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InterAlia1961 wrote:So...I won another chance to sit for the CBX. (How's that for a positive attitude?) This will be my fourth attempt. I'm wondering if anyone knows of any resources for the new PT format. I don't want to practice a 3-hour test if I can practice a 1.5-hour test.

Also, as far a locations. I've been to Pasadena once. Thought the city itself was way too noisy. Went to Ontario twice. The area around the convention center is nice, and even though it's next to the airport, it's still quieter than Pasadena. I'm thinking about Sacramento or Oakland. I understand that the Oakland venue is smaller. This might be a better fit for me given that I'm from a remote, rural area. Suggestions welcome.

There is one sample 90-minute PT: http://admissions.calbar.ca.gov/Portals ... 020217.pdf

Multistate PTs (for UBE people) are also 90 minutes. Task, file, library all seem similar. Find some here: www.ncbex.org/exams/mpt/preparing/

I'd still practice with the 3-hour ones, though. You've been doing that already. There are many of them for you to practice with, and if you can do the 3hr ones, you can do the half ones. That said, the PT doesn't seem as important under the new format. It's one PT worth about 14% of your overall score. It's still important, but the essays and especially MBE seem relatively crucial now.

Just opened Themis to look at the study schedule and there are basically no days off until late July. Do people take at least one day off on the weekends?? Don't think I can go 7 days straight without a break.

admiringatticus wrote:Just opened Themis to look at the study schedule and there are basically no days off until late July. Do people take at least one day off on the weekends?? Don't think I can go 7 days straight without a break.

Oh, when I took it last July (started around May 20th-ish) there seemed to be several days off.

Either way, if you want a day off - perhaps push to have a very productive day and then give your self a break. I think this is probably a better idea, rather than letting yourself fall behind with the intent of catching up. (Some of the study-days go much quicker - especially if you 2x speed - or skip - portions of the lectures). Personally, I learned a lot more from practicing so if you're like me, I wouldn't spend all your time trying to read or even memorize the outlines, or sitting through 5 hours of lecture in a day. Those are LONG outlines and lectures, and while you should get to know the detailed info in them over time (studying particular topics as you practice them) - I don't think it's worth it to sit for 3-10 hours straight reading them just to read them.

Can I get some opinions on the subject of OUTLINES. I think the bar review course outlines are way too long to be immediately useful and take too long to slog through if you're using them to prepare before you start questions. I also do not want to spend the time writing my own outlines, id rather spend my time doing questions and reviewing them.

Specifically, what are the best ready made outlines out there for preparing for and writing the essays? I've found some suggestions such as lean sheets, magic sheets, bar code outlines. I find the lean sheets to be a little too lean for the purpose of prepping. Maybe they are good as a last minute tool. Anyone have experience with magic sheets or bar code? Im looking for something that has good rule statements for all the major issues covered in the essays as well as maybe brief (but still adequate) coverage of the less frequently tested issues.

AS an aside, how do you guys prepare for MBE questions? The approach I took last time was reading through the critical pass flash cards and just doing questions. I thought the critical pass cards only had the bare minimum information and didn't really prepare me for the level of detail that was on the MBE.

Input is greatly appreciated.

Legitimately asking for a friend: has there been any clarification from the CA Bar Assoc as to whether MacBooks with the touch bar will be allowed for the July Exam? I know that they were not allowed for February, but I can't find any guidance on July. Thanks!

gsonstein wrote:Can I get some opinions on the subject of OUTLINES. I think the bar review course outlines are way too long to be immediately useful and take too long to slog through if you're using them to prepare before you start questions. I also do not want to spend the time writing my own outlines, id rather spend my time doing questions and reviewing them.

Specifically, what are the best ready made outlines out there for preparing for and writing the essays? I've found some suggestions such as lean sheets, magic sheets, bar code outlines. I find the lean sheets to be a little too lean for the purpose of prepping. Maybe they are good as a last minute tool. Anyone have experience with magic sheets or bar code? Im looking for something that has good rule statements for all the major issues covered in the essays as well as maybe brief (but still adequate) coverage of the less frequently tested issues.

