2018 February CA Bar Forum

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Snowflake1

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Re: 2018 February CA Bar

Post by Snowflake1 » Wed May 23, 2018 11:23 pm

Nightcrawler wrote:
chicoalto0649 wrote:I had a 1611 MBE and failed last July 2017. Do not gamble on the essays or bet the MBE will take you over the edge.
That's an awesome MBE score, congrats. May I ask what you used to prepare for it?
A combination of barbri and strategies and tactics. Awesome score but I did not pass that exam :((

aladdinsane

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Re: 2018 February CA Bar

Post by aladdinsane » Thu May 24, 2018 1:31 am

First ever post, but wanted to offer some words of encouragement to retakers, provide my own experience, and express my appreciation to everyone (especially a male human) on this forum.

I took the February 2017 exam and ended up with a 1250 total scaled score (1217 written and 1311 MBE), but managed to pass on my second attempt this past February. (1250 is around the 10th percentile btw)

For whatever it's worth, here's how I changed my preparation/strategies from February 2017 to February 2018:

MBE:
-I began my bar review around the first week of January by doing an in-depth review of all the MBE subjects one-by-one. I would read through the Barbri Conviser Mini Review (sometimes underlining/highlighting) and the lecture video handout I had completed/annotated the previous year. (Regarding Barbri lecture videos: I really felt like not having to spend so much time watching them this go around allowed me to spend much more time on studying/memorizing (I really struggle with rote memorization)/practice...on the other hand, the videos are useful because the lecturers tell you which topics are tested often and which aren't, and have some useful hypos. Still, I definitely spent way too much time on them last year.)

-I purchased Adaptibar (the only money I spent on bar review this year) and did a total of about 700 questions (I did not do any of Barbri's questions). I would review a subject, do 50 questions of that subject, and move on to the next subject. Once I had gotten to 350, I started doing like 25 random questions per day until the exam. My cumulative average never went over 60%. For awhile I was typing out rule statements for questions I got wrong, as well as rule statements in the answer explanations...I'm not sure this ended up being worth anything, because I never had time to review what I had typed out. I do think taking a lot of time to review and understand the answer explanations, as well as all the rules contained in them, was very worthwhile.

-About 3 weeks out from the exam date, I re-reviewed all seven MBE topics (spending like a day on each) as I studied the California-only topics. I felt like doing this was really helpful because last year, I think I had gotten rusty on the MBE topics by the end of bar review. The Barbri class schedule does all the MBE topics at the beginning and then all the California-only topics...I do think it's good to start with the MBE topics, but I definitely can say it helped a lot to re-review them closer to test day, especially because the MBE seems to be testing more and more "exceptions to exceptions" and whatnot.

-Test Day: Speaking of "exceptions to exceptions," I agree with many on this forum that the MBE, particularly on Civ Pro, seemed to test many nitpicky rules/issues...I requested a score advisory from NCBE and found out I scored above 150 this time, so I definitely ended up doing much better than the 1311 I scored last year, even with doing only 700 Adaptibar questions.

What I did differently on test day this year was really implement "process of elimination" as a strategy; this is sort of backwards compared to how Barbri instructs you to go about it, as they advocate you trying to recall the correct answer before looking at the answer choices...I discovered Barbri's strategy doesn't really work well for me, first because I'm relatively bad at recalling exact rules purely from memory, and second, because it seems like on most questions, the rule they are testing is pretty conspicuously revealed in the answer choices. So if you're someone who struggles with memorization like me (i never even memorized a single outline in law school), perhaps try letting the answer choices guide you instead of the "call of the question," keeping in mind of course that some of the answer choices are designed specifically to trick you. When stuck on deciding between two answer choices (this happened often), I would usually go with the one that seemed less intuitive, figuring the other one was a "trap". I also really focused on keeping my emotions completely disconnected from the substance of the questions (this probably sounds stupid, but I do think sometimes the facts are specifically designed to fuck with us by appealing to our ethical intuition; so often the right answer seems to completely shaft criminal defendants, allocate damages/property between parties counterintuitively, or shield the government and other unsympathetic defendants from liability).

Essays:
So let's assume I got like a 1510 this time on the MBE (could've been higher); that means I would've had to score at least a 1370 on essays to pass...that's like 420 raw essay points, so an average of 60 per essay.

First off, I totally bombed the PT (and bombed both of them last year too); the most I could have scored on it would be a 50, because I only wrote like 500 words total on it and my answer to the second question in the prompt was only one conclusory sentence. I know this was a really risky and foolish to do, but then again, I am a really slow reader, so I doubt I could've done that much better on the PT no matter what, and I didn't have time to practice PTs when I was still trying to cram in reviewing all the CA subjects and re-review the MBE subjects.

For essays, I do think "predicting" the topics that are most likely (AND LEAST LIKELY) is worth doing. For example, I didn't waste any time studying/writing tort, community property, or federal civil procedure essays. I also expected a constitutional law question, and figured it would more likely be First Amendment or Intergovernmental Immunities than other topics that had more recently been tested.

I only had time to do a few practice essays (fewer than 10)...what helped most for the essays was conforming my responses to the format used in this essay: http://www.makethisyourlasttime.com/wp- ... rop_85.pdf (scored an 85).

I set off analysis paragraphs with "Here, ___", ended analysis paragraphs with a sentence beginning with "Thus _____.", and ended the discussion of each main issue with a standalone conclusion "paragraph" that was usually one sentence long and always went, "Therefore, ____.". I also set off rule statements as individual paragraphs, unless two rules were so related that they were better left together. Basically, I really tried to put myself in the shoes of the grader and make it blatantly obvious where everything was located structurally.

I wrote multiple incorrect rule statements (for example, I forgot two elements of the Lemon test, so I made up a couple elements and used them instead), and except for wills, didn't feel particularly confident about any of my essays, which ranged from 800 words to 1300 words in length.

___

Anyway, that's all to say that it is definitely possible to make huge improvements on this exam and pass...I was in a very dark place for the whole past year since failing...it had a negative impact on my then-job, my self-esteem, you name it. But I also hope I can encourage repeaters that you don't necessarily have to change too much in order to pass...sometimes, a natural weakness is just that and there is not much use pouring a ton of time and effort into trying to force it to work for you (for me, this was the PT); other times, it is worth it to invest time in improving performance in specific areas. Use your results as a guide, and trust yourself. There is no "right way" or "wrong way" to prepare for this exam, but you can figure out "better ways" that work for you as an individual...so don't feel like you need to do like thousands of MBE questions or write out 100 essays just because you've heard or read other people are doing that.

