UVA Law Students Taking Questions Forum

[Pearalegal]

haha,..haters.

Oh I have another question,...I applied and was accepted ED. Does that mean I have no shot at financial aid? Don't think I can go to law school without some kind of aid.

Well then applying early was a really smart and well thought out decision, wasn't it?

You mean merit aid right? Because you're fine for loans and the like.

[moose]

haha,..haters.

Oh I have another question,...I applied and was accepted ED. Does that mean I have no shot at financial aid? Don't think I can go to law school without some kind of aid.

Well then applying early was a really smart and well thought out decision, wasn't it?

You mean merit aid right? Because you're fine for loans and the like.

No need to be an a$$.

[Pearalegal]

haha,..haters.

Oh I have another question,...I applied and was accepted ED. Does that mean I have no shot at financial aid? Don't think I can go to law school without some kind of aid.

Well then applying early was a really smart and well thought out decision, wasn't it?

You mean merit aid right? Because you're fine for loans and the like.

No need to be an a$$.

I wasn't, but theres no need not to think out admissions decisions very, very carefully.

I also gave you an answer...for financial aid, you're obviously still on the same level as everyone else with loans and won't have any trouble. If you're looking for merit money and wasn't awarded any, you should probably get in touch with UVA.

[moose]

haha,..haters.

Oh I have another question,...I applied and was accepted ED. Does that mean I have no shot at financial aid? Don't think I can go to law school without some kind of aid.

Well then applying early was a really smart and well thought out decision, wasn't it?

You mean merit aid right? Because you're fine for loans and the like.

No need to be an a$$.

I wasn't, but theres no need not to think out admissions decisions very, very carefully.

I also gave you an answer...for financial aid, you're obviously still on the same level as everyone else with loans and won't have any trouble. If you're looking for merit money and wasn't awarded any, you should probably get in touch with UVA.

Because of some personal financial considerations I can't rely on loans on the same level as the average incoming student. As for applying ED at UVA,..UVA was my high reach. I figured what the hell,..get in to such a good school and worry about the particulars later. Honestly,..I'm not sure if Im going to law school,..the financial situation has to be right for me. I'm very averse to debt and don't want to be a corporate slave for the next ten years. But when you get into a top 10 like UVA,..obviously it deserves to be thought about.

[Pearalegal]

Because of some personal financial considerations I can't rely on loans on the same level as the average incoming student. As far applying ED at UVA,..UVA was my high reach. I figured what the hell,..get in to such a good school and worry about the particulars later. Honestly,..I'm not sure if Im going to law school,..the financial situation has to be right for me. I'm very averse to debt and don't want to be a corporate slave for the next ten years. But when you get into a top 10 like UVA,..obviously it deserves to be thought about.

Well then I believe you're stuck with the amount of merit aid you were awarded at acceptance. Its hard to bargain when you are locked into UVA and cannot attend any others next year as a result. Call up the office, talk to someone about your situation.

[missvik218]

Because of some personal financial considerations I can't rely on loans on the same level as the average incoming student. As far applying ED at UVA,..UVA was my high reach. I figured what the hell,..get in to such a good school and worry about the particulars later. Honestly,..I'm not sure if Im going to law school,..the financial situation has to be right for me. I'm very averse to debt and don't want to be a corporate slave for the next ten years. But when you get into a top 10 like UVA,..obviously it deserves to be thought about.

Well then I believe you're stuck with the amount of merit aid you were awarded at acceptance. Its hard to bargain when you are locked into UVA and cannot attend any others next year as a result. Call up the office, talk to someone about your situation.

This is exactly the reason I'm agonizing over applying ED to UVA, it's my best chance at getting into a T14 PLUS it's like my dream school ... but I just don't know if I can swing paying for law school with no chance of a merit scholarship, which I will not get from UVA, but could very possibly be rewarded handsomely with from a T50 in the region I'd like to practice ... UGH!!!!

[missvik218]

ALSO -- It may be too early to tell, but what sort of sense are you getting from 2L and 3Ls about their job placement and ability to get callbacks, etc?

How Socratic are your professors, what is the classroom atmosphere like?

