Top Law Schools

nimbus cloud wrote:Is anyone on Aetna? Would you recommend it? I was going to stay on my parents' insurance but it doesn't seem like anyone accepts it in the area so seems like I should probably switch. I looked at the benefits summary and seems like none of the dental services are covered. Anything else I should know about? (pros/cons)

My husband and I elected to get the Aetna plan through UVA mainly because every other plan we found was way more expensive. It's been pretty good to us honestly. Dental isn't included but you can add it for like $320 or something for the year which we did.

Any 3L's or graduates have any last-minute OGI advice?

OtterLaw wrote:

nimbus cloud wrote:Is anyone on Aetna? Would you recommend it? I was going to stay on my parents' insurance but it doesn't seem like anyone accepts it in the area so seems like I should probably switch. I looked at the benefits summary and seems like none of the dental services are covered. Anything else I should know about? (pros/cons)

My husband and I elected to get the Aetna plan through UVA mainly because every other plan we found was way more expensive. It's been pretty good to us honestly. Dental isn't included but you can add it for like $320 or something for the year which we did.

I did Aetna while I was there. It was expensive, but from what I read, Virginia is just expensive generally and as the above poster said it was either relatively similarly priced to other plans or cheaper. Probably not an issue for you, but keep in mind that if you have kids they automatically get dental under the standard plan (thanks Obama).

thebrownnote wrote:Any 3L's or graduates have any last-minute OGI advice?

Just a rehash of what others have told you I'm sure, but I'll throw out some general advice.

Stay as calm as possible and do your own thing. If being around other people and talking about OGI stresses you out, feel no obligation to do so with your peers. Remember that interviews are generally less about showing how qualified you are (though this should be evident from resume & answers to specific questions) and more about trying to make the interviewer feel like you're the type of person they'd want to work with. In other words, don't take every little opportunity to talk yourself up unnaturally. Even if you hate interviews, remember that the time period generally passes much more quickly than you think it will and to try enjoying yourself.

thebrownnote wrote:Any 3L's or graduates have any last-minute OGI advice?

UVA 3L here!

Relax! I know you want to get all of your talking points in, but remember to act like a human being having a conversation. They already know you're smart and what your credentials are; now they want to know whether they could stomach working with you.

Ask questions! The more they talk, the less you have to. That said, think about what your questions say about you. If you ask about working from home or work/life balance, they may think you don't want to work hard.

Don't write off your lottery interviews. I have multiple friends who outkicked their coverage and ended up with V10 jobs, when based on grades and preselects that did not look like a possibility.

Schedule your callbacks immediately, and for as soon as possible. You want to still have your head in the game, and the earlier you get in the more slots there are.

Don't send thank you notes. The possibility of a typo that hurts your chances outweighs any minuscule positive impact they might have.

Remember that any dinners, etc. are still part of the interview. No matter how much they might protest otherwise.

Remember to eat. Don't drink so much coffee that you act like a twitching lunatic (that one may or may not be from personal experience).

Please feel free to reach out to me with any questions.

TasmanianToucan wrote:

thebrownnote wrote:Any 3L's or graduates have any last-minute OGI advice?

UVA 3L here!

Relax! I know you want to get all of your talking points in, but remember to act like a human being having a conversation. They already know you're smart and what your credentials are; now they want to know whether they could stomach working with you.

Ask questions! The more they talk, the less you have to. That said, think about what your questions say about you. If you ask about working from home or work/life balance, they may think you don't want to work hard.

Don't write off your lottery interviews. I have multiple friends who outkicked their coverage and ended up with V10 jobs, when based on grades and preselects that did not look like a possibility.

Schedule your callbacks immediately, and for as soon as possible. You want to still have your head in the game, and the earlier you get in the more slots there are.

Don't send thank you notes. The possibility of a typo that hurts your chances outweighs any minuscule positive impact they might have.

Remember that any dinners, etc. are still part of the interview. No matter how much they might protest otherwise.

Remember to eat. Don't drink so much coffee that you act like a twitching lunatic (that one may or may not be from personal experience).

Please feel free to reach out to me with any questions.

Recent grad here.

The above is all credited. I'll add that you should make a conscious effort to adapt to your interviewer's style. If your interviewer is having a conversation that has nothing to do with the law, don't try and turn it into a law-related conversation or weirdly try to sell yourself in the middle of a conversation about your interests. It's a natural instinct because it is, you know, an interview. But many of my best interviews had NOTHING to do with the law.

Also, lawyers love talking about themselves. Feign interest in their work.

Chillaxxx...it's not that bad. Try and have fun with it. And be confident!

Also, just accept now that there will be law firms that you "love" but won't get the callback. Doesn't mean you should not try your best, but this is a numbers game. It's just the way things shake out and you'll land at the place that works best for you. Students sometimes fall in love with certain firms, but outside very specialty boutique firms, that just doesn't really make sense at this stage in your career.

Is it worth spending the money to bring golf clubs, or will there most likely be no time to play golf 1L year anyway?