Also, on a personal note, it's definitely possible to burn out on bar prep. I had a total mini-meltdown about five weeks in this year and basically lost a total of like 10 days of solid prep time around the end of January and beginning of February; then on top of that I ended up catching the flu around February 10. At that point, I had to just start laughing at myself and the absurdity of this entire process (because it really is absurd). I wrote out an "emergency" studying calendar for the remaining days I had left, figuring I was all but guaranteed to fail, but decided I might as well just give it my best shot and sprint (read: cram) to the proverbial finish line. All in all, I think I spent a total of seven weeks preparing, vis-à-vis over 10 weeks last year. Honestly, 6-7 weeks is probably about all I can sanely tolerate of studying the mass of mind-numbing and mostly useless material tested on the bar exam (plus, at least personally, there's an upper bound on retention anyway).

tl;dr: Ultimately, figuring out what works for you is what's integral to your success (of course, dumb luck matters a lot as well given the subjectivity of the essay grading...that's why it's probably worthwhile to devote time to the MBE). If I could change up a handful of study strategies and go from 1250 to passing, so can you. Be flexible, be forgiving of yourself, and don't take it too seriously (remind yourself that this exam is really just a thinly veiled barrier-to-entry and failing it really indicates nothing about your ability to practice law). You can do it; this utterly ludicrous test is beatable.

Thanks again, everyone!

hope2018

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Re: 2018 February CA Bar

Post by hope2018 » Thu May 24, 2018 9:07 am

aladdinsane wrote:First ever post, but wanted to offer some words of encouragement to retakers, provide my own experience, and express my appreciation to everyone (especially a male human) on this forum.

I took the February 2017 exam and ended up with a 1250 total scaled score (1217 written and 1311 MBE), but managed to pass on my second attempt this past February. (1250 is around the 10th percentile btw)

For whatever it's worth, here's how I changed my preparation/strategies from February 2017 to February 2018:

MBE:
-I began my bar review around the first week of January by doing an in-depth review of all the MBE subjects one-by-one. I would read through the Barbri Conviser Mini Review (sometimes underlining/highlighting) and the lecture video handout I had completed/annotated the previous year. (Regarding Barbri lecture videos: I really felt like not having to spend so much time watching them this go around allowed me to spend much more time on studying/memorizing (I really struggle with rote memorization)/practice...on the other hand, the videos are useful because the lecturers tell you which topics are tested often and which aren't, and have some useful hypos. Still, I definitely spent way too much time on them last year.)

-I purchased Adaptibar (the only money I spent on bar review this year) and did a total of about 700 questions (I did not do any of Barbri's questions). I would review a subject, do 50 questions of that subject, and move on to the next subject. Once I had gotten to 350, I started doing like 25 random questions per day until the exam. My cumulative average never went over 60%. For awhile I was typing out rule statements for questions I got wrong, as well as rule statements in the answer explanations...I'm not sure this ended up being worth anything, because I never had time to review what I had typed out. I do think taking a lot of time to review and understand the answer explanations, as well as all the rules contained in them, was very worthwhile.

-About 3 weeks out from the exam date, I re-reviewed all seven MBE topics (spending like a day on each) as I studied the California-only topics. I felt like doing this was really helpful because last year, I think I had gotten rusty on the MBE topics by the end of bar review. The Barbri class schedule does all the MBE topics at the beginning and then all the California-only topics...I do think it's good to start with the MBE topics, but I definitely can say it helped a lot to re-review them closer to test day, especially because the MBE seems to be testing more and more "exceptions to exceptions" and whatnot.

-Test Day: Speaking of "exceptions to exceptions," I agree with many on this forum that the MBE, particularly on Civ Pro, seemed to test many nitpicky rules/issues...I requested a score advisory from NCBE and found out I scored above 150 this time, so I definitely ended up doing much better than the 1311 I scored last year, even with doing only 700 Adaptibar questions.

What I did differently on test day this year was really implement "process of elimination" as a strategy; this is sort of backwards compared to how Barbri instructs you to go about it, as they advocate you trying to recall the correct answer before looking at the answer choices...I discovered Barbri's strategy doesn't really work well for me, first because I'm relatively bad at recalling exact rules purely from memory, and second, because it seems like on most questions, the rule they are testing is pretty conspicuously revealed in the answer choices. So if you're someone who struggles with memorization like me (i never even memorized a single outline in law school), perhaps try letting the answer choices guide you instead of the "call of the question," keeping in mind of course that some of the answer choices are designed specifically to trick you. When stuck on deciding between two answer choices (this happened often), I would usually go with the one that seemed less intuitive, figuring the other one was a "trap". I also really focused on keeping my emotions completely disconnected from the substance of the questions (this probably sounds stupid, but I do think sometimes the facts are specifically designed to fuck with us by appealing to our ethical intuition; so often the right answer seems to completely shaft criminal defendants, allocate damages/property between parties counterintuitively, or shield the government and other unsympathetic defendants from liability).

Essays:
So let's assume I got like a 1510 this time on the MBE (could've been higher); that means I would've had to score at least a 1370 on essays to pass...that's like 420 raw essay points, so an average of 60 per essay.

First off, I totally bombed the PT (and bombed both of them last year too); the most I could have scored on it would be a 50, because I only wrote like 500 words total on it and my answer to the second question in the prompt was only one conclusory sentence. I know this was a really risky and foolish to do, but then again, I am a really slow reader, so I doubt I could've done that much better on the PT no matter what, and I didn't have time to practice PTs when I was still trying to cram in reviewing all the CA subjects and re-review the MBE subjects.

For essays, I do think "predicting" the topics that are most likely (AND LEAST LIKELY) is worth doing. For example, I didn't waste any time studying/writing tort, community property, or federal civil procedure essays. I also expected a constitutional law question, and figured it would more likely be First Amendment or Intergovernmental Immunities than other topics that had more recently been tested.

I only had time to do a few practice essays (fewer than 10)...what helped most for the essays was conforming my responses to the format used in this essay: http://www.makethisyourlasttime.com/wp- ... rop_85.pdf (scored an 85).

I set off analysis paragraphs with "Here, ___", ended analysis paragraphs with a sentence beginning with "Thus _____.", and ended the discussion of each main issue with a standalone conclusion "paragraph" that was usually one sentence long and always went, "Therefore, ____.". I also set off rule statements as individual paragraphs, unless two rules were so related that they were better left together. Basically, I really tried to put myself in the shoes of the grader and make it blatantly obvious where everything was located structurally.

I wrote multiple incorrect rule statements (for example, I forgot two elements of the Lemon test, so I made up a couple elements and used them instead), and except for wills, didn't feel particularly confident about any of my essays, which ranged from 800 words to 1300 words in length.

___

Anyway, that's all to say that it is definitely possible to make huge improvements on this exam and pass...I was in a very dark place for the whole past year since failing...it had a negative impact on my then-job, my self-esteem, you name it. But I also hope I can encourage repeaters that you don't necessarily have to change too much in order to pass...sometimes, a natural weakness is just that and there is not much use pouring a ton of time and effort into trying to force it to work for you (for me, this was the PT); other times, it is worth it to invest time in improving performance in specific areas. Use your results as a guide, and trust yourself. There is no "right way" or "wrong way" to prepare for this exam, but you can figure out "better ways" that work for you as an individual...so don't feel like you need to do like thousands of MBE questions or write out 100 essays just because you've heard or read other people are doing that.

