THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION Forum

[Pajsa18]

Is everyone studying all MEE subjects or just the ones recommending by JD advising?

It's just so much info.

It goes without saying that it's impossible to predict.

But I will say this: the gain derived from studying all subjects (even if it's an information overload) is greater than the gain derived from excluding some subjects in order to strengthen others.

Or in other words: the detriment that could flow from excluding subjects from study is greater than the detriment that could flow from moderately knowing all subjects. (If that makes sense!?)

This is because the MEE is about general competence and ability to bullshit/IRAC/issue spot/apply facts, etc, rather than about getting it exactly right. I bullshitted two essays on the Feb 2018 MEE and still did really well.

The fact is that it's much more scary to get a question/topic that you have never studied, than it is to get a subject you only know superficially. In the former case, you're kinda fucked. In the latter you're gonna pass.

Moreover, your ability to memorize is better than you think. You should be able to learn all subjects to an adequate degree in order to pass, without sacrificing.

On the other hand, if you're literally out of time, then by all means stick to the JD advising recommendations because they have a decent record.

That makes total sense - thank you!

[dlrkgml]

Is it just me or do the mixed sets generally feel much easier than did the practice tests?

Maybe I just haven't gotten far enough on the mixed sets (only on 7), but I'm concerned I might be getting a skewed idea of how prepared I am based on my higher than average scores. I also finish with like 10+ minutes remaining, which never happened on any of the exams. Also the levels of difficulty that show mostly seem to indicate that the qs are in the green-range; that doesn't seem like it'll be representative of what the exam will be like...?

[fuuuuuuuuuu]

I feel the same way. I score 10%+ on the mixed sets than the practice tests. I typically finish the mixed sets with 30 minutes remaining.

Is it just me or do the mixed sets generally feel much easier than did the practice tests?

Maybe I just haven't gotten far enough on the mixed sets (only on 7), but I'm concerned I might be getting a skewed idea of how prepared I am based on my higher than average scores. I also finish with like 10+ minutes remaining, which never happened on any of the exams. Also the levels of difficulty that show mostly seem to indicate that the qs are in the green-range; that doesn't seem like it'll be representative of what the exam will be like...?

Edited for numerical typo.

[Findedeux]

Is it just me or do the mixed sets generally feel much easier than did the practice tests?

Maybe I just haven't gotten far enough on the mixed sets (only on 7), but I'm concerned I might be getting a skewed idea of how prepared I am based on my higher than average scores. I also finish with like 10+ minutes remaining, which never happened on any of the exams. Also the levels of difficulty that show mostly seem to indicate that the qs are in the green-range; that doesn't seem like it'll be representative of what the exam will be like...?

I agree they seem easier.

One some of them I get my average but on others I'm at about 90% which is way higher than my practice tests.

[unsweetened]

fyi mixed set 17 is the same for everyone, if people want to compare themselves some more

I thought it was more difficult than usual while doing it, but I came out with the same score that I have been testing at the past few mixed sets and same score as the simulated MBE Practice Test 3.

I didn't think it was more or less difficult, but I definitely had some facepalm moments when I went back through the questions to see what I got wrong. I scored significantly lower on set 17 than I did with several of the immediately proceeding sets and I think some of it just has to do with fatigue/brain fade. About half of the problems I got wrong were ones where I initially had the right answer, over-thought it, and selected an incorrect answer.

[BlueLaw11]

CA folks:

I just did the Community Property essay involving stock options and the model answer spends a full page applying the "Hug formula" and the "Nelson formula." These were definitely not in the lectures and I have never seen them before, which is freaking me out.

What formulas have you all memorized? Want to make sure I'm not missing anything important. I have only memorized Pereira and Van Camp thus far.

[dabigchina]

CA folks:

I just did the Community Property essay involving stock options and the model answer spends a full page applying the "Hug formula" and the "Nelson formula." These were definitely not in the lectures and I have never seen them before, which is freaking me out.

What formulas have you all memorized? Want to make sure I'm not missing anything important. I have only memorized Pereira and Van Camp thus far.

