Feb. 2018 Themis

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JoLaw824

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Re: Feb. 2018 Themis

Postby JoLaw824 » Fri Feb 16, 2018 7:41 pm

Respondeat_Inferior wrote:The "key issues tested" section of barbri is essentially the same thing as the MEE workshop that Themis has.


I'm not an MEE state... I already bugged our themis guy about it haha. So far this approach is working for me!

PSK_246

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Re: Feb. 2018 Themis

Postby PSK_246 » Fri Feb 16, 2018 9:47 pm

Crockidator wrote:Has anyone else found that they get worse scores on practice MBE questions than the simulated exams?

Someone mentioned earlier in this thread that the practice sets might recalibrate as you go to give you more questions of the type that you typically miss. Did we ever figure out if this is true? Because I don't really understand the trajectory of my MBE questions otherwise. I've gotten up to 20% higher on the simulated MBEs than some of my practice sets (especially in the later question sets for subject areas).

For the next two weeks, I am going to keep talking myself down from panic with the pass percentages on Themis's site for first-time takers who complete at least 75%. There is about a 90% chance that I will NOT fail this test (as long as I, you know, actually get my butt in gear and learn secured transactions and commercial paper and polish up my essay writing skills). We are probably going to make it through this and never have to do it again, everyone!


FWIW, I started doing the MBE practice question sets in Test Mode about two weeks ago and have found that I do significantly better without the live correct/wrong tracker taunting me the whole time. It's close enough to test day that we should take the training wheels off anyway so I recommend giving it a shot.

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Neilt001

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Re: Feb. 2018 Themis

Postby Neilt001 » Fri Feb 16, 2018 10:06 pm

JoLaw824 wrote:I'm sure my Themis rep would not be happy with me, but I've spent the last two days (albeit, starting my days with 50 MBE always, when I'm up, post-workout, heavily caffeinated and fresh), hitting each essay, reading it, tying in the random letter like you are, then seeing their answer. Then I have been pulling all the rules of law out from their answer and onto a Word doc - so I can keep re-reading it. Suffice it to say, I'm hoping if I can get through all the essays (I have 12 more), that Themis has hit every "most tested" topic, and I've read through each one in a way you should write it on the exam. I feel like these "rule statements" or memorizing the law in the way it should be written on the exam, is crucial.

I'm so worried about memorizing enough for this part.

I am a re-taker and did Barbri the first time. They had an entire half of a book dedicated to "Key Issues Tested" on Essays that did this basically for you - which is the ONLY thing I'll say that was great versus Themis. Otherwise, I've liked the Themis program way more.


Yes! Sounds like we have the same approach. I too am really hoping that Themis covers all the Issues Tested and that we're not totally fucked on exam day due to never-before-seen essay questions. I feel like Themis is doing a good job 'covering the field' but who knows.

PS that last corps essay was brutal (conflicting bylaw amendments).

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Neilt001

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Re: Feb. 2018 Themis

Postby Neilt001 » Fri Feb 16, 2018 10:09 pm

PSK_246 wrote:FWIW, I started doing the MBE practice question sets in Test Mode about two weeks ago and have found that I do significantly better without the live correct/wrong tracker taunting me the whole time. It's close enough to test day that we should take the training wheels off anyway so I recommend giving it a shot.


That sounds like a good idea. Thus far I've been living and dying by that goddamn live tracker. Will try test mode this weekend. Would be nice to possibly see a score improvement though I'm skeptical!

beep.boop.lawyering

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Re: Feb. 2018 Themis

Postby beep.boop.lawyering » Fri Feb 16, 2018 10:52 pm

FYI when you click down to see your progress you can also click on the SIDE of the Chart for each topic. For the Practice Exams (MBE's and Graded Essay's) you can see how you compare to everyone else.