Law2020! wrote:Is it worth spending the money to bring golf clubs, or will there most likely be no time to play golf 1L year anyway?

Totally worth it. 1L isn't near as bad as everyone says it is. Yes you'll be very busy and stressed, but outside of finals (and a few weeks leading up to it) you'll have plenty of time for golf and other hobbies. Charlottesville also has some good courses that aren't too crazy expensive.

AZ123 wrote:

Law2020! wrote:Is it worth spending the money to bring golf clubs, or will there most likely be no time to play golf 1L year anyway?

Totally worth it. 1L isn't near as bad as everyone says it is. Yes you'll be very busy and stressed, but outside of finals (and a few weeks leading up to it) you'll have plenty of time for golf and other hobbies. Charlottesville also has some good courses that aren't too crazy expensive.

Totally this. Making the time to do things you enjoy with people you enjoy is the best way to stay happy and sane during 1L.

No question here - just wanted to wish all those participating in OGI this week the best of luck. I'm sure you'll be fending off offers with a stick in no time.

Hi all,

Any 2ls or 3ls have thoughts on:

Rutherglen for Civ Pro
Mahoney for Contracts
Fore for LR+W
Johnston for torts
Ferzan for Crim Law

Anxious-Undergrad wrote:Hi all,

Any 2ls or 3ls have thoughts on:

Rutherglen for Civ Pro
Mahoney for Contracts
Fore for LR+W
Johnston for torts
Ferzan for Crim Law

Rutherglen is a really nice guy, with a peculiar sense of humor that really clicked with me. However, I found his lecture style to be ponderous and I was mostly lost through the whole semester. But I was a crappy student, and everyone finds civ pro confusing, so whatever. You can evade his cold calls without too much embarrassment.

Paul Mahoney is a a fantastic lecturer, top 3 or so of all I had in law school. He will make it very clear what you should know. He recommends a supplement, can't remember what it's called, but it is very helpful, and I'd recommend reading it early in the semester to understand some of the fundamental themes he's getting at. Does old school no-notice cold-calls, but you only will get 1-2 per semester. As long as you read the case, you'll get through without embarrassment.

Ferzan is fierce, she's won a number of teaching awards.

Anxious-Undergrad wrote:Hi all,

Any 2ls or 3ls have thoughts on:

Rutherglen for Civ Pro
Mahoney for Contracts
Fore for LR+W
Johnston for torts
Ferzan for Crim Law

Others will disagree but I think Johnston is great. He will try to intimidate you and he will go on long tangents about irrelevant things. But if you take the class as an opportunity to enjoy his standup routine, you will not be disappointed––and you will learn a lot about common law reasoning. He is also very clear about what he expects from his students on the exam. Listen to what he says.

Anxious-Undergrad wrote:Hi all,

Any 2ls or 3ls have thoughts on:

Rutherglen for Civ Pro
Mahoney for Contracts
Fore for LR+W
Johnston for torts
Ferzan for Crim Law

Rutherglen is an odd duck, and we love him for it. The class will be extremely dry at times, punctuated by bouts of imitation-worthy phrasing and hand gestures. Go to his office hours once you're lost on the nuances of the Erie doctrine, which will always be on the exam. Scrounge up as many sample answers as you can from him- you can see exactly what details he allocates points to, which makes it easy to stand out on an otherwise straightforward subject.

I've heard bad things about Fore, but don't personally know. And it's pass-fail so don't worry.

Hey guys,

Any 2ls or 3ls have thoughts on:

Bamzai for Civ Pro
Hynes for Contracts
Armacost for torts
Jeffries for Crim Law

Thanks!

goatjd wrote:Hey guys,

Any 2ls or 3ls have thoughts on:

Bamzai for Civ Pro
Hynes for Contracts
Armacost for torts
Jeffries for Crim Law

Thanks!

Hynes and Jeffries are among the best loved at the school, you got a good draw.

goatjd wrote:Hey guys,

Any 2ls or 3ls have thoughts on:

Bamzai for Civ Pro
Hynes for Contracts
Armacost for torts
Jeffries for Crim Law

Thanks!

You're going to love and fear Jeffries simultaneously when the semester starts. Embrace it, because the man is brilliant and can teach a topic with such precision that his class predictably ends right on the minute it's scheduled to end, even allowing for random student questions. There's a reason he is one of the brightest graduates of UVA there has ever been, and he's also entirely approachable with questions.

Hynes is undoubtedly a really nice guy, and you should get lunch with him when you get the chance, but some friends complained of feeling disoriented by his teaching style. It all comes out in the wash of the forced curve, but there were times people came away from class more confused by the material than they were coming into the class. But he's also incredibly fair, which you should value heavily.

Any advice/thoughts on:

Contracts with Geis
Torts with Abraham
Crim law with Ferzan
Civ Pro with Heytens
LR & W with Ware

And then for next semester, might as well ask now about:

Const Law with Matthew
Property with Stephan

Thanks all!