I memorized Hug and Nelson because the outline said they come up often (even though the lecture basically didn't mention them)

The two methods of determining goodwill are important, though they aren't formulas.

If it makes you feel any better, I memorized Nelson and still somehow fucked up the math for it on that essay.

Edit: incidentally, all of themis's CA specific lectures were absolutely awful.

[BlueLaw11]

CA folks:

I just did the Community Property essay involving stock options and the model answer spends a full page applying the "Hug formula" and the "Nelson formula." These were definitely not in the lectures and I have never seen them before, which is freaking me out.

What formulas have you all memorized? Want to make sure I'm not missing anything important. I have only memorized Pereira and Van Camp thus far.

I memorized Hug and Nelson because the outline said they come up often (even though the lecture basically didn't mention them)

The two methods of determining goodwill are important, though they aren't formulas.

If it makes you feel any better, I memorized Nelson and still somehow fucked up the math for it on that essay.

Edit: incidentally, all of themis's CA specific lectures were absolutely awful.

Thanks for the response! I totally agree; the only good CA lecturer was the woman who did Evidence. The rest were terrible.

Special shoutout to the Community Property lecturer for being both horrible and incredibly creepy... Can't wait to leave a review for that

[Omerta]

The United States Supreme Court, overruling Roe v. Wade and Planned Parenthood v. Casey, held that women do not have a constitutional right to abortion. Congress responded by passing the Abortion Rights Restoration Act (ARRA), which restored the essential holdings of Roe and Casey by prohibiting any government from unduly burdening a woman’s exercise of the constitutional right to abortion. In a constitutional challenge to the validity of ARRA, is a federal court likely to strike down the act?

Answers:

No, because Congress had a rational basis for concluding that abortions are a commercial activity that, considered in the aggregate, substantially affect interstate commerce.
No, because Congress is defining constitutional rights more expansively than the Supreme Court, not restricting them.
Correct Answer: Yes, because Congress is not remedying the violation of a judicially recognized constitutional right, but rather is attempting to create a new constitutional right.
You Selected: Yes, because it violates the constitutional principle of federalism.

Answer choice D is incorrect because, acting pursuant to Section 5 of the Fourteenth Amendment, Congress has the power to enforce rights created by the Fourteenth Amendment (as interpreted by the Supreme Court) against the states.

Can someone explain this one? The prompt specifically lists the challenge as a constitutional challenge in a world where there's no constitutional right to an abortion. If there's no constitutional right to an abortion, then how may Congress enforce against the states a right that doesn't exist through the Fourteenth Amendment? Obviously, Congress can effectively reverse a SCOTUS decision on statutory interpretation, but how does Congress have the authority to reverse a SCOTUS decision on what is and is not a constitutional right?

[Pajsa18]

So . . . random, but I have 3 children and a husband, and every time I start to lose steam, I turn on ID, I Bet My Life on You . . . Also It’s Time ... Just thought I’d pass it along - seems to get me back in check - thank for listening

[EncyclopediaOrange]

The United States Supreme Court, overruling Roe v. Wade and Planned Parenthood v. Casey, held that women do not have a constitutional right to abortion. Congress responded by passing the Abortion Rights Restoration Act (ARRA), which restored the essential holdings of Roe and Casey by prohibiting any government from unduly burdening a woman’s exercise of the constitutional right to abortion. In a constitutional challenge to the validity of ARRA, is a federal court likely to strike down the act?

Answers:

No, because Congress had a rational basis for concluding that abortions are a commercial activity that, considered in the aggregate, substantially affect interstate commerce.
No, because Congress is defining constitutional rights more expansively than the Supreme Court, not restricting them.
Correct Answer: Yes, because Congress is not remedying the violation of a judicially recognized constitutional right, but rather is attempting to create a new constitutional right.
You Selected: Yes, because it violates the constitutional principle of federalism.

Answer choice D is incorrect because, acting pursuant to Section 5 of the Fourteenth Amendment, Congress has the power to enforce rights created by the Fourteenth Amendment (as interpreted by the Supreme Court) against the states.