Also, on a personal note, it's definitely possible to burn out on bar prep. I had a total mini-meltdown about five weeks in this year and basically lost a total of like 10 days of solid prep time around the end of January and beginning of February; then on top of that I ended up catching the flu around February 10. At that point, I had to just start laughing at myself and the absurdity of this entire process (because it really is absurd). I wrote out an "emergency" studying calendar for the remaining days I had left, figuring I was all but guaranteed to fail, but decided I might as well just give it my best shot and sprint (read: cram) to the proverbial finish line. All in all, I think I spent a total of seven weeks preparing, vis-à-vis over 10 weeks last year. Honestly, 6-7 weeks is probably about all I can sanely tolerate of studying the mass of mind-numbing and mostly useless material tested on the bar exam (plus, at least personally, there's an upper bound on retention anyway).

tl;dr: Ultimately, figuring out what works for you is what's integral to your success (of course, dumb luck matters a lot as well given the subjectivity of the essay grading...that's why it's probably worthwhile to devote time to the MBE). If I could change up a handful of study strategies and go from 1250 to passing, so can you. Be flexible, be forgiving of yourself, and don't take it too seriously (remind yourself that this exam is really just a thinly veiled barrier-to-entry and failing it really indicates nothing about your ability to practice law). You can do it; this utterly ludicrous test is beatable.

Thanks again, everyone!
Thank you for your post. How can I request my scores from NCBE?

aladdinsane

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Re: 2018 February CA Bar

Post by aladdinsane » Thu May 24, 2018 11:58 am

hope2018 wrote:
Thank you for your post. How can I request my scores from NCBE?
http://www.ncbex.org/ncbe-exam-score-se ... -services/

Bla Bla Bla Blah

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Re: 2018 February CA Bar

Post by Bla Bla Bla Blah » Fri May 25, 2018 10:28 am

aladdinsane wrote:
hope2018 wrote:
Thank you for your post. How can I request my scores from NCBE?
http://www.ncbex.org/ncbe-exam-score-se ... -services/
Just did this, and for CA they only release "score advisories" (for three jurisdictions, i.e., 3 different score advisory documents). It looks something like:

Your MBE scaled score meets or exceeds the miniminum scaled score requirements of:

145 required to transfer to MN
150 required to transfer to ND
133 required to transfer to DC

Was really hoping I'd see my actual score... at least I now know I topped 1500 though.

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Bla Bla Bla Blah

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Re: 2018 February CA Bar

Post by Bla Bla Bla Blah » Fri May 25, 2018 10:33 am

Also, did anyone who passed get more insight than I did into passing scores? I really wish I knew how I did on the test, but essentially, all I got was a "congrats" and "you should be proud of yourself"...."now go swear in."

Nightcrawler

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Re: 2018 February CA Bar

Post by Nightcrawler » Fri May 25, 2018 10:55 am

Bla Bla Bla Blah wrote:
aladdinsane wrote:
hope2018 wrote:
Thank you for your post. How can I request my scores from NCBE?
http://www.ncbex.org/ncbe-exam-score-se ... -services/
Just did this, and for CA they only release "score advisories" (for three jurisdictions, i.e., 3 different score advisory documents). It looks something like:

Your MBE scaled score meets or exceeds the miniminum scaled score requirements of:

145 required to transfer to MN
150 required to transfer to ND
133 required to transfer to DC

Was really hoping I'd see my actual score... at least I now know I topped 1500 though.
Wow that's great! May I ask what you used to prepare for the MBE?

bpnichol1

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Re: 2018 February CA Bar

Post by bpnichol1 » Fri May 25, 2018 11:31 am

Wow, not sure what to make of these "graders". I scored in 80th percentile for MBE but they failed me on every essay. This is included a 45 on a question which I had analyzed in some detail and felt I had gotten mostly correct.

I never practiced writing any essays (though I read many). I did not feel compelled to spoon-feed the graders with lengthy, repetitive, and anally structured essays. While I know I did not hit every issue, my essays were focused and to the point. I guess I made the mistake of relying solely on the fact that I've been practicing almost 20 years (in Canada) and know how to write and analyze the law (which I do every day!). Was my approach so wrong? Apparently for the delicate geniuses at the Cal Bar, it was.

In my view, when there is such an apparent disconnect between MBE scores and essay scores, that's a Cal Bar problem, not a law school problem. These guys need to get their act together. The ridiculously named and L. Ron Hubbard-esque "Productive Mindset Intervention Program" is a shameless cosmetic measure that will not address the root of the problem.

Nightcrawler

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Re: 2018 February CA Bar

Post by Nightcrawler » Fri May 25, 2018 12:01 pm

bpnichol1 wrote:Wow, not sure what to make of these "graders". I scored in 80th percentile for MBE but they failed me on every essay. This is included a 45 on a question which I had analyzed in some detail and felt I had gotten mostly correct.

I never practiced writing any essays (though I read many). I did not feel compelled to spoon-feed the graders with lengthy, repetitive, and anally structured essays. While I know I did not hit every issue, my essays were focused and to the point. I guess I made the mistake of relying solely on the fact that I've been practicing almost 20 years (in Canada) and know how to write and analyze the law (which I do every day!). Was my approach so wrong? Apparently for the delicate geniuses at the Cal Bar, it was.

In my view, when there is such an apparent disconnect between MBE scores and essay scores, that's a Cal Bar problem, not a law school problem. These guys need to get their act together. The ridiculously named and L. Ron Hubbard-esque "Productive Mindset Intervention Program" is a shameless cosmetic measure that will not address the root of the problem.
Ahahah L. Ron Hubbard-esque killed me. And I totally agree, they are just taking time trying to shift the focus from the real problem. There is a fun post about that bullshit mindset program in the July 2018 CA Bar, I suggest you go read it to better understand how it (doesn't) work.

Anyway, congrats on your MBE. I had the opposite problem as you did. I was never a lawyer and still was able to get a 1440 on the written part while failing the MBE. I'm not here to tell you how to write as a lawyer because, unlike you, I know nothing about it (thanks to school and lack of practice) but I am going to tell you what I did. You basically want to write as if you were writing for a 5 year old who is autistic and rocking back and forth on a chair holding his ear with one hand. You want to obnoxiously follow the IRAC method in a very boring, robotic way and maybe then they will be able to see that you talked about a sufficient number of issues to land you a 65-70. If you combine that method with checklists that will help you write about anything possibly relevant while staying within your time limit and you are good. Needless to say, you need to structure the essay/PT in a responsive way. And that's it. I got a 45 too on my first bar exam try (feb 17) and slowly I improved using this method. It's not bullet proof because the grader's mood and level on the spectrum is a factor, however that's all we can do apart from knowing the law cold.

