2017 July California Bar Forum

[Alt123]

Barbri keeps recommending we study not more than 8-10 hours a day but never specifies how many days a week. Since we get assignments every day... I assume it means 7 days a week?

[MrT]

Barbri keeps recommending we study not more than 8-10 hours a day but never specifies how many days a week. Since we get assignments every day... I assume it means 7 days a week?

Yes, you should study 7 days a week. That being said, I'd do 8-10 hours Monday through Friday and 4-6 on the weekends. With some exceptions, Barbri goes pretty easy on the schedule on the weekends.

[Alt123]

Barbri keeps recommending we study not more than 8-10 hours a day but never specifies how many days a week. Since we get assignments every day... I assume it means 7 days a week?

Yes, you should study 7 days a week. That being said, I'd do 8-10 hours Monday through Friday and 4-6 on the weekends. With some exceptions, Barbri goes pretty easy on the schedule on the weekends.

Do you not recommend doing something like 8-10 for 6 days a week and taking 1 day off? Hearing a lot of conflicting things

[MrT]

Barbri keeps recommending we study not more than 8-10 hours a day but never specifies how many days a week. Since we get assignments every day... I assume it means 7 days a week?

Yes, you should study 7 days a week. That being said, I'd do 8-10 hours Monday through Friday and 4-6 on the weekends. With some exceptions, Barbri goes pretty easy on the schedule on the weekends.

Do you not recommend doing something like 8-10 for 6 days a week and taking 1 day off? Hearing a lot of conflicting things

I can only speak to what I did. I don't think there is any one right way to pass the bar. I know people that took weekends off completely and passed and I also know people that studied 8-10 hours for seven days a week and failed.

Ultimately, I'd say trust the system and make sure you're getting everything done. Barbri offers a ton of analytics to help you understand your progress. If you're consistently in the 90th percentile in all the MBE subjects and getting solid scores on your essay submissions, you're probably okay to take a little extra time off. However, if you're seeing yourself at the other end (20th-30th percentile and bad essay scores), you may want to reflect on the amount of time you're putting in on a daily basis.

One thing I would note is that there is such thing as diminishing returns when studying for the bar. You have to take some time off or you're (1) going to lose it mentally and (2) wear yourself out before the real deal. Get out, see friends, go to the movies, do whatever helps you relax. It's a long process and you need to pace yourself. As long as you are keeping up with the schedule, you'll be fine.

[dredd16]

Barbri keeps recommending we study not more than 8-10 hours a day but never specifies how many days a week. Since we get assignments every day... I assume it means 7 days a week?

Yes, you should study 7 days a week. That being said, I'd do 8-10 hours Monday through Friday and 4-6 on the weekends. With some exceptions, Barbri goes pretty easy on the schedule on the weekends.

Do you not recommend doing something like 8-10 for 6 days a week and taking 1 day off? Hearing a lot of conflicting things

Barbri is a one size fits all program. Its schedule might not fit you. Some people may study more than you. Some people may study less than you. People will pass after having studying at differing degrees. Some people will fail too. Alter your study plans based around what you perceive your weaknesses to be. Damn, Barbri didn't give me enough time to memorize Torts. So on your off day, study torts or something.

What I can tell you is that it's imperative that you practice essays. If you don't practice TIMED essays, you are doomed to fail. Issue spotting is the name of the game on the bar exam.

Barbri is a program that essentially is designed to help people learn the BLL. They don't teach you the nuances of writing essays for the CA bar. Freak out about not knowing rules well enough to write essays, but don't let that be an indication that you should study BLL only and completely forgo essay writing practice. Essay writing practice is key to you developing a consistency in presentation, timing, and mental aptitude when it comes to writing essays on the CA bar.

Check out my tips here: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 6#p9987596 . They will help you get you to how you need to write your essays and get the 65s+.

Trust me.

[Guchster]

Barbri keeps recommending we study not more than 8-10 hours a day but never specifies how many days a week. Since we get assignments every day... I assume it means 7 days a week?

Yes, you should study 7 days a week. That being said, I'd do 8-10 hours Monday through Friday and 4-6 on the weekends. With some exceptions, Barbri goes pretty easy on the schedule on the weekends.

