2017 July California Bar Forum

[PassedFeb2017]

Thank goodness for this forum. After multi-attempts, I finally passed. Sign up for my tutor services here: mod edit: user has been banned for spamming prep services (and really???)

[gymtanlaw]

Wow, I could not hold back from posting! $3,500 for bar tutoring from someone who passed the bar a mere few days ago. I passed the CA Bar Exam a few days ago, with an MBE score above a 150, and passed the FL Bar in July 2015, but that no way makes me or anyone who just passed the Bar prepared to be a tutor. To all who are consider getting a tutor, make sure you make an informed decision as to who you go with. My tutor/ course instructor spends months and months dissecting the hornbooks and treatises the examiners use to write the exam to create outlines, essay rules, etc... He also goes and takes the MBE in various states to always be current with the questions being asked. My tutor charged $1,300 more than PassedFeb2017 is charging for his tutoring. If you didn't pass and are considering a specialized course other than the commercial bar companies, please make an informed decision and find a tutor who lives and breathes the bar exam. I think its great that PassedFeb2017 aspires to be a bar tutor, but it takes a long time before you can charge $3,500 for a course. Once he reaches the level of knowing the exact pulse of the CA bar exam, then $3,500 will be merited. As a fellow Feb 2017 passer I would be embarrassed to charge those prices for my bar advice.

As a general question: Why does everyone always recommend Adaptibar? I found the Best Multis program was much better for MBEs. The questions were more on point, the explanations are flawless and more in depth, and the Civ Pro questions were more accurate than what you see on test day. I've used both and hands down preferred Best Multis.

[Guchster]

Before selecting a bar exam tutor, please know that there are many highly recommended tutors who were former bar exam graders and can help you peek behind the veil of how graders think and assess answers. I personally did not use one, but if I failed and struggled on the essays I would've hired one.

Many people in past CA Bar Exam threads who passed are willing to provide names of former exam grader tutors they use. I would poke around these threads to find these users and find out who they used.

Don't take a gamble and throw your chances to the wind. You deserve better than that and you'll thank me later.

[legalmindedfellow]

Glad that this thread is open, good luck to everyone as studying begins!

Wondering if I can have some help. I'm trying to work out a benchmark target for the MBE portion. Given the new format, does anyone know the best estimate for an MBE score that will put you in good territory for passing (whether estimating raw or scaled?)

As a data point, I had a scaled MBE of 155 in New York, which was good enough for passage. Of course, the score isn't transferring, and I could easily do worse on the MBE than what I was able to do previously. But I don't have any clue whether that past result is under- or over-shooting what will be necessary in California.

Thanks for any help anyone can offer - even if it's just explaining the process on how to figure this out.

The target to shoot for if you want 1440 scaled is about 129 raw (out of the 190 scored).

I say this based on this old conversion table, which doesn't apply to any given exam, just the one it was released for: http://admissions.calbar.ca.gov/portals ... l_info.pdf

Since 175 out of 200 are graded now, it might throw off this number a bit. Safe bet is to get to at least 65% correct on your practice runs.

But even more helpful would be to figure out where you're weak and work on those subjects. Track your correct % rate for each subject and major issue so that you can pinpoint which areas you should focus more on. I kept a running rank of subjects, and paid more attention to the bottom three subjects as well as topics I wasn't good at.

The overall % doesn't tell you much. It could be because you're doing really well in one subject but badly in another. If you improved the bad subject, you'd increase your overall win rate. Just something I did that might be helpful to you.

This too:

Scaled MBE score of 155 should be good for CA.

CA's cut score for passing is 144.1.

Thank you (and thank you, dredd16). For the 65% target especially.

Glad that this thread is open, good luck to everyone as studying begins!

Wondering if I can have some help. I'm trying to work out a benchmark target for the MBE portion. Given the new format, does anyone know the best estimate for an MBE score that will put you in good territory for passing (whether estimating raw or scaled?)

As a data point, I had a scaled MBE of 155 in New York, which was good enough for passage. Of course, the score isn't transferring, and I could easily do worse on the MBE than what I was able to do previously. But I don't have any clue whether that past result is under- or over-shooting what will be necessary in California.

Thanks for any help anyone can offer - even if it's just explaining the process on how to figure this out.

MBE definitely swings at least for me. Scored 158 July 2016, only managed 149 Feb 2017. But some people are saying Feb is on a more difficult curve, which means with the same raw score, your July scaled score will be higher than Feb scaled score.