IDK how to post a pic on here or I'd add a screenshot

beep.boop.lawyering

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Re: Feb. 2018 Themis

Postby beep.boop.lawyering » Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:03 pm

For those of you that get a little tired of the Themis trick questions. Here's a good site:
https://barprephero.com/
It even has a vid of a guy interviewing students as they are walking in to take the NY bar exam.

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Respondeat_Inferior

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Re: Feb. 2018 Themis

Postby Respondeat_Inferior » Sat Feb 17, 2018 4:10 pm

Neilt001 wrote:
PSK_246 wrote:FWIW, I started doing the MBE practice question sets in Test Mode about two weeks ago and have found that I do significantly better without the live correct/wrong tracker taunting me the whole time. It's close enough to test day that we should take the training wheels off anyway so I recommend giving it a shot.


That sounds like a good idea. Thus far I've been living and dying by that goddamn live tracker. Will try test mode this weekend. Would be nice to possibly see a score improvement though I'm skeptical!


I like test mode better too, but I have trouble getting through all of the answer explanations when I do question sets in test mode.

Have you ever done question sets on your phone? Each new question it refreshes to your correct/incorrect tracker in HUGE font to really rub it in your face.

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Neilt001

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Re: Feb. 2018 Themis

Postby Neilt001 » Sat Feb 17, 2018 4:13 pm

beep.boop.lawyering wrote:For those of you that get a little tired of the Themis trick questions. Here's a good site:
https://barprephero.com/
It even has a vid of a guy interviewing students as they are walking in to take the NY bar exam.


Thanks for this! Nice to try some other questions. They certainly are different from Themis.

Have you noticed that they're much easier? Surely the bar exam questions aren't this easy?

Would you guys recommend spending the $50 for a practice NCBE MBE?

kc128

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Re: Feb. 2018 Themis

Postby kc128 » Sat Feb 17, 2018 4:21 pm

Respondeat_Inferior wrote:
Neilt001 wrote:
PSK_246 wrote:FWIW, I started doing the MBE practice question sets in Test Mode about two weeks ago and have found that I do significantly better without the live correct/wrong tracker taunting me the whole time. It's close enough to test day that we should take the training wheels off anyway so I recommend giving it a shot.


That sounds like a good idea. Thus far I've been living and dying by that goddamn live tracker. Will try test mode this weekend. Would be nice to possibly see a score improvement though I'm skeptical!


I like test mode better too, but I have trouble getting through all of the answer explanations when I do question sets in test mode.

Have you ever done question sets on your phone? Each new question it refreshes to your correct/incorrect tracker in HUGE font to really rub it in your face.


I've done test mode from the beginning. It literally takes 2 hours to do the 34 questions and really review them. I personally haven't tried using my phone, though I probably should have been more proactive and done that... oops.

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Respondeat_Inferior

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Re: Feb. 2018 Themis

Postby Respondeat_Inferior » Sat Feb 17, 2018 4:33 pm

kc128 wrote:
Respondeat_Inferior wrote:
Neilt001 wrote:
PSK_246 wrote:FWIW, I started doing the MBE practice question sets in Test Mode about two weeks ago and have found that I do significantly better without the live correct/wrong tracker taunting me the whole time. It's close enough to test day that we should take the training wheels off anyway so I recommend giving it a shot.


That sounds like a good idea. Thus far I've been living and dying by that goddamn live tracker. Will try test mode this weekend. Would be nice to possibly see a score improvement though I'm skeptical!


I like test mode better too, but I have trouble getting through all of the answer explanations when I do question sets in test mode.

Have you ever done question sets on your phone? Each new question it refreshes to your correct/incorrect tracker in HUGE font to really rub it in your face.


I've done test mode from the beginning. It literally takes 2 hours to do the 34 questions and really review them. I personally haven't tried using my phone, though I probably should have been more proactive and done that... oops.