Do you not recommend doing something like 8-10 for 6 days a week and taking 1 day off? Hearing a lot of conflicting things

You're early enough in the process that you can do whatever is working best for you. I personally did not take a day off because I was working while studying for the CBX, but when I took the NY Bar I also did not take a day off. I don't get burned out easily, and my bigger issues is with momentum (issues with both enjoying my day off properly and getting back into a groove). When I take a day off, it screws up my internal system and I have trouble getting back on track (and I found myself not enjoying my time off so ti was just causing too much chaos). So it was more effective for me to work calmly and consistently over 7 days rather than try to squeeze in 5-6 days of work and take the remaining ones off. But note, I still made sure to only work half days on weekends until around July 4th (when I went HAM). I also didn't work so hard during the week early on (maybe 5 hours a day).

I know plenty of people who passed on the first time who only studied M-F until the last month of bar prep, because had they not done that, they would've burned out before July.

Try to think what will be most effective for you in keeping your head in the game while remaining refreshed and committed.

[a male human]

A. "Trust the system"
B. "Trust me"
C. "Trust yourself"
D. None of the above

C is the credited answer.

[TEIAM]

A. "Trust the system"
B. "Trust me"
C. "Trust yourself"
D. None of the above

C is the credited answer.

Trusting yourself is why California has a 43% pass rate

[a male human]

A. "Trust the system"
B. "Trust me"
C. "Trust yourself"
D. None of the above

C is the credited answer.

Trusting yourself is why California has a 43% pass rate

I submit it's because people go the "safe" route of doing whatever Barbri, Kaplan, and Themis tell you to do, instead of thinking about it and doing what makes sense for you.

[TEIAM]

A. "Trust the system"
B. "Trust me"
C. "Trust yourself"
D. None of the above

C is the credited answer.

Trusting yourself is why California has a 43% pass rate

I submit it's because people go the "safe" route of doing whatever Barbri, Kaplan, and Themis tell you to do, instead of thinking about it and doing what makes sense for you.

All of those programs have proven track records. If you complete the program, you have a pretty solid chance (75%+) of passing. It's those that deviate because they "know themselves" that don't end up passing. Absolutely, to some extent, you should tailor your SUPPLEMENTAL study to yourself, but I'd advocate all day following the system.

[a male human]

A. "Trust the system"
B. "Trust me"
C. "Trust yourself"
D. None of the above

C is the credited answer.

Trusting yourself is why California has a 43% pass rate

I submit it's because people go the "safe" route of doing whatever Barbri, Kaplan, and Themis tell you to do, instead of thinking about it and doing what makes sense for you.

All of those programs have proven track records. If you complete the program, you have a pretty solid chance (75%+) of passing. It's those that deviate because they "know themselves" that don't end up passing. Absolutely, to some extent, you should tailor your SUPPLEMENTAL study to yourself, but I'd advocate all day following the system.

If that's your (or anyone else's) reasoned will, I support your path 100%.

To be clear, I agree to a large extent what MrT, dredd, and Guchster said. In fact, they took the words right out of my mouth in many parts. I just wanted to emphasize that, ultimately, this is your bar exam. You're the most invested in it, not Barbri, not the rest of us.

And chances are, if you're on TLS, you don't just want the easy way out. You're willing to do the hard work and the smart work. I believe that includes listening to yourself, which may involve trying different things and seeing what works for you.

[TheLegalOne]

I still have not accepted that I did not pass the Feb2017 CBX. However, since I just paid for Jul2017, I better set my denial aside and get back on the horse. I'm working full-time, with a heavy business travel calendar in June. Saying a prayer that I can keep my eyes on the prize because every time I think of how freaking hard I went last round and still failed, I get pissed! Good luck to everyone studying for the Jul17 CBX!

Essay 1: 75/60/65
Essay 2: 55/60/57.5
Essay 3: 65/65/65
Essay 4: 55/55/55
Essay 5: 70/65/67.5
Essay 6: 60/60/60
PTA: 50/50/50
PTB: 65/65/65

Raw Written: 600.0
Scaled Written: 1355.6700
Scaled MBE: 1531.00

Total Scaled: 1417.xxxx

MBE %tile
Civ Pro: 74.4
Con Law 84.8
K: 83.7
Crim Law: 83.2
Evidence: 86.1
Prop: 68.1
Torts: 77.6

Local: 86.0 / Ntl. 89.8

Damn, looks like it came down to just writing a bad demand letter re: PTA.