[vanwinkle]

This is exactly the reason I'm agonizing over applying ED to UVA, it's my best chance at getting into a T14 PLUS it's like my dream school ... but I just don't know if I can swing paying for law school with no chance of a merit scholarship, which I will not get from UVA, but could very possibly be rewarded handsomely with from a T50 in the region I'd like to practice ... UGH!!!!

Don't confuse the previous poster not getting a scholarship with you not having a chance at a scholarship. If you apply at ED at UVA, they do not take that into consideration when awarding merit aid. If your numbers are solid or you make a good case they will give you merit aid. Dean Trujillo discussed this in his TLS interview (which you should read if you haven't) and I've heard from at least one student that applied ED and got offered merit aid.

The trick about ED at UVA is that you can't back out if you don't get aid, not that you won't.

[kurama20]

The facilities are nice. I am disappointed that the law school is one of the few buildings without the Jeffersonian architecture, but it is still a nice building. Honestly, the only "worn-down" aspect I've noticed is the carpet in a couple areas, but other than that, everything looks great.

I get the impression that this must be a pretty great law school if we're collectively down to bitching about the copiers and the carpeting.

Seriously though, if the carpet is peeling in places, they should repalce it! Ugh...

Nothing to really bitch about until we get no-offered.

Yes, but that's a problem at every non-HYS school, not UVA specifically.

People say this like it's a fact but really do we know whether or not no one at HYS got no offered this year, or are we just saying that based on our rankings obsessions? I'm having a hard time believing that people at Columbia are in dire straights but suddenly when you switch to Stanford everyone is landing 160K firm jobs with ease. At that level the distinctions between schools are not that cut and dry.

Anyway how boring is Charlottesville? Really,if it's the weekend and you don't need to study will you be bored if you are not into getting wasted?

[vanwinkle]

ALSO -- It may be too early to tell, but what sort of sense are you getting from 2L and 3Ls about their job placement and ability to get callbacks, etc?

How Socratic are your professors, what is the classroom atmosphere like?

The sense that I'm getting right now is chaos. I overheard someone in the career services area telling an upper-level student they were sure the student would've gotten more offers in a better year. Nobody is able to really predict what's going to end up happening to a lot of these kids or whether it'll still be like that by the time the Class of 2013 is job-hunting.

I only know a few 3Ls personally. A couple got several callbacks, a couple got none. I don't know them well enough to tell you exactly why, it's not like people walk around wearing their GPA and resume on their shirts or anything. I really wish I knew more, since I'm going to be up for interviews in a year myself.

Regarding professors... For the core classes I've got two that cold-call and two that don't. The ones that do, I would say definitely are very Socratic, they use cold-calling to push kids to reason through a case and different variations of it like you heard law school is like. One of my profs likes to use cold-calls to ask kids about random pop-culture trivia which he then works into one of his example stories, and it can be kind of frustrating or confusing because he's asking you stuff that has nothing to do with the case or the law.

One of the profs that doesn't cold-call just uses volunteers when he asks questions, and goes on and explains the answer himself if nobody volunteers it. So it's kind of semi-Socratic, if nobody wants to participate it'd just turn into a lecture, but usually there's at least someone in class trying to answer.

They all have their strengths, and I love having a really energetic and fired-up professor for my 8:30AM class. If that prof were dry and boring I'd probably be falling asleep or missing classes by now. Later in the day it doesn't matter so much so it's not bad if a professor isn't that great. And, of course, what people consider "great" varies a little; I think everyone loves that 8:30 prof, but we're really more split about a couple of our other profs.

The classroom atmosphere really depends on the class and the professor. Each section has one "small section" class which is just their 30 kids and no other sections, and then the remaining core classes are in large classrooms bundled with other sections. For our section, we have Civ Pro as our "small section", Crim Law with one other section, and Contracts and Torts with two other sections. Being such a smaller classroom and only with your own section, I think there's a lot more open discussion in Civ Pro, and the prof gets to know everyone in there a lot quicker. The larger classes feel more like standard lecture classes, with 60 or 90 kids piled in and the professor possibly having a vague idea who you are a month in if you've already stuck your hand up or been cold-called.

The answers you get are going to vary somewhat, because the professors are all different and some folks in other sections have completely different sets of professors for every class. I know there's a couple TLS posters who share one class with me but they have different profs for all the others. But the general format is going to be the same, one 30-person class and then three larger 60 or 90 person classes. So you're going to have that one class where everyone knows each other and then those huge lecture hall feeling classes (plus LRW, which everyone has).