Can someone explain this one? The prompt specifically lists the challenge as a constitutional challenge in a world where there's no constitutional right to an abortion. If there's no constitutional right to an abortion, then how may Congress enforce against the states a right that doesn't exist through the Fourteenth Amendment? Obviously, Congress can effectively reverse a SCOTUS decision on statutory interpretation, but how does Congress have the authority to reverse a SCOTUS decision on what is and is not a constitutional right?

You’re misreading the correct answer. Your analysis is correct. 14A Section 5 allows the enforcement of constitutional rights as defined by scotus, but cannot create new ones.

[Wendelsr]

A defendant was charged with assault after being involved in a barroom fight in the middle of the day. The defendant admitted to being at the bar at the time of the fight, but claimed that he was only a bystander. At the defendant’s trial, the prosecutor intended to call the defendant’s former employer. The employer was to testify that the defendant had been fired and was not working at the time of his arrest. The defendant objected to the employer’s testimony.

How should the court rule?

A. Overrule the objection, because it tends to make it more likely that the defendant was at the bar in the middle of the day and involved in the fight.
B. Overrule the objection, because the employer will be testifying based on his personal knowledge of the defendant’s employment.
C. Sustain the objection on the basis that the employer’s testimony is unfairly prejudicial.
D. Sustain the objection on the basis that the employer’s testimony is not probative of a material fact.

Answer is C, I don't really see how this makes sense. I agree that C would be a right answer, but I felt like D was *more correct* since he admitted to being at the bar. It seems like a stretch? 80% was with me on this.

The explanation:

The fact that the defendant was unemployed at the time of his arrest makes it more likely that he was at the bar (and therefore potentially involved in the fight). However, under FRE 403, relevant evidence may be excluded if its probative value is substantially outweighed by the danger of unfair prejudice. Here, the employer’s testimony includes the fact that the employee was fired. This fact is highly prejudicial, as it would tend to discredit the defendant in the minds of the jury. Moreover, the probative value of the employer’s testimony is somewhat minimal. Accordingly, even though it is relevant, the employer’s testimony should not be admitted. Answer choice D is incorrect because the employer’s testimony regarding the defendant’s unemployment is relevant to whether the defendant was present at the bar (and therefore potentially involved in the fight). The mere fact that the defendant has stipulated to his presence at the bar does not automatically preclude the prosecution from presenting the employer’s testimony, which also suggests the defendant was at the bar. However, such testimony should be excluded because it is unfairly prejudicial.

[mike241]

today, i did a second "simulated" MBE by using practice exam #4 and the 100-question mixed practice set. was able to manage a 75% on practice exam #4 and a 74% on the mixed practice set (which i found to be a lot harder because i was making quite a bit of educated guesses--this is usually the case, right? i mean you do the best you can to narrow down some of the answer choices?). i'm happy with this result, especially because i average about a 64% on the mixed practice sets... i managed a 133 on the simulated MBE from a few weeks ago.

i imagine that Themis would offer practice exams that are representative of the MBE

i hope that this is enough to pass the MBE, and maybe even with a little cushion for the state portion.

[MRSP]

today, i did a second "simulated" MBE by using practice exam #4 and the 100-question mixed practice set. was able to manage a 75% on practice exam #4 and a 74% on the mixed practice set (which i found to be a lot harder because i was making quite a bit of educated guesses--this is usually the case, right? i mean you do the best you can to narrow down some of the answer choices?). i'm happy with this result, especially because i average about a 64% on the mixed practice sets... i managed a 133 on the simulated MBE from a few weeks ago.

i imagine that Themis would offer practice exams that are representative of the MBE

i hope that this is enough to pass the MBE, and maybe even with a little cushion for the state portion.

