I'm finally going to be choosing a school and my decision could be made as early as like 12 days from now.

Anyone know if it's worth waiting in line for Franklin's BBQ, or are there comparable places to hit up for lunch?

[Babe-Loblaw]

Less than 10 days until I leave for ASW and ooooooohhhhhh my god this is all starting to feel so real.

Hard to believe after all this time, I'm finally going to be choosing a school and my decision could be made as early as like 12 days from now.

Anyone know if it's worth waiting in line for Franklin's BBQ, or are there comparable places to hit up for lunch?

You're not gonna get lunch at Franklin's unless you start waiting at 7am. It's definitely worth it but if you've got a limited amount of time to see stuff, Hoover's over on the east side is also damn good, or Stiles Switch if you're up north.

[Tx878]

Less than 10 days until I leave for ASW and ooooooohhhhhh my god this is all starting to feel so real.

Hard to believe after all this time, I'm finally going to be choosing a school and my decision could be made as early as like 12 days from now.

Anyone know if it's worth waiting in line for Franklin's BBQ, or are there comparable places to hit up for lunch?

You're not gonna get lunch at Franklin's unless you start waiting at 7am. It's definitely worth it but if you've got a limited amount of time to see stuff, Hoover's over on the east side is also damn good, or Stiles Switch if you're up north.

+1000 for Hoover's. One of my favorites!

[brinicolec]

Are there parts of Austin that are "walkable"?

I know Austin itself isn't a place you can be without a car, but is downtown very walkable?

[Torres1893]

Finally got dinged by Michigan, so now I'm 99% sure I'm going to UT. Only reasons why I won't are if I get extremely wowed at the ASD at Indiana or I be my normal self and not risk it all by taking on so much debt at UT and going the "safe route" with Indiana.

On another note, I'm excited for the admitted student reception in Houston this week. I really like going to downtown Houston, especially in the evening. Hopefully it's business casual because I'm not suiting up for a reception that is only an hour long. If any of y'all go you should know who I am if we have to wear name tags lol.

[brinicolec]

Finally got dinged by Michigan, so now I'm 99% sure I'm going to UT. Only reasons why I won't are if I get extremely wowed at the ASD at Indiana or I be my normal self and not risk it all by taking on so much debt at UT and going the "safe route" with Indiana.

On another note, I'm excited for the admitted student reception in Houston this week. I really like going to downtown Houston, especially in the evening. Hopefully it's business casual because I'm not suiting up for a reception that is only an hour long. If any of y'all go you should know who I am if we have to wear name tags lol.

I'm jealous of this level of certainty lol. I wish I could get this kind of certainty, but alas, I'm still waiting on NU to decide on me + my parents are still like, "I don't know you'd like Texas." But I also think they slightly underestimate my willingness to have a city that's not quite as hustle/bustle/vibrant as NYC or DC.

[Torres1893]

Finally got dinged by Michigan, so now I'm 99% sure I'm going to UT. Only reasons why I won't are if I get extremely wowed at the ASD at Indiana or I be my normal self and not risk it all by taking on so much debt at UT and going the "safe route" with Indiana.

On another note, I'm excited for the admitted student reception in Houston this week. I really like going to downtown Houston, especially in the evening. Hopefully it's business casual because I'm not suiting up for a reception that is only an hour long. If any of y'all go you should know who I am if we have to wear name tags lol.

I'm jealous of this level of certainty lol. I wish I could get this kind of certainty, but alas, I'm still waiting on NU to decide on me + my parents are still like, "I don't know you'd like Texas." But I also think they slightly underestimate my willingness to have a city that's not quite as hustle/bustle/vibrant as NYC or DC.

The cycle is close the ending, so you'll get it soon. I'm sure you'll like Austin. I don't think I met anyone who did not like Austin when they visited. it's just one of those cities that has that vibe. Might be the young crowd tbh lol.

[Torres1893]

As much as I want to live near the school, I think I'm going to bite the bullet and get a cheaper/same price apartment that's farther from the school and that's a hell of a lot nicer than some of the ones nearby. If I can handle Houston traffic I think I can handle Austin.

[brinicolec]

As much as I want to live near the school, I think I'm going to bite the bullet and get a cheaper/same price apartment that's farther from the school and that's a hell of a lot nicer than some of the ones nearby. If I can handle Houston traffic I think I can handle Austin.

Bigger concern for me is parking at UT sucks

[Torres1893]

As much as I want to live near the school, I think I'm going to bite the bullet and get a cheaper/same price apartment that's farther from the school and that's a hell of a lot nicer than some of the ones nearby. If I can handle Houston traffic I think I can handle Austin.

Bigger concern for me is parking at UT sucks

You're right

Back to square one it is.

[journalisttolaw]

Thanks to all who have offered to answer questions. I am excited to be attending UT Law this Fall. I kind of want to get an idea of what to expect so I have an odd question. Can you talk about some of the things that you dislike about being a student at UT, if any? I'm aware of the positives of the school, but haven't heard much about any negatives. I am familiar with Austin so I know the good/bad of the area, but can you talk about any grievances you have with the school in particular (classes, professors, administration, employment prospects, facilities, etc.)? I figure there must be at least a few. Thanks again!