You just need to maintain. Assuming a 50/50 split between the essays and the MBE, you would've gotten a 1443 and passed the bar in February. I'm sorry you have to go through this again, but you don't have to improve--you just need to perform the same and looks like you can even afford a slightly worse performance.

It feels like I'm starting from scratch. This is always painful. I definitely need to improve on the PTs. I have a lot of PT practice on my schedule.

[TEIAM]

A. "Trust the system"
B. "Trust me"
C. "Trust yourself"
D. None of the above

C is the credited answer.

Trusting yourself is why California has a 43% pass rate

I submit it's because people go the "safe" route of doing whatever Barbri, Kaplan, and Themis tell you to do, instead of thinking about it and doing what makes sense for you.

All of those programs have proven track records. If you complete the program, you have a pretty solid chance (75%+) of passing. It's those that deviate because they "know themselves" that don't end up passing. Absolutely, to some extent, you should tailor your SUPPLEMENTAL study to yourself, but I'd advocate all day following the system.

If that's your (or anyone else's) reasoned will, I support your path 100%.

To be clear, I agree to a large extent what MrT, dredd, and Guchster said. In fact, they took the words right out of my mouth in many parts. I just wanted to emphasize that, ultimately, this is your bar exam. You're the most invested in it, not Barbri, not the rest of us.

And chances are, if you're on TLS, you don't just want the easy way out. You're willing to do the hard work and the smart work. I believe that includes listening to yourself, which may involve trying different things and seeing what works for you.

That I can support. My only point is that you shouldn't go rogue.

[dredd16]

That I can support. My only point is that you shouldn't go rogue.

Going rogue in itself is not the issue. It's how you go rogue. And of course this is a case by case basis. Like if you stop doing Barbri's MBE questions but do Adaptibar instead and stop watching lectures and use that time in a more productive manner that actually addresses your weaknesses, then you should be fine.

But if you go rogue and just study BLL all day and expect to walk into the bar writing a law school exam, then you will fail (like my for my first time).

[Guchster]

It feels like I'm starting from scratch. This is always painful. I definitely need to improve on the PTs. I have a lot of PT practice on my schedule.

Best of luck to you! Just show up and do what you did in February and you'll definitely pass. What happened to you isn't fair (knowing you would've passed had the split been 50/50), but remember life has knocked you down before and you've gotten up each time. This is no different!

At least you don't have to hire a tutor or re-formulate your essay approach or re-strategize your study techinque. You just need to keep the knowledge and skills you possessed in February fresh. Focus on polishing and kill it!

[optimistic_owl]

if anyone is looking for a proponics / bar secrets account... I have one that doesn't expire until August. (they do 6 month subscriptions, and I got one in early/mid February to prep for the Feb 2017 test!)

Looks like they cost $130 now, but I'd happily to sell my info to one of you for 50% of the price ($65). Logic here being... we will both have used it for one test sitting

feel free to message me if interested.

Regardless if you want to buy my account or maybe get your own... I really enjoyed using this. I pretty much relied on it exclusively during the final 1-2 weeks for memorization drills (in addition to doing lots of practice!). And it worked. I felt much better going into the Feb 2017 test than I did during July 2016.

If I were to do this test again, I would be using this much earlier. (Also get your hands on an AdaptiBar account if you can!) Proponics is great for visual learners because it shows you all the BLL and helps you categorize the many areas within a given subject into one, easy-to-digest expandable/collapsable graph! plus, these guys keep the material updated... and the tests/elements seemed identical to what was used in BarBri. highly recommend!

good luck to all the test takers out there!

