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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 7:13 pm
by fear_no_evil
Alt123 wrote:State bar said the court needed to give its decision by the 20th of this month to have it apply.

See the footnote on page 47 of the report sent to the Court by the State Bar in this PDF:
https://www.calbar.ca.gov/Portals/0/doc ... 122017.pdf

"43 The State Bar will need to be notified of any modified July 2017 cut score no later than October 20, 2017, in
order to implement that change such that exam results can be released as normal on the Friday before
Thanksgiving."

So I guess they can release it late, it just affects when we get our results..


Ok, so at least we will know in 9 days whether the cut score will be lowered for july 2017.

Re: 2017 July California Bar

Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 7:17 pm
by maxmartin
fear_no_evil wrote:
Alt123 wrote:State bar said the court needed to give its decision by the 20th of this month to have it apply.

See the footnote on page 47 of the report sent to the Court by the State Bar in this PDF:
https://www.calbar.ca.gov/Portals/0/doc ... 122017.pdf

"43 The State Bar will need to be notified of any modified July 2017 cut score no later than October 20, 2017, in
order to implement that change such that exam results can be released as normal on the Friday before
Thanksgiving."

So I guess they can release it late, it just affects when we get our results..


Ok, so at least we will know in 9 days whether the cut score will be lowered for july 2017.


Not so fast, the court can always issue the order past 20th but demand the board to comply with the new cut score. So the board has to delay the planned result release date. :mrgreen:

Re: 2017 July California Bar

Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 7:37 pm
by fear_no_evil
maxmartin wrote:
fear_no_evil wrote:
Alt123 wrote:State bar said the court needed to give its decision by the 20th of this month to have it apply.

See the footnote on page 47 of the report sent to the Court by the State Bar in this PDF:
https://www.calbar.ca.gov/Portals/0/doc ... 122017.pdf

"43 The State Bar will need to be notified of any modified July 2017 cut score no later than October 20, 2017, in
order to implement that change such that exam results can be released as normal on the Friday before
Thanksgiving."

So I guess they can release it late, it just affects when we get our results..


Ok, so at least we will know in 9 days whether the cut score will be lowered for july 2017.


Not so fast, the court can always issue the order past 20th but demand the board to comply with the new cut score. So the board has to delay the planned result release date. :mrgreen:


:x

Re: 2017 July California Bar

Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 8:06 pm
by mcmand
maxmartin wrote:
fear_no_evil wrote:
Alt123 wrote:State bar said the court needed to give its decision by the 20th of this month to have it apply.

See the footnote on page 47 of the report sent to the Court by the State Bar in this PDF:
https://www.calbar.ca.gov/Portals/0/doc ... 122017.pdf

"43 The State Bar will need to be notified of any modified July 2017 cut score no later than October 20, 2017, in
order to implement that change such that exam results can be released as normal on the Friday before
Thanksgiving."

So I guess they can release it late, it just affects when we get our results..


Ok, so at least we will know in 9 days whether the cut score will be lowered for july 2017.


Not so fast, the court can always issue the order past 20th but demand the board to comply with the new cut score. So the board has to delay the planned result release date. :mrgreen:


Couldn't we sue for a delay like that? Or could our employers? Not having a bar license deprives us of making money so...

Re: 2017 July California Bar

Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 8:39 pm
by fear_no_evil
mcmand wrote:
maxmartin wrote:
fear_no_evil wrote:
Alt123 wrote:State bar said the court needed to give its decision by the 20th of this month to have it apply.

See the footnote on page 47 of the report sent to the Court by the State Bar in this PDF:
https://www.calbar.ca.gov/Portals/0/doc ... 122017.pdf

"43 The State Bar will need to be notified of any modified July 2017 cut score no later than October 20, 2017, in
order to implement that change such that exam results can be released as normal on the Friday before
Thanksgiving."

So I guess they can release it late, it just affects when we get our results..


Ok, so at least we will know in 9 days whether the cut score will be lowered for july 2017.


Not so fast, the court can always issue the order past 20th but demand the board to comply with the new cut score. So the board has to delay the planned result release date. :mrgreen:


Couldn't we sue for a delay like that? Or could our employers? Not having a bar license deprives us of making money so...


