Themis July 2019 Forum

[jc9812]

Started a bit early due to job.

Is anyone reading the long outlines? They are so long and dense and I can't help but feel my time would be better spent practicing MBE questions.

[saxenaam]

I skim them for 1-2 hours, and take notes on the side. This way I'm active learning and helps me pay attention.

[Porkypots]

Just started today! Feels overwhelming but not enough at the same time

[cavalier1138]

If you didn't use Themis for the MPRE, you'll be tempted to skip the outlines. I wouldn't.

There's a lot of information that isn't covered in lectures that is in the outlines. Yes, you might pick that information up by repeatedly answering sample questions incorrectly, but it's much easier to actually slog through the outline up front and start to build up memorization of all the details that the examiners are going to put in the questions.

[AussieAustin]

I started today too. Are people making their own outlines as they go along? I find It so time consuming but others have suggested it’s better to create your own condensed outline.

[Porkypots]

I’ve only been watching the videos. I did skip reading the outline because it felt time consuming. Any suggestions of what else we should be doing?

[cavalier1138]

I’ve only been watching the videos. I did skip reading the outline because it felt time consuming. Any suggestions of what else we should be doing?

Probably the thing you aren't doing. Bar study is supposed to be time-consuming. If you just graduated, what else do you need to do?

[lolabear727]

I started today too. Are people making their own outlines as they go along? I find It so time consuming but others have suggested it’s better to create your own condensed outline.

Yes, I have my condensed MBE outlines from FL, so that is what I will be using. But that is what I did the first time in FL. Then I just studied those over and over over.

[RioGrandeLaw]

I'm using the flashcard tool to make flashcards from the outline. It's the only thing I can think to do, because if I just read the outline and watch videos, it won't stick. My school had an excellent bar strategies class that I took, and one thing they hammered in is that you've got to memorize hundreds of rules. I see no way to do this with Themis (or likely any other course) except by using the outline as a source of rules and then using some sort of memory tool to memorize them (my memory suuuuccckkksss..).

[AussieAustin]

I'm using the flashcard tool to make flashcards from the outline. It's the only thing I can think to do, because if I just read the outline and watch videos, it won't stick. My school had an excellent bar strategies class that I took, and one thing they hammered in is that you've got to memorize hundreds of rules. I see no way to do this with Themis (or likely any other course) except by using the outline as a source of rules and then using some sort of memory tool to memorize them (my memory suuuuccckkksss..).

I'm with you, my memory sucks. I did my initial law degree in Australia and we only did open book exams, so it's quite a shock to my brain to now have to memorize. I've purchased critical pass flash cards. If you can afford them, I'd recommend getting them. I don't have time to write/type out my own (plus it's incredibly boring) and I've found them really helpful so far. If I did my own, they would be all over the place and I'd end up spending so much time trying to perfect them. I just had an evidence final last week and they were super handy studying for that (and I passed!) so I figure I've gotten my monies worth already.

[cavalier1138]

I've been finding it's more helpful to create flashcards as I go through practice questions. The stock Themis flashcards cover a lot of the basic stuff, so I'm creating new ones for the weird exceptions and stock phrases the examiners use to signal specific things.

[RioGrandeLaw]

I'm with you, my memory sucks. I did my initial law degree in Australia and we only did open book exams, so it's quite a shock to my brain to now have to memorize. I've purchased critical pass flash cards. If you can afford them, I'd recommend getting them. I don't have time to write/type out my own (plus it's incredibly boring) and I've found them really helpful so far. If I did my own, they would be all over the place and I'd end up spending so much time trying to perfect them. I just had an evidence final last week and they were super handy studying for that (and I passed!) so I figure I've gotten my monies worth already.

I'm thinking about getting them, but I figure just the act of transcribing the outline into Themis flashcards helps, And I need all the help I can get.

[jc9812]

Re: the big outlines, yeah I'm gonna have to start reading them. I skipped/skimmed the Property one because it was so insanely long, and that turned out to not be a good idea. After a bunch of Property PQ sets done very carefully/with detailed notes on the explanations for both the right and wrong answers, I'm finally starting to get there. But the rest of them I'm going to just read through.