Thanks - that's really helpful to know.

[logical seasoning]

If anyone wants $30 off Adaptibar, PM me with your email!





I think this is OK, please don't ban me if it's not

[a male human]

It is "OK"; a lot of users spam the "PM me if anyone wants a discount" on the forum. But the marketing guy at AdaptiBar hates it.

[Guchster]

If anyone wants $30 off Adaptibar, PM me with your email!





I think this is OK, please don't ban me if it's not

IMHO giving people a discount is different than soliciting people to "try" your bar course for $3500 without knowing that you even passed the bar.

[a male human]

You gotta B+

(be positive)

(just realized you may not get this if you didn't look at the discussion about the $3,500 tutoring service in the February thread)

[sittin_pretty]

Having passed the Cali bar exam, I no longer need my 2017 Cali BarBri set if anyone wants to buy it for $200.... PM me

[9xSound]

If you're considering a tutor, you should insist that he or she provide you with a writing that sets forth their success rate over time — especially with recent bar exams. Success they had in 1986, '96, or even 2006 may not be relevant if they're still teaching the same exact approach they were teaching back in the day. It's a different world. The more information the prospective tutor will divulge on point, the better. Ask how many students the tutor takes on every cycle. How many people has he or she worked with over how many years? What percentage of their first timers and repeaters passed after working with him or her? I guarantee that they have these statistics — to some extent, anyway. If the tutor refuses to answer these kinds of questions in writing, flee. You deserve to know whether this person is going to lead you to likely success or likely doom before you fork over $4,000 to roll the dice. I gave thousands of dollars to an established tutor who I really liked on a personal level, but whose methods I later came to realize were outdated and sadly inadequate for the modern laptop bar exam. It further explained why not one of my classmates who also hired the person passed. After failing, I ruefully recalled how the tutor had dodged the question when I asked (verbally) what percentage of their students typically pass the bar. A tutor's personal charm and likeability cannot be your litmus test. You're not paying for a new friend. You want someone who will give you the harsh truth and won't BS you about what you're doing right and wrong. You don't need someone who just cheerleads you on with a sack of happy crap about taking bar exams. It's not about taking the bar: it's about passing the thing. For any instruction that costs more than $3,000, you deserve to be taught a comprehensive approach for passing every section of the exam, and for that kind of money, the tutor better be able to demonstrate a consistent rate of success.

[de5igual]

Joining in.

I graduated law school back in 2013 and passed the Texas bar back then. Now, I'm trying to tackle this beast while working biglaw full-time. yay! and without a formal bar study course. double yay! Instead, I'm relying on a combination of adaptibar, leansheets, conviser and baressays (in all, it was still kind of expensive).

A few thoughts or questions I had:
- is it just me or do the adaptibar practice questions seem harder than the practice exam questions?
- I get that baressays represent real scores, but holy shit is it hard to get to 65. It seems like to just "barely" pass, you'll need to know all the rule statements and spot nearly all the issues.
- For the PTs, are templates other than memos always given in the instruction memo? For example, I have no idea what a demand letter looks like, so am I expected to know that in advance?

[drawingasmile]

Just went to the CA Bar website... was not expecting the total change. I'm having trouble finding the link to sign up for the exam though... :/ Is it just me?

[cazh2017]

Hi… taking the exam at the Pasadena convention center. I am trying to save… so, thinking about either driving or taking uber to get there in the morning. Does any of you have an insight about how long the morning commute would be to the testing center from Ktown Los Angeles (where Southwestern Law School is). Is it too risky? Should I just get a hotel nearby? Thanks for any input in advance.

[rcharter1978]

Hi… taking the exam at the Pasadena convention center. I am trying to save… so, thinking about either driving or taking uber to get there in the morning. Does any of you have an insight about how long the morning commute would be to the testing center from Ktown Los Angeles (where Southwestern Law School is). Is it too risky? Should I just get a hotel nearby? Thanks for any input in advance.

Too, too, too risky. It only takes one accident on the 210 to fuck shit up. Even though you're going against traffic just don't do it. The freeways can be a shit show in the morning no matter what direction. If possible you should see if you can change to Ontario since the hotels would be less expensive. But I would not risk driving to Pasadena from anywhere in downtown.

[rcharter1978]

I'm not sure I would ask for lots of stars from a tutor. Ostensibly they take on anyone and that may include people who just aren't teachable or people unwilling to put in the work. So bad numbers may not be a reflection on them.