[RVP11]

Dean Trujillo's awesome, but I call BS on ED people not being considered any differently for distribution of merit aid. It has to have some impact.


Also, my take on OGI from the few 2Ls I've talked to about this:

Law Review = cleaning up, just like before

Top 25% = most still seem to be getting callbacks/offers, with a few exceptions

Medianish = hit and miss

Much below median = BigLaw not happening for the 2011s, probably

I imagine the folks around median will do better in 2012. I get the feeling that a lot of my classmates have backup plans, and few are under any illusions that they have a NYC/DC/160k job just waiting for them. I mean no disrespect to the 2011s, but they justifiably came in with different expectations and fewer thoughts of what Plan B was. Rather than gunning their hearts out in response to ITE, it seems like a lot of 2012s are thinking about public interest and government work as a Plan B, or even as a Plan A.

[RVP11]

ALSO -- It may be too early to tell, but what sort of sense are you getting from 2L and 3Ls about their job placement and ability to get callbacks, etc?

How Socratic are your professors, what is the classroom atmosphere like?

My professors vary in their adherence Socratic method, but they all cold call.

Contracts: cold calls ~5 people by row, others can chime in but often don't, his cold calls are first very fact based, then runs through hypos with you

CrimLaw: sometimes calls on 1 person the whole class, sometimes calls on 5+ in a row. Sometimes just takes volunteers. A few days ago, he took one volunteer then proceeded to call on the guy's whole row. Gunner punishment?

Torts: calls on 1 person per case discussed, and it's almost entirely fact/procedure/reasoning based

CivPro: tends to call by row, but may call as many as 6 or as few as 0 in any given class period, seems to prefer just to lecture when the case gets really hairy

Class atmosphere is generally extremely positive. None of my profs are harsh cold-callers, most are lobbing softball questions, or are asking tough questions they don't necessarily expect you to answer with much clarity - they're using what they can get out of you to launch into what the REAL answer or explanation is. Chances are, if you've read the case and given it any thought, you're not going to be embarrassed. Even if you do fall flat on your face, no one cares. People vary in their cold call ability, and apparently it has very little correlation with how smart they actually are, how well they actually know the law, or the grades they'll eventually receive. So no worries.

[YCrevolution]

..

[Kohinoor]

ALSO -- It may be too early to tell, but what sort of sense are you getting from 2L and 3Ls about their job placement and ability to get callbacks, etc?

How Socratic are your professors, what is the classroom atmosphere like?

People with good credentials are striking out at OCI, but it does seem that a decent number of those people will some luck with midlaw and government from what I've heard so far.

Totally depends. Everyone is definitely more attentive and present than in undergrad. Socratic method is present in every class but is so varied that it can't even be called the Socratic method in some classes. Where it is utillized well, there is a kinetic energy to the lecture because everyone comes to class prepared, and pays full attention the entire time. It's kind of easy to be a gunner since, to be a gunner, you really only need to raise your hand twice a class and there's no reason not to if you did the reading. When your law professor is the MAN, you want him to say your name and validate your existence.

[Kohinoor]

Oh, unrelated to anything asked, disclose whatever you need to disclose before you get here and it becomes a matter that might potentially go before the Honor Board which is essentially a death squad for liars.

[Apple Tree]

How big is your class? Are your classmates worried about this job market? Do you think people are studying harder because of the increased competitiveness?

[lawlover829]

This is exactly the reason I'm agonizing over applying ED to UVA, it's my best chance at getting into a T14 PLUS it's like my dream school ... but I just don't know if I can swing paying for law school with no chance of a merit scholarship, which I will not get from UVA, but could very possibly be rewarded handsomely with from a T50 in the region I'd like to practice ... UGH!!!!

Don't confuse the previous poster not getting a scholarship with you not having a chance at a scholarship. If you apply at ED at UVA, they do not take that into consideration when awarding merit aid. If your numbers are solid or you make a good case they will give you merit aid. Dean Trujillo discussed this in his TLS interview (which you should read if you haven't) and I've heard from at least one student that applied ED and got offered merit aid.