Hmmmmm, what right is being deprived? A right to the licence or a right to earn a living? Are you being deprived of a right when you haven't been issued the licence yet? If you do have a right to the license, is an administrative delay (made is good faith) before issuance a deprivation of that right? :?:

Re: 2017 July California Bar

Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:35 am
by InterAlia1961
fear_no_evil wrote:Hmmmmm, what right is being deprived? A right to the licence or a right to earn a living? Are you being deprived of a right when you haven't been issued the licence yet? If you do have a right to the license, is an administrative delay (made is good faith) before issuance a deprivation of that right? :?:


The State Bar must release the scores on time. In California, a plaintiff may bring an action to enforce a primary right. A plaintiff has the primary right to enjoy the benefit of a fully performed contract. Here, should the State Bar fail to release the scores on the stated date, they will deprive all test takers of the right to full performance of the agreement between them and the State Bar. Specifically, the failure of the State Bar to release the scores on the stated date will be a failure of a condition subsequent agreed upon by the parties when they entered into the specific agreement. The applicant agrees to show up and take the test, and abide by the final score. The State Bar agrees to admit qualified candidates to the testing centers provided payment has been made. At the time of payment, and the inception of the legally binding agreement, the release date is clearly stated. In order to fulfill their duty under the contract, the State Bar must release the scores on November 17th. Failing to do so will deprive thousands of their primary right as recognized by California's pleading code.

:arrow: That's some lawyering, right there! :mrgreen:

Re: 2017 July California Bar

Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:44 am
by ConfusedL1
InterAlia1961 wrote:
fear_no_evil wrote:Hmmmmm, what right is being deprived? A right to the licence or a right to earn a living? Are you being deprived of a right when you haven't been issued the licence yet? If you do have a right to the license, is an administrative delay (made is good faith) before issuance a deprivation of that right? :?:


The State Bar must release the scores on time. In California, a plaintiff may bring an action to enforce a primary right. A plaintiff has the primary right to enjoy the benefit of a fully performed contract. Here, should the State Bar fail to release the scores on the stated date, they will deprive all test takers of the right to full performance of the agreement between them and the State Bar. Specifically, the failure of the State Bar to release the scores on the stated date will be a failure of a condition subsequent agreed upon by the parties when they entered into the specific agreement. The applicant agrees to show up and take the test, and abide by the final score. The State Bar agrees to admit qualified candidates to the testing centers provided payment has been made. At the time of payment, and the inception of the legally binding agreement, the release date is clearly stated. In order to fulfill their duty under the contract, the State Bar must release the scores on November 17th. Failing to do so will deprive thousands of their primary right as recognized by California's pleading code.

:arrow: That's some lawyering, right there! :mrgreen:


Lol. Good luck with that.

Re: 2017 July California Bar

Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:53 pm
by fear_no_evil
InterAlia1961 wrote:
fear_no_evil wrote:Hmmmmm, what right is being deprived? A right to the licence or a right to earn a living? Are you being deprived of a right when you haven't been issued the licence yet? If you do have a right to the license, is an administrative delay (made is good faith) before issuance a deprivation of that right? :?:


The State Bar must release the scores on time. In California, a plaintiff may bring an action to enforce a primary right. A plaintiff has the primary right to enjoy the benefit of a fully performed contract. Here, should the State Bar fail to release the scores on the stated date, they will deprive all test takers of the right to full performance of the agreement between them and the State Bar. Specifically, the failure of the State Bar to release the scores on the stated date will be a failure of a condition subsequent agreed upon by the parties when they entered into the specific agreement. The applicant agrees to show up and take the test, and abide by the final score. The State Bar agrees to admit qualified candidates to the testing centers provided payment has been made. At the time of payment, and the inception of the legally binding agreement, the release date is clearly stated. In order to fulfill their duty under the contract, the State Bar must release the scores on November 17th. Failing to do so will deprive thousands of their primary right as recognized by California's pleading code.

:arrow: That's some lawyering, right there! :mrgreen:


Ok, that’s cool. But a few questions for you (since I have nothing better to do with my time). :roll:

If you approach it as a breach of contract, wouldn’t a delay in releasing results be a minor breach, if it all, without an express clause stating that time is of the essence?