[changing_names]

Anyone have any Real Property suggestions? Just can't seem to get a handle on all of that material. Contracts (in terms of MBE and essays) went pretty smoothly but Real Property has hit me like a brick. I did the Themis lectures and am in the process of making my own flashcards (how I learn) but OMG is there a lot. I knew it would because property was also my worst subject 1L year. I feel like I can get stuck here for weeks trying to master it and still be lost, on everything. That's the problem, not even stuck or not understanding 1 thing, just the entire subject does not feel intuitive. Any tips and tricks?

[a male human]

Anyone have any Real Property suggestions? Just can't seem to get a handle on all of that material. Contracts (in terms of MBE and essays) went pretty smoothly but Real Property has hit me like a brick. I did the Themis lectures and am in the process of making my own flashcards (how I learn) but OMG is there a lot. I knew it would because property was also my worst subject 1L year. I feel like I can get stuck here for weeks trying to master it and still be lost, on everything. That's the problem, not even stuck or not understanding 1 thing, just the entire subject does not feel intuitive. Any tips and tricks?

If you're stuck on Real Property or any subject for that matter, try solving problems for that subject instead of theorizing the law. You might be able to get a better handle or intuition on how the principles work when you actually try to apply them, fail to do so, read the MBE explanation or model answer, and try the questions again.

[sk1130]

Can't seem to get my attention to last longer than 4 or 5 hours at a time, after which I hit a wall. Any suggestions for keeping the momentum going each day?

Also, I'm feeling uneasy because Barbri's assigned work doesn't last 8-10 hours a day right now. I know it will ramp up soon (this is my second time) but i'm finding that i'm not very good at making my own schedule.

[changing_names]

The Themis modules for the first few weeks also weren't lasting 8-10 hours. I, and several other classmates, would finish them within 6 hours. Whenever there is free time, I pop open AdaptiBar and my "things I get wrong-outline" and start doing practice questions and keeping track of concepts I need to review, go over those, and continue on with more questions. Week 4 things started to get closer to that 8-10 hour bracket.
Everyone studies differently (I know, a given) but what I do is set a timer. I study for an hour and a half, take a 30 minute break. Study for an hour and a half, take a 30 minute break. Some of my friends are doing a 20min-10min ratio while others work in shifts: they'll work for 3 hours in the morning, 3 hours in the afternoon, and then a few more in the evening. But, what's true of all of us is that what we have settled on as a schedule *is not* what we started with.

I think playing around with study styles in the early weeks is ideal. That's when I figured out that "reviewing outlines" was a waste of my time and instead I would rather make my own flashcards and do questions (while others are using CriticalPass)...basic point is, has one study process turned out to be more effective for you than another?

Although, since the Bar is a lengthy test morning-afternoon it might be good to get used to concentrating for an extended period of time. Then again, that's something you can probably tweak the last few weeks and now just focus on absorbing information. How do you study currently/what is your schedule now?

Can't seem to get my attention to last longer than 4 or 5 hours at a time, after which I hit a wall. Any suggestions for keeping the momentum going each day?

Also, I'm feeling uneasy because Barbri's assigned work doesn't last 8-10 hours a day right now. I know it will ramp up soon (this is my second time) but i'm finding that i'm not very good at making my own schedule.

[sk1130]

The Themis modules for the first few weeks also weren't lasting 8-10 hours. I, and several other classmates, would finish them within 6 hours. Whenever there is free time, I pop open AdaptiBar and my "things I get wrong-outline" and start doing practice questions and keeping track of concepts I need to review, go over those, and continue on with more questions. Week 4 things started to get closer to that 8-10 hour bracket.
Everyone studies differently (I know, a given) but what I do is set a timer. I study for an hour and a half, take a 30 minute break. Study for an hour and a half, take a 30 minute break. Some of my friends are doing a 20min-10min ratio while others work in shifts: they'll work for 3 hours in the morning, 3 hours in the afternoon, and then a few more in the evening. But, what's true of all of us is that what we have settled on as a schedule *is not* what we started with.

I think playing around with study styles in the early weeks is ideal. That's when I figured out that "reviewing outlines" was a waste of my time and instead I would rather make my own flashcards and do questions (while others are using CriticalPass)...basic point is, has one study process turned out to be more effective for you than another?

