NATIONAL MBE MEAN = 132.775 WHAT IS GOING ON AT THE NCBE??

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DrainTheNCBEswamp

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NATIONAL MBE MEAN = 132.775 WHAT IS GOING ON AT THE NCBE??

Postby DrainTheNCBEswamp » Fri Apr 13, 2018 4:09 pm

I'm sorry, but the quality of students is NOT getting that much worse. Even if you aren't as "intelligent," three years of law school and a bar prep course should make you pass the bar, or at least come close. This average is ridiculous and it is obvious to me that the NCBE either doesn't know how to scale, or is intentionally making the exam extremely difficult.

I took the practice OPE's and was scoring between 68% and 71%. I haven't got my score yet but I walked out of that test completely shocked. Now that I see this mean score, I know that my gut feeling about that test was right.

When will people start saying something? Dear NCBE, do you want to pay my loans for me???

Beanboi

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Re: NATIONAL MBE MEAN = 132.775 WHAT IS GOING ON AT THE NCBE??

Postby Beanboi » Fri Apr 13, 2018 4:23 pm

I’m in IL, so I don’t know my score, only that I passed ( only time I’ve taken it was feb 18). I honestly felt like shit after morning and afternoon. I felt like shit after the “exams” I did with Themis too :?

DrainTheNCBEswamp

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Re: NATIONAL MBE MEAN = 132.775 WHAT IS GOING ON AT THE NCBE??

Postby DrainTheNCBEswamp » Fri Apr 13, 2018 4:52 pm

Congrats on passing! IL requires a 132 I believe so the national current mean is right on par. Many states, however, require a few points above 132 so the national current mean is basically a failing score in those states. Crazy.

Beanboi

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Re: NATIONAL MBE MEAN = 132.775 WHAT IS GOING ON AT THE NCBE??

Postby Beanboi » Fri Apr 13, 2018 5:49 pm

I think for the perfect split it is 133. I was definitely nervous because I graduated 5 years ago and life happened and I’ve been a stay at home Mom for this time. This whole test feels like such a gross psychological mind game :shock:

ehleez

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Re: NATIONAL MBE MEAN = 132.775 WHAT IS GOING ON AT THE NCBE??

Postby ehleez » Sat Apr 14, 2018 9:57 am

So, is this something someone in Florida who only took the MBE and needs a 136 to pass should be panicking about? :cry:

Chaucer1343

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Re: NATIONAL MBE MEAN = 132.775 WHAT IS GOING ON AT THE NCBE??

Postby Chaucer1343 » Sat Apr 14, 2018 10:44 am

Where is this statistic from?

MissT

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Re: NATIONAL MBE MEAN = 132.775 WHAT IS GOING ON AT THE NCBE??

Postby MissT » Sat Apr 14, 2018 11:56 am

Chaucer1343 wrote:Where is this statistic from?


The Pennsylvania Board of Law Examiners.

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SilvermanBarPrep

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Re: NATIONAL MBE MEAN = 132.775 WHAT IS GOING ON AT THE NCBE??

Postby SilvermanBarPrep » Sat Apr 14, 2018 3:43 pm

Mean doesn't tell us too much about any individual score. For example, Florida requires a 136, and some may see that 132 mean and become nervous. But mean is just the total points scored by all test takers divided by the number of test takers. I'm certainly not saying that this statistic doesn't tell us anything, but when it comes to any individual test taker it tells us very little. If every student scored a 132, we'd have a mean of 132, but if half the students scored a 140 and half scored a 124 we'd also have a mean of 132. And countless other combinations.

So, don't panic.

Sean (Silverman Bar Exam Tutoring)

Guccifer91

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Re: NATIONAL MBE MEAN = 132.775 WHAT IS GOING ON AT THE NCBE??