Golfer691 wrote:Any advice/thoughts on:

Contracts with Geis
Torts with Abraham
Crim law with Ferzan
Civ Pro with Heytens
LR & W with Ware

And then for next semester, might as well ask now about:

Const Law with Matthew
Property with Stephan

Thanks all!

Don't worry about Spring Semester now. And a discussion on Ferzan previously should help with that. I'll just speak to Geis, who is one of the most energetic, engaging professors at UVA. You'd be hard-pressed to find students/alumni who don't wax poetic about the man. If he didn't have gray hair, you'd think he was 25 and way smarter than the rest of us. You'll love that classroom experience.

For Ware, she'll be handling a pretty substantial course load within LRW, but she's really on point in teaching the class, and more importantly, she's mindful of your time in completing LRW while realizing it's an ungraded class. She's a genuinely nice person who can teach you a lot about legal research.

UVA2B wrote:

Golfer691 wrote:Any advice/thoughts on:

Contracts with Geis
Torts with Abraham
Crim law with Ferzan
Civ Pro with Heytens
LR & W with Ware

And then for next semester, might as well ask now about:

Const Law with Matthew
Property with Stephan

Thanks all!

Don't worry about Spring Semester now. And a discussion on Ferzan previously should help with that. I'll just speak to Geis, who is one of the most energetic, engaging professors at UVA. You'd be hard-pressed to find students/alumni who don't wax poetic about the man. If he didn't have gray hair, you'd think he was 25 and way smarter than the rest of us. You'll love that classroom experience.

For Ware, she'll be handling a pretty substantial course load within LRW, but she's really on point in teaching the class, and more importantly, she's mindful of your time in completing LRW while realizing it's an ungraded class. She's a genuinely nice person who can teach you a lot about legal research.

Yeah saw that on Ferzan was just wondering if there was any more that could be said but thanks, very helpful!

*

Ferzan is one of the best profs at the school. I had her first year for crim and for evidence and both were two of the most rewarding classes I had while at UVA. She is very passionate about crim and it will definitely come through in the classroom. She is also very passionate about teaching and wants her students to succeed so take her up on it, ask questions and go see her in office hours.

All that said, she is tough so expect to work hard and learn a lot. I always felt that her class felt like I was taking and additional credit hour (crim felt like 4 credit hours instead of 3, evidence felt like 5 instead of 4). This was mostly a function of the reading load and knowing I had to be prepared for class.

Other things off the top of my head:

She definitely cold calls in all of her classes.
She expects you to be prepared for class and will call you out if your habitually unprepared.
She is very FAIR and won't try to hide the ball.
She will give you a full practice exam half way through the semester and then take up to 2 classes going through the exam in detail (this is HUGE, and I cannot emphasize enough how helpful this will be not only in her class but also your other classes as most profs don't take the time to review exams in class)
Her crim class was pretty heavy of policy and theory so be ready for that.

I just read what I posted above and realize that it might sound scary. Please try not to be intimidated. All law school classes 1L year are "hard" because most of the time you don't know what your doing and are just spinning your wheels. Take heart in the fact that everyone is in the same boat and know that you will be learning from one of the best profs at the school!

PS. She will reccomend Dresslers supplement. It is great. If your sick of reading Dressler also has and audio supplement that I highly recommend. It's nice to have a break from reading and I used it heavily during the semester.

I'll join in on the fray here..

Collins for CivPro
Verkerke for contracts
Bonnie for Crim
Armacoast for torts
Fore for LRW

I did not have Armacost for torts but I had her for another upper level class. I really liked her, and thought she did a great job presenting the material in a clear and concise manner. She was also really helpful outside of class in office hours.

Someone may be able to comment more specifically about having her in torts. I remember someone telling me that she gave a typing race final exam (which is not unusual for torts), and that definitely held true in the class I had with her.

Edit

Fore was fine, he came in half way through my 1L year and took over for Ware who was leaving on maternity leave so I only had him for second semester. I never had any issues with him but can't say I really liked him for any specific reason.

I do remember that he had really high expectations when he first arrived, and once told our class that he was disappointed with our briefs at one point. As you will see, LRW can be a HUGE time suck and after a few weeks a lot of people quickly realize that all they need to do is pass and will take it pretty easy (especially by second semester). Fore has been around for three years now so my guess is that he has, begrudgingly, adjusted his expectations... but thats just a guess.

Armacost torts is great

Absolutely wonderful person. Try to get lunch with her.

She will expect you to remember specific lines of text on cold calls, but no one will judge or care as long as you clearly did the reading (this includes her). She jumps around/goes down rows. So don't try and predict where she'll go -- just do the Reading. Read the notes after the cases. They are useful.

Very clear lecturer
Lots of practice exams (it's a horse race. Longest exam I wrote as a 1L in law school by at least a few pages. But just general fact patterns judging by the practices. No tricks or curveballs.)

If you have her at 830 she'll let you have a bathroom break in the middle of class. Truly nice and great prof all around. No laptops tho( if I remember right ). And torts is a lot, so prepare to write a lot.