California Bar Moral Character Application

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InterAlia1961

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Postby InterAlia1961 » Thu Aug 16, 2018 1:33 pm

stillwaiting2018 wrote:
Yeah, I got the same letter and went through the same experience with my analyst. I am 149 days out since submission. From what I gathered from the analyst 180 days is standard. Unless you're missing something you won't know until day 180 if they need additional information.


I'm at 189 days. Nothing but silence. I know that I'll be invited to an "informal hearing." I just wish they would get on with it. I'll wait until I'm at eight months, then I'll contact them in writing to see if we can move this along.

Underoath

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Postby Underoath » Thu Aug 16, 2018 2:45 pm

InterAlia1961 wrote:
stillwaiting2018 wrote:
Yeah, I got the same letter and went through the same experience with my analyst. I am 149 days out since submission. From what I gathered from the analyst 180 days is standard. Unless you're missing something you won't know until day 180 if they need additional information.


I'm at 189 days. Nothing but silence. I know that I'll be invited to an "informal hearing." I just wish they would get on with it. I'll wait until I'm at eight months, then I'll contact them in writing to see if we can move this along.


why will you be invited to an informal hearing? I feel that will be me because of my background. I am only at about 40 day mark or so. I am trying to find a job (any job) just to start paying down my debt before I even reach out to them asking if they need any additional information.

bacillusanthracis

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Postby bacillusanthracis » Mon Aug 20, 2018 11:52 am

InterAlia1961 wrote:
stillwaiting2018 wrote:
Yeah, I got the same letter and went through the same experience with my analyst. I am 149 days out since submission. From what I gathered from the analyst 180 days is standard. Unless you're missing something you won't know until day 180 if they need additional information.


I'm at 189 days. Nothing but silence. I know that I'll be invited to an "informal hearing." I just wish they would get on with it. I'll wait until I'm at eight months, then I'll contact them in writing to see if we can move this along.


Going on a year here. 180 days would've been nice. And I just got notice that a new person is now handling my file.

What does that mean? Who the hell knows.

I expect to be invited to a hearing as well because I got a DUI 7 years ago. I just want to get it over with. It's amazing to think that going back to school, earning a bachelor's, going to law school, graduating, and then passing the bar (haven't done that yet), it could all be for naught. Law school may very well be in the top 3 Greatest Regrets of my life.

Underoath

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Postby Underoath » Mon Aug 20, 2018 12:59 pm

bacillusanthracis wrote:
InterAlia1961 wrote:
stillwaiting2018 wrote:
Yeah, I got the same letter and went through the same experience with my analyst. I am 149 days out since submission. From what I gathered from the analyst 180 days is standard. Unless you're missing something you won't know until day 180 if they need additional information.


I'm at 189 days. Nothing but silence. I know that I'll be invited to an "informal hearing." I just wish they would get on with it. I'll wait until I'm at eight months, then I'll contact them in writing to see if we can move this along.


Going on a year here. 180 days would've been nice. And I just got notice that a new person is now handling my file.

What does that mean? Who the hell knows.

I expect to be invited to a hearing as well because I got a DUI 7 years ago. I just want to get it over with. It's amazing to think that going back to school, earning a bachelor's, going to law school, graduating, and then passing the bar (haven't done that yet), it could all be for naught. Law school may very well be in the top 3 Greatest Regrets of my life.


I got a DUI 9 years ago. I LAUGHED OUT LOUD (yes in all caps) when you say "law school may very well be in the top 3 greatest regrets of my life." I feel the exact same way. I regret it with a passion. I don't even want to practice law at this point. I can't find a job because I have a J.D., but no license.
Last edited by Underoath on Mon Aug 20, 2018 1:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

InterAlia1961

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Postby InterAlia1961 » Mon Aug 20, 2018 2:42 pm

Underoath wrote: I can't find a job because I have a J.D., but no license.


This is my issue. I'm in a tight financial situation. If I don't disclose the degree, it'll be seen as dishonest if discovered. If I do disclose the JD, no one will hire me. Nice spot to be in. All any of us can do is wait. I'm doing some volunteer work while I wait. Taking some free CLEs when I can find them. And when I'm really worked up about how long this is taking, I resort to checking my horoscope. Sigh.