I remember Neil (the original poster for this thread who always comes through with great advice for us) saying that we should expect a bump on the actual MBE so if you are already scoring in the 70's you should definitely have a cushion and feel pretty good I would say

[jcwest]

today, i did a second "simulated" MBE by using practice exam #4 and the 100-question mixed practice set. was able to manage a 75% on practice exam #4 and a 74% on the mixed practice set (which i found to be a lot harder because i was making quite a bit of educated guesses--this is usually the case, right? i mean you do the best you can to narrow down some of the answer choices?). i'm happy with this result, especially because i average about a 64% on the mixed practice sets... i managed a 133 on the simulated MBE from a few weeks ago.

i imagine that Themis would offer practice exams that are representative of the MBE

i hope that this is enough to pass the MBE, and maybe even with a little cushion for the state portion.

I just took PT4 myself and got a 76%. I have averaged 69% over my last 8 Mixed Sets. I got a 60% average on PT3 (I have been studying A LOT since then)

I did not find it that easy to be honest. I did process of elimination on about 10 and picked between two on about 7. Maybe I'm exaggerating but I will say... on the rest outside of this made up combined number of "17" I could pick the correct answer in seconds. Really hoping I can do this well come game day because I'm likely going to bomb these essays.

[MRSP]

today, i did a second "simulated" MBE by using practice exam #4 and the 100-question mixed practice set. was able to manage a 75% on practice exam #4 and a 74% on the mixed practice set (which i found to be a lot harder because i was making quite a bit of educated guesses--this is usually the case, right? i mean you do the best you can to narrow down some of the answer choices?). i'm happy with this result, especially because i average about a 64% on the mixed practice sets... i managed a 133 on the simulated MBE from a few weeks ago.

i imagine that Themis would offer practice exams that are representative of the MBE

i hope that this is enough to pass the MBE, and maybe even with a little cushion for the state portion.

I just took PT4 myself and got a 76%. I have averaged 69% over my last 8 Mixed Sets. I got a 60% average on PT3 (I have been studying A LOT since then)

I did not find it that easy to be honest. I did process of elimination on about 10 and picked between two on about 7. Maybe I'm exaggerating but I will say... on the rest outside of this made up combined number of "17" I could pick the correct answer in seconds. Really hoping I can do this well come game day because I'm likely going to bomb these essays.

I feel the same about the essays! What have you been doing for last minute MEE prep? Are you pretty good on the non MBE subjects material? I am going through and trying to issue spot and rule drop (basic outline) as many as I can, especially the JD advising predictions. I'm really worried though...

[White Dwarf]

At least in NY, if you can hit median on the MBE, you only have to score in the ~19th percentile on the MEE/MPT portion (see: https://i.imgur.com/2qMuKgV.png).

That's 19th percentile in a group that includes 15-20% foreign/non-ABA law school grads and re-takers who will fail again. As long as you don't panic and have some idea what you're talking about, you will be fine.

[dabigchina]

At least in NY, if you can hit median on the MBE, you only have to score in the ~19th percentile on the MEE/MPT portion (see: https://i.imgur.com/2qMuKgV.png).

That's 19th percentile in a group that includes 15-20% foreign/non-ABA law school grads and re-takers who will fail again. As long as you don't panic and have some idea what you're talking about, you will be fine.

Speaking as a Californian: I hate you New Yorkers for having such an easy bar exam

[unsweetened]

I have gotten to the point where I get to an easy question and I am totally overthinking everything, be it MBE or MEE.
I got hit with an MEE question that basically asked "how do you get evidence from a witness in a civil case" and I panicked, went blank, then started thinking in circles. The same answer was basically "you engage in discovery, which can be done with written and oral depositions." Holy crap I feel fried right now.

[jcwest]

today, i did a second "simulated" MBE by using practice exam #4 and the 100-question mixed practice set. was able to manage a 75% on practice exam #4 and a 74% on the mixed practice set (which i found to be a lot harder because i was making quite a bit of educated guesses--this is usually the case, right? i mean you do the best you can to narrow down some of the answer choices?). i'm happy with this result, especially because i average about a 64% on the mixed practice sets... i managed a 133 on the simulated MBE from a few weeks ago.

i imagine that Themis would offer practice exams that are representative of the MBE

i hope that this is enough to pass the MBE, and maybe even with a little cushion for the state portion.

