Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Special forum where professionals are encouraged to help law school applicants, students, and graduates.

What movie should we all watch at the Spivey Consulting Firm Retreat?

The Town
24
13%
Interstellar
72
40%
Cabin in the Woods
44
24%
Logan
40
22%
 
Total votes: 180

rideagain
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Re: Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Postby rideagain » Tue Dec 19, 2017 7:19 pm

Eliminating standardized tests would be disgustingly pathetic by the ABA (yes I know that might seem like self serving from someone with a 170+). But seriously, what good argument is there for doing so?

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Postby MikeSpivey » Tue Dec 19, 2017 7:23 pm

AJordan wrote:Regarding your latest tweet, what are the odds of that chain actually happening? And if it does come to pass, as a splitter, should I just not even bother with law school anymore?


I wouldn't think it will happen with any schools on our radar. It's likely only to be utilized with school's fighting for financial survival, and even then this is just pure speculation by me. It's just something I hadn't seen considered before and I suspect a few schools may have it on their mind of their application/enrollment counts stay low.

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Postby MikeSpivey » Tue Dec 19, 2017 7:24 pm

AJordan wrote:Regarding your latest tweet, what are the odds of that chain actually happening? And if it does come to pass, as a splitter, should I just not even bother with law school anymore?


double post. Stupid slow internet at my mom's retirement home.
Last edited by MikeSpivey on Tue Dec 19, 2017 7:28 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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rowdy
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Re: Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Postby rowdy » Tue Dec 19, 2017 7:26 pm

rideagain wrote:Eliminating standardized tests would be disgustingly pathetic by the ABA (yes I know that might seem like self serving from someone with a 170+). But seriously, what good argument is there for doing so?


1) Few or no serious schools will go "test-free" because they still care about the predictive power of standardized tests for 1L grades and bar passage.
2) As long as USNWR takes tests into consideration, they're here to stay.

Unless you're going to an UR school that is just struggling to get butts in seats, you don't need to worry.

*scooped-ish by the man himself

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Postby MikeSpivey » Tue Dec 19, 2017 7:32 pm

rideagain wrote:Eliminating standardized tests would be disgustingly pathetic by the ABA (yes I know that might seem like self serving from someone with a 170+). But seriously, what good argument is there for doing so?


Well, that is likely or even highly likely coming, from the ABA side. I won't get into all the reasons they are recommending this but they have theirs. But that doesn't mean USNWR will care -- they would much rather have a test score. And the exceptional majority of law schools by all means will still take them, I suspect. So it will just open up some other creative means for a few schools.

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Postby MikeSpivey » Thu Dec 28, 2017 11:01 pm

Here's a sample transfer personal statement since it's becoming that time of year:

http://blog.spiveyconsulting.com/transf ... statement/

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ArthurTimothyRead
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Re: Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Postby ArthurTimothyRead » Fri Dec 29, 2017 11:53 pm

MikeSpivey wrote:Here's a sample transfer personal statement since it's becoming that time of year:

http://blog.spiveyconsulting.com/transf ... statement/


Thanks for the information, Mr. Spivey!


I'm curious, though; what do you think about the "why Princeton" section of that essay? While I really enjoyed the imagery and storytelling aspect of the piece, the aforementioned facet underwhelmed me a bit. Particularly with the concluding line, "rigorous course of study alongside peers who are there because it’s fun and because they love it," I perceived the rhetoric as a little generic. Considering the essay in a vacuum, I feel like you could sub in any T40+ school and the essay wouldn't read any differently.

In my eyes, the most compelling line in the essay is the penultimate concluding line: "I have always regarded Princeton Law to be an institution filled with like-minded people: individuals who love what they learn for the sake of learning." Even here, while the author is more specific in what kind of law school he/she wishes to attend, they do little to explain why they think Princeton law school matches that desire. Without any explanation, one could claim that any law school "vibes" of an anecdotal quality the author seeks.

Now to be clear, I have nothing but praise for this author and I completely realize that I'm not the admissions professional or successful student in this situation. I'm just hoping to get some insight because this successful essay seems to defy some of them conventional wisdom regarding giving specifics with "why-x"esque essays. Thanks! :)

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Postby MikeSpivey » Sat Dec 30, 2017 11:31 am

ArthurTimothyRead wrote:
MikeSpivey wrote:Here's a sample transfer personal statement since it's becoming that time of year:

http://blog.spiveyconsulting.com/transf ... statement/


Thanks for the information, Mr. Spivey!


