February 2017 Texas Bar Exam Forum

[Estecontre]

Is it usual practice to take the MPRE straight after the bar? I understand it's next week - I think I read somewhere it's next Friday but sorry if that's incorrect.

I wasn't planning on sitting it until I find out my exam results.

BVest already answered you, but I wanted to add some stuff. Typically people take it before they take the bar. Your scores will last a couple of years and even if you pass the bar you can't start practicing without passing the MPRE (someone with more knowledge can correct me if I'm wrong, but you won't get your license until you meet all the requirements and you're given time to do so). Texas requires a score of 85 which isn't difficult, but you should study for a couple of weeks (I studied for like 2-3 weeks). Its not as stressful as the bar and its easier to study for, but dont neglect studying for it either. Some companies offer a course for it, when I took it Themis offered a free course so i would check them out...it helped me pass and it was free! Pay attention to the deadlines too, if you file past the regular deadline the price doubles from $95 to $190.

[maztastic247]

Is it usual practice to take the MPRE straight after the bar? I understand it's next week - I think I read somewhere it's next Friday but sorry if that's incorrect.

I wasn't planning on sitting it until I find out my exam results.

BVest already answered you, but I wanted to add some stuff. Typically people take it before they take the bar. Your scores will last a couple of years and even if you pass the bar you can't start practicing without passing the MPRE (someone with more knowledge can correct me if I'm wrong, but you won't get your license until you meet all the requirements and you're given time to do so). Texas requires a score of 85 which isn't difficult, but you should study for a couple of weeks (I studied for like 2-3 weeks). Its not as stressful as the bar and its easier to study for, but dont neglect studying for it either. Some companies offer a course for it, when I took it Themis offered a free course so i would check them out...it helped me pass and it was free! Pay attention to the deadlines too, if you file past the regular deadline the price doubles from $95 to $190.

Barbri also offers a free course....studying for the MPRE is not nearly as time consuming/stressful as studying for the bar (i was able to watch the lecture in a day, I didn't have time to do any of the practice exams do to travel issues). I took the MPRE after the I took the bar in July, the MPRE was in Aug, I passes with enough points to practice in any jurisdiction with minimal studying. I didn't hear of this strategy until after I took the exam so I can't attest to the validity, but if you get to a question and you have no idea use WWJD -1, basically pick the second most ethical answer. Make sure you study for it, but there is no need to allocate 8 hours a day for days on end to studying for the MPRE

[vandyclark]

Have they not posted an estimated score release date? Maybe I'm just not finding it? When I took the Feb 2016 bar they gave us a date (subject to change of course) of when to expect our scores. Any ideas? I need a date to count down to! Plus people keep asking & asking me...

[BVest]

Is it on your admission ticket?

When are bar exam results released?
We generally release July bar exam results during the first week of November.

We generally release February bar exam results during the first week of May.

We will notify examinees of the anticipated date of grade release with their admission tickets.

Please do not contact us to ask if we will release results early.

[favrefire4]

May 1st...so April 28th.

[Estecontre]

May 1st...so April 28th.

More likely May 4th. They say the first week on May and usually they post an announcement stating that they'll be released on Friday. However, they'll most likely release a day early on Thursday.

[Leprechaun]

May 1st...so April 28th.

Instructions state:

The anticipated date for release of results is Monday, May 1, 2017.

I agree with favrefire4, likely April 28.

[Estecontre]

May 1st...so April 28th.

Instructions state:

The anticipated date for release of results is Monday, May 1, 2017.

I agree with favrefire4, likely April 28.

Yeah, just read that on the instructions you guys are probably right. My answer was based off the FAQ section on the Boards website. It's weird that they have a Monday release date for this test, but a Friday release date for July's test. Probably wanted to avoid all the "May the 4th be with you jokes"

[Leprechaun]

May 1st...so April 28th.

Instructions state:

The anticipated date for release of results is Monday, May 1, 2017.

I agree with favrefire4, likely April 28.

Yeah, just read that on the instructions you guys are probably right. My answer was based off the FAQ section on the Boards website. It's weird that they have a Monday release date for this test, but a Friday release date for July's test.

I sure hope we don't have to wait that weekend. I've been doimg fairly well in not thinking about it much, but I'm sure by that weekend I'll be refreshing the BLE page like 30 times a minute.