I just took PT4 myself and got a 76%. I have averaged 69% over my last 8 Mixed Sets. I got a 60% average on PT3 (I have been studying A LOT since then)

I did not find it that easy to be honest. I did process of elimination on about 10 and picked between two on about 7. Maybe I'm exaggerating but I will say... on the rest outside of this made up combined number of "17" I could pick the correct answer in seconds. Really hoping I can do this well come game day because I'm likely going to bomb these essays.

I feel the same about the essays! What have you been doing for last minute MEE prep? Are you pretty good on the non MBE subjects material? I am going through and trying to issue spot and rule drop (basic outline) as many as I can, especially the JD advising predictions. I'm really worried though...

Aha, I would not say "pretty good" on the non MBE subjects. I forget basic stuff all the time. Its kind of pathetic.

Theres about.... 4 subjects I'll be reviewing all at once... in a two hour span tomorrow morning. You can probably guess what they are and I'll just have to take that gamble because my mind is too full as it is.

I'm honestly going to spend a lot of time reading ALL the sample essays the next three days. I mean... yeah... I saw those MEE predictions... and I bet the bar examiners have too. 11/12 can't be making them too happy, I'd imagine. I'm going to review everything and I'll probably give those 6 or 7 subjects the twice over because why not. At least 3 of them have gotta make the cut. Civ Pro and Con Law at the very least for sure.

We'll see man. Although I don't think it means much at all, at least we didn't score under 60% on PT4. Oh boy. I'd probably start crying in the fetal position.

[Auxilio]

This might be the most equal division of answers I've seen so far on an MBE question. And correct answer still managed to be the least chosen.

Also, just echoing the above "fuck you" to non-CA takers and your silly MEE

[Lurker123]

I have gotten to the point where I get to an easy question and I am totally overthinking everything, be it MBE or MEE.
I got hit with an MEE question that basically asked "how do you get evidence from a witness in a civil case" and I panicked, went blank, then started thinking in circles. The same answer was basically "you engage in discovery, which can be done with written and oral depositions." Holy crap I feel fried right now.

I could not agree more. I'm so skeptical of easy questions.

I pretty much have been trying to tell myself to trust the base of knowledge I've built the last couple weeks and dumb down these questions unless they call for more critical thought. Really don't want to leave any free points on the board come exam day but also don't want to get tricked into a trap answer on a moderate - difficult question. Tough balancing act.

[gasfard]

At least in NY, if you can hit median on the MBE, you only have to score in the ~19th percentile on the MEE/MPT portion (see: https://i.imgur.com/2qMuKgV.png).

That's 19th percentile in a group that includes 15-20% foreign/non-ABA law school grads and re-takers who will fail again. As long as you don't panic and have some idea what you're talking about, you will be fine.

I keep looking at that graph every day

[deacon]

At least in NY, if you can hit median on the MBE, you only have to score in the ~19th percentile on the MEE/MPT portion (see: https://i.imgur.com/2qMuKgV.png).

That's 19th percentile in a group that includes 15-20% foreign/non-ABA law school grads and re-takers who will fail again. As long as you don't panic and have some idea what you're talking about, you will be fine.

Okay my brain is fried right now b/c of all wills and trusts sh*ts ,so I didn’t get it to be honest. If we are scoring in the 65th percentile on the MBE, we need at least the 19th percentile of the essay portion. am I correct?

[midtrains]

I have gotten to the point where I get to an easy question and I am totally overthinking everything, be it MBE or MEE.
I got hit with an MEE question that basically asked "how do you get evidence from a witness in a civil case" and I panicked, went blank, then started thinking in circles. The same answer was basically "you engage in discovery, which can be done with written and oral depositions." Holy crap I feel fried right now.

I just did a civ pro one with literally two questions: does the court have personal jx, and if it does, does it have subject matter jx. I assumed there was some kind of trick and spent too long looking for it. There was no trick.