Although, since the Bar is a lengthy test morning-afternoon it might be good to get used to concentrating for an extended period of time. Then again, that's something you can probably tweak the last few weeks and now just focus on absorbing information. How do you study currently/what is your schedule now?

Can't seem to get my attention to last longer than 4 or 5 hours at a time, after which I hit a wall. Any suggestions for keeping the momentum going each day?

Also, I'm feeling uneasy because Barbri's assigned work doesn't last 8-10 hours a day right now. I know it will ramp up soon (this is my second time) but i'm finding that i'm not very good at making my own schedule.

I think I would be able to focus for longer periods of time if I had a set/strict schedule to follow, because right now once I finish everything Barbri wants me to do it's difficult for me to set up my own schedule for the evening. But like you said, it will pick up in a few weeks.

Right now, I usually do the lectures in the mornings from 8/9-12 and then I review the lecture hand out and go over the outline for about 1.5/2 hours and then after that is when I usually lose steam.

You mentioned Adaptibar. I have that also and I'm trying to follow their model of 50 questions per subject until you reach 350 in practice mode. But I don't like to start questions in a particular subject until I've at least started reviewing it. I'm still not too familiar with the site. Is there a place on Adaptibar I can just do random questions without diving into the 50 questions for each subject? (not sure if this question makes sense)

[MrT]

Can't seem to get my attention to last longer than 4 or 5 hours at a time, after which I hit a wall. Any suggestions for keeping the momentum going each day?

Also, I'm feeling uneasy because Barbri's assigned work doesn't last 8-10 hours a day right now. I know it will ramp up soon (this is my second time) but i'm finding that i'm not very good at making my own schedule.

As to the first question, take a break in the middle of the day. Go for a walk, hit the gym, do something mindless and get back at it an hour or two later.

For the second question, I found it helpful to work ahead. At one point in my study I was a few days ahead of the schedule and it allowed me to have a steadier stream of work later on. As you said, it definitely ramps up and it can seem overwhelming on some days. Do what you can to minimize that stress later on.

[changing_names]

For AdaptiBar--I think the way to customize a "mixed question" test would be to go to the "Practice Exam" section, select all subjects and type in 50-that should generate a mixed-subject 50 question test. This is also how you customize it if you want to just test weak areas (in one or more subjects). Maybe I have misunderstood what you are asking?

Have you tried switching lectures to afternoon? For example, most bar prep programs are set up with lectures in the morning and assignments in the afternoon. BUT, I know that my mind works a lot better in the mornings, I am more alert. So, I study the subject that I am to be tested on in the afternoon, and do the corresponding assigned essays/practice exams the following morning. Meaning, I don't do a full day of one subject. I do morning of assignments from prior day's subject and an afternoon of fresh new lectures (for which I will do the assignments the next morning)...does this make sense? I am having trouble explaining it. BUT, what I do after that lecture is hop on adaptibar and do questions for what I just did a lecture on AND include questions from subjectsI have already reviewed.

I totally hear the other poster on front-loading some work but my only concern with that would be giving yourself time to digest and apply information. For example, one could do let's say 20 lectures in one day but I know that after 10 my mind starts to fade. So, instead, I do whatever lectures I am assigned and with free time I power through MBE and work on my weak spots with the MBE. Soon I will start plugging in essays into that free time but I know my weaknesses (multiple choice) so I am trying to work on that as much as possible.

So, maybe try: assignments/lectures in the morning (consider giving yourself a break every so often), lunch/gym, assignments/lectures, dinner, MBE/essay work for 2 hours and then break (or, if you're done early in the afternoon then move MBE/essay prep into the afternoon and be done with everything by dinner time).

For perspective, everyone that I know from my school (T10) is finishing up by 6/7pm (with the exception of people doing 3 separate shifts throughout the day which just sounds terrible to me but it works for them!). You want to maintain until the end of July so there is no need to study 14 hours a day every day. If you put in a productive 8-10 these early weeks you'll be fine, just make sure they are engaged. Meaning, if you get something wrong then review it, write that concept down, review it again, and make sure you test yourself on it via MBE/essay. If you get something right but guessed, do the same. When you review essays, even if you missed a single issue-outline that issue, outline that entire essay over again in a few days without notes (I think no need to rewrite) and make sure you catch that the second time around.