In addition, Wouldn’t the court look for “bad faith” on the part of the State bar? There is no bad faith here since any delay would be due to following orders from the Supreme Court to change the cut score right before scores are released.

Wouldn’t the Supreme Ct’s decision be considered an unforeseeable act? Wouldn’t that unforeseeable act cut off liability for such a minor breach?

Wouldn’t any duty to release scores not arise until scores have been tabulated? Even if the breaching party was responsible for meeting the condition precedent (tabulating the scores), remember, there is likely no bad faith here on the part of the state bar if results are delayed.

Would a delay in releasing results really deprive test takers of the benefit of their bargain? They would still receive the results, just not at the expected time. Especially If the delay is reasonable due to an unforeseeable act, outside the control of the breaching party, and the breach can be cured in a reasonable amount of time?

Are the damages foreseeable? Is it foreseeable that an employer would pull a job offer (if that's your loss) before results are released, due to a delay from the State Bar, outside of applicants control?

Just some thoughts. I must really be bored. :?

Re: 2017 July California Bar

Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:07 pm
by CAnow
fear_no_evil wrote: I must really be bored. :?


I miss that feeling. I've got a boatload of work and can't seem to get caught up. It's 10PM here in Texas and I'm still stuck at the office...

Re: 2017 July California Bar

Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:11 pm
by a male human
I left at 8 PM and just got home. I hate it. It's like taking a final exam every day. Now I have to make dinner and push my to-do list even further.

I know I shouldn't complain about work in a topic full of people waiting on bar results, but...

Re: 2017 July California Bar

Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 9:14 am
by InterAlia1961
fear_no_evil wrote:
Ok, that’s cool. But a few questions for you (since I have nothing better to do with my time). :roll:

If you approach it as a breach of contract, wouldn’t a delay in releasing results be a minor breach, if it all, without an express clause stating that time is of the essence?

In addition, Wouldn’t the court look for “bad faith” on the part of the State bar? There is no bad faith here since any delay would be due to following orders from the Supreme Court to change the cut score right before scores are released.

Wouldn’t the Supreme Ct’s decision be considered an unforeseeable act? Wouldn’t that unforeseeable act cut off liability for such a minor breach?

Wouldn’t any duty to release scores not arise until scores have been tabulated? Even if the breaching party was responsible for meeting the condition precedent (tabulating the scores), remember, there is likely no bad faith here on the part of the state bar if results are delayed.

Would a delay in releasing results really deprive test takers of the benefit of their bargain? They would still receive the results, just not at the expected time. Especially If the delay is reasonable due to an unforeseeable act, outside the control of the breaching party, and the breach can be cured in a reasonable amount of time?

Are the damages foreseeable? Is it foreseeable that an employer would pull a job offer (if that's your loss) before results are released, due to a delay from the State Bar, outside of applicants control?

Just some thoughts. I must really be bored. :?


Dude, you're going to be an awesome lawyer. I get you about the boredom. It's especially frustrating because if I knew that I passed, I could be doing things and making plans. Instead, I wait. But if they don't release the scores on time, it will cause great wailing and gnashing of teeth throughout Cali, and beyond. I'll be vein-popping pissed if that happens.

Re: 2017 July California Bar

Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 7:09 pm
by fear_no_evil
InterAlia1961 wrote:
fear_no_evil wrote:
Ok, that’s cool. But a few questions for you (since I have nothing better to do with my time). :roll:

If you approach it as a breach of contract, wouldn’t a delay in releasing results be a minor breach, if it all, without an express clause stating that time is of the essence?

In addition, Wouldn’t the court look for “bad faith” on the part of the State bar? There is no bad faith here since any delay would be due to following orders from the Supreme Court to change the cut score right before scores are released.

Wouldn’t the Supreme Ct’s decision be considered an unforeseeable act? Wouldn’t that unforeseeable act cut off liability for such a minor breach?

Wouldn’t any duty to release scores not arise until scores have been tabulated? Even if the breaching party was responsible for meeting the condition precedent (tabulating the scores), remember, there is likely no bad faith here on the part of the state bar if results are delayed.

Would a delay in releasing results really deprive test takers of the benefit of their bargain? They would still receive the results, just not at the expected time. Especially If the delay is reasonable due to an unforeseeable act, outside the control of the breaching party, and the breach can be cured in a reasonable amount of time?