I'm curious, though; what do you think about the "why Princeton" section of that essay? While I really enjoyed the imagery and storytelling aspect of the piece, the aforementioned facet underwhelmed me a bit. Particularly with the concluding line, "rigorous course of study alongside peers who are there because it’s fun and because they love it," I perceived the rhetoric as a little generic. Considering the essay in a vacuum, I feel like you could sub in any T40+ school and the essay wouldn't read any differently.

In my eyes, the most compelling line in the essay is the penultimate concluding line: "I have always regarded Princeton Law to be an institution filled with like-minded people: individuals who love what they learn for the sake of learning." Even here, while the author is more specific in what kind of law school he/she wishes to attend, they do little to explain why they think Princeton law school matches that desire. Without any explanation, one could claim that any law school "vibes" of an anecdotal quality the author seeks.

Now to be clear, I have nothing but praise for this author and I completely realize that I'm not the admissions professional or successful student in this situation. I'm just hoping to get some insight because this successful essay seems to defy some of them conventional wisdom regarding giving specifics with "why-x"esque essays. Thanks! :)


You read it carefully and bring up a good point. I would argue that the first paragraph too was a "why Princeton" (fyi the school was Harvard this was like 4 years ago so we can say it and said person was admitted -- not an easy feat] because it sets the tone of "I was naive to think the the best way to learn law was X, but actually it is Y (and Y can only be found at Harvard). And saying "I was naive in my though process" in and of itself is a nice thing to do. But more than anything, this essay did the most important thing really well -- it stood out from the masses. The masses just rave about HLS and they all blend in together and thus don't stand out.

I do concur with your assessment that the "Why Princeton" stand alone paragraph could have dug a bit deeper. So I'm impressed with your read. But I can't stress enough how if you writer the same ole same ole that everyone else does, you get no boost in admissions.

JosephFourier
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Re: Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Postby JosephFourier » Mon Jan 01, 2018 6:15 pm

....
Last edited by JosephFourier on Fri Jan 05, 2018 2:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

dan9257
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Re: Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Postby dan9257 » Tue Jan 02, 2018 8:13 am

Hi Spivey Consulting,

I submitted the app in October and was waitlisted at Cornell a few weeks ago. When is it ideal to send a LOCI?

Thank you and happy new year! :D

181plz
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Re: Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Postby 181plz » Wed Jan 03, 2018 11:22 pm

Hi Spivey,

Ive heard that you guys help applicants with scholarship negotiation. Are you open to being hired solely for that purpose?

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SCG_Anna
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Re: Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Postby SCG_Anna » Wed Jan 03, 2018 11:31 pm

181plz wrote:Hi Spivey,

Ive heard that you guys help applicants with scholarship negotiation. Are you open to being hired solely for that purpose?

Absolutely, this is something we do!

dan9257
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Re: Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Postby dan9257 » Thu Jan 04, 2018 3:39 am

I already submitted my applications but want to send a diversity statement. Will the adcom add it to my file and consider it even though the status shows my file is "under review"? Do you offer editing service for the diversity statement?

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KarenButtenbaum
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Re: Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Postby KarenButtenbaum » Thu Jan 04, 2018 10:45 pm

dan9257 wrote:I already submitted my applications but want to send a diversity statement. Will the adcom add it to my file and consider it even though the status shows my file is "under review"? Do you offer editing service for the diversity statement?


Many schools will consider additional materials before a decision is made, but each school has their own file review process so it is hard to say that all will or all won't. I'd say try to send it in if there is more info that you want them to know about you. Feel free to reach out to our info email to ask about particular services.

KB

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KarenButtenbaum
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Re: Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Postby KarenButtenbaum » Thu Jan 04, 2018 10:50 pm

(I did not quote since the question gave specific, potentially identifying info)

In general, I would suggest that you not be redundant of your PS in any additional essays for any law school, but you can cover the same general topic or theme by discussing a different aspect or angle of it.

KB

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maybeman
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Re: Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Postby maybeman » Thu Jan 04, 2018 10:57 pm

Hello!:)

Do you guys have any special insight into the relationship between GPA/LSAT scores and the timetable for getting a Harvard interview? I've looked through tls spreadsheets, and it seems like better numbers somewhat correlate with earlier JS1s, but not that cleanly.

I'm at 75th GPA with median LSAT, KJD. Should I be worried or is it far too early to fret about this for applicants with my numbers?