Postby Guccifer91 » Sat Apr 14, 2018 9:52 pm

SilvermanBarPrep wrote:Mean doesn't tell us too much about any individual score. For example, Florida requires a 136, and some may see that 132 mean and become nervous. But mean is just the total points scored by all test takers divided by the number of test takers. I'm certainly not saying that this statistic doesn't tell us anything, but when it comes to any individual test taker it tells us very little. If every student scored a 132, we'd have a mean of 132, but if half the students scored a 140 and half scored a 124 we'd also have a mean of 132. And countless other combinations.

So, don't panic.

Sean (Silverman Bar Exam Tutoring)


TLDR: bank on there being more idiots taking the bar these days

Guccifer91

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Re: NATIONAL MBE MEAN = 132.775 WHAT IS GOING ON AT THE NCBE??

Postby Guccifer91 » Sat Apr 14, 2018 10:04 pm

SilvermanBarPrep wrote:Mean doesn't tell us too much about any individual score. For example, Florida requires a 136, and some may see that 132 mean and become nervous. But mean is just the total points scored by all test takers divided by the number of test takers. I'm certainly not saying that this statistic doesn't tell us anything, but when it comes to any individual test taker it tells us very little. If every student scored a 132, we'd have a mean of 132, but if half the students scored a 140 and half scored a 124 we'd also have a mean of 132. And countless other combinations.

So, don't panic.

Sean (Silverman Bar Exam Tutoring)


I’d say it tells us enough to panic if panicking is something we do.

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Re: NATIONAL MBE MEAN = 132.775 WHAT IS GOING ON AT THE NCBE??

Postby TNLawMan » Mon Apr 16, 2018 11:12 am

I'm in TN, so we don't know our exact scores If we pass, but I did the NCBE score advisory and estimated that I scored somewhere between 145-150 (could waive into MN (requires 145), but couldn't waive into ND (requires 150). But I agree, the MBE was difficult. However, I can't imagine that students are any worse than they've been; the problem lies in the fact that the test has likely been made more difficult, overall.

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Re: NATIONAL MBE MEAN = 132.775 WHAT IS GOING ON AT THE NCBE??

Postby pfunkera » Mon Apr 16, 2018 11:35 am

I have a problem with people paying all that money for law school and less then half of them passing the exam in some states. I realize these are repeat takers, but someone should look into this. There should be some sort of standard pass rate averaged over a few years that a law school must meet or they lose accreditation. The passing rates for first time takers within 6 months of graduation should be over 80% IMHO. I realize there is declining application numbers at some schools but I doubt this is merely a result of the student pool overall being weaker or students not preparing for the exam. Put the pressure on Law Schools to teach their students to pass the bar exam and things may change.

hopeful70%

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Re: NATIONAL MBE MEAN = 132.775 WHAT IS GOING ON AT THE NCBE??

Postby hopeful70% » Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:29 pm

@pfunkera. I am scheduled to take the patent bar in seven days. Is there anyway I can send you a pm to ask a few questions so long as they do not violate the confidentiality agreement?

hopeful70%

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Re: NATIONAL MBE MEAN = 132.775 WHAT IS GOING ON AT THE NCBE??

Postby hopeful70% » Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:30 pm

@pfunkera. I am scheduled to take the patent bar in seven days. Is there anyway I can send you a pm to ask a few questions so long as they do not violate the confidentiality agreement?

pfunkera

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Re: NATIONAL MBE MEAN = 132.775 WHAT IS GOING ON AT THE NCBE??

Postby pfunkera » Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:51 pm

hopeful70% wrote:@pfunkera. I am scheduled to take the patent bar in seven days. Is there anyway I can send you a pm to ask a few questions so long as they do not violate the confidentiality agreement?


sure

Cati

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Re: NATIONAL MBE MEAN = 132.775 WHAT IS GOING ON AT THE NCBE??

Postby Cati » Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:13 pm

Its all a money making machine.
The Bar
The review courses
Of course they dont want you to pass.

hopeful70%

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Re: NATIONAL MBE MEAN = 132.775 WHAT IS GOING ON AT THE NCBE??