Best of luck, you're on the right track and have all of the tools AND I promise you MANY MANY MANY of us are with you...it's just tough to stay focused for that long. It simply gets boring day after day after day. But, we just have to buckle down and do it. Throw in a few pump-up songs mid-way or something.

Can't seem to get my attention to last longer than 4 or 5 hours at a time, after which I hit a wall. Any suggestions for keeping the momentum going each day?

Also, I'm feeling uneasy because Barbri's assigned work doesn't last 8-10 hours a day right now. I know it will ramp up soon (this is my second time) but i'm finding that i'm not very good at making my own schedule.

[/quote]

[sk1130]

For AdaptiBar--I think the way to customize a "mixed question" test would be to go to the "Practice Exam" section, select all subjects and type in 50-that should generate a mixed-subject 50 question test. This is also how you customize it if you want to just test weak areas (in one or more subjects). Maybe I have misunderstood what you are asking?

Have you tried switching lectures to afternoon? For example, most bar prep programs are set up with lectures in the morning and assignments in the afternoon. BUT, I know that my mind works a lot better in the mornings, I am more alert. So, I study the subject that I am to be tested on in the afternoon, and do the corresponding assigned essays/practice exams the following morning. Meaning, I don't do a full day of one subject. I do morning of assignments from prior day's subject and an afternoon of fresh new lectures (for which I will do the assignments the next morning)...does this make sense? I am having trouble explaining it. BUT, what I do after that lecture is hop on adaptibar and do questions for what I just did a lecture on AND include questions from subjectsI have already reviewed.

I totally hear the other poster on front-loading some work but my only concern with that would be giving yourself time to digest and apply information. For example, one could do let's say 20 lectures in one day but I know that after 10 my mind starts to fade. So, instead, I do whatever lectures I am assigned and with free time I power through MBE and work on my weak spots with the MBE. Soon I will start plugging in essays into that free time but I know my weaknesses (multiple choice) so I am trying to work on that as much as possible.

So, maybe try: assignments/lectures in the morning (consider giving yourself a break every so often), lunch/gym, assignments/lectures, dinner, MBE/essay work for 2 hours and then break (or, if you're done early in the afternoon then move MBE/essay prep into the afternoon and be done with everything by dinner time).

For perspective, everyone that I know from my school (T10) is finishing up by 6/7pm (with the exception of people doing 3 separate shifts throughout the day which just sounds terrible to me but it works for them!). You want to maintain until the end of July so there is no need to study 14 hours a day every day. If you put in a productive 8-10 these early weeks you'll be fine, just make sure they are engaged. Meaning, if you get something wrong then review it, write that concept down, review it again, and make sure you test yourself on it via MBE/essay. If you get something right but guessed, do the same. When you review essays, even if you missed a single issue-outline that issue, outline that entire essay over again in a few days without notes (I think no need to rewrite) and make sure you catch that the second time around.

Best of luck, you're on the right track and have all of the tools AND I promise you MANY MANY MANY of us are with you...it's just tough to stay focused for that long. It simply gets boring day after day after day. But, we just have to buckle down and do it. Throw in a few pump-up songs mid-way or something.

Can't seem to get my attention to last longer than 4 or 5 hours at a time, after which I hit a wall. Any suggestions for keeping the momentum going each day?

Also, I'm feeling uneasy because Barbri's assigned work doesn't last 8-10 hours a day right now. I know it will ramp up soon (this is my second time) but i'm finding that i'm not very good at making my own schedule.

[/quote]

I've thought about saving watching lectures for the afternoon because i'm also more alert in the morning and it's a little draining. Thank you SO, so much for all your great advice and suggestions, changing_names! I really appreciate it

[rcharter1978]

A. "Trust the system"
B. "Trust me"
C. "Trust yourself"
D. None of the above

C is the credited answer.

Trusting yourself is why California has a 43% pass rate

There are a million reasons why the cbx has a low pass rate. People putting an emphasis on quantity of work over quality of work is one of them. Which goes hand in hand with trusting someone else and not yourself. The CBX is not insurmountable, but abandoning everything you know works for you is a surefire way to fail at anything.