Thank you!!!

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KarenButtenbaum
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Re: Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Postby KarenButtenbaum » Thu Jan 04, 2018 11:06 pm

maybeman wrote:Hello!:)

Do you guys have any special insight into the relationship between GPA/LSAT scores and the timetable for getting a Harvard interview? I've looked through tls spreadsheets, and it seems like better numbers somewhat correlate with earlier JS1s, but not that cleanly.

I'm at 75th GPA with median LSAT, KJD. Should I be worried or is it far too early to fret about this for applicants with my numbers?

Thank you!!!


Far too early to fret! There are plenty of more interviews to come.

KB

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maybeman
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Re: Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Postby maybeman » Thu Jan 04, 2018 11:40 pm

KarenButtenbaum wrote:
maybeman wrote:Hello!:)

Do you guys have any special insight into the relationship between GPA/LSAT scores and the timetable for getting a Harvard interview? I've looked through tls spreadsheets, and it seems like better numbers somewhat correlate with earlier JS1s, but not that cleanly.

I'm at 75th GPA with median LSAT, KJD. Should I be worried or is it far too early to fret about this for applicants with my numbers?

Thank you!!!


Far too early to fret! There are plenty of more interviews to come.

KB

Thank you:)

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DerekMeeker
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Re: Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Postby DerekMeeker » Fri Jan 05, 2018 12:35 pm

dan9257 wrote:Hi Spivey Consulting,

I submitted the app in October and was waitlisted at Cornell a few weeks ago. When is it ideal to send a LOCI?

Thank you and happy new year! :D


Happy New Year! Since you got wait-listed early in the cycle, my advice is to send an LOCI by the end of this month/early Feb. Then send a second, brief restatement of interest (with any new info/updates) in early May, just before the time they will most likely begin reviewing the wait list.

Oneanddone?
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Re: Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Postby Oneanddone? » Fri Jan 05, 2018 9:19 pm

Hi everyone! Happy 2018!

Quick question: if I quit my job just so that I can be free for the months before law school (and travel the world, write my first novel, etc.) prior to receiving all of my LS decisions, should I send an update to each school where I applied?

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Postby MikeSpivey » Fri Jan 05, 2018 10:08 pm

Oneanddone? wrote:Hi everyone! Happy 2018!

Quick question: if I quit my job just so that I can be free for the months before law school (and travel the world, write my first novel, etc.) prior to receiving all of my LS decisions, should I send an update to each school where I applied?


I guess I can't speak for every school...but no. :)

spglasses
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Re: Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Postby spglasses » Sat Jan 06, 2018 12:27 am

Hi, Mike. Thanks for hosting this thread.

If the ABA does do away with the requirement for a standardized test, do you see that affecting the value of the LSAT in admissions? If so, how?

Oneanddone?
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Re: Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Postby Oneanddone? » Sat Jan 06, 2018 11:13 am

MikeSpivey wrote:
Oneanddone? wrote:Hi everyone! Happy 2018!

Quick question: if I quit my job just so that I can be free for the months before law school (and travel the world, write my first novel, etc.) prior to receiving all of my LS decisions, should I send an update to each school where I applied?


I guess I can't speak for every school...but no. :)

Yay! Thank you!!

dan9257
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Re: Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Postby dan9257 » Sun Jan 07, 2018 7:39 pm

DerekMeeker wrote:
dan9257 wrote:Hi Spivey Consulting,

I submitted the app in October and was waitlisted at Cornell a few weeks ago. When is it ideal to send a LOCI?

Thank you and happy new year! :D


Happy New Year! Since you got wait-listed early in the cycle, my advice is to send an LOCI by the end of this month/early Feb. Then send a second, brief restatement of interest (with any new info/updates) in early May, just before the time they will most likely begin reviewing the wait list.



Thank you so much! I will send a LOCI by the end of this month. I am also curious whether schools can retract the acceptance offer? I am accepted to one of my top choices but am retaking in Feb for 5th take (I know it sounds crazy but I chose to do it because even scoring 1-2 points higher would make a significant difference for me). If the worst scenario happened and I score even lower than the current score (and especially b/c it's a 5th take), can the school change their mind and retract the acceptance...?

Thank you

jimmyplayer601
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Re: Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Postby jimmyplayer601 » Sun Jan 07, 2018 8:06 pm

Will there be an update soon about number of applicants and lsat data of the applicant pool?




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