With that said, what did you use to get such a high MBE score? I have the opposite problem as you and trying to figure out why I plateaued on 1330.

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bpnichol1

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Re: 2018 February CA Bar

Post by bpnichol1 » Fri May 25, 2018 12:16 pm

Nightcrawler wrote:
bpnichol1 wrote:Wow, not sure what to make of these "graders". I scored in 80th percentile for MBE but they failed me on every essay. This is included a 45 on a question which I had analyzed in some detail and felt I had gotten mostly correct.

I never practiced writing any essays (though I read many). I did not feel compelled to spoon-feed the graders with lengthy, repetitive, and anally structured essays. While I know I did not hit every issue, my essays were focused and to the point. I guess I made the mistake of relying solely on the fact that I've been practicing almost 20 years (in Canada) and know how to write and analyze the law (which I do every day!). Was my approach so wrong? Apparently for the delicate geniuses at the Cal Bar, it was.

In my view, when there is such an apparent disconnect between MBE scores and essay scores, that's a Cal Bar problem, not a law school problem. These guys need to get their act together. The ridiculously named and L. Ron Hubbard-esque "Productive Mindset Intervention Program" is a shameless cosmetic measure that will not address the root of the problem.
Ahahah L. Ron Hubbard-esque killed me. And I totally agree, they are just taking time trying to shift the focus from the real problem. There is a fun post about that bullshit mindset program in the July 2018 CA Bar, I suggest you go read it to better understand how it (doesn't) work.

Anyway, congrats on your MBE. I had the opposite problem as you did. I was never a lawyer and still was able to get a 1440 on the written part while failing the MBE. I'm not here to tell you how to write as a lawyer because, unlike you, I know nothing about it (thanks to school and lack of practice) but I am going to tell you what I did. You basically want to write as if you were writing for a 5 year old who is autistic and rocking back and forth on a chair holding his ear with one hand. You want to obnoxiously follow the IRAC method in a very boring, robotic way and maybe then they will be able to see that you talked about a sufficient number of issues to land you a 65-70. If you combine that method with checklists that will help you write about anything possibly relevant while staying within your time limit and you are good. Needless to say, you need to structure the essay/PT in a responsive way. And that's it. I got a 45 too on my first bar exam try (feb 17) and slowly I improved using this method. It's not bullet proof because the grader's mood and level on the spectrum is a factor, however that's all we can do apart from knowing the law cold.

With that said, what did you use to get such a high MBE score? I have the opposite problem as you and trying to figure out why I plateaued on 1330.

Thanks, I appreciate the advice and will certainly use it. I'm planning on writing again in July although I remain skeptical that the end result will be any different. Not a matter of lacking self-confidence, just lacking faith in humanity (in the form of Cal bar bureaucrats and their minions who do the grading). With respect to the MBE, I began studying during Xmas and so, given the compressed timeframe and due to how busy work was, I just read and re-read the Barbri Conviser. This time, however, I plan to read the larger Barbri book in light of the fact that the Feb exam raised some obscure issues that I didn't recall reading in the Conviser. I'm also considering Adaptibar since many here have recommended it.

LockBox

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Re: 2018 February CA Bar

Post by LockBox » Fri May 25, 2018 12:20 pm

bpnichol1 wrote:Wow, not sure what to make of these "graders". I scored in 80th percentile for MBE but they failed me on every essay. This is included a 45 on a question which I had analyzed in some detail and felt I had gotten mostly correct.

I never practiced writing any essays (though I read many). I did not feel compelled to spoon-feed the graders with lengthy, repetitive, and anally structured essays. While I know I did not hit every issue, my essays were focused and to the point. I guess I made the mistake of relying solely on the fact that I've been practicing almost 20 years (in Canada) and know how to write and analyze the law (which I do every day!). Was my approach so wrong? Apparently for the delicate geniuses at the Cal Bar, it was.

In my view, when there is such an apparent disconnect between MBE scores and essay scores, that's a Cal Bar problem, not a law school problem. These guys need to get their act together. The ridiculously named and L. Ron Hubbard-esque "Productive Mindset Intervention Program" is a shameless cosmetic measure that will not address the root of the problem.
No offense, but it seems like the bar is doing something right by failing you. Jump on the hate-the-calbar bandwagon, but if you're scoring a 45 on an essay you think you nailed then you really need to take a look at yourself and writing ability. The issue is even worse if you scored that well on the MBE but scored a 45 on an essay because you apparently know the law, it would appear, but write so poorly that despite knowledge of the law... I don't even know how this would be possible.

Here is my advice, from one lawyer to another. If you have actually practiced for 20 years take this as an opportunity to improve your craft - not blame someone else for your own shortcomings. Delicate geniuses at the bar? I think you're the one coming off as the delicate genius. Next time, take a few practice essays and then grade yourself against the model answer. Unless, you know, you'll just criticize the model and think your essay should be the standard...

bpnichol1

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Re: 2018 February CA Bar

Post by bpnichol1 » Fri May 25, 2018 12:25 pm

bpnichol1 wrote:
Nightcrawler wrote:
bpnichol1 wrote:Wow, not sure what to make of these "graders". I scored in 80th percentile for MBE but they failed me on every essay. This is included a 45 on a question which I had analyzed in some detail and felt I had gotten mostly correct.

I never practiced writing any essays (though I read many). I did not feel compelled to spoon-feed the graders with lengthy, repetitive, and anally structured essays. While I know I did not hit every issue, my essays were focused and to the point. I guess I made the mistake of relying solely on the fact that I've been practicing almost 20 years (in Canada) and know how to write and analyze the law (which I do every day!). Was my approach so wrong? Apparently for the delicate geniuses at the Cal Bar, it was.

In my view, when there is such an apparent disconnect between MBE scores and essay scores, that's a Cal Bar problem, not a law school problem. These guys need to get their act together. The ridiculously named and L. Ron Hubbard-esque "Productive Mindset Intervention Program" is a shameless cosmetic measure that will not address the root of the problem.
Ahahah L. Ron Hubbard-esque killed me. And I totally agree, they are just taking time trying to shift the focus from the real problem. There is a fun post about that bullshit mindset program in the July 2018 CA Bar, I suggest you go read it to better understand how it (doesn't) work.

Anyway, congrats on your MBE. I had the opposite problem as you did. I was never a lawyer and still was able to get a 1440 on the written part while failing the MBE. I'm not here to tell you how to write as a lawyer because, unlike you, I know nothing about it (thanks to school and lack of practice) but I am going to tell you what I did. You basically want to write as if you were writing for a 5 year old who is autistic and rocking back and forth on a chair holding his ear with one hand. You want to obnoxiously follow the IRAC method in a very boring, robotic way and maybe then they will be able to see that you talked about a sufficient number of issues to land you a 65-70. If you combine that method with checklists that will help you write about anything possibly relevant while staying within your time limit and you are good. Needless to say, you need to structure the essay/PT in a responsive way. And that's it. I got a 45 too on my first bar exam try (feb 17) and slowly I improved using this method. It's not bullet proof because the grader's mood and level on the spectrum is a factor, however that's all we can do apart from knowing the law cold.