AS an aside, how do you guys prepare for MBE questions? The approach I took last time was reading through the critical pass flash cards and just doing questions. I thought the critical pass cards only had the bare minimum information and didn't really prepare me for the level of detail that was on the MBE.

Input is greatly appreciated.

1.) At least for essays - I would recommend using baressays.com (using with barissues.com makes tracking most common issues easier as well) to develop short but comprehensive "attack sheets." What I did was use a combination of (1) the baressays.com attack sheets; (2) model answers; and (3) high scoring student answers to essentially outline every possible question that had shown up in the past 20 years or so with rule statements. I outlined my own attack sheets exactly as I would outline an answer on the bar exam in IRAC form (minus the analysis and conclusion).

I did this, supplementing a bit based on my outlines where I wanted a bit more to work with. Then formatted it in the way that most made sense to logically approach a question on the exam, and boom you now have a pre-populated answer to that issue and all sub-issues anytime you encounter it in the future while practicing. Perfect for then memorizing, grading yourself, etc.

Even though the model/sample answers aren't perfect, I believe they are MORE than enough to craft high-scoring essays. If something seems off in an answer though, definitely do take it with a grain of salt. Personally, I think they were mostly pretty solid but the formatting was weird and some rule statements just weren't good enough for me so I modified them. Point is, everything is there for you and it's a solid base to work to build on other people's past efforts.

2.) For MBEs, personally I just went through practice questions to study. However, I did it ENTIRELY in practice mode and literally reviewed every answer explanation (right or wrong) immediately afterwards to make sure I understood the answer. If I didn't quite get the answer explanation or had a "WTF" moment, I would then reference that relevant area in the larger outline and review until I made sure I understood. I did only about 1,000 questions my first attempt (Scoring 146 Scaled) and then on my second attempt did about 700 questions and know I scored at least 150+ on the MBE this time-around to pass. Honestly, I would recommend doing way more MBEs considering they're worth more now (and just in general because it sucks to fail because you didn't do enough), but focus on QUALITY practice over quantity - But really just do both quality AND quantity

A lot of people say they feel the MBE wasn't quite the same as in practice on the actual exam....However, personally I didn't really feel much of a difference having done both Themis and Adaptibar questions. It seems close enough to me, and if anything the actual bar exam questions (aside from a few curveball super nuanced things) was slightly easier in my opinion. If you can get to CONSISTENT 70% plus on those practice tests, I think you should be in pretty good shape granted no meltdown, bad luck, etc. on actual test day. Every once in a while I still had those bad results that dipped below 65% in practice, but that was with much smaller questions sets of 25-50 as opposed to 175-200.

gsonstein wrote:Can I get some opinions on the subject of OUTLINES. I think the bar review course outlines are way too long to be immediately useful and take too long to slog through if you're using them to prepare before you start questions. I also do not want to spend the time writing my own outlines, id rather spend my time doing questions and reviewing them.

Specifically, what are the best ready made outlines out there for preparing for and writing the essays? I've found some suggestions such as lean sheets, magic sheets, bar code outlines. I find the lean sheets to be a little too lean for the purpose of prepping. Maybe they are good as a last minute tool. Anyone have experience with magic sheets or bar code? Im looking for something that has good rule statements for all the major issues covered in the essays as well as maybe brief (but still adequate) coverage of the less frequently tested issues.

AS an aside, how do you guys prepare for MBE questions? The approach I took last time was reading through the critical pass flash cards and just doing questions. I thought the critical pass cards only had the bare minimum information and didn't really prepare me for the level of detail that was on the MBE.

Input is greatly appreciated.

The best way to evaluate outlines is to actually try using them.

Lean Sheets has samples here: http://www.leansheets.com/california-ba ... heets-com/

Magicsheets samples:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/5yfvjn5ysc1di ... 9.pdf?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/6kkhhar20hltf ... w.pdf?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/rkdv7tlcdfad0 ... s.pdf?dl=0

I have no idea what Bar Code outlines are like, sorry.

