What would you pick: Columbia v. NYU Forum

bluesteel · Post by **bluesteel** » Sun Apr 19, 2015 8:07 am

Hey-- I'm in the same boat as a million other people. Columbia with 40,000 or NYU with 50,000. Trying to decide. Remember, the difference is really more than 10,000 because of the difference in total cost and interest. Really more like 40k higher at Columbia by the time I graduate.

Please vote below! (AND POST WHY!)

TLSModBot · Post by **TLSModBot** » Sun Apr 19, 2015 8:20 am

What are your career goals? If you want NYC Biglaw, either will get you there just fine. Columbia has slightly better employment outcomes going by the numbers (various caveats apply there though), but not enough such that I'd say it's a clear choice one way or the other. Pick whichever one you like the best.

If you want to parse the data yourself, check out this thread:

http://top-law-schools.com/forums/viewt ... 2&t=245859

bluesteel · Post by **bluesteel** » Sun Apr 19, 2015 8:25 am

im not sure what I want yet. Probably not biglaw long term, but could be a springboard to something else. Want to keep my options open.... Columbia seems like it could be the safer choice but I had a better impression at NYU when I visited. This might have been a random thing though...

bklynlady · Post by **bklynlady** » Sun Apr 19, 2015 8:34 am

The money differential is totally inconsequential in the bigger scheme of life. Did you visit both places? Did you meet other students and ask them questions? Which neighborhood did you like better? Where would you prefer to live? What type of law do you want to practice and does either place offer you an advantage in that respect. What about class size? Thankfully, either decision is a good one! Good luck!

bluesteel · Post by **bluesteel** » Sun Apr 19, 2015 9:32 am

I visited both, but NYU on an admitted students day and columbia on a random day. Columbia students i talked to just seemed much more geared towards biglaw and a little more of a herd in that sense. Also they seem to not have as much structure to help students figure out what they want to do if biglaw isn't the end game. but I didn't get to see them roll out all the crap for admitted students in the same way i did at NYU.

bklynlady · Post by **bklynlady** » Sun Apr 19, 2015 9:54 am

I believe tomorrow, 4/20 is a "Monday at Columbia" for admitted students. Anyway you can make it over there?

smaug · Post by **smaug** » Sun Apr 19, 2015 11:39 am

bluesteel wrote:Hey-- I'm in the same boat as a million other people. Columbia with 40,000 or NYU with 50,000. Trying to decide. Remember, the difference is really more than 10,000 because of the difference in total cost and interest. Really more like 40k higher at Columbia by the time I graduate.

Please vote below! (AND POST WHY!)

Is it taking into account differences in housing costs?

10k might end up being about the same? Otherwise, yeah, follow the money unless you really really like CLS more than NYU

Comma.Split · Post by **Comma.Split** » Sun Apr 19, 2015 4:16 pm

bluesteel wrote:im not sure what I want yet. Probably not biglaw long term, but could be a springboard to something else. Want to keep my options open.... Columbia seems like it could be the safer choice but I had a better impression at NYU when I visited. This might have been a random thing though...

If you are not sure whether you want to do BigLaw, take NYU, it will give you a wider range of options (public interest, clerkships, etc). Columbia is very BigLaw focused. I know people who entered Columbia thinking they will do PI or government, but the culture really pushes you to do BigLaw. When BigLaw is all everyone talks about, it is kinda hard to be the only PI person. NYU certainly places more people into clerkships and PI.

smaug · Post by **smaug** » Sun Apr 19, 2015 4:18 pm

Comma.Split wrote:
bluesteel wrote:im not sure what I want yet. Probably not biglaw long term, but could be a springboard to something else. Want to keep my options open.... Columbia seems like it could be the safer choice but I had a better impression at NYU when I visited. This might have been a random thing though...
If you are not sure whether you want to do BigLaw, take NYU, it will give you a wider range of options (public interest, clerkships, etc). Columbia is very BigLaw focused. I know people who entered Columbia thinking they will do PI or government, but the culture really pushes you to do BigLaw. When BigLaw is all everyone talks about, it is kinda hard to be the only PI person. NYU certainly places more people into clerkships and PI.

lol

Nekrowizard · Post by **Nekrowizard** » Sun Apr 19, 2015 4:37 pm

Post removed.

