Failed CA bar; thinking of going to a different state

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lawschoolgradz1

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Failed CA bar; thinking of going to a different state

Postby lawschoolgradz1 » Sun Nov 18, 2018 6:55 pm

Hi everyone!

Looks like I failed my third attempt at the California bar. Don't know my scores yet as those come in on Monday, but if I'm guessing its like my past two attempts, I'm having major issues dealing with the MBEs. I scored about 130ish last time for the MBE portion. I'm in the passing range for essays (both times). I'm just tired of having to study for this stupid test that I get so close to every time, and know that my MBE score would be passing in many different states in the country.

Any suggestions for taking the test in another state? How does it work? Can I still practice IN California (i.e. for a federal government agency or something having to do with federal law?)

Any help would be much appreciated!

Signed,
A tired law school graduate

FinallyPassedTheBar

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Re: Failed CA bar; thinking of going to a different state

Postby FinallyPassedTheBar » Sun Nov 18, 2018 7:16 pm

Did you use Adaptibar to study for the MBE?

In my opinion, the MBE can be "gamed" some what with certain review techniques. It's still very difficult, but at least subjective grading is taken out of the equation. Using Adaptibar, I increased my MBE from 120ish to 160ish (estimate)

Yes, you can get a legal job in CA with an out-of-state license, but it's very limited. I thought about that before, but I decided to to just stick with CA and passed in July 2017. Because from what I have read, the issue of not having a CA license will put you at a disadvantage during job interviews since you'll be competing against CA bared candidates. You'd need some other compelling attribute to put you ahead of them, like a JD from H/Y/S for example.

QContinuum

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Re: Failed CA bar; thinking of going to a different state

Postby QContinuum » Sun Nov 18, 2018 7:56 pm

lawschoolgradz1 wrote:Any suggestions for taking the test in another state? How does it work? Can I still practice IN California (i.e. for a federal government agency or something having to do with federal law?)

If you get admitted in another state but not CA, you'd be able to practice on a permanent basis in CA:
  • For the federal government.
  • As in-house counsel.
Basically, the main shortcomings are that you wouldn't be able to work for any law firm, and even for in-house positions you'll likely be at a disadvantage relative to CA-barred candidates.

If you really want to throw in the towel for CA, perhaps the better thing would be to get barred in another state, actually practice there for several years, then try to snag an in-house position in CA. You'd be much more attractive to companies as a non-CA-barred lawyer with actual legal experience than as a non-CA-barred lawyer with no legal experience.

Are you tied to CA for family reasons? Otherwise, CA's not the only fish in the sea. If you pass the UBE, you'd be all set in most every other legal market in the country, whether you want to go up the coast to Oregon or Washington, east to Arizona or Illinois, or all the way to New York: http://www.ncbex.org/exams/ube/

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rcharter1978

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Re: Failed CA bar; thinking of going to a different state

Postby rcharter1978 » Mon Nov 19, 2018 11:04 pm

lawschoolgradz1 wrote:Hi everyone!

Looks like I failed my third attempt at the California bar. Don't know my scores yet as those come in on Monday, but if I'm guessing its like my past two attempts, I'm having major issues dealing with the MBEs. I scored about 130ish last time for the MBE portion. I'm in the passing range for essays (both times). I'm just tired of having to study for this stupid test that I get so close to every time, and know that my MBE score would be passing in many different states in the country.

Any suggestions for taking the test in another state? How does it work? Can I still practice IN California (i.e. for a federal government agency or something having to do with federal law?)

Any help would be much appreciated!

Signed,
A tired law school graduate


Yes, I work in fed gov and other attorneys are barred in other states.

lawschoolgradz1

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Re: Failed CA bar; thinking of going to a different state

Postby lawschoolgradz1 » Thu Nov 22, 2018 12:35 am

FinallyPassedTheBar wrote:Did you use Adaptibar to study for the MBE?

In my opinion, the MBE can be "gamed" some what with certain review techniques. It's still very difficult, but at least subjective grading is taken out of the equation. Using Adaptibar, I increased my MBE from 120ish to 160ish (estimate)

Yes, you can get a legal job in CA with an out-of-state license, but it's very limited. I thought about that before, but I decided to to just stick with CA and passed in July 2017. Because from what I have read, the issue of not having a CA license will put you at a disadvantage during job interviews since you'll be competing against CA bared candidates. You'd need some other compelling attribute to put you ahead of them, like a JD from H/Y/S for example.