My employer doesn't really understand the amount of study that goes into the bar as I'll be there first in-house lawyer. They're used to having people studying for the LCSW boards and being able to pass with half-hearted light evening studying, and I'm salaried and have to travel a lot for audits. Have to fit it in wherever I can. :cry:

It's weird, the Themis app doesn't let you do questions, just essays and these weird AQ2-like questions of dubious value. You have to log in to themis through a mobile browser.

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Re: Feb. 2018 Themis

Postby macgirl » Sat Feb 17, 2018 5:21 pm

Neilt001 wrote:
beep.boop.lawyering wrote:For those of you that get a little tired of the Themis trick questions. Here's a good site:
https://barprephero.com/
It even has a vid of a guy interviewing students as they are walking in to take the NY bar exam.


Thanks for this! Nice to try some other questions. They certainly are different from Themis.

Have you noticed that they're much easier? Surely the bar exam questions aren't this easy?

Would you guys recommend spending the $50 for a practice NCBE MBE?


I was definitely getting more right on bar hero than themis.

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Neilt001

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Re: Feb. 2018 Themis

Postby Neilt001 » Sun Feb 18, 2018 2:07 pm

Know it's not good to compare one's self to others, but I'm kinda freaking out after scoring a 57% on that final practice MBE (a decrease from my 61% last weekend). I don't get it - I always write down and memorize all my wrong answers, and I feel like I don't make the same mistake twice. And yet a significant portion of that final MBE test was unfamiliar and complete guesswork. Kinda feeling like all signs pointing to a failure on MBE day.

I'll input the answers tomorrow and find out where I went wrong, but I just feel like it's kinda late to still be learning so many new rules!

How did you all find that final exam?

beep.boop.lawyering

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Re: Feb. 2018 Themis

Postby beep.boop.lawyering » Sun Feb 18, 2018 11:48 pm

WOW! The tip to start doing the Mixed MBE's in Test Mode made a HUGE difference in my score! Thank you for that!!
I think on the interactive mode it takes longer and its easier to get discouraged when it tells you each one you get wrong.

On another note - I do think that the Themis questions are harder from what I've heard. And I have been tempted to buy an NCBE exam but I haven't even finished the Themis q's yet. And the TX Bar Exam is next week! Ughhh!

Also, another thing that might be helpful for the Essays! If you are an active reader you can go to the essay screen as if you are going to do a practice question, and then copy the essay text, and then paste it into word and PRINT IT OUT really quick.

I do that for every Essay (I still stick to the time requirements and type my answer in the response box online, but I find that, on the Bar exam we are going to have a paper version that we can actually write on and format our response so might as well do it that way now.)

GOOD LUCK to all everywhere!

beep.boop.lawyering

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Re: Feb. 2018 Themis

Postby beep.boop.lawyering » Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:06 am

JoLaw824 wrote:
kc128 wrote:
JoLaw824 wrote:What really annoys me is the difference between common law conspiracy and every other law (fed, MPC) conspiracy. That tripped me up. Like why test us on multiple variations of the same law?! WE CAN LOOK THIS UP ONCE WE'RE ACTUALLY ATTORNEYS. Bah.

End rant. Back to the grind.


MY FEELINGS ON EVERY GODDAMN CIV PRO PLEADINGS QUESTION.


Civ Pro is the worst. There is zero reason we all need to memorize civ pro. I literally laugh every time I have to go into the big book and re-read Erie. It's just nonsensical.


Yeah, the claim/issue preclusion is tricky AF! Have you looked back at your original handout from the lecture?
That helped me a lot!!
Go in order: Claim preclusion? = no. then is it issue preclusion?
the biggest difference is that a default judgment/summary judgment/dismissal w/ prejudice WILL preclude a claim from being re-litigated but it is not a complete bar to Issue preclusion. (which requires same Party "to be precluded") and the issue must have been necessarily and actually decided. There is an MBE pq that involves a pedestrian suing a driver (question ID 5066).

It explains who the "party to be precluded is" because that was the trickiest part for me.


Good luck!