For me, i just knew I needed a former bar grader because essays were my weakness. And as far as I know there are only a few bar graders that offer tutoring. My tutor was not the sweetest Apple in the basket, but he offered a lot for the price and he got the job done.

[sittin_pretty]

Hi… taking the exam at the Pasadena convention center. I am trying to save… so, thinking about either driving or taking uber to get there in the morning. Does any of you have an insight about how long the morning commute would be to the testing center from Ktown Los Angeles (where Southwestern Law School is). Is it too risky? Should I just get a hotel nearby? Thanks for any input in advance.

Way too risky. I live in Los Feliz and felt even that was too risky... and puts you in a bad, sleepy, traffic-stressed mindset to start the test in. So I stayed at the Howard Johnson, a 5 minute drive from the testing site, and more affordable than other hotels. It was exactly what I needed. Nice table for studying, relatively quiet, restaurants in walking distance (and delivery).

[RickSanchez]

Anyone near palo alto need Barbri books (and maybe other books)? I forgot to return them and rather not have them.

[InterAlia1961]

Just went to the CA Bar website... was not expecting the total change. I'm having trouble finding the link to sign up for the exam though... :/ Is it just me?

The change was unexpected. I don't hate it, but I'm glad I registered on Friday evening before the change.

[Guchster]

Hi… taking the exam at the Pasadena convention center. I am trying to save… so, thinking about either driving or taking uber to get there in the morning. Does any of you have an insight about how long the morning commute would be to the testing center from Ktown Los Angeles (where Southwestern Law School is). Is it too risky? Should I just get a hotel nearby? Thanks for any input in advance.

Way too risky. I live in Los Feliz and felt even that was too risky... and puts you in a bad, sleepy, traffic-stressed mindset to start the test in. So I stayed at the Howard Johnson, a 5 minute drive from the testing site, and more affordable than other hotels. It was exactly what I needed. Nice table for studying, relatively quiet, restaurants in walking distance (and delivery).

I live in Silver Lake. I thought it was too risky. I personally was too nervous getting into a fender bender, getting stuck in traffic because of an accident or construction, and just something going wrong. I wanted to be focusing on the exam and remaining calm and wanted to minimize risk as much as possible. I stayed at the GreenTree Pasadena Inn. It's maybe a 10 minute walk to the convention center, was fairly cheap and habitable. Definitely no frills, but it was pretty quiet and across the street from whole foods. I ended up driving each day though, lol. During lunch and before the exam, I wanted some privacy and for the third day I needed somewhere to take a nap. I also didn't want to leave a backpack in the hall because I wanted to get in and out of the convention center as fast as possible.

All that being said, I told people that if I failed the bar (which I thankfully didn't), I would commute instead of getting a hotel. I'm not sure I want to hundreds of dollars on a hotel again. I personally find driving therapeutic (even sitting in traffic). In the mornings, it would've taken focus away from the stress of the exam, and in the evenings time for quiet reflection. Also, packing and getting things ready to be away from home for 3 days took time away from studying and/or preparing mentally for the exam. But most importantly, when I completely screwed up the first day, I had a panic attack in the middle of the night, and it would've helped being at home to be able to rely on my S.O. and the comfort of being at home (e.g., the hotel room got unexpectedly really cold in the middle of the night, and I didn't have extra blankets in the room; I unexpected got an upset stomach from the stress (never happens) and had to run to CVS to get pepto, etc.).

Tl;dr Now that the exam is only 2 days, I'd probably still get a hotel room. Reduces risk, but know that aside from financial costs, it carries unexpected consequences too.

STAY AWAY FROM THE SHERATON AT THE CONVENTION CENTER. It's a boiling pot of stress watching people panic around you that's inescapable. I'd recommend a hotel close but not too close.

[Brobot]

Anyone near palo alto need Barbri books (and maybe other books)? I forgot to return them and rather not have them.

[stromileswift]

If anyone needs a set of Barbri books let me know. I live in LA.

[foreignattorneyllm]

Hi Everyone, I am a foreign attorney, LLM graduate. I failed the February 2017 exam by not so many points (1394). Taking it again in July and hoping that this time things would be better

[Legallywoke]

When are people starting to study?

[CAnow]

When are people starting to study?

I started studying back in March since I'm working full-time and only have a few hours per day to study for the exam.

If you have time to study full-time, I believe they usually say start studying 2 months before the exam.

[CAnow]

Anyone have any advice on the best way to organize a community property answer? I have done a few practice questions so far, and I feel like my analysis is all over the place.