Underoath

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Postby Underoath » Mon Aug 20, 2018 3:57 pm

InterAlia1961 wrote:
Underoath wrote: I can't find a job because I have a J.D., but no license.


This is my issue. I'm in a tight financial situation. If I don't disclose the degree, it'll be seen as dishonest if discovered. If I do disclose the JD, no one will hire me. Nice spot to be in. All any of us can do is wait. I'm doing some volunteer work while I wait. Taking some free CLEs when I can find them. And when I'm really worked up about how long this is taking, I resort to checking my horoscope. Sigh.


Yeah, I need to figure out a different path or something. Reading other people post that it's been a year and SILENCE, scares me. I feel this is going to be a long and daunting process.

If they need more information from you do they just communicate by US Mail or email?

estefanchanning

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Postby estefanchanning » Mon Aug 20, 2018 4:19 pm

Would you guys mind sharing what you think is holding up your process? Is it felonies? Moral turpitude violations? Were they recent or a while back?

One of my classmates had a DUI from 4 years ago and got cleared around 6 months mark. He just had to submit an addendum, not even a hearing or anything. So I find it weird that a 9yr/7yr DUI is causing such holdups?

InterAlia1961

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Postby InterAlia1961 » Mon Aug 20, 2018 5:22 pm

estefanchanning wrote:Would you guys mind sharing what you think is holding up your process? Is it felonies? Moral turpitude violations? Were they recent or a while back?

One of my classmates had a DUI from 4 years ago and got cleared around 6 months mark. He just had to submit an addendum, not even a hearing or anything. So I find it weird that a 9yr/7yr DUI is causing such holdups?


One misdemeanor, 13 years ago, involved lying to law enforcement about the whereabouts of a relative. Another misdemeanor, 11 years ago, involved being disorderly in public. No alcohol,drug, or financial issues.

InterAlia1961

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Postby InterAlia1961 » Mon Aug 20, 2018 5:23 pm

Underoath wrote:[

If they need more information from you do they just communicate by US Mail or email?


U.S. Mail.

Underoath

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Postby Underoath » Mon Aug 20, 2018 6:17 pm

estefanchanning wrote:Would you guys mind sharing what you think is holding up your process? Is it felonies? Moral turpitude violations? Were they recent or a while back?

One of my classmates had a DUI from 4 years ago and got cleared around 6 months mark. He just had to submit an addendum, not even a hearing or anything. So I find it weird that a 9yr/7yr DUI is causing such holdups?


I am only around day 50 mark. I also know people with DUIs and only had to write an addendum. I think my issue stems from debt over 400K (but that's primarily all student loans). I have NO other convictions. However, I was arrested several times for fighting, but charges were dropped.

FinallyPassedTheBar

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Postby FinallyPassedTheBar » Tue Aug 21, 2018 5:21 am

On the reddit law school sub, the general consensus is to hire a C&F attorney to train you on how to perform during the "informal" interview.

RYWD

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Postby RYWD » Wed Aug 22, 2018 1:16 am

I'm glad I found this thread. I passed the July '17 CBX. I procrastinated in submitting my moral character app and now I'm going on 7 months of waiting. Been assigned to an analyst recently.

InterAlia1961

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Postby InterAlia1961 » Thu Aug 23, 2018 8:40 am

FinallyPassedTheBar wrote:On the reddit law school sub, the general consensus is to hire a C&F attorney to train you on how to perform during the "informal" interview.


It's an informal hearing,not an interview. I don't need an attorney. I AM the attorney. I passed the hardest bar exam in the country. It's not about performing. It's about establishing that you are a person of good moral character. The internet if full of stories of people who tried to perform at the hearing and were destroyed by the committee's questions.

The only way I would recommend hiring someone is if you are utterly unable to do any research yourself. However, all you have to do is check out the State Bar's disciplinary reports to see how to conduct yourself. One attorney was convicted of child molestation, and was only suspended. Same for another attorney who left his infant child alone in a motel while he and the toddler went somewhere. The police were called. The kids were put in foster care. The attorney was only suspended because it didn't affect his ability to practice law. Another was allowed to practice after he and his wife planted drugs in their child's teacher's car because the teacher wasn't nice enough to their child. Both were attorneys. Both were readmitted after a 2-yr. disbarment. There are literally hundreds of these disciplinary decisions on the website. If you take some time and go through them, you'll see the pattern. Act accordingly.