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Re: Feb. 2018 Themis

Postby Respondeat_Inferior » Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:08 am

Neilt001 wrote:Know it's not good to compare one's self to others, but I'm kinda freaking out after scoring a 57% on that final practice MBE (a decrease from my 61% last weekend). I don't get it - I always write down and memorize all my wrong answers, and I feel like I don't make the same mistake twice. And yet a significant portion of that final MBE test was unfamiliar and complete guesswork. Kinda feeling like all signs pointing to a failure on MBE day.

I'll input the answers tomorrow and find out where I went wrong, but I just feel like it's kinda late to still be learning so many new rules!

How did you all find that final exam?


If you have done all of the other question sets and all of the tests, then you're at about 2500-2600 questions completed. From what I've heard in your posts, your overall scores are in the passing range. I'm sure you've had a few that were even standout good. If you're not going to point out any of your passing range question sets as definite evidence that you're going to pass, why point out a low scoring question set as evidence that you're going to fail? You're doing the work, trust the statistics.

The possible topics are practically endless, and there's endless variations for how they present them. If you happened to run across something you'd never seen before in your last question set, I'd consider that lucky. Getting a 75% score on a bunch of questions you've done before feels good, but finding something you haven't covered is actually useful.

kc128

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Re: Feb. 2018 Themis

Postby kc128 » Mon Feb 19, 2018 10:39 am

Respondeat_Inferior wrote:
Neilt001 wrote:Know it's not good to compare one's self to others, but I'm kinda freaking out after scoring a 57% on that final practice MBE (a decrease from my 61% last weekend). I don't get it - I always write down and memorize all my wrong answers, and I feel like I don't make the same mistake twice. And yet a significant portion of that final MBE test was unfamiliar and complete guesswork. Kinda feeling like all signs pointing to a failure on MBE day.

I'll input the answers tomorrow and find out where I went wrong, but I just feel like it's kinda late to still be learning so many new rules!

How did you all find that final exam?


If you have done all of the other question sets and all of the tests, then you're at about 2500-2600 questions completed. From what I've heard in your posts, your overall scores are in the passing range. I'm sure you've had a few that were even standout good. If you're not going to point out any of your passing range question sets as definite evidence that you're going to pass, why point out a low scoring question set as evidence that you're going to fail? You're doing the work, trust the statistics.

The possible topics are practically endless, and there's endless variations for how they present them. If you happened to run across something you'd never seen before in your last question set, I'd consider that lucky. Getting a 75% score on a bunch of questions you've done before feels good, but finding something you haven't covered is actually useful.


Loveeee this! Thanks for giving me a better outlook to start off the last week!

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Neilt001

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Re: Feb. 2018 Themis

Postby Neilt001 » Mon Feb 19, 2018 11:41 am

kc128 wrote:
Respondeat_Inferior wrote:
Neilt001 wrote:Know it's not good to compare one's self to others, but I'm kinda freaking out after scoring a 57% on that final practice MBE (a decrease from my 61% last weekend). I don't get it - I always write down and memorize all my wrong answers, and I feel like I don't make the same mistake twice. And yet a significant portion of that final MBE test was unfamiliar and complete guesswork. Kinda feeling like all signs pointing to a failure on MBE day.

I'll input the answers tomorrow and find out where I went wrong, but I just feel like it's kinda late to still be learning so many new rules!

How did you all find that final exam?


If you have done all of the other question sets and all of the tests, then you're at about 2500-2600 questions completed. From what I've heard in your posts, your overall scores are in the passing range. I'm sure you've had a few that were even standout good. If you're not going to point out any of your passing range question sets as definite evidence that you're going to pass, why point out a low scoring question set as evidence that you're going to fail? You're doing the work, trust the statistics.

The possible topics are practically endless, and there's endless variations for how they present them. If you happened to run across something you'd never seen before in your last question set, I'd consider that lucky. Getting a 75% score on a bunch of questions you've done before feels good, but finding something you haven't covered is actually useful.