Are the damages foreseeable? Is it foreseeable that an employer would pull a job offer (if that's your loss) before results are released, due to a delay from the State Bar, outside of applicants control?

Just some thoughts. I must really be bored. :?


Dude, you're going to be an awesome lawyer. I get you about the boredom. It's especially frustrating because if I knew that I passed, I could be doing things and making plans. Instead, I wait. But if they don't release the scores on time, it will cause great wailing and gnashing of teeth throughout Cali, and beyond. I'll be vein-popping pissed if that happens.


Yeah, I'm staying positive and already planning as if I passed. I feel pretty good about how I performed on the exam. If they lower the cut score its like icing on the cake, I hope. I don't want any delay with the results, but, I guess all will be forgiven if I passed.

Re: 2017 July California Bar

Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 6:44 pm
by Alt123
Court declines to lower the score for the time being.

https://newsroom.courts.ca.gov/news/sup ... a-bar-exam

ANXIETY AT MAX

Re: 2017 July California Bar

Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 6:46 pm
by a male human
shiiit sorry guys

Re: 2017 July California Bar

Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 7:07 pm
by justanotheruser
Alt123 wrote:Court declines to lower the score for the time being.

https://newsroom.courts.ca.gov/news/sup ... a-bar-exam

ANXIETY AT MAX


Fuck.

Re: 2017 July California Bar

Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 7:09 pm
by SmokeytheBear
a male human wrote:shiiit sorry guys


yeah super sorry amigos.

Re: 2017 July California Bar

Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 7:10 pm
by sk1130
Alt123 wrote:Court declines to lower the score for the time being.

https://newsroom.courts.ca.gov/news/sup ... a-bar-exam

ANXIETY AT MAX


Damn. Can't believe I was semi-optimistic for a second :|

Re: 2017 July California Bar

Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 7:27 pm
by fear_no_evil
sk1130 wrote:
Alt123 wrote:Court declines to lower the score for the time being.

https://newsroom.courts.ca.gov/news/sup ... a-bar-exam

ANXIETY AT MAX


Damn. Can't believe I was semi-optimistic for a second :|


Me too... but I still hope to see an increase in the pass rate. I think the new 2 day format and the increase in MBE weighting(50%) will help a lot of people.

Re: 2017 July California Bar

Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 7:34 pm
by justanotheruser
fear_no_evil wrote:
sk1130 wrote:
Alt123 wrote:Court declines to lower the score for the time being.

https://newsroom.courts.ca.gov/news/sup ... a-bar-exam

ANXIETY AT MAX


Damn. Can't believe I was semi-optimistic for a second :|


Me too... but I still hope to see an increase in the pass rate. I think the new 2 day format and the increase in MBE weighting(50%) will help a lot of people.


Any chance the grading criteria/rubric for the essays will be a little more lenient too? (I know, grasping at straws here)

Re: 2017 July California Bar

Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 7:36 pm
by ManoftheHour
Damn it. S@#$!!!

Re: 2017 July California Bar

Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 7:42 pm
by jman77
I'm surprised the court didn't at least go down to 1414. I am almost 100% sure the pass rates will go up by a non-negligible rate with the new 2-day, 50/50 format and there will be less fervor to push for a lower cut score moving forward. This matter is probably as good as dead.

Re: 2017 July California Bar

Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 7:48 pm
by fear_no_evil
jman77 wrote:I'm surprised the court didn't at least go down to 1414. I am almost 100% sure the pass rates will go up by a non-negligible rate with the new 2-day, 50/50 format and there will be less fervor to push for a lower cut score moving forward. This matter is probably as good as dead.


Unfortunately, you may be right.

Re: 2017 July California Bar

Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:22 pm
by Jay.T17
Ahhh not lowering the cut score hurts. Ca will probably have a overall pass rate of 50% and first time take pass rate of 60%. Similiar to July 2014 when the National MBE average was about the same as this year.

Re: 2017 July California Bar

Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:40 pm
by mcmand
Disappointing that the Court couldn't be a leader on this.

Re: 2017 July California Bar

Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 9:36 pm
by justanotheruser
mcmand wrote:Disappointing that the Court couldn't be a leader on this.


Really surprised given that the State Bar was ready to lower the score