CanadianWolf · Post by **CanadianWolf** » Sun Apr 19, 2015 4:40 pm

Two great options. Congratulations !

k5220 · Post by **k5220** » Sun Apr 19, 2015 5:15 pm

I don't think the employment opportunities are THAT different out of NYU and Columbia. There's a lot of self selection behind the numbers, Columbia probably provides a slight edge for more selective biglaw, NYU has better support for public interest, but nothing super significant that would prevent you from getting a good job in biglaw or public interest out of either school.

They're basically peer schools. With roughly equal money, go to the one you like more. Being happy and comfortable during your 3 years is pretty important.

If you like NYU more and they're giving you a little more money, you should absolutely feel good about choosing to go to NYU.

k5220 · Post by **k5220** » Sun Apr 19, 2015 5:18 pm

Also- have you tried negotiating the money? If you would rather go to Columbia, you could see if you could get them to close the gap in COA a little for you. Doesn't hurt to ask

03152016 · Post by **03152016** » Sun Apr 19, 2015 5:36 pm

Jason Taverner wrote:Is it taking into account differences in housing costs?

10k might end up being about the same?

i haven't checked in a while, but i think the higher housing costs at nyu balances out b/c of lower tuition
they end up with almost identical coa at equal aid amounts

yomisterd · Post by **yomisterd** » Sun Apr 19, 2015 5:55 pm

k5220 wrote:I don't think the employment opportunities are THAT different out of NYU and Columbia. There's a lot of self selection behind the numbers, Columbia probably provides a slight edge for more selective biglaw, NYU has better support for public interest, but nothing super significant that would prevent you from getting a good job in biglaw or public interest out of either school.

They're basically peer schools. With roughly equal money, go to the one you like more. Being happy and comfortable during your 3 years is pretty important.

If you like NYU more and they're giving you a little more money, you should absolutely feel good about choosing to go to NYU.

While Columbia placed larger numbers, both Columbia and NYU placed multiple students at each of the V10. BigLaw outcomes are going to be great either way. When I was applying I got the feeling that NYU has a good PI community, but either way its a great option.

I'd personally rather live in the Village.

bluesteel · Post by **bluesteel** » Mon Apr 20, 2015 8:56 am

I cant make it to the admitted students day at columbia today-- I know both choices are good ones. Its coming down to the wire here!

bklynlady · Post by **bklynlady** » Mon Apr 20, 2015 9:01 am

Had to give NYU answer today; I decided CLS....

NoLieAbility · Post by **NoLieAbility** » Mon Apr 20, 2015 9:15 am

Confirm for me that your numbers listed above are COA and not total scholly? Either choice is super-defensible in the case of the former, but if it's the latter, nobody with any sense on this forum would encourage either option. That debt load is ridiculous for someone who is uncertain of what their next step will be.

NoLieAbility · Post by **NoLieAbility** » Mon Apr 20, 2015 9:49 am

NoLieAbility wrote:Confirm for me that your numbers listed above are COA and not total scholly? Either choice is super-defensible in the case of the former, but if it's the latter, nobody with any sense on this forum would encourage either option. That debt load is ridiculous for someone who is uncertain of what their next step will be.

Update: OP PMed me. Those are total scholarships.