Loveeee this! Thanks for giving me a better outlook to start off the last week!


I think this is a great point - if you're not scoring high, it means you're learning things you didn't know before. And you're right - there's endless variation and questions, and so it's a mistake to think you'll eventually have 'seen it all' (though I guess I was hoping by this stage that the 'unfamiliar' questions would be in the stark minority by now!) In fact maybe Themis is intentionally giving lots of variation so we learn, rather than testing us on things we know well... (pure speculation).

But you're right - no point in putting too much weight in a low score when they're not all bad. Trust the process and that, after doing about 2500 Themis questions you'll probably be ok. Just pre-exam freak outs I guess!

Many thanks!! :)

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Neilt001

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Re: Feb. 2018 Themis

Postby Neilt001 » Mon Feb 19, 2018 11:44 am

beep.boop.lawyering wrote:WOW! The tip to start doing the Mixed MBE's in Test Mode made a HUGE difference in my score! Thank you for that!!
I think on the interactive mode it takes longer and its easier to get discouraged when it tells you each one you get wrong.

On another note - I do think that the Themis questions are harder from what I've heard. And I have been tempted to buy an NCBE exam but I haven't even finished the Themis q's yet. And the TX Bar Exam is next week! Ughhh!

Also, another thing that might be helpful for the Essays! If you are an active reader you can go to the essay screen as if you are going to do a practice question, and then copy the essay text, and then paste it into word and PRINT IT OUT really quick.

I do that for every Essay (I still stick to the time requirements and type my answer in the response box online, but I find that, on the Bar exam we are going to have a paper version that we can actually write on and format our response so might as well do it that way now.)

GOOD LUCK to all everywhere!


I bought an NCBE exam (#4) this weekend and the questions were the same as Themis. And by that I mean, not only were the questions in the same form/style/difficulty/etc, but I even saw a few identical questions that Themis obviously lifted straight from NCBE. So personally I don't know if NCBE questions will be that much help because Themis is using NCBE questions from what I can tell?

JoLaw824

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Re: Feb. 2018 Themis

Postby JoLaw824 » Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:45 pm

beep.boop.lawyering wrote:
JoLaw824 wrote:
kc128 wrote:
JoLaw824 wrote:What really annoys me is the difference between common law conspiracy and every other law (fed, MPC) conspiracy. That tripped me up. Like why test us on multiple variations of the same law?! WE CAN LOOK THIS UP ONCE WE'RE ACTUALLY ATTORNEYS. Bah.

End rant. Back to the grind.


MY FEELINGS ON EVERY GODDAMN CIV PRO PLEADINGS QUESTION.


Civ Pro is the worst. There is zero reason we all need to memorize civ pro. I literally laugh every time I have to go into the big book and re-read Erie. It's just nonsensical.


Yeah, the claim/issue preclusion is tricky AF! Have you looked back at your original handout from the lecture?
That helped me a lot!!
Go in order: Claim preclusion? = no. then is it issue preclusion?
the biggest difference is that a default judgment/summary judgment/dismissal w/ prejudice WILL preclude a claim from being re-litigated but it is not a complete bar to Issue preclusion. (which requires same Party "to be precluded") and the issue must have been necessarily and actually decided. There is an MBE pq that involves a pedestrian suing a driver (question ID 5066).

It explains who the "party to be precluded is" because that was the trickiest part for me.


Good luck!


Thank you!!

beep.boop.lawyering

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Re: Feb. 2018 Themis

Postby beep.boop.lawyering » Mon Feb 19, 2018 2:33 pm

Neilt001 wrote:
beep.boop.lawyering wrote:WOW! The tip to start doing the Mixed MBE's in Test Mode made a HUGE difference in my score! Thank you for that!!
I think on the interactive mode it takes longer and its easier to get discouraged when it tells you each one you get wrong.