I religiously used Adaptibar and it increased my score drastically from the first to the second time, but only a tiny bit from February to July again. Care to share the tips and tricks you used to help you?

b290

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Re: Failed CA bar; thinking of going to a different state

Postby b290 » Sun Nov 25, 2018 8:50 am

FinallyPassedTheBar wrote:Did you use Adaptibar to study for the MBE?

In my opinion, the MBE can be "gamed" some what with certain review techniques. It's still very difficult, but at least subjective grading is taken out of the equation. Using Adaptibar, I increased my MBE from 120ish to 160ish (estimate)

Yes, you can get a legal job in CA with an out-of-state license, but it's very limited. I thought about that before, but I decided to to just stick with CA and passed in July 2017. Because from what I have read, the issue of not having a CA license will put you at a disadvantage during job interviews since you'll be competing against CA bared candidates. You'd need some other compelling attribute to put you ahead of them, like a JD from H/Y/S for example.

+1
I increased mine from 120ish to 140ish by Adaptibar. That was enough for me to get the score I needed. I found Adaptibar's extra tools to be very helpful.

lawschoolgradz1 wrote:Can I still practice IN California (i.e. for a federal government agency or something having to do with federal law?)


If I remember correctly, doesn't practicing as an attorney = admission? Admission to federal courts are determined by the district court rules. Problem is that all of the CA Fed Districts require current CA membership (or your passing the CA bar waiting to be sworn in) to be admitted into their bars. It is clearly displayed on all their pages:

CAED - http://www.caed.uscourts.gov/caednew/in ... admission/
CASD - https://www.casd.uscourts.gov/Attorneys ... /Home.aspx
CAND - https://www.cand.uscourts.gov/attorneys/admission
CACD - http://www.cacd.uscourts.gov/sites/defa ... 0/G-60.pdf

I'm not including "pro hac vice" admission, nor research/clerking positions. Only way I can think of to get around the above would be administrative courts, or the military (UCMJ).

FinallyPassedTheBar is right. If you really want to practice in CA, passing the bar is your best shot.

My $.02

QContinuum

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Re: Failed CA bar; thinking of going to a different state

Postby QContinuum » Sun Nov 25, 2018 1:55 pm

b290 wrote:If I remember correctly, doesn't practicing as an attorney = admission?

No; if OP gets admitted in another state but not CA, they'd be able to practice on a permanent basis in CA:
  • For the federal government.
  • As in-house counsel.
Basically, the main shortcomings are that OP wouldn't be able to work for any law firm, and even for in-house positions they'd likely be at a disadvantage relative to CA-barred candidates.

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rcharter1978

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Re: Failed CA bar; thinking of going to a different state

Postby rcharter1978 » Sun Nov 25, 2018 4:14 pm

In reading your post OP, I think it's reasonable to try another state just to get some confidence, but ultimately, you should get CA barred. It may just take any win after three losses to make you feel a little more confident.

At the same time though, I really think that it's probably easier to up your mbe score than it is to up your essay scores. So I think you're in a preferable position.

I understand the kerfuffle over adadptibar, but I liked it. It just seems like such a waste to let the MBE hold you back. Because it seems so much more objective and easier to fix.

However, as I said, I work in fed gov and there are non ca barred attorneys working there. But, they normally had quite a bit of experience before coming onto the job, so I don't know how easy it would be to get a job if you don't have a lot of practice experience and you're only barred in another state.

b290

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Re: Failed CA bar; thinking of going to a different state

Postby b290 » Mon Nov 26, 2018 6:14 pm

QContinuum wrote:
b290 wrote:If I remember correctly, doesn't practicing as an attorney = admission?

No; if OP gets admitted in another state but not CA, they'd be able to practice on a permanent basis in CA:
  • For the federal government.
  • As in-house counsel.
Basically, the main shortcomings are that OP wouldn't be able to work for any law firm, and even for in-house positions they'd likely be at a disadvantage relative to CA-barred candidates.

Thank you! You learn something new every day! :lol:

Again, thanks for the clarification! :D

My $.02

QContinuum

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Re: Failed CA bar; thinking of going to a different state

Postby QContinuum » Mon Nov 26, 2018 10:25 pm

b290 wrote:
QContinuum wrote:No; if OP gets admitted in another state but not CA, they'd be able to practice on a permanent basis in CA:
  • For the federal government.
  • As in-house counsel.
Basically, the main shortcomings are that OP wouldn't be able to work for any law firm, and even for in-house positions they'd likely be at a disadvantage relative to CA-barred candidates.

Thank you! You learn something new every day! :lol:

Again, thanks for the clarification! :D

My $.02

Thanks for the kind response. :)



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