OP, nobody is arguing that NYU or Columbia won't give you a wide range of options at graduation. When you aren't certain what you want to do, however, taking out the amount of debt that you're talking about is risky beyond the point of foolhardiness. Do you have larger scholarships from any other schools? If you got 50k from NYU, I'd wager you got nice packages from Cornell/UVA/Duke/Penn. Those schools will give you comparable opportunities while (presumably) offering a softer fall if things go sideways for you.

bluesteel · Post by **bluesteel** » Mon Apr 20, 2015 10:18 am

It's not that I am uncertain about what I want to do. I just recognize that many people go into law school with delusions as to where they will end up. I have none. But I am far lacking in direction-- my specific interests are what lead me to apply to law school. I just want to keep my options open. Eventually I think I'd like to work in government or a firm, but the goal for me to be happy and fulfilled is not big law. That could be a stepping stone to something else though.

smaug · Post by **smaug** » Mon Apr 20, 2015 10:31 am

bluesteel wrote:It's not that I am uncertain about what I want to do. I just recognize that many people go into law school with delusions as to where they will end up. I have none. But I am far lacking in direction-- my specific interests are what lead me to apply to law school. I just want to keep my options open. Eventually I think I'd like to work in government or a firm, but the goal for me to be happy and fulfilled is not big law. That could be a stepping stone to something else though.

on the other prong—do you have a T14 option with more cash?

bluesteel · Post by **bluesteel** » Mon Apr 20, 2015 10:37 am

No I didn't apply to cornell/UVA/duke/penn etc. for geographical, family related reasons (long story). So my applications were a bit skewed. on the waitlist at harvard and big money at lower ranking schools (UCLA, USC, etc) but not interested in going there. Definitely come down to Columbia v. NYU

NoLieAbility · Post by **NoLieAbility** » Mon Apr 20, 2015 10:43 am

Sounds like you have little-to-no risk aversion. Both NYU and Columbia hold significant risk for you, but they're comparable, so the choice is going to be a personal one. I would find a way to go to a lower-ranked school for substantially less - even if that meant sitting out a year - but my cycle isn't your cycle.

Best of luck.

bretby · Post by **bretby** » Mon Apr 20, 2015 11:02 am

If you feel comfortable with the amount of debt you are taking on, I would pick NYU for a number of reasons:

1. Columbia does feel much more big-law focused. From the couple of events I attended at the ASW, all the current students I spoke to were set on big law and seemed to know very little about non big-law options. This is not the case at NYU where, again, from the students I spoke to at the few events I made it to at their ASW, weren't as narrowly focused on big law and had a broader sense of the field beyond Big Law.

2. Totally personal experience, but Columbia students seemed a bit immature compared to students at other ASWs, especially where money/financing/debt repayment was concerned.

3. As someone with experience at Columbia, I can confirm that the bureaucracy is awful across the university. This means that doing small things can be very time-consuming and may mean that important services (especially career related services) are inaccessible or inefficient.

4. Friends of mine who are law professors speak much more highly of the quality of the education at NYU vis-à-vis Columbia. That said, you'd obviously get a good education at Columbia, just not perhaps as good as at NYU.

5. You don't need to live in student housing, so the housing cost differential is not set in stone. Unless you are a K-JD or just out of school for a year or two, I would think finding your own apartment would be more desirable than living in a dorm anyways, and certainly can be cheaper and nicer than dorm living.

03152016 · Post by **03152016** » Mon Apr 20, 2015 11:27 am

nyu, 2% col inflation, 4.20% tuition inflation via lst
83,502 coa via nyu website, 16,667 scholly per year
net coa - 66,835, 69,992, 73,135
stafford loan principal+1.072 fee+6.21 interest via directloans: 24,902, 23,615, 22,328
gradplus principal+4.29 fee+7.21 interest via directloans: 59,645, 59,661, 59,366
6 month deferment
debt at repayment: 249,517 via lawschool22 calculator

cls, 2% col inflation, 4.56% tuition inflation, via lst
85,755 coa via cls website, 13,333 scholly per year
net coa - 72,422, 75,543, 78,881
stafford loan principal+1.072 fee+6.21 interest via directloans: 24,902, 23,615, 22,328
gradplus principal+4.29 fee+7.21 interest via directloans: 66,862, 66,715, 66,371
6 month deferment
debt at repayment: 270,719 via lawschool22 calculator

270,719-249,517=21,202 in grad plus
interest on 21,202 in grad plus loans on 10 year repayment, via grad plus calculator: 8,602
total difference: 29,804

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