With that said, what did you use to get such a high MBE score? I have the opposite problem as you and trying to figure out why I plateaued on 1330.

Thanks, I appreciate the advice and will certainly use it. I'm planning on writing again in July although I remain skeptical that the end result will be any different. Not a matter of lacking self-confidence, just lacking faith in humanity (in the form of Cal bar bureaucrats and their minions who do the grading). With respect to the MBE, I began studying during Xmas and so, given the compressed timeframe and due to how busy work was, I just read and re-read the Barbri Conviser. This time, however, I plan to read the larger Barbri book in light of the fact that the Feb exam raised some obscure issues that I didn't recall reading in the Conviser. I'm also considering Adaptibar since many here have recommended it.
I forgot to mention that I also did the Barbri MBE test questions and carefully read the answer explanations, even for questions I answered correctly.

bpnichol1

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Re: 2018 February CA Bar

Post by bpnichol1 » Fri May 25, 2018 12:32 pm

LockBox wrote:
bpnichol1 wrote:Wow, not sure what to make of these "graders". I scored in 80th percentile for MBE but they failed me on every essay. This is included a 45 on a question which I had analyzed in some detail and felt I had gotten mostly correct.

I never practiced writing any essays (though I read many). I did not feel compelled to spoon-feed the graders with lengthy, repetitive, and anally structured essays. While I know I did not hit every issue, my essays were focused and to the point. I guess I made the mistake of relying solely on the fact that I've been practicing almost 20 years (in Canada) and know how to write and analyze the law (which I do every day!). Was my approach so wrong? Apparently for the delicate geniuses at the Cal Bar, it was.

In my view, when there is such an apparent disconnect between MBE scores and essay scores, that's a Cal Bar problem, not a law school problem. These guys need to get their act together. The ridiculously named and L. Ron Hubbard-esque "Productive Mindset Intervention Program" is a shameless cosmetic measure that will not address the root of the problem.
No offense, but it seems like the bar is doing something right by failing you. Jump on the hate-the-calbar bandwagon, but if you're scoring a 45 on an essay you think you nailed then you really need to take a look at yourself and writing ability. The issue is even worse if you scored that well on the MBE but scored a 45 on an essay because you apparently know the law, it would appear, but write so poorly that despite knowledge of the law... I don't even know how this would be possible.

Here is my advice, from one lawyer to another. If you have actually practiced for 20 years take this as an opportunity to improve your craft - not blame someone else for your own shortcomings. Delicate geniuses at the bar? I think you're the one coming off as the delicate genius. Next time, take a few practice essays and then grade yourself against the model answer. Unless, you know, you'll just criticize the model and think your essay should be the standard...
No offence taken. I understand where you're coming from - but you're wrong. I'd be happy to email you copies of written legal arguments I've filed so you can see for yourself. I don't believe it's about "improving my craft", it's about appeasing a Bar which in my opinion has a flawed approach to assessing "competence".

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Re: 2018 February CA Bar

Post by Bla Bla Bla Blah » Fri May 25, 2018 12:41 pm

Nightcrawler wrote:
Bla Bla Bla Blah wrote:
aladdinsane wrote:
hope2018 wrote:
Thank you for your post. How can I request my scores from NCBE?
http://www.ncbex.org/ncbe-exam-score-se ... -services/
Just did this, and for CA they only release "score advisories" (for three jurisdictions, i.e., 3 different score advisory documents). It looks something like:

Your MBE scaled score meets or exceeds the miniminum scaled score requirements of:

145 required to transfer to MN
150 required to transfer to ND
133 required to transfer to DC

Was really hoping I'd see my actual score... at least I now know I topped 1500 though.
Wow that's great! May I ask what you used to prepare for the MBE?
I used Adaptibar, which I like to tell people turned into a game on my phone (in a sense). I'd often do sets of 10 to 15 at a time, over and over again. This was helpful because at the end of 10 to 15, I still had a good recollection of the fact patterns and my reasoning when reviewing the Adaptibar explanations. When I didn't want to set up a 10 to 15 set (laziness really) I'd do the one by one version where it would go to immediately telling me the answer right afterwords (and I did do an initial 100 at my computer to know my timing was there, so not saying I did everything on my phone, however 80 percent probably was). I'd test on my phone almost everywhere when I could, but since my focus was on review (quality) and not simply the quantity of the answers I answered, I didn't even answer more than 800 questions (the fact that I had a little under 3 weeks to prepare had something to do with that stat too if I'm honest).

I felt that the advantage to this was that I was reviewing the analysis (and my timing in answering certain questions) while the fact pattern was still fresh in my head (similar to flash card review). The feeling that you get when you thought you answered correctly, only to see that red X mark, kind of made the analysis stick in my brain a little more when I read the "why you got it wrong" and "correct answer" explanations.

When I'd burn out from this, I would turn on an MP3 course lecture to beat the general rules into my head, or flick through a subject section of my Critical Pass flashcards throwing them into the box lid. All of this created some sense of relaxation and taking care of myself while I was studying. When I didn't have to sit at a computer and test (which was mostly just to see if Examsoft worked correctly by writing essay answers into it, or to outline essay answers in Word) or pour over my CA subject outlines or my Essay Writing book (which though I'm a very good writer, taught me a great system and took the guesswork out of how to deliver my answers to graders), I could float in a hot tub for hours testing Adaptibar on my phone while drinking cold beers, or take a power nap mid-day with lunch while listening to a lecture, or flick through an MBE subject while laying in bed at night.

Eventually my timing and knowledge (both broadly from the MP3 lectures and Critical Pass cards, and narrowly through those God forsaken MBE questions) was complete. I also decided that, since nothing was interrupting my logical train of thought when testing Adaptibar, I would make the actual test as similar to that as possible. So instead of interrupting this thought process by bubbling after every few questions (which likely saved some time as well, since doing all the bubbles at the same time meant I lost less time from shifting gears between tasks repeatedly and could give 100 percent focus to making sure everything was marked on my scantron correctly), I decided to bubble after reading and indicating the correct answers in my test booklet (deciding that, worst case scenario, at the 5 min mark I would start bubbling my scantron if I was not entirely finished... bubbling guesses for the unfinished answers before starting this process just in case). I was done with 15min to spare for review on the first MBE 100. I had two left at the 5min mark during the second MBE 100... and still had 3min left to review my questions denoted with a "?" after bubbling everything in at the warning.

Hope this insight helps. It was definitely a break from the standard big box course pile-it-on approach. But I found that my approach left me confident, free from overload and burnout, and (at the end of the day) ready to swear in as an attorney.