[Estecontre]

May 1st...so April 28th.

Instructions state:

The anticipated date for release of results is Monday, May 1, 2017.

I agree with favrefire4, likely April 28.

Yeah, just read that on the instructions you guys are probably right. My answer was based off the FAQ section on the Boards website. It's weird that they have a Monday release date for this test, but a Friday release date for July's test.

I sure hope we don't have to wait that weekend. I've been doimg fairly well in not thinking about it much, but I'm sure by that weekend I'll be refreshing the BLE page like 30 times a minute.

Is this your first time taking it?

[Leprechaun]

Is this your first time taking it?


Yes

[Estecontre]

Is this your first time taking it?


Yes

Even though this probably won't stop you from constantly refreshing the page, follow justice Willett on Twitter he gives warning before results are released. If you don't have twitter, like me, you can still visit his twitter feed on a Web page. Also, the board will also post an announcement giving an "official" release date. That's when it'll start to hit me.

[Leprechaun]

Is this your first time taking it?


Yes

Even though this probably won't stop you from constantly refreshing the page, follow justice Willett on Twitter he gives warning before results are released. If you don't have twitter, like me, you can still visit his twitter feed on a Web page. Also, the board will also post an announcement giving an "official" release date. That's when it'll start to hit me.

Awesome, thanks for the tip

[Leprechaun]

So who hacked the board of law examiners site and put up a pic of Tupac lol

[rhayra1]

So who hacked the board of law examiners site and put up a pic of Tupac lol

i just saw that!!! lmaoo

[haro]

Does the board send a notification of approval/denial for C&F? Is it an email, update on ATLAS?

[maztastic247]

Does the board send a notification of approval/denial for C&F? Is it an email, update on ATLAS?

For the July exam i was told, no news is good news... if they haven't contacted you regarding any issues by this point, you are likely fine. If you clear C&F you won't hear anything from the BLE. Unless they changed things up with the new atlas system, which I guess is possible, though not probable.

[chuckfin0808]

Does the board send a notification of approval/denial for C&F? Is it an email, update on ATLAS?

You won't get any type of notification if you are approved. However, if there is something missing for your C&F or there is a problem, you will receive a letter in the mail. I received a letter close to results time. TBLE was missing a form from a previous employer. By the time I called to figure out what was going on, my previous employer had already sent them what they needed and I was in the clear.

Make sure to keep your mailing address up to date and check your mail regularly. Don't stress about it until you actually get something in the mail. Even then it might be a minor issue that is easy to clear up.

[Hottexas]

Does someone understand well how the scores are calculated? I know that P&E is 10% MPT 10% MBE 40% and Essays 40% but does someone know how they handle us this score? Is there any specific grade on the essay on the scale from 0 to 6, for instance? How do they deliver these scores? I have never received any but I would like to have the help of those who had taken more than once and received those scores. I would appreciate any help on understanding the scores besides to know the Fail/Pass. Thanks in advance.

[BVest]

Does someone understand well how the scores are calculated? I know that P&E is 10% MPT 10% MBE 40% and Essays 40% but does someone know how they handle us this score? Is there any specific grade on the essay on the scale from 0 to 6, for instance? How do they deliver these scores? I have never received any but I would like to have the help of those who had taken more than once and received those scores. I would appreciate any help on understanding the scores besides to know the Fail/Pass. Thanks in advance.

Basically everything is based off the MBE percentiles and scaled score. So, for example, last February the MBE median was 136.4 (February is always lower because of the number of retakers, who tend to do worse on average than first-time takers). Each exam they standardize the scores to the two previous MBEs by using some questions that were given on those two previous exams. If this year's examinees do better on those questions, the MBE median will go up. Or vice versa. For the sake of argument let's say this year's examinees do the same as last February.

Now move along to the other parts: MPT is given a raw score of 0 to 6; P/E is scored at 5 raw points per answer for a potential 0 to 200 raw score; and essays are scored at 25 raw points each (but it doesn't really matter because of standardization); I think they may also standardize the essay raw scores before adding them together.