With the same disclaimer as last time (that none of this should affect your decision): the school is mostly old and not very pretty. They've been doing work in this area and continue to do so, but the building largely is what it is at this point. This is also the case with most law schools, I think. Employment prospects could always be better, and were I in your shoes, I'd be hoping for a smaller class size. But UT has handled class sizes more responsibly than a lot of law schools, so it's hard to fault them. That's the main thing: the ducky things about UT are mostly the ducky things about all the other law schools, much like how the good things are mostly all the same, too. I know that doesn't help much for those still choosing between schools (not you, but anyone else).

When I crept through the school over the summer (early-August-ish), they seemed to be doing some work. Any idea what it was?

Is the reasoning behind hoping for a smaller class size that it makes UT Law grads harder to come by/more competitive in the market or is there another reason?

Also, a question not really related to your answers: What are the 1L section sizes at UT?

I'd say that your complaints seem to be minimal as compared to some other complaints I've seen about other schools lol.

They remodeled the main lobby area and added a cafe. My year had 65-person sections, but I think they usually have around 75 people. And, yeah, the only reason for wanting fewer people is to boost employment prospects.

Ohhhh. A cafe?! Just pastries and coffee? Did they also do something to the library or something like that?

I know other schools are currently working on cutting class sizes, is that a thing UT has mentioned at all or do you think they're content with their class size?

Hikikomorist and the other current students on here probably know more than me, but I had a friend attend some kind of UT Law admissions panel last cycle and he said they told the audience that they were trying to decrease the class size. I think it was to like 200-250 1L's, but I could be totally wrong on that number. According to my friend, they were definitely adamant about reducing the size though. Interestingly, the 1L class grew last year by 11% according to LST so who knows what is going on.

FWIW, I was initially rejected with a lower LSAT, and in my rejection email, they said that they were lowering the class size. No idea if they were just being nice, though.

[brinicolec]

Thanks to all who have offered to answer questions. I am excited to be attending UT Law this Fall. I kind of want to get an idea of what to expect so I have an odd question. Can you talk about some of the things that you dislike about being a student at UT, if any? I'm aware of the positives of the school, but haven't heard much about any negatives. I am familiar with Austin so I know the good/bad of the area, but can you talk about any grievances you have with the school in particular (classes, professors, administration, employment prospects, facilities, etc.)? I figure there must be at least a few. Thanks again!

With the same disclaimer as last time (that none of this should affect your decision): the school is mostly old and not very pretty. They've been doing work in this area and continue to do so, but the building largely is what it is at this point. This is also the case with most law schools, I think. Employment prospects could always be better, and were I in your shoes, I'd be hoping for a smaller class size. But UT has handled class sizes more responsibly than a lot of law schools, so it's hard to fault them. That's the main thing: the ducky things about UT are mostly the ducky things about all the other law schools, much like how the good things are mostly all the same, too. I know that doesn't help much for those still choosing between schools (not you, but anyone else).

When I crept through the school over the summer (early-August-ish), they seemed to be doing some work. Any idea what it was?

Is the reasoning behind hoping for a smaller class size that it makes UT Law grads harder to come by/more competitive in the market or is there another reason?

Also, a question not really related to your answers: What are the 1L section sizes at UT?

I'd say that your complaints seem to be minimal as compared to some other complaints I've seen about other schools lol.

They remodeled the main lobby area and added a cafe. My year had 65-person sections, but I think they usually have around 75 people. And, yeah, the only reason for wanting fewer people is to boost employment prospects.

Ohhhh. A cafe?! Just pastries and coffee? Did they also do something to the library or something like that?

I know other schools are currently working on cutting class sizes, is that a thing UT has mentioned at all or do you think they're content with their class size?

Hikikomorist and the other current students on here probably know more than me, but I had a friend attend some kind of UT Law admissions panel last cycle and he said they told the audience that they were trying to decrease the class size. I think it was to like 200-250 1L's, but I could be totally wrong on that number. According to my friend, they were definitely adamant about reducing the size though. Interestingly, the 1L class grew last year by 11% according to LST so who knows what is going on.

FWIW, I was initially rejected with a lower LSAT, and in my rejection email, they said that they were lowering the class size. No idea if they were just being nice, though.

Rejected in previous cycle?

[journalisttolaw]

Rejected in previous cycle?

No, this one. I resubmitted with a higher LSAT after December scores came out and got in.

[poptart123]

.

[Gitaroo_Dude]

Less than 10 days until I leave for ASW and ooooooohhhhhh my god this is all starting to feel so real.

Hard to believe after all this time, I'm finally going to be choosing a school and my decision could be made as early as like 12 days from now.

Anyone know if it's worth waiting in line for Franklin's BBQ, or are there comparable places to hit up for lunch?

You're not gonna get lunch at Franklin's unless you start waiting at 7am. It's definitely worth it but if you've got a limited amount of time to see stuff, Hoover's over on the east side is also damn good, or Stiles Switch if you're up north.

+1000 for Hoover's. One of my favorites!

Thanks all. I'm free on Thursday 'til like 2pm or so, but I don't think I wanna spend most of my day in a line. Hoover's it is.