Postby hopeful70% » Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:19 pm

@pfunkera.
I joined this forum today. I do not see an option to send you a pm. Please advise if you are aware of a way that I can send a pm.
I was not aware of PLI prior to purchasing another study program.
I completed about 400 practice questions.
I feel ok about my final outline and my ability to search the MPEP. However, I know that I may not have time to search for answers.
You mentioned that the December 2017 exam focused on AIA opposed to pre-AIA. I would really appreciate any other advice to follow during my last few days of study.
Thank you so much!!

pfunkera

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Re: NATIONAL MBE MEAN = 132.775 WHAT IS GOING ON AT THE NCBE??

Postby pfunkera » Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:58 pm

hopeful70% wrote:@pfunkera.
I joined this forum today. I do not see an option to send you a pm. Please advise if you are aware of a way that I can send a pm.
I was not aware of PLI prior to purchasing another study program.
I completed about 400 practice questions.
I feel ok about my final outline and my ability to search the MPEP. However, I know that I may not have time to search for answers.
You mentioned that the December 2017 exam focused on AIA opposed to pre-AIA. I would really appreciate any other advice to follow during my last few days of study.
Thank you so much!!


sorry for the unrelated topic to the OP.

The patent bar exam that I took was almost completely focused on AIA and not pre-AIA. I cannot guarantee that will be the case for you but they mentioned that in the PLI course too that the exam will focus on AIA. Probably the most important thing is knowing where to look in the MPEP - all the answers are there but not enough time to spend time trying to figure out where the answer is. It seemed like the questions on the actual exam were MUCH longer on average than the practice questions I did. I finished both sessions, but did not have much time to spare. I would say there were at least 5 repeat questions that I recognized. You probably don't have the time now, but I basically memorized about 300-400 past exam questions so I could save myself 20 minutes on the exam if they came up. I answered the repeat questions in about 10 seconds each. Many of the questions on specific obvious, anticipation, §101 eligibility facts come directly from the MPEP or supplemental guidances. If you have time, you can try to searchthe relevant MPEP chapter to find discussion of that case in the MPEP by using a specific keyword from the question.

Reissues, appeals, ex-parte reexams were tested heavily along with chapter 2100.

When you search a keyword - put a space after particular section references (ex - cfr "1.116 "). Also, if you search and get to the relevant section. If you search again - it will search from that section forward so an initial search to get to the right section followed by a term search got me the right answer a few times.

Good luck - at least if you don't pass, you can retake it in 30 days unlike the regular bar exam.

DrainTheNCBEswamp

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Re: NATIONAL MBE MEAN = 132.775 WHAT IS GOING ON AT THE NCBE??

Postby DrainTheNCBEswamp » Tue Apr 17, 2018 9:15 am

Didn't pass the MBE. Again, I was averaging in the high 60's on adaptibar. Can those who did well on the MBE give me any advice on review courses/materials they recommend/used for this MBE? Any other advice? I am only talking the MBE as I passed my state portion already. Some people have also told me to retake the state portion to get the benefit of the average but I just don't think that is a good idea..

Any advice is greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

DrainTheNCBEswamp

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Re: NATIONAL MBE MEAN = 132.775 WHAT IS GOING ON AT THE NCBE??

Postby DrainTheNCBEswamp » Tue Apr 17, 2018 9:32 am

ehleez wrote:So, is this something someone in Florida who only took the MBE and needs a 136 to pass should be panicking about? :cry:


I was in the same boat as you and didn't pass the MBE. Wondering if taking both parts would have been a better idea. Hope you passed.

ehleez

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Re: NATIONAL MBE MEAN = 132.775 WHAT IS GOING ON AT THE NCBE??

Postby ehleez » Wed Apr 18, 2018 8:08 am

DrainTheNCBEswamp wrote:
ehleez wrote:So, is this something someone in Florida who only took the MBE and needs a 136 to pass should be panicking about? :cry:


I was in the same boat as you and didn't pass the MBE. Wondering if taking both parts would have been a better idea. Hope you passed.