InterAlia1961

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Postby InterAlia1961 » Thu Aug 23, 2018 8:42 am

RYWD wrote:I'm glad I found this thread. I passed the July '17 CBX. I procrastinated in submitting my moral character app and now I'm going on 7 months of waiting. Been assigned to an analyst recently.


Ditto. Welcome to the wait. It blows.

Underoath

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Postby Underoath » Thu Aug 23, 2018 10:49 am

InterAlia1961 wrote:
FinallyPassedTheBar wrote:On the reddit law school sub, the general consensus is to hire a C&F attorney to train you on how to perform during the "informal" interview.


It's an informal hearing,not an interview. I don't need an attorney. I AM the attorney. I passed the hardest bar exam in the country. It's not about performing. It's about establishing that you are a person of good moral character. The internet if full of stories of people who tried to perform at the hearing and were destroyed by the committee's questions.

The only way I would recommend hiring someone is if you are utterly unable to do any research yourself. However, all you have to do is check out the State Bar's disciplinary reports to see how to conduct yourself. One attorney was convicted of child molestation, and was only suspended. Same for another attorney who left his infant child alone in a motel while he and the toddler went somewhere. The police were called. The kids were put in foster care. The attorney was only suspended because it didn't affect his ability to practice law. Another was allowed to practice after he and his wife planted drugs in their child's teacher's car because the teacher wasn't nice enough to their child. Both were attorneys. Both were readmitted after a 2-yr. disbarment. There are literally hundreds of these disciplinary decisions on the website. If you take some time and go through them, you'll see the pattern. Act accordingly.


"I don't need a attorney. I AM the attorney." BINGO.

Bla Bla Bla Blah

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Postby Bla Bla Bla Blah » Thu Aug 23, 2018 11:06 am

FinallyPassedTheBar wrote:One attorney was convicted of child molestation, and was only suspended. Same for another attorney who left his infant child alone in a motel while he and the toddler went somewhere. The police were called. The kids were put in foster care. The attorney was only suspended because it didn't affect his ability to practice law. Another was allowed to practice after he and his wife planted drugs in their child's teacher's car because the teacher wasn't nice enough to their child. Both were attorneys. Both were readmitted after a 2-yr. disbarment. There are literally hundreds of these disciplinary decisions on the website. If you take some time and go through them, you'll see the pattern. Act accordingly.


The fact that they let these people have license, and that I am sitting here in career killing purgatory simply because of my family law proceedings and debt that I took on to look after my children, makes the process even more maddening! Crazy how bureaucratically nonsensical the CA Bar can be.

InterAlia1961

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Postby InterAlia1961 » Thu Aug 23, 2018 1:30 pm

Bla Bla Bla Blah wrote:The fact that they let these people have license, and that I am sitting here in career killing purgatory simply because of my family law proceedings and debt that I took on to look after my children, makes the process even more maddening! Crazy how bureaucratically nonsensical the CA Bar can be.


Beat your wife, a felony, interfere with emergency responders, a misdemeanor, get suspended from practicing law in California for 90 days. http://www.calbar.ca.gov/About-Us/News-Events/California-Bar-Journal/Attorney-Discipline/County-Articles/david-thaddeus-achord-of-san-diego-suspended-for-90-days-for-domestic-violence-conviction

InterAlia1961

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Postby InterAlia1961 » Thu Aug 23, 2018 1:34 pm

Molest a child, get suspended from practicing law in California for 15 months. Fail to register as a sex-offender, get disbarred. It's all good as long as you register after your suspension.

http://www.calbar.ca.gov/About-Us/News-Events/California-Bar-Journal/Attorney-Discipline/Disbarments/andrew-benjamin-aames-of-missouri-disbarred-for-failing-to-register-as-a-sex-offender

FinallyPassedTheBar

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Postby FinallyPassedTheBar » Thu Aug 23, 2018 2:06 pm

From what I have read, an applicant's "performance" is a crucial component of the informal interview process. It's similar to an attorney training a witness to perform on the stand. Truth is not enough. One must also convey the truth in a convincing manner. The C&F attorneys have special insight into this because many of them are former CA Bar employees who previously conducted C&F hearings.