The trick about ED at UVA is that you can't back out if you don't get aid, not that you won't.

I got $$ this year at UVA. So what dean T said was true.

[YCrevolution]

..

[Wahoo1L]

How big is your class? Are your classmates worried about this job market? Do you think people are studying harder because of the increased competitiveness?

As a 2L, the 1L class seems to be studying ridiculously hard. On the infrequent occasion that I go to the library on a Saturday, it seems surprisingly full and usually the TV room is taken. However, in this economy, you would be a fool to [strike]go to law school[/strike] not be gunning. That being said, I'm sure this is true for most schools given the economy.

[Wahoo1L]

ALSO -- It may be too early to tell, but what sort of sense are you getting from 2L and 3Ls about their job placement and ability to get callbacks, etc?

The job market is bad. Some people are doing fine; however, there is a very real possibility that with only average interview skills and top quarter grades you will wind up with very few, if any, callbacks. This problem is not unique to Virginia, and it appears that median at CCN is also having a difficult time based on Auto Admit. During a decent number of my callbacks, the interviewers casually expressed how bad they felt for our class and how the model had to change.

[articulably suspect]

I will be 26 when I apply and 27 during 1L. How do "older" students like the atmosphere there? It seems like there's more of a college atmosphere compared to other law schools.

[vanwinkle]

I will be 26 when I apply and 27 during 1L. How do "older" students like the atmosphere there? It seems like there's more of a college atmosphere compared to other law schools.

I'm 28, and I'm enjoying it so far. There is definitely that college atmosphere, but honestly you can choose your own level of acceptance. You can play on the softball team, go out drinking with your classmates, or whatever else is going on, or you can go spend the time in the library studying instead. It really depends on you and what you want, and people don't give you a hard time for not doing something. It's still a very professional and prestigious law school at its core, the fact that it can be more relaxed just makes it a little more comfortable.

[articulably suspect]

I will be 26 when I apply and 27 during 1L. How do "older" students like the atmosphere there? It seems like there's more of a college atmosphere compared to other law schools.

I'm 28, and I'm enjoying it so far. There is definitely that college atmosphere, but honestly you can choose your own level of acceptance. You can play on the softball team, go out drinking with your classmates, or whatever else is going on, or you can go spend the time in the library studying instead. It really depends on you and what you want, and people don't give you a hard time for not doing something. It's still a very professional and prestigious law school at its core, the fact that it can be more relaxed just makes it a little more comfortable.

So in other words, you don't feel "old" compared to other ls students and the surrounding environment? That's good to know, for some reason I've begun worrying about this.

[dailygrind]

I think I'm going to be in town taking a look around tomorrow, and I was hoping to sit in on a class. The available classes are:

Contracts at 8:50 with Geis or Verkerke, and
Crim Law at 10 with Coughlin or Bowers.

I'd slightly prefer Crim because it gives me an additional hour of sleep (before you call me lazy, I'm driving in from a good bit away), but hey, what's an hour one way or another?

Which class would be, in your opinion, the most representative class to sit in on? Or if there's no good answer to that question, which class would be the best to sit in on?

Thanks in advance.

[vanwinkle]

I think I'm going to be in town taking a look around tomorrow, and I was hoping to sit in on a class. The available classes are:

Contracts at 8:50 with Geis or Verkerke, and
Crim Law at 10 with Coughlin or Bowers.

I'd slightly prefer Crim because it gives me an additional hour of sleep (before you call me lazy, I'm driving in from a good bit away), but hey, what's an hour one way or another?

Which class would be, in your opinion, the most representative class to sit in on? Or if there's no good answer to that question, which class would be the best to sit in on?

Thanks in advance.

Geis is at 8:30, not 8:50. I can assure you of that.

With that said, Geis and Coughlin are both really awesome professors to witness in action. I don't have Coughlin, but she did a mock class for us during ASW last spring, and she was incredibly hyper and exciting through the whole thing. Geis also brings energy to his classes, which really helps when you have to be awake at 8:30 in the morning!

I'd recommend both Geis and Coughlin if you can swing it, they're consecutive classes so it should be possible. Otherwise, pick one. I'm assuming you'd pick Coughlin since it's later, but it'd be your loss if you missed Geis, he's an incredible teacher.