On another note - I do think that the Themis questions are harder from what I've heard. And I have been tempted to buy an NCBE exam but I haven't even finished the Themis q's yet. And the TX Bar Exam is next week! Ughhh!

Also, another thing that might be helpful for the Essays! If you are an active reader you can go to the essay screen as if you are going to do a practice question, and then copy the essay text, and then paste it into word and PRINT IT OUT really quick.

I do that for every Essay (I still stick to the time requirements and type my answer in the response box online, but I find that, on the Bar exam we are going to have a paper version that we can actually write on and format our response so might as well do it that way now.)

GOOD LUCK to all everywhere!


I bought an NCBE exam (#4) this weekend and the questions were the same as Themis. And by that I mean, not only were the questions in the same form/style/difficulty/etc, but I even saw a few identical questions that Themis obviously lifted straight from NCBE. So personally I don't know if NCBE questions will be that much help because Themis is using NCBE questions from what I can tell?



Wow!! Thank you so much! That is such a relief and much appreciated! Good luck to you!
We got this!

kc128

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Re: Feb. 2018 Themis

Postby kc128 » Mon Feb 19, 2018 3:02 pm

beep.boop.lawyering wrote:
Neilt001 wrote:
beep.boop.lawyering wrote:WOW! The tip to start doing the Mixed MBE's in Test Mode made a HUGE difference in my score! Thank you for that!!
I think on the interactive mode it takes longer and its easier to get discouraged when it tells you each one you get wrong.

On another note - I do think that the Themis questions are harder from what I've heard. And I have been tempted to buy an NCBE exam but I haven't even finished the Themis q's yet. And the TX Bar Exam is next week! Ughhh!

Also, another thing that might be helpful for the Essays! If you are an active reader you can go to the essay screen as if you are going to do a practice question, and then copy the essay text, and then paste it into word and PRINT IT OUT really quick.

I do that for every Essay (I still stick to the time requirements and type my answer in the response box online, but I find that, on the Bar exam we are going to have a paper version that we can actually write on and format our response so might as well do it that way now.)

GOOD LUCK to all everywhere!


I bought an NCBE exam (#4) this weekend and the questions were the same as Themis. And by that I mean, not only were the questions in the same form/style/difficulty/etc, but I even saw a few identical questions that Themis obviously lifted straight from NCBE. So personally I don't know if NCBE questions will be that much help because Themis is using NCBE questions from what I can tell?



Wow!! Thank you so much! That is such a relief and much appreciated! Good luck to you!
We got this!


Is there a way to direct message now that the PM feature has been disabled? I have a copy of the NCBE and I'm happy to forward if there's a way to do so...

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Re: Feb. 2018 Themis

Postby PSK_246 » Mon Feb 19, 2018 5:42 pm

Milestone #4 sucked

JoLaw824

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Re: Feb. 2018 Themis

Postby JoLaw824 » Mon Feb 19, 2018 6:44 pm

PSK_246 wrote:Milestone #4 sucked


The 100 question Test (#4)? I think it was intentional, or so my rep told me.

I did crappy on set 10 or 11 today. Ugh.

I feel like I have so much work still left to do (memorize essay rules, take more MBEs), and I am SO exhausted. I just want my normal life back.

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Re: Feb. 2018 Themis

Postby KeepPushing1234 » Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:13 pm

Does anyone have any suggestions with respect to how to improve on timing on the MBE? That's my struggle at the moment, I can't seem to get through all of the questions before time runs out, and I'm left with just filling in answer B, so as not to leave any blank :(

kc128

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Re: Feb. 2018 Themis

Postby kc128 » Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:18 pm

KeepPushing1234 wrote:Does anyone have any suggestions with respect to how to improve on timing on the MBE? That's my struggle at the moment, I can't seem to get through all of the questions before time runs out, and I'm left with just filling in answer B, so as not to leave any blank :(


Have you tried mixed sets of 17 questions in 30 min. or 33 questions in an hour? That might help you, just to get used to powering through it.



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