I'm biased for Magicsheets since I created them when Lean Sheets weren't too helpful to me during my studies (passed on my second attempt using a "first draft" predecessor of Magicsheets, which I've since updated multiple times). It sounds to me like they match the description of what you're looking for.

But I don't care what you use as long as you use the one that fits your style and helps you learn. Check the Bar Code samples (if any) and let me know what you think of them.

ur_hero basically said what I would have said w/r/t MBE strategy, word for word. I'll add using real MBE questions from Emanuel's Strategies and Tactics 6th edition and/or AdaptiBar. Pros and cons for each but both are excellent MBE supplements. People have passed using either or both.

gsonstein wrote:Can I get some opinions on the subject of OUTLINES. I think the bar review course outlines are way too long to be immediately useful and take too long to slog through if you're using them to prepare before you start questions. I also do not want to spend the time writing my own outlines, id rather spend my time doing questions and reviewing them.

Specifically, what are the best ready made outlines out there for preparing for and writing the essays? I've found some suggestions such as lean sheets, magic sheets, bar code outlines. I find the lean sheets to be a little too lean for the purpose of prepping. Maybe they are good as a last minute tool. Anyone have experience with magic sheets or bar code? Im looking for something that has good rule statements for all the major issues covered in the essays as well as maybe brief (but still adequate) coverage of the less frequently tested issues.

AS an aside, how do you guys prepare for MBE questions? The approach I took last time was reading through the critical pass flash cards and just doing questions. I thought the critical pass cards only had the bare minimum information and didn't really prepare me for the level of detail that was on the MBE.

Input is greatly appreciated.

Oh, also I used the Bar Code outlines a bit. They were nice for pulling some rule statements from and how to format certain essays. But note that they do NOT cover all major issues (they do cover a decent number of them).

That being said, I personally thought they were over-hyped on TLS. Just make sure you don't get the wrong impression that all of the templates are complete by any means...You need to cross-reference with other sources (e.g., baressays.com, Cal. Bar. Model answers, etc.) to make sure you are getting everything. Also, the rule statements are often too lengthy in my opinion - ain't nobody got time for that! Make them short, sweet, and easy to remember. In addition, often the bar code cheat sheets give great samples of formatting while other times it seemed somewhat awkward and not intuitive. Also, learn to provide your own analysis of both sides of an issue - don't just copy what's there thinking it's the "right" answer (I thought the analysis was very meh).

Overall, I did still find them useful to pull many rule statements and formatting examples from and would probably still buy them granted money isn't super tight for you. Use them in producing "attack sheets" as I explained in my other post above.

rcharter1978 wrote:Are they still charging the same for a 2 day exam as a 3 day exam? Thats some bullshit right there. There is at least one less PT to grade, they should lower the price.

Good luck! Are you excited to be part of the first group doing the 2 day exam?

Logically for me, the switch to a 2-day exam was to save time and make money. Less exam content to grade. Less days to reserve venue space. Less proctoring necessary. And SAME fees? That's seriously outrageous and I'd be interested to know how they justify it.

ur_hero wrote:

rcharter1978 wrote:Are they still charging the same for a 2 day exam as a 3 day exam? Thats some bullshit right there. There is at least one less PT to grade, they should lower the price.

Good luck! Are you excited to be part of the first group doing the 2 day exam?

Logically for me, the switch to a 2-day exam was to save time and make money. Less exam content to grade. Less days to reserve venue space. Less proctoring necessary. And SAME fees? That's seriously outrageous and I'd be interested to know how they justify it.

Maybe they would have raised fees had they kept the 3-day format.

Taking the CA bar in July for the first time and freaking out. Studying using Themis + MagicSheets/ApproSheets + AdaptiBar but not sure how to coordinate everything. Right now I am: 1) skimming the long Themis Outline, 2) Watching the lectures, 3) Filling out their handout/creating my own outline as I listen to the lecture (trying to figure out what works best right now) and then 4) reviewing MagicSheets and doing MBE questions on AdaptiBar. I don't think I am retaining much in the way of black letter law (at least not from the lengthier outlines) BUT I am too nervous to deviate too far from the "Themis process" since I don't have a great one to replace with. I guess, I don't really have a specific question except for: anything you guys think seems glaringly terrible in my system? Any advice would be really appreciated.