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Re: 2018 February CA Bar

Post by JohnnieSockran » Fri May 25, 2018 12:54 pm

bpnichol1 wrote:
LockBox wrote:
bpnichol1 wrote:Wow, not sure what to make of these "graders". I scored in 80th percentile for MBE but they failed me on every essay. This is included a 45 on a question which I had analyzed in some detail and felt I had gotten mostly correct.

I never practiced writing any essays (though I read many). I did not feel compelled to spoon-feed the graders with lengthy, repetitive, and anally structured essays. While I know I did not hit every issue, my essays were focused and to the point. I guess I made the mistake of relying solely on the fact that I've been practicing almost 20 years (in Canada) and know how to write and analyze the law (which I do every day!). Was my approach so wrong? Apparently for the delicate geniuses at the Cal Bar, it was.

In my view, when there is such an apparent disconnect between MBE scores and essay scores, that's a Cal Bar problem, not a law school problem. These guys need to get their act together. The ridiculously named and L. Ron Hubbard-esque "Productive Mindset Intervention Program" is a shameless cosmetic measure that will not address the root of the problem.
No offense, but it seems like the bar is doing something right by failing you. Jump on the hate-the-calbar bandwagon, but if you're scoring a 45 on an essay you think you nailed then you really need to take a look at yourself and writing ability. The issue is even worse if you scored that well on the MBE but scored a 45 on an essay because you apparently know the law, it would appear, but write so poorly that despite knowledge of the law... I don't even know how this would be possible.

Here is my advice, from one lawyer to another. If you have actually practiced for 20 years take this as an opportunity to improve your craft - not blame someone else for your own shortcomings. Delicate geniuses at the bar? I think you're the one coming off as the delicate genius. Next time, take a few practice essays and then grade yourself against the model answer. Unless, you know, you'll just criticize the model and think your essay should be the standard...
No offence taken. I understand where you're coming from - but you're wrong. I'd be happy to email you copies of written legal arguments I've filed so you can see for yourself. I don't believe it's about "improving my craft", it's about appeasing a Bar which in my opinion has a flawed approach to assessing "competence".
Sure, maybe the CA Bar Examiners/Graders are flawed and the bar is unrealistically hard just to keep attorneys out. But, until you check your ego and attitude at the door, California is not going to let you practice here.

Writing for the bar is not the same as writing in practice, so you just have to accept that. If you want to pass in July, you need to start ACTUALLY WRITING OUT FULL PRACTICE ESSAYS, and do a shit ton of them. I can't stress that enough, and it probably makes sense to find a good course/tutor/look at sample answers. I'd probably recommend the tutor route, at least to grade a few essays here and there, because at least at this point, you seem more angry at the bar exam, and are not truly taking an introspective look at what you could've done better.

45 is a terrible essay score. If you knew the law, poor writing/organization is the only explanation.

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Re: 2018 February CA Bar

Post by bpnichol1 » Fri May 25, 2018 1:41 pm

JohnnieSockran wrote:
bpnichol1 wrote:
LockBox wrote:
bpnichol1 wrote:Wow, not sure what to make of these "graders". I scored in 80th percentile for MBE but they failed me on every essay. This is included a 45 on a question which I had analyzed in some detail and felt I had gotten mostly correct.

I never practiced writing any essays (though I read many). I did not feel compelled to spoon-feed the graders with lengthy, repetitive, and anally structured essays. While I know I did not hit every issue, my essays were focused and to the point. I guess I made the mistake of relying solely on the fact that I've been practicing almost 20 years (in Canada) and know how to write and analyze the law (which I do every day!). Was my approach so wrong? Apparently for the delicate geniuses at the Cal Bar, it was.

In my view, when there is such an apparent disconnect between MBE scores and essay scores, that's a Cal Bar problem, not a law school problem. These guys need to get their act together. The ridiculously named and L. Ron Hubbard-esque "Productive Mindset Intervention Program" is a shameless cosmetic measure that will not address the root of the problem.
No offense, but it seems like the bar is doing something right by failing you. Jump on the hate-the-calbar bandwagon, but if you're scoring a 45 on an essay you think you nailed then you really need to take a look at yourself and writing ability. The issue is even worse if you scored that well on the MBE but scored a 45 on an essay because you apparently know the law, it would appear, but write so poorly that despite knowledge of the law... I don't even know how this would be possible.

Here is my advice, from one lawyer to another. If you have actually practiced for 20 years take this as an opportunity to improve your craft - not blame someone else for your own shortcomings. Delicate geniuses at the bar? I think you're the one coming off as the delicate genius. Next time, take a few practice essays and then grade yourself against the model answer. Unless, you know, you'll just criticize the model and think your essay should be the standard...
No offence taken. I understand where you're coming from - but you're wrong. I'd be happy to email you copies of written legal arguments I've filed so you can see for yourself. I don't believe it's about "improving my craft", it's about appeasing a Bar which in my opinion has a flawed approach to assessing "competence".
Sure, maybe the CA Bar Examiners/Graders are flawed and the bar is unrealistically hard just to keep attorneys out. But, until you check your ego and attitude at the door, California is not going to let you practice here.

Writing for the bar is not the same as writing in practice, so you just have to accept that. If you want to pass in July, you need to start ACTUALLY WRITING OUT FULL PRACTICE ESSAYS, and do a shit ton of them. I can't stress that enough, and it probably makes sense to find a good course/tutor/look at sample answers. I'd probably recommend the tutor route, at least to grade a few essays here and there, because at least at this point, you seem more angry at the bar exam, and are not truly taking an introspective look at what you could've done better.

45 is a terrible essay score. If you knew the law, poor writing/organization is the only explanation.
Not angry, just incredulous about how they choose to evaluate one approach as "poor" versus another. From what I've read, on this forum and elsewhere, my criticism has some validity. I didn't intend to come off as having an ego or bad attitude moving forward. I recognize that I need to give them what they want (as fanciful as that is) and I'll aim to do so.

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Re: 2018 February CA Bar

Post by redmessengerbag » Fri May 25, 2018 2:25 pm

Quick Thought

PT: If you can't do a PT on the fly, you'll probably not do well on essays.

PT is the easiest section in my opinion, if you don't know how to do it, really practice organization and IRAC structure. You've written legal memos in school, you know how to write them, if you're not sure, go talk to your legal writing professor, they'll help you. No bar exam prep course is gonna be able to help if you can't IRAC and really hammer the A home. PT is pure IRAC, and all of the information you need is given to you, you just read and puke it back out at them, in an orderly fashion of course. I didn't do one practice and I know I scored high on the Feb 18 PT (I'm happy I will not find out). Ok fine, Jul 17 bar was my PT practice.

On the Jul 17 PT, I didn't even read the law library of the PT (I was stupid, because I couldn't find it), But I got one 65 and one 60, citing rules based on the little knowledge I had from Con Law and CrimPro Law, organizing my answers and properly IRACing is key.