They then look at your raw scores for each section and see where it lines up in terms of percentiles. So let's assume that a 110 raw score on the P/E is the median. They'll then say, "Okay, this person was median on the P/E, and the corresponding median MBE scaled score is 136.4, so this person gets a 136.4 scaled score on their P/E." Or if the examinee's P/E score was 99th percentile, they'll say "well, 99th percentile on the MBE was a 185 scaled score [or whatever 99th %ile is], so this person got a 185 scaled PE score."

After they get all your scaled scores for the sections, they then add them up by taking 1/2 of yoru P/E and MPT scores and twice your Essay and MBE scores. For example, if you had a 120 P/E, 140 MPT, 135 MBE and 137 Essay:

120 * .5 = 60
140 * .5 = 70
135 * 2 = 270
137 * 2 = 274
------------
Total = 674

At this point, if it's 675 or higher, you pass. If it's less than 670, you fail. If it's 670 to 674, your essays get automatically regraded. During the automatic regrade, your score can only go up; it can't go down. The regrader does not know what the first grade was, but puts his/her own raw score down. If the regrade raw score is higher than the first raw score, they recalculate your total score using the new raw score; if the regrade raw is lower than your first raw score, your score remains the same. For this reason, very few people actually fail with a 670-674.

As for your score report, if you pass, you will get two pieces of data: 1) overall score; 2) MBE score (since some states will allow you to bring your MBE score in and not have to retake that part of the exam). If you fail, they'll tell your scaled scores and your percentiles for each section of the exam. You can request additional information as well, but only if you fail.

[Hottexas]

Does someone understand well how the scores are calculated? I know that P&E is 10% MPT 10% MBE 40% and Essays 40% but does someone know how they handle us this score? Is there any specific grade on the essay on the scale from 0 to 6, for instance? How do they deliver these scores? I have never received any but I would like to have the help of those who had taken more than once and received those scores. I would appreciate any help on understanding the scores besides to know the Fail/Pass. Thanks in advance.

Basically everything is based off the MBE percentiles and scaled score. So, for example, last February the MBE median was 136.4 (February is always lower because of the number of retakers, who tend to do worse on average than first-time takers). Each exam they standardize the scores to the two previous MBEs by using some questions that were given on those two previous exams. If this year's examinees do better on those questions, the MBE median will go up. Or vice versa. For the sake of argument let's say this year's examinees do the same as last February.

Now move along to the other parts: MPT is given a raw score of 0 to 6; P/E is scored at 5 raw points per answer for a potential 0 to 200 raw score; and essays are scored at 25 raw points each (but it doesn't really matter because of standardization); I think they may also standardize the essay raw scores before adding them together.

They then look at your raw scores for each section and see where it lines up in terms of percentiles. So let's assume that a 110 raw score on the P/E is the median. They'll then say, "Okay, this person was median on the P/E, and the corresponding median MBE scaled score is 136.4, so this person gets a 136.4 scaled score on their P/E." Or if the examinee's P/E score was 99th percentile, they'll say "well, 99th percentile on the MBE was a 185 scaled score [or whatever 99th %ile is], so this person got a 185 scaled PE score."

After they get all your scaled scores for the sections, they then add them up by taking 1/2 of yoru P/E and MPT scores and twice your Essay and MBE scores. For example, if you had a 120 P/E, 140 MPT, 135 MBE and 137 Essay:

120 * .5 = 60
140 * .5 = 70
135 * 2 = 270
137 * 2 = 274
------------
Total = 674

At this point, if it's 675 or higher, you pass. If it's less than 670, you fail. If it's 670 to 674, your essays get automatically regraded. During the automatic regrade, your score can only go up; it can't go down. The regrader does not know what the first grade was, but puts his/her own raw score down. If the regrade raw score is higher than the first raw score, they recalculate your total score using the new raw score; if the regrade raw is lower than your first raw score, your score remains the same. For this reason, very few people actually fail with a 670-674.

As for your score report, if you pass, you will get two pieces of data: 1) overall score; 2) MBE score (since some states will allow you to bring your MBE score in and not have to retake that part of the exam). If you fail, they'll tell your scaled scores and your percentiles for each section of the exam. You can request additional information as well, but only if you fail.

. Thank you Bvest for you answer. Some points, I need you to clarify, please. I didn't understand why you mentioned that February has a lower scaled score because of the number of many retakers. Is this usually common? I am not sure if I understood you well about the essays but each essay worths 25 points, correct? Will they give us the raw score for each essay and also the scaled score?