Did anyone do/is doing Barbri's Early Start program? I am finding the amp utterly useless because they seem to be testing off material that I have no way of knowing at this point in my prep.

changing_names wrote:Taking the CA bar in July for the first time and freaking out. Studying using Themis + MagicSheets/ApproSheets + AdaptiBar but not sure how to coordinate everything. Right now I am: 1) skimming the long Themis Outline, 2) Watching the lectures, 3) Filling out their handout/creating my own outline as I listen to the lecture (trying to figure out what works best right now) and then 4) reviewing MagicSheets and doing MBE questions on AdaptiBar. I don't think I am retaining much in the way of black letter law (at least not from the lengthier outlines) BUT I am too nervous to deviate too far from the "Themis process" since I don't have a great one to replace with. I guess, I don't really have a specific question except for: anything you guys think seems glaringly terrible in my system? Any advice would be really appreciated.

I know it's tempting to stick to The Plan, but don't be afraid of deviating from the Themis process if it doesn't make sense to you. Are they forcing you to do Evidence essays on May 29th when you know you can ace it? Do less of it and sub it for another subject. Need more help with Property? Add a day. This is your bar exam. Their one-size-fits-all schedule is designed for the average student. If you're on TLS, you're probably not the average student.

In fact, I would suggest just creating your own flexible schedule based on your weak subjects and portion of bar (MBE, essays) if you know them already, but I shouldn't rip you away from Themis that suddenly

Themis is a good place to study the law but not learn the test. Don't obsess too much over lectures and handouts because you will forget 99% of it (another scary suggestion: listen to lectures at end of your day as review). You remember by DOING. You remember by struggling to remember. You're not going to be tested on what you remember; you will be tested on whether you can remember and apply. This includes identifying the relevant issues and reciting the relevant rules. If you don't know where to start an essay, consult your tools, such as Approsheets.

Just "knowing" things conceptually is vastly different from being able to use that knowledge. So practice using it. And get feedback for each thing you do. Check sample/model answers. Read and understand the MBE answer explanations. There's no point in solving problems if you don't validate or learn from it.

logical seasoning wrote:Did anyone do/is doing Barbri's Early Start program? I am finding the amp utterly useless because they seem to be testing off material that I have no way of knowing at this point in my prep.

I found it utterly useless. You'd be better of using the many hours you'd spend on it perusing the MCR or previewing the California subjects.

a male human wrote:

changing_names wrote:Taking the CA bar in July for the first time and freaking out. Studying using Themis + MagicSheets/ApproSheets + AdaptiBar but not sure how to coordinate everything. Right now I am: 1) skimming the long Themis Outline, 2) Watching the lectures, 3) Filling out their handout/creating my own outline as I listen to the lecture (trying to figure out what works best right now) and then 4) reviewing MagicSheets and doing MBE questions on AdaptiBar. I don't think I am retaining much in the way of black letter law (at least not from the lengthier outlines) BUT I am too nervous to deviate too far from the "Themis process" since I don't have a great one to replace with. I guess, I don't really have a specific question except for: anything you guys think seems glaringly terrible in my system? Any advice would be really appreciated.

I know it's tempting to stick to The Plan, but don't be afraid of deviating from the Themis process if it doesn't make sense to you. Are they forcing you to do Evidence essays on May 29th when you know you can ace it? Do less of it and sub it for another subject. Need more help with Property? Add a day. This is your bar exam. Their one-size-fits-all schedule is designed for the average student. If you're on TLS, you're probably not the average student.

In fact, I would suggest just creating your own flexible schedule based on your weak subjects and portion of bar (MBE, essays) if you know them already, but I shouldn't rip you away from Themis that suddenly

Themis is a good place to study the law but not learn the test. Don't obsess too much over lectures and handouts because you will forget 99% of it (another scary suggestion: listen to lectures at end of your day as review). You remember by DOING. You remember by struggling to remember. You're not going to be tested on what you remember; you will be tested on whether you can remember and apply. This includes identifying the relevant issues and reciting the relevant rules. If you don't know where to start an essay, consult your tools, such as Approsheets.