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Atmosphere

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Postby Atmosphere » Fri Aug 24, 2018 9:27 am

Submitted mid-march, received a physical positive determination yesterday - the day after I got back from my bar trip.

Good luck everyone, happy to put this behind me.

InterAlia1961

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Postby InterAlia1961 » Fri Aug 24, 2018 1:30 pm

FinallyPassedTheBar wrote:From what I have read, an applicant's "performance" is a crucial component of the informal interview process. It's similar to an attorney training a witness to perform on the stand. Truth is not enough. One must also convey the truth in a convincing manner. The C&F attorneys have special insight into this because many of them are former CA Bar employees who previously conducted C&F hearings.


Could you share your sources? I'm always looking for information on the informal hearing.

FinallyPassedTheBar

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Postby FinallyPassedTheBar » Fri Aug 24, 2018 3:00 pm

InterAlia1961 wrote:
FinallyPassedTheBar wrote:From what I have read, an applicant's "performance" is a crucial component of the informal interview process. It's similar to an attorney training a witness to perform on the stand. Truth is not enough. One must also convey the truth in a convincing manner. The C&F attorneys have special insight into this because many of them are former CA Bar employees who previously conducted C&F hearings.


Could you share your sources? I'm always looking for information on the informal hearing.


I don't remember the exact reddit sub where I read that, but you can get a general feel here: https://www.reddit.com/r/LawSchool/sear ... trict_sr=1

InterAlia1961

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Postby InterAlia1961 » Sat Aug 25, 2018 12:08 pm

If you follow the link I provide below, it will take you to a Meeting Agenda of the Committee of Bar Examiners. Scroll down to Section V and click on letter G. A report will open up. It seems the State Bar is trying to "clarify" the Rules of Procedure to allow them to subpoena the records of third parties not involved in a moral character determination investigation. So, it someone reports that you did or said something to or with a third-party, or were associated with someone else who might have had some criminal or character issues, the Bar can subpoena their records to see if they can find adverse information on you. So, basically, the moral character determination becomes a codified witch-hunt. Nice.

http://board.calbar.ca.gov/Agenda.aspx?id=14780&tid=0&show=100018593

bacillusanthracis

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Postby bacillusanthracis » Mon Aug 27, 2018 12:04 pm

estefanchanning wrote:Would you guys mind sharing what you think is holding up your process? Is it felonies? Moral turpitude violations? Were they recent or a while back?

One of my classmates had a DUI from 4 years ago and got cleared around 6 months mark. He just had to submit an addendum, not even a hearing or anything. So I find it weird that a 9yr/7yr DUI is causing such holdups?


A big part of my holdup is that I'm older. I owned a couple of business which lasted 3 and 14 years respectively, which means I've sued people and have been sued (all contract stuff/no tort). I've been divorced and had a custody battle. My mom died and we had to sue the executor.

I provided them with about a hundred pages of materials, which didn't include the moral character application itself. So I do understand to some degree why they're taking longer than average. But it's been a year now. I think that's enough.

bacillusanthracis

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Postby bacillusanthracis » Mon Aug 27, 2018 12:06 pm

InterAlia1961 wrote:
Underoath wrote: I can't find a job because I have a J.D., but no license.


This is my issue. I'm in a tight financial situation. If I don't disclose the degree, it'll be seen as dishonest if discovered. If I do disclose the JD, no one will hire me. Nice spot to be in. All any of us can do is wait. I'm doing some volunteer work while I wait. Taking some free CLEs when I can find them. And when I'm really worked up about how long this is taking, I resort to checking my horoscope. Sigh.


I hear this.

I've taken a part time job for $11 an hour and I hit up attorneys every week to see if they need contract work done. Last week I had a job writing a trial brief, this week I have nothing.

Yay law school.



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