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Re: 2018 February CA Bar

Post by bpnichol1 » Fri May 25, 2018 2:28 pm

redmessengerbag wrote:Quick Thought

PT: If you can't do a PT on the fly, you'll probably not do well on essays.

PT is the easiest section in my opinion, if you don't know how to do it, really practice organization and IRAC structure. You've written legal memos in school, you know how to write them, if you're not sure, go talk to your legal writing professor, they'll help you. No bar exam prep course is gonna be able to help if you can't IRAC and really hammer the A home. PT is pure IRAC, and all of the information you need is given to you, you just read and puke it back out at them, in an orderly fashion of course. I didn't do one practice and I know I scored high on the Feb 18 PT (I'm happy I will not find out). Ok fine, Jul 17 bar was my PT practice.

On the Jul 17 PT, I didn't even read the law library of the PT (I was stupid, because I couldn't find it), But I got one 65 and one 60, citing rules based on the little knowledge I had from Con Law and CrimPro Law, organizing my answers and properly IRACing is key.
Thanks, I actually got 65 on the PT. I didn't mean to lump that in with the five essays (all of which were 55 or below).

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Re: 2018 February CA Bar

Post by redmessengerbag » Fri May 25, 2018 2:39 pm

I can't believe I just paid $25 to NCBE to get a MBE score advisory just because I'm so curious how well I scored on the MBE. I thought I did really poorly on the MBE, but I was very confident about my written portion.

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Re: 2018 February CA Bar

Post by Bla Bla Bla Blah » Fri May 25, 2018 2:49 pm

redmessengerbag wrote:I can't believe I just paid $25 to NCBE to get a MBE score advisory just because I'm so curious how well I scored on the MBE. I thought I did really poorly on the MBE, but I was very confident about my written portion.
Hahaha, believe it my friend!

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Re: 2018 February CA Bar

Post by shawnbertrand » Sat May 26, 2018 3:15 pm

bpnichol1 wrote:Wow, not sure what to make of these "graders". I scored in 80th percentile for MBE but they failed me on every essay. This is included a 45 on a question which I had analyzed in some detail and felt I had gotten mostly correct.

I never practiced writing any essays (though I read many). I did not feel compelled to spoon-feed the graders with lengthy, repetitive, and anally structured essays. While I know I did not hit every issue, my essays were focused and to the point. I guess I made the mistake of relying solely on the fact that I've been practicing almost 20 years (in Canada) and know how to write and analyze the law (which I do every day!). Was my approach so wrong? Apparently for the delicate geniuses at the Cal Bar, it was.

In my view, when there is such an apparent disconnect between MBE scores and essay scores, that's a Cal Bar problem, not a law school problem. These guys need to get their act together. The ridiculously named and L. Ron Hubbard-esque "Productive Mindset Intervention Program" is a shameless cosmetic measure that will not address the root of the problem.
Same situation for me. 86th percentile on the MBE, 1346 on essays - missed passing by 12 pts. That's a passing score by a MILE in every state except CA and Delaware. You're 100% correct - there is a disconnect. Should CA have be allowed to have a high standard for entry into the profession? Absolutely. But there is no way that the standard to pass the CBX is "minimum competence". The grading is inconsistent and too subjective.

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Re: 2018 February CA Bar

Post by shawnbertrand » Sat May 26, 2018 3:25 pm

justanotheruser wrote:
Snowflake1 wrote:
chicoalto0649 wrote:
Nightcrawler wrote:
scard wrote:got my scores..

1st read/second/op

essay 1: 55/50/52.5
essay 2: 60/60/60
essay 3: 55/55/55
essay 4: 60/55/57.5
essay 5: 50/50/50
PT: 65/65/65

Raw Written: 405.0
Scaled written: 1299.7064
Scaled MBE: 1476.0000

my MBE improved a few points, my PT improved, but my essays dropped slightly form July 17
Still waiting on my letter. Can I ask you which area you are located in? Congrats on the MBE btw, this was a tough one.
That's a tough one. Based on the current scale you prob needed to have a 1550+ to give yourself a chance of passing. How many MBEs did you do this time around and how did you prepare? I feel it's the one part of the exam that's more within your control than essays. As far as essays are concerned I think I failed before because of a misguided preoccupation with memorizing the perfect rule statement and in turn relying on outlines as opposed to actual practice essays. I think on the most recent exam, straight 60s + a 1515 would have been enough to snag a P.
I had a 1611 MBE and failed last July 2017. Do not gamble on the essays or bet the MBE will take you over the edge. Practice essays every day. The advice above on comparing your essays to real graded ones that scored 55, 65, 75 (and then figuring out what you did right and wrong) on BarEssays is very good. That's basically what I did too.
I had a 1500 MBE and failed last July 2017 as well. Finally passed last week thanks in large part to improving on the PT as well as putting in the requisite work/practice on essays. I would second the BarEssays recommendation along with the Mary Basick Essays Study Guide (big blue book). Continually betting on just my MBE performance got me nowhere, so I really changed things up and decided to grind through essays and the PT this time.

YMMV, but I did not do any rote memorization of rule statements. I did write full essays (open book and a 2-hour limit) for my very first 2-3 essays on every subject. Then I outlined the next 7-8 essays for each subject. In the last 2 weeks leading up to the exam, I basically did issue spotting which allowed me to get through 7-8 essays a day.

Probably the biggest thing was referring to real essays on BarEssays. It showed me things I was frequently missing, it reminded me there's only a finite number of issues passing essays actually cover, and it revealed how even the better scoring essays still had tons of mistakes, etc.
Such respect for both of you - those are great MBE scores (esp the 1611). I got a 1510 (1346 essays) and am having a hard time accepting that even knowing the black letter law as well as I did, still not a passing score. How did you get past that, and move on?

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Re: 2018 February CA Bar

Post by Nightcrawler » Sat May 26, 2018 6:14 pm

shawnbertrand wrote:
justanotheruser wrote:
Snowflake1 wrote:
chicoalto0649 wrote:
Nightcrawler wrote:
scard wrote:got my scores..

1st read/second/op

essay 1: 55/50/52.5
essay 2: 60/60/60
essay 3: 55/55/55
essay 4: 60/55/57.5
essay 5: 50/50/50
PT: 65/65/65

Raw Written: 405.0
Scaled written: 1299.7064
Scaled MBE: 1476.0000

my MBE improved a few points, my PT improved, but my essays dropped slightly form July 17
Still waiting on my letter. Can I ask you which area you are located in? Congrats on the MBE btw, this was a tough one.
That's a tough one. Based on the current scale you prob needed to have a 1550+ to give yourself a chance of passing. How many MBEs did you do this time around and how did you prepare? I feel it's the one part of the exam that's more within your control than essays. As far as essays are concerned I think I failed before because of a misguided preoccupation with memorizing the perfect rule statement and in turn relying on outlines as opposed to actual practice essays. I think on the most recent exam, straight 60s + a 1515 would have been enough to snag a P.
I had a 1611 MBE and failed last July 2017. Do not gamble on the essays or bet the MBE will take you over the edge. Practice essays every day. The advice above on comparing your essays to real graded ones that scored 55, 65, 75 (and then figuring out what you did right and wrong) on BarEssays is very good. That's basically what I did too.
I had a 1500 MBE and failed last July 2017 as well. Finally passed last week thanks in large part to improving on the PT as well as putting in the requisite work/practice on essays. I would second the BarEssays recommendation along with the Mary Basick Essays Study Guide (big blue book). Continually betting on just my MBE performance got me nowhere, so I really changed things up and decided to grind through essays and the PT this time.