Just "knowing" things conceptually is vastly different from being able to use that knowledge. So practice using it. And get feedback for each thing you do. Check sample/model answers. Read and understand the MBE answer explanations. There's no point in solving problems if you don't validate or learn from it.

Thank you for that, I feel like I needed reassurance that it is okay to deviate from their process. Really appreciate your input especially regarding focusing on practicing. Thanks again!

Guchster wrote:

logical seasoning wrote:Did anyone do/is doing Barbri's Early Start program? I am finding the amp utterly useless because they seem to be testing off material that I have no way of knowing at this point in my prep.

I found it utterly useless. You'd be better of using the many hours you'd spend on it perusing the MCR or previewing the California subjects.

Thanks for the affirmation. Ill preview the CA subjects instead

logical seasoning wrote:

Guchster wrote:

logical seasoning wrote:Did anyone do/is doing Barbri's Early Start program? I am finding the amp utterly useless because they seem to be testing off material that I have no way of knowing at this point in my prep.

I found it utterly useless. You'd be better of using the many hours you'd spend on it perusing the MCR or previewing the California subjects.

Thanks for the affirmation. Ill preview the CA subjects instead

Good call. It STRESSED me out putting off some of these the first time around considering I never took a class in Wills, Trust, or Community Property.

Glad that this thread is open, good luck to everyone as studying begins!

Wondering if I can have some help. I'm trying to work out a benchmark target for the MBE portion. Given the new format, does anyone know the best estimate for an MBE score that will put you in good territory for passing (whether estimating raw or scaled?)

As a data point, I had a scaled MBE of 155 in New York, which was good enough for passage. Of course, the score isn't transferring, and I could easily do worse on the MBE than what I was able to do previously. But I don't have any clue whether that past result is under- or over-shooting what will be necessary in California.

Thanks for any help anyone can offer - even if it's just explaining the process on how to figure this out.

legalmindedfellow wrote:Glad that this thread is open, good luck to everyone as studying begins!

Wondering if I can have some help. I'm trying to work out a benchmark target for the MBE portion. Given the new format, does anyone know the best estimate for an MBE score that will put you in good territory for passing (whether estimating raw or scaled?)

As a data point, I had a scaled MBE of 155 in New York, which was good enough for passage. Of course, the score isn't transferring, and I could easily do worse on the MBE than what I was able to do previously. But I don't have any clue whether that past result is under- or over-shooting what will be necessary in California.

Thanks for any help anyone can offer - even if it's just explaining the process on how to figure this out.

Scaled MBE score of 155 should be good for CA.

CA's cut score for passing is 144.1.

legalmindedfellow wrote:Glad that this thread is open, good luck to everyone as studying begins!

Wondering if I can have some help. I'm trying to work out a benchmark target for the MBE portion. Given the new format, does anyone know the best estimate for an MBE score that will put you in good territory for passing (whether estimating raw or scaled?)

As a data point, I had a scaled MBE of 155 in New York, which was good enough for passage. Of course, the score isn't transferring, and I could easily do worse on the MBE than what I was able to do previously. But I don't have any clue whether that past result is under- or over-shooting what will be necessary in California.

Thanks for any help anyone can offer - even if it's just explaining the process on how to figure this out.

The target to shoot for if you want 1440 scaled is about 129 raw (out of the 190 scored).

I say this based on this old conversion table, which doesn't apply to any given exam, just the one it was released for: http://admissions.calbar.ca.gov/portals ... l_info.pdf

Since 175 out of 200 are graded now, it might throw off this number a bit. Safe bet is to get to at least 65% correct on your practice runs.

But even more helpful would be to figure out where you're weak and work on those subjects. Track your correct % rate for each subject and major issue so that you can pinpoint which areas you should focus more on. I kept a running rank of subjects, and paid more attention to the bottom three subjects as well as topics I wasn't good at.

The overall % doesn't tell you much. It could be because you're doing really well in one subject but badly in another. If you improved the bad subject, you'd increase your overall win rate. Just something I did that might be helpful to you.

