Character and fitness concern regarding address Forum

[Nebby]

Can you please elaborate on two things: (1) why is public perception of lawyers the determining factor of who gets to practice?; (2) how does allowing felons to practice law harm public perception of lawyers?

No; I expressed an opinion, you didn't. You are just asking a likely endless cycle of questions. I will respond If you (1) make a reasonable defense of felons being allowed to practice law, and (2) state which felonies have no bearing on the practice of law.

The burden of persuasion lies at the foot of the one making an assertion. It was you who initially asserted that felons shouldn't be able to practice. It's your job to prove it. You can admit that you have no real reason for it other than conjecture, you can actually explain your reasoning, or you can evade and instead attempt to shift the burden to me.

It's apparent that you are self-aware enough to realize the incompetency of your opinion and opted to instead evade and attempt to shift the burden.

Unless you're willing to actually support your initial assertion, then I think we're done here. See Proverbs 26:4

ClubberLang gave you a legitimate response, and you respond by being a fucking douchebag.

Good work Nebby. I didn't think it was possible, but losing your virginity has made you even more insufferable

It was a vacuous response.

If by "being a fucking douchebag" you mean pointing out the response's lack of substance or reason, then yes; I was being a fucking douchebag.

[Nebby]

ITT ppl assert things and then get mad af when people point out their obvious flaws

more news at 11

[A. Nony Mouse]

Plenty of felonies have no bearing on the practice of law. Like how does possession of weed at some point say you can't be a decent lawyer? Barring the assumption that a felony is per se disqualifying, what felonies do you think should preclude someone? Do you think no one ever actually rehabilitates themselves after a conviction?

The comparison with DUIs is weird because I feel pretty sure that 1) the person who has to provide info about a past DUI passes c&f without much difficulty and 2) Hopwood had to provide a heck of a lot more information and jump through more hoops than someone with a DUI in their past.

What an absurd response.

Possession of marijuana isn't a felony in pretty much all but 4 or 5 states, unless you have a significant amount on you.

On the other hand, armed robbery of a bank is a felony in every state.

I get you live in your own bubble and always think you're right, so there's no reason to waste time arguing with you. Just try asking regular people if they think convicted bank robbers should be able to be lawyers, see what response you get.

Who the fuck pissed in your Cheerios this morning, Mr. Pot? And since when do "regular people" govern who should be able to practice law? "Regular people" basically hate attorneys and don't understand what they do, so if we're talking absurd responses that has to be up there.

[rpupkin]

What an absurd response.

Possession of marijuana isn't a felony in pretty much all but 4 or 5 states, unless you have a significant amount on you.

On the other hand, armed robbery of a bank is a felony in every state.

I get you live in your own bubble and always think you're right, so there's no reason to waste time arguing with you. Just try asking regular people if they think convicted bank robbers should be able to be lawyers, see what response you get.

Who the fuck pissed in your Cheerios this morning, Mr. Pot? And since when do "regular people" govern who should be able to practice law? "Regular people" basically hate attorneys and don't understand what they do, so if we're talking absurd responses that has to be up there.

Yes, let's set the standards of the legal profession per the whims of people who think that Judge Judy is on the Supreme Court.

[encore1101]

Someone who cannot follow the law should not practice it.

In a span of two months, I got a speeding ticket AND a ticket for rolling through a stop sign. I'm turning in my lawyer card as we speak.

Edit: and really, if this is the thinking that we want to adopt, then what distinction is there between misdemeanors and felonies? Regardless of whether its a misdemeanor, felony, or violation, the law is the law and it shouldn't make a difference as to what classification of crime it is.

In New York, stealing a credit card or debit card is considered grand larceny, a E felony, regardless of how much money is on it or whether its used or not. So a person could steal a credit card that has a credit line of $2, and bam, felony. Even if the credit card has expired, has been revoked or canceled at the time that it was stolen, it's a felony.

In contrast, Sexual Misconduct, engaging in sexual intercourse with another person without that person's consent, is a class A misdemeanor.

Yeah, that seems right.

[cram1]

sexual intercourse with another person

Is there another kind of sexual intercourse?

[A. Nony Mouse]

With animals.

[encore1101]

With animals.

which would also be a Class A misdemeanor, but DONT YOU STEAL THAT CREDIT CARD.