I’m so sorry you didn’t pass. Thankfully, I did...and have been crying ugly tears for an entire 2 days now. I’m really interested to see my numbers, as I was convinced I hadn’t passed and that the MBE this time around was impossible.

I actually worked with Sean Silverman, who coincidentally posted above in this thread...I just noticed! Hey Sean!
He is so knowledgeable, patient, and helpful, and I am so grateful to have been able to have studied with him. I took the bar 3.5 times. Passed Florida portion on my #3, and MBE on #3.5. I highly recommend that you contact Sean and see about working with him. Good luck!!

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Re: NATIONAL MBE MEAN = 132.775 WHAT IS GOING ON AT THE NCBE??

Postby b290 » Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:23 am

DrainTheNCBEswamp wrote:Didn't pass...

That sucks! :( I agree with you. The less you have to worry about the better. Especially since you’d only be studying for the MBE, you can get well above 136. Also, less subjects to study, and an extra day for studying? Yeah, MBE-only please.

Passing the state portion means you know your stuff. You also want to minimize why you’re getting questions wrong. The 3 main reasons why people get questions wrong: knowledge, timing, & fatigue. I’ll address the latter two:

Timing: The MBE allows for 1:48 per question. You want to get your time well under this. The point isn’t to race through, but to minimize the time you spend on questions you’ll get right and save it for when you get that 3 paragraph Property/Civ Pro question (that most will get wrong).

How I used it: With practice, I got my time down to about 1:15/question. On exam day, I was able finish, with taking breaks, and going over some questions - all before the 15 min mark.

Fatigue: Another overlooked thing is fatigue (mental and physical). That has two common sources: sleep & dehydration. The sleep thing’s obvious. When you’re dehydrated, you’ll get tired. Tired = you get questions wrong. If you’re getting enough daily water (the recommended amount is half your body weight in fl oz) you will not need caffeine.

A suggestion for combating mental fatigue: pick a number of questions you’ll do at a time and stick with it. If you feel like doing more, do another multiple of the number. The point of this is to train yourself to be used to it, because that’s what you’ll do on exam day.

How I did it: I picked 20 as “my number” Did my questions in sets of 20 for practice. On exam day, I did that amount and took a break/got up/got water/used the restroom, and repeated. That kept my mind fresh and focused on the next 20. Getting up also got the blood going.

A lot of your fellow test-takers will be tired, hungry, and worried. Some will not finish and will have to guess their last 5-20 questions. That will not be you, as - like an athlete - you’ve prepared for this moment.

Game over. You celebrate in September. 8)

My $.02

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Re: NATIONAL MBE MEAN = 132.775 WHAT IS GOING ON AT THE NCBE??

Postby whelmer » Wed Apr 18, 2018 5:47 pm

Flash. Cards.

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Re: NATIONAL MBE MEAN = 132.775 WHAT IS GOING ON AT THE NCBE??

Postby pech71 » Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:15 pm

https://www.mble.org/exam-web-stats-feb-2018

maybe some insight here. Almost a 140 first time average MBE for the 135 first time takers. But, there is a 124 and 122 average for 2 and 3+ time takers that drops the overall average to a 133 for the state.

Considering that the 1st time average is 15 points higher than the 2nd time, this could be a huge reason why the 132.775 average happened with maybe a higher pool of 2+ time takers.

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Re: NATIONAL MBE MEAN = 132.775 WHAT IS GOING ON AT THE NCBE??

Postby pech71 » Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:21 pm

https://www.mble.org/exam-web-stats-july-2017

just posting one more quick thing. In july 2017 for Miss. 10% of takers were repeat averaging 128 MBE. In February 2018, 40% of takers were repeat averaging 124. This dilutes the overall average. So even though July MBE was 3 points higher for first times, overall average still quite high for state (nation) because of pool of applicant's having less "high risk" takers of 2+ times.

I didn't look at other states but this may be part of why the 132.775 average happened when 40% of applicants are 2+ times vs. 10% in july (generalization based on one state).



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