I think a bad habit of mine is just to want to get through stuff, and then rush it or not do it thoroughly enough. The % bar really doesn't help in this regard but whatever, it's my problem and I need to adjust going forward.

[kenken637]

Hello everyone, repeat taker here. Been following these bar forums since January. This is my first post, I figured we're all in this bar journey together, so here's my story, hopefully it'll help somebody study correctly from the start.

I Attempted the February 2018 NJ Bar and came up short by 18 points, with about 90% course completion. Self-assessed my Themis experience, although its a good program, here's what I'd recommend:

1) READ the outlines. I often skimmed through them, and Themis even recommends just getting an overall grasp on the terms and "familiarizing" yourself with the topics, etc. It was very frustrating getting so many wrong answers several weeks prior to the bar. Themis will insist you keep pushing until 65% of program completion or more... but I'd say it should be quality over quantity. There's no point of reaching such high completion percentage if you're unfamiliar with the rules that are found in the outlines, ESPECIALLY weeks prior to the exam.

2) I began preparing in Nov. 2018 for the February Bar. I had my study routine established, then around the 2nd or 3rd week of December, they inboxed all students with their recommended date to begin the program. I wish I would've received this message sooner. Again, I was so stuck on course completion, that I didn't really dedicate much time to digest what the program was teaching me. Their first message suggests reviewing at the end of every study day, and the lecture calendar provides time (weekends) for you to take a break from the program and review. From January 1 until the day before the bar i studied nonstop. Again, don't focus exclusively on course completion. There is a lot of material that you'll be exposed to, and if you can't take advantage of it, you're wasting your time. Also, try to take a day off weekly, at least for the first couple of weeks of preparation...give your brain some rest.

3) Don't confide 100% in your essay grader. He had me walking on clouds.. most of my essays were receiving 5-6 points. I was surprised to learn that I scored relatively low on the MEE. If you feel your essay grader is being to lenient, you should ask him/her to be stricter.

4) For every MBE question you get wrong, write down the rule. I began doing this 3 weeks prior to the bar and it helped me memorize the rule (someone recommended it on this site). I trusted themis's program too much and didn't think that note taking was too necessary, since they provided a final review outline and explained MBE pq's. When I reached out to them, worried that I was averaging 50-60% on MBE Practice Question's so late in the game, they recommended to keep pushing for course completion. Again, quality over quantity. With all my daily Themis assignments, I had no spare time for the quiz builder (great tool but barely took advantage of it), to strengthen my weaker subjects. I can't stress enough the importance of recognizing your study weaknesses early on rather than two weeks before the exam.

5) Trust me, studying for the bar is not something that you want to do for a second time. Although many of the subjects or practice sessions may be boring, just keep pushing forward until the exam. You don't want to doubt yourself or regret your study habits while taking your bar.

Good luck everyone!

[justanormalperson]

Hi,

What is the average percentage you guys are achieving for each MBE PQs so far? I am struggling to get 50% so far and that make me feel like I am not getting anywhere :/ Is anybody struggling the same thing?

[AussieAustin]

Hi,

What is the average percentage you guys are achieving for each MBE PQs so far? I am struggling to get 50% so far and that make me feel like I am not getting anywhere :/ Is anybody struggling the same thing?

I haven't done a lot of questions yet since I just stated this week. Yesterday I did the first lot of 34 contracts practice questions. I was so disappointed that I only got 38% (since I studied contracts in the Spring and considered myself very familiar with it). Turns out, I got 5 parol evidence questions wrong because of one small error in my thinking about the rule under the UCC. If it wasn't for that, I would have probably had over 50%. I needed chocolate after that result, but remembered that now I know what rule I was not getting right, so I should hopefully not get it wrong again. That's the aim of the game at this state. For me anyway.

[arc2222]

Does anyone have any advice for memorization (I am use to writing out/condensing outlines for topics- however this does not seem to be working for multiple choice questions- also I have never tried flashcards- how do people utilize those for memorization)? Thank you for the help in advance.

[fan1430]

Hi,

What is the average percentage you guys are achieving for each MBE PQs so far? I am struggling to get 50% so far and that make me feel like I am not getting anywhere :/ Is anybody struggling the same thing?