[LSATWiz.com]

I think the consensus here matches the reality. A felony does not preclude you from practicing law, and C&F looks at these things on a spectrum. Some crimes are worse than other.

At the bottom, you have petty offenses like weed, a single DUI.
In the middle, you have drug trafficking, sexual intercourse with an animal and bank robbery.
At the top, you have the automatic denials. These are the major moral turpitude offenses like lying about your mailing address.

[Thesaurus]

Someone who cannot follow the law should not practice it.

In a span of two months, I got a speeding ticket AND a ticket for rolling through a stop sign. I'm turning in my lawyer card as we speak.

Edit: and really, if this is the thinking that we want to adopt, then what distinction is there between misdemeanors and felonies? Regardless of whether its a misdemeanor, felony, or violation, the law is the law and it shouldn't make a difference as to what classification of crime it is.

In New York, stealing a credit card or debit card is considered grand larceny, a E felony, regardless of how much money is on it or whether its used or not. So a person could steal a credit card that has a credit line of $2, and bam, felony. Even if the credit card has expired, has been revoked or canceled at the time that it was stolen, it's a felony.

In contrast, Sexual Misconduct, engaging in sexual intercourse with another person without that person's consent, is a class A misdemeanor.

Yeah, that seems right.

I'm confused. It sounds like you are describing rape. How is this different?

[Nebby]

Someone who cannot follow the law should not practice it.

In a span of two months, I got a speeding ticket AND a ticket for rolling through a stop sign. I'm turning in my lawyer card as we speak.

Edit: and really, if this is the thinking that we want to adopt, then what distinction is there between misdemeanors and felonies? Regardless of whether its a misdemeanor, felony, or violation, the law is the law and it shouldn't make a difference as to what classification of crime it is.

In New York, stealing a credit card or debit card is considered grand larceny, a E felony, regardless of how much money is on it or whether its used or not. So a person could steal a credit card that has a credit line of $2, and bam, felony. Even if the credit card has expired, has been revoked or canceled at the time that it was stolen, it's a felony.

In contrast, Sexual Misconduct, engaging in sexual intercourse with another person without that person's consent, is a class A misdemeanor.

Yeah, that seems right.

I'm confused. It sounds like you are describing rape. How is this different?

There's degrees.

[encore1101]

Someone who cannot follow the law should not practice it.

In a span of two months, I got a speeding ticket AND a ticket for rolling through a stop sign. I'm turning in my lawyer card as we speak.

Edit: and really, if this is the thinking that we want to adopt, then what distinction is there between misdemeanors and felonies? Regardless of whether its a misdemeanor, felony, or violation, the law is the law and it shouldn't make a difference as to what classification of crime it is.

In New York, stealing a credit card or debit card is considered grand larceny, a E felony, regardless of how much money is on it or whether its used or not. So a person could steal a credit card that has a credit line of $2, and bam, felony. Even if the credit card has expired, has been revoked or canceled at the time that it was stolen, it's a felony.

In contrast, Sexual Misconduct, engaging in sexual intercourse with another person without that person's consent, is a class A misdemeanor.

Yeah, that seems right.

I'm confused. It sounds like you are describing rape. How is this different?

Very basic version: NY law says that anyone under 17 is incapable of giving consent.

One way to commit Rape in the Third Degree, the lowest Rape felony, is to have sex with someone who is incapable of giving consent for any other reason other than being under 17 (i.e. forcible compulsion).

[C&Ffear]

While this thread deviated somewhat from the initial question, I would like to thank every one that responded and put my mind at ease a bit. My fear may seem irrational but, as I'm sure some here can attest to, your own concerns never really feel absurd, no matter how outlandish they may be

[dreamofNYC]

I am not sure if this thread is still active, but I thought of giving it a try anyway. I passed the NC Feb. 2018 Bar, but I have a C&F hearing regarding (most likely) the amount of debt in the six months leading up to the exam, and possibly an additional address which appeared in my credit history (I rented a house and AirBNBed for two months to supplement my income, and I did not report that address to the Bar because I didn't actually move there.

Does anyone have any idea as to the timeline for a C&F hearing in NC? My employer will wait for a month, but they will not wait for 4-6 months.

Thank you so much for any insights you might be able to provide.