YMMV, but I did not do any rote memorization of rule statements. I did write full essays (open book and a 2-hour limit) for my very first 2-3 essays on every subject. Then I outlined the next 7-8 essays for each subject. In the last 2 weeks leading up to the exam, I basically did issue spotting which allowed me to get through 7-8 essays a day.

Probably the biggest thing was referring to real essays on BarEssays. It showed me things I was frequently missing, it reminded me there's only a finite number of issues passing essays actually cover, and it revealed how even the better scoring essays still had tons of mistakes, etc.
Such respect for both of you - those are great MBE scores (esp the 1611). I got a 1510 (1346 essays) and am having a hard time accepting that even knowing the black letter law as well as I did, still not a passing score. How did you get past that, and move on?
I feel like the problem of people who get high MBE scores and low written scores saying that they know the law is that they don't spot enough issues to talk about. Issues that if you spotted, you knew how to IRAC easily because of your knowledge of BLL. If you get those MBE scores, I'm sure you know more law than I did and still I got a 1440 on the written portion (and I know it because I got a mere 1330 something on the MBE, failing the whole thing). What I did, after failing the written portion multiple times, was having memorized checklists that covered ALL issues that could appean in that subject. That helped a little bit I think because there were so many moments during the exam where if it wasn't for my checklist in my head telling me that I had to talk about issue X, I wouldn't have talked about it missing precious points. I was getting lower scores just writing about issues that were coming up to my mind almost randomly looking at the fact pattern last July. Not by coincidence, the only 55 I got this time was in a subject where I didn't have a checklist memorized for lack of time (Crim Law, easy subject too btw).

With that said, what did you do to achieve a 1500+ on the MBE?

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Re: 2018 February CA Bar

Post by a male human » Sat May 26, 2018 7:11 pm

Nightcrawler wrote:
shawnbertrand wrote:
justanotheruser wrote:
Snowflake1 wrote:
chicoalto0649 wrote:
Nightcrawler wrote:
scard wrote:got my scores..

1st read/second/op

essay 1: 55/50/52.5
essay 2: 60/60/60
essay 3: 55/55/55
essay 4: 60/55/57.5
essay 5: 50/50/50
PT: 65/65/65

Raw Written: 405.0
Scaled written: 1299.7064
Scaled MBE: 1476.0000

my MBE improved a few points, my PT improved, but my essays dropped slightly form July 17
Still waiting on my letter. Can I ask you which area you are located in? Congrats on the MBE btw, this was a tough one.
That's a tough one. Based on the current scale you prob needed to have a 1550+ to give yourself a chance of passing. How many MBEs did you do this time around and how did you prepare? I feel it's the one part of the exam that's more within your control than essays. As far as essays are concerned I think I failed before because of a misguided preoccupation with memorizing the perfect rule statement and in turn relying on outlines as opposed to actual practice essays. I think on the most recent exam, straight 60s + a 1515 would have been enough to snag a P.
I had a 1611 MBE and failed last July 2017. Do not gamble on the essays or bet the MBE will take you over the edge. Practice essays every day. The advice above on comparing your essays to real graded ones that scored 55, 65, 75 (and then figuring out what you did right and wrong) on BarEssays is very good. That's basically what I did too.
I had a 1500 MBE and failed last July 2017 as well. Finally passed last week thanks in large part to improving on the PT as well as putting in the requisite work/practice on essays. I would second the BarEssays recommendation along with the Mary Basick Essays Study Guide (big blue book). Continually betting on just my MBE performance got me nowhere, so I really changed things up and decided to grind through essays and the PT this time.

YMMV, but I did not do any rote memorization of rule statements. I did write full essays (open book and a 2-hour limit) for my very first 2-3 essays on every subject. Then I outlined the next 7-8 essays for each subject. In the last 2 weeks leading up to the exam, I basically did issue spotting which allowed me to get through 7-8 essays a day.

Probably the biggest thing was referring to real essays on BarEssays. It showed me things I was frequently missing, it reminded me there's only a finite number of issues passing essays actually cover, and it revealed how even the better scoring essays still had tons of mistakes, etc.
Such respect for both of you - those are great MBE scores (esp the 1611). I got a 1510 (1346 essays) and am having a hard time accepting that even knowing the black letter law as well as I did, still not a passing score. How did you get past that, and move on?
I feel like the problem of people who get high MBE scores and low written scores saying that they know the law is that they don't spot enough issues to talk about. Issues that if you spotted, you knew how to IRAC easily because of your knowledge of BLL. If you get those MBE scores, I'm sure you know more law than I did and still I got a 1440 on the written portion (and I know it because I got a mere 1330 something on the MBE, failing the whole thing). What I did, after failing the written portion multiple times, was having memorized checklists that covered ALL issues that could appean in that subject. That helped a little bit I think because there were so many moments during the exam where if it wasn't for my checklist in my head telling me that I had to talk about issue X, I wouldn't have talked about it missing precious points. I was getting lower scores just writing about issues that were coming up to my mind almost randomly looking at the fact pattern last July. Not by coincidence, the only 55 I got this time was in a subject where I didn't have a checklist memorized for lack of time (Crim Law, easy subject too btw).

With that said, what did you do to achieve a 1500+ on the MBE?
I think you're spot on. This chart might assist anyone else trying to interpret their scores:

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justanotheruser

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Re: 2018 February CA Bar

Post by justanotheruser » Sat May 26, 2018 7:41 pm

shawnbertrand wrote: Such respect for both of you - those are great MBE scores (esp the 1611). I got a 1510 (1346 essays) and am having a hard time accepting that even knowing the black letter law as well as I did, still not a passing score. How did you get past that, and move on?
I read that as asking how did I 'move on' failing despite high/great MBE scores.

Honestly, it was encouraging if anything. Like, wow, I'm this close with my MBEs which means I can probably pass the thing if I put concerted effort/focus into the written portions. My circumstances may be different, but what killed me in July '17 was getting a 50 on the PT (mis-managed my time and only had 20-30 minutes by the time I got to the PT). Considering how close I got in July, it gave me encouragement/strength to give it my all in the written portion (while not ignoring the MBEs) in preparing for the Feb '18 exam.

Seriously? What are you waiting for?

Now there's a charge.
Just kidding ... it's still FREE!


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