This too:

dredd16 wrote:Scaled MBE score of 155 should be good for CA.

CA's cut score for passing is 144.1.

gsonstein wrote:Can I get some opinions on the subject of OUTLINES. I think the bar review course outlines are way too long to be immediately useful and take too long to slog through if you're using them to prepare before you start questions. I also do not want to spend the time writing my own outlines, id rather spend my time doing questions and reviewing them.

Specifically, what are the best ready made outlines out there for preparing for and writing the essays? I've found some suggestions such as lean sheets, magic sheets, bar code outlines. I find the lean sheets to be a little too lean for the purpose of prepping. Maybe they are good as a last minute tool. Anyone have experience with magic sheets or bar code? Im looking for something that has good rule statements for all the major issues covered in the essays as well as maybe brief (but still adequate) coverage of the less frequently tested issues.

AS an aside, how do you guys prepare for MBE questions? The approach I took last time was reading through the critical pass flash cards and just doing questions. I thought the critical pass cards only had the bare minimum information and didn't really prepare me for the level of detail that was on the MBE.

Input is greatly appreciated.

I think I accidentally sent you a private message. My apologies. Check out BarEssays.com though. They have outlines there that you can use if you spend a little extra for the upgrade. They were a really great starting point for memorizing and were not terribly long. I'd then use that knowledge and practice the essays (even the MBE) and add anything that maybe I needed to pay a little extra attention to. It helped me to pass.

Good luck.

legalmindedfellow wrote:Glad that this thread is open, good luck to everyone as studying begins!

Wondering if I can have some help. I'm trying to work out a benchmark target for the MBE portion. Given the new format, does anyone know the best estimate for an MBE score that will put you in good territory for passing (whether estimating raw or scaled?)

As a data point, I had a scaled MBE of 155 in New York, which was good enough for passage. Of course, the score isn't transferring, and I could easily do worse on the MBE than what I was able to do previously. But I don't have any clue whether that past result is under- or over-shooting what will be necessary in California.

Thanks for any help anyone can offer - even if it's just explaining the process on how to figure this out.

MBE definitely swings at least for me. Scored 158 July 2016, only managed 149 Feb 2017. But some people are saying Feb is on a more difficult curve, which means with the same raw score, your July scaled score will be higher than Feb scaled score.

I'm having a hard time distinguishing between harmless error, plain error, and clearly erroneous and when to apply them. For instance, an otherwise voluntary statement made by a suspect in custody that was erroneously admitted is harmless error if the conviction would've occurred anyway. But does it also apply in civil proceedings? If anyone knows a resource, please let me know. I can truthfully say that these three standards threw me for a loop.

I studied using Barbri the first time and failed by 30 points. The funny part is that Barbri is allowing me to use their program the second time for free. Why would I want to use something that didn't help me succeed???!!! Anyways, this time around I want to prepare for anything and not hedge on certain subjects.

Any feedback will be appreciated from those who have studied on their own,
-For MBEs, will Adaptibar be sufficient? The first time around I did Barbri questions only.
-For essays, I have purchased a subscription from baressays.com. Now I am debating what I can use to determine the frequency of the topics tested. Here is my thought process, I have looked into lean sheets which has what I am looking for (frequency of topics tested + MBE flash cards). Next, I looked into magic sheets which looks similar to lean sheets but without a frequency table. Lastly, I looked into barissues which has the topics tested broken down into frequency, and actually provides actual bar essays. Of these three services: lean sheets, magic sheets, and barissues, which one would give me the most bang for my buck?

Thank you!

I passed Feb '17. No I'm not here to gloat.

This forum has given me a much-needed outlet to vent, get answers, and provide answers.

I'd like to pay it forward by helping someone pass the next bar.

My ideal candidate is someone who lives near S.D., is totally crushed by this whole process, but is willing to fight VERY hard - using the frustration as fuel to dunk all over the bar exam.

I have good moral character on file so i'm not sketchy. I'm just a guy who hates seeing people tortured by this and will help as much as he can.

PM me and we'll get started. (Although I can't help everyone, I will help the first few who reply. Just introduce yourself and give a little background.)