MBE Contracts & Sales
73% - finished
MBE Real Property
61% - done 4
MBE Torts
67% - done 2

I started a few weeks early. Good luck everyone!
For the Mbe, i use critical pass, in addition to themis. During the PQs I write down the rule for questions I missed. I also review the questions again a few days later, and try to answer them by thinking of the answer without looking at the answer choices. I wouldn't worry now though, as long as you are improving as you move to the later practice sets for the subject. Also, use the feature where you can see which topic in the subject is giving you issues. i was doing terrible in foreclosure, mortgages, and deeds for property. I studied those pretty intently one evening and that made a big difference for the most recent property PQ i did.

[nrthwst4now]

Are the Essay Model answers all perfect scores? I am just wondering if those examples are getting 6/6 and are the preferred length?

Also, I scored about 60%-65% in the Contracts MBE PQs.

[Dunnkirk85]

I think as long as you are in the suggested range for MBE questions at this point, you're OK. If you're deviating far from that goal consistently, then you probably need to sit down and memorize the rules. Contracts is tough because it's essentially two large sets of rules with the UCC and the fact patterns can be distracting from what the question is actually asking about if you don't know those rules. But I'm really glad that Themis starts off with Contract and Real Property so we have the entire summer to work on them

[Dunnkirk85]

Are the Essay Model answers all perfect scores? I am just wondering if those examples are getting 6/6 and are the preferred length?

Also, I scored about 60%-65% in the Contracts MBE PQs.

My understanding is that they are "model" answers. So, probably would be very high scoring. So far I seem to keep mentioning things that I don't need to talk about, and on a few I have definitely written too much. I wish I knew more about how this would affect my score on the exam

[cavalier1138]

Are the Essay Model answers all perfect scores? I am just wondering if those examples are getting 6/6 and are the preferred length?

Also, I scored about 60%-65% in the Contracts MBE PQs.

My understanding is that they are "model" answers. So, probably would be very high scoring. So far I seem to keep mentioning things that I don't need to talk about, and on a few I have definitely written too much. I wish I knew more about how this would affect my score on the exam

My guess is that writing more isn't an issue, as long as you're focusing on writing more about fact analysis. I've noticed that the model answers rarely give specifics, and I tend to be a little more expository when explaining the facts and why they should dictate a certain outcome. But these things are also designed to be handwritten, so it makes sense that the models are shorter.

[3pianists]

Joining the study group! I'm at Chicago, so finals week is just beginning and I haven't started bar study yet. This is fine, everything is fine, etc.

[Lancair]

Are the Essay Model answers all perfect scores? I am just wondering if those examples are getting 6/6 and are the preferred length?

Also, I scored about 60%-65% in the Contracts MBE PQs.

My understanding is that they are "model" answers. So, probably would be very high scoring. So far I seem to keep mentioning things that I don't need to talk about, and on a few I have definitely written too much. I wish I knew more about how this would affect my score on the exam

Feb '19 passer who studied with Themis. From my discussions with Themis, the model answers are 6/6 in their scoring scales, and an average to 3-4/6 will put you in a good position to pass. I got probably an average of close to 5/6 (mostly 4s and 5s and a couple of 6s), and I got in the 99th percentile for the essay section.

Don't stress about the essays. Near enough is good enough.

[justanormalperson]

Are the Essay Model answers all perfect scores? I am just wondering if those examples are getting 6/6 and are the preferred length?

Also, I scored about 60%-65% in the Contracts MBE PQs.

My understanding is that they are "model" answers. So, probably would be very high scoring. So far I seem to keep mentioning things that I don't need to talk about, and on a few I have definitely written too much. I wish I knew more about how this would affect my score on the exam

Feb '19 passer who studied with Themis. From my discussions with Themis, the model answers are 6/6 in their scoring scales, and an average to 3-4/6 will put you in a good position to pass. I got probably an average of close to 5/6 (mostly 4s and 5s and a couple of 6s), and I got in the 99th percentile for the essay section.

Don't stress about the essays. Near enough is good enough.

Congratulations for passing! Are the MBE questions on Themis pretty similar with the real Bar Exam? Do you have any advise on how to do well on the MBE?