[Estecontre]

Thank you Bvest for you answer. Some points, I need you to clarify, please. I didn't understand why you mentioned that February has a lower scaled score because of the number of many retakers. Is this usually common? I am not sure if I understood you well about the essays but each essay worths 25 points, correct? Will they give us the raw score for each essay and also the scaled score?

The essay scoring is really weird. Initially they are worth 25 points each for a total point score of 300 (25*12=300) . However, they give it the same weighted score of the MBE which is 200 so they equalize the scores somehow to make it out of a scale of 200 and not 300. It's kinda hard to tell exactly how they do this but they do it. As for your last question, no they will not give you a raw score for each essay. They will let you know what your scaled score for the essays were as well as for every other portion (just like BVest broke it down to get a score of 674). Then they will break it down for you by percentile for each essay, for example it'll say you scored in 55 percentile for your Oil and Gas essay 25 percentile for a Will and Administration Essay and so on. They will also break it down like this for every other section, but it won't break it down specifically, for example it won't you scored in 50 percentile for question one on P/E it will just say what percentile you were generally.

[Hottexas]

Thank you Bvest for you answer. Some points, I need you to clarify, please. I didn't understand why you mentioned that February has a lower scaled score because of the number of many retakers. Is this usually common? I am not sure if I understood you well about the essays but each essay worths 25 points, correct? Will they give us the raw score for each essay and also the scaled score?

The essay scoring is really weird. Initially they are worth 25 points each for a total point score of 300 (25*12=300) . However, they give it the same weighted score of the MBE which is 200 so they equalize the scores somehow to make it out of a scale of 200 and not 300. It's kinda hard to tell exactly how they do this but they do it. As for your last question, no they will not give you a raw score for each essay. They will let you know what your scaled score for the essays were as well as for every other portion (just like BVest broke it down to get a score of 674). Then they will break it down for you by percentile for each essay, for example it'll say you scored in 55 percentile for your Oil and Gas essay 25 percentile for a Will and Administration Essay and so on. They will also break it down like this for every other section, but it won't break it down specifically, for example it won't you scored in 50 percentile for question one on P/E it will just say what percentile you were generally.

Interesting!!! Thank you for the info.

[BVest]

Yeah, for the essays, best I can tell they first scale/equate the questions to each other so that if the Question 1 grader is tough and ends up with a mean of 11 and standard deviation of 2, and the Question 2 grader has a mean of 16 but standard deviation of 4, you don't get screwed over because you did relatively well on one question vs the other. After that, they add those together to get some sort of intermediate scaled score for the entire essay section (it's not quite the raw score, but it's not the 200-point final scaled score either). Once they have all of the intermediate scaled score, they re-scale that to match the MBE distribution, yielding the final scaled score on the 200-point scale.

But since the P&E questions are not graded separately, they don't scale those separately (actually they do to an extent. They basically treat them like two essay questions -- Civil and Criminal -- and scale the raw total civil score and the raw total criminal score together before they place the joint scores on the MBE distribution, but that's a pretty minor step that's not likely to have much effect).

[Estecontre]

Thank you Bvest for you answer. Some points, I need you to clarify, please. I didn't understand why you mentioned that February has a lower scaled score because of the number of many retakers. Is this usually common? I am not sure if I understood you well about the essays but each essay worths 25 points, correct? Will they give us the raw score for each essay and also the scaled score?

The essay scoring is really weird. Initially they are worth 25 points each for a total point score of 300 (25*12=300) . However, they give it the same weighted score of the MBE which is 200 so they equalize the scores somehow to make it out of a scale of 200 and not 300. It's kinda hard to tell exactly how they do this but they do it. As for your last question, no they will not give you a raw score for each essay. They will let you know what your scaled score for the essays were as well as for every other portion (just like BVest broke it down to get a score of 674). Then they will break it down for you by percentile for each essay, for example it'll say you scored in 55 percentile for your Oil and Gas essay 25 percentile for a Will and Administration Essay and so on. They will also break it down like this for every other section, but it won't break it down specifically, for example it won't you scored in 50 percentile for question one on P/E it will just say what percentile you were generally.

Interesting!!! Thank you for the info.

You're welcome! I also forgot to mention that you only get this score breakdown if you fail. If you pass I believe you receive your scaled MBE score and your overall score.