Hill staffer/policy staffer in DC; UVA alum - AMA Forum

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Go Nats!

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Hill staffer/policy staffer in DC; UVA alum - AMA

Post by Go Nats! » Sun Nov 25, 2018 10:05 pm

Class of 2013 UVA Alum here in DC. I started as a Hill staffer right out of law school and now I'm making very good money in the thinktank world. TLS is heavily big law so I wanted to give some insight into the public sector. if you have questions about getting into thinktanks or the Hill, let me know.

Unlike law firms, there's no real pipeline for Hill positions. There are so many variables you can't control - when will a position be open? How can you make sure that someone is going to vouch for you when it does become available? Who do you need to know? (Hint: Everyone) - that it can be both disorienting. The key is to favorably position yourself as much as possible and not to give up.

1. If your school offers you public interest fellowship, take it: I owe my career to the public interest fellowship that UVA started in the years following the 2008 crash. My fellowship lasted for a year but I had two job offers on the Hill after four months. There's a constant churn of staff on the Hill - people leave to go back to their home state, leave for thinktank world, or head to K street - so part of the game is just being there when an opportunity opens up. The goal here is breaking through the invisible primary. You gotta be that guy or gal who someone thinks of when they learn a position is open. They know your work. They know you're good at what you do. So they'll stick up for you.

2. Know someone: Once I had my fellowship locked in, I got my internship by talking to people on Facebook who worked on the Hill. I asked them if their office had a position open or an internship. And then I locked it in. Contact anyone you can think of with a connection there. Contact alumni on the Hill. Network at Fed Soc or thinktanks or whatever. If you don't know anyone, take the time to e-mail the office or, heck, just drop by there and ask how you could apply. You have to be proactive and you have to be fearless without being annoying or pestering.

3. Be humble: Not sure if it's true, but I've been told of the Harvard law grad who had to start as a staff assistant - taking phone calls, doing mail, etc. Chris Matthews was Chief of Staff to Tip O'Neill but that dude used to just handle mail when he first started working on the Hill. Basically, anyone who wants to work on the Hill, especially if they have no previous Hill experience - law degree or no - needs to be willing to take their lumps unless you know somebody. I did it and I was rewarded with substantive work afterwards. If you're an established lawyer, be willing to take a stipend and do some work to test it out. I've seen lawyers do that but I totally understand why some lawyers would be unwilling. These positions are so prized that there's rarely a reason to take a chance on someone who is untested in congressional work.

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Re: Hill staffer/policy staffer in DC; UVA alum - AMA

Post by PiersonvPostMalone » Sun Nov 25, 2018 10:55 pm

Thanks for taking questions!

How did you make the transition to a think tank? Were you approached by someone or was it just something you wanted to do and decided to pursue after working on the Hill?

What kind of experience makes someone attractive to a think tank? Were you actively publishing or do you think your job on the Hill was the key?

Go Nats!

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Re: Hill staffer/policy staffer in DC; UVA alum - AMA

Post by Go Nats! » Mon Nov 26, 2018 12:17 am

People knew I did good work and reached out to me about the opportunity. DC's a small place, once a few folks heard I was thinking about leaving the Hill I started to get contacted.

My job on the Hill and knowledge of policy was key along with my connections. I had one publication to my name prior to this and a few op-eds and other matters too.

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Re: Hill staffer/policy staffer in DC; UVA alum - AMA

Post by Veil of Ignorance » Mon Nov 26, 2018 12:39 pm

Do you think it would be possible to go the thinktank route after a few years of biglaw? Is there an intermediary step needed?

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Re: Hill staffer/policy staffer in DC; UVA alum - AMA

Post by Veil of Ignorance » Mon Nov 26, 2018 12:40 pm

Also by good money do you mean 100k? Working at a thinktank would be COOL but DC is EXPENSIVE.

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Go Nats!

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Re: Hill staffer/policy staffer in DC; UVA alum - AMA

Post by Go Nats! » Mon Nov 26, 2018 2:27 pm

Yes, to every question but the second one. The problem is that if you're in biglaw you probably haven't had the time to cultivate a network in the thinktank world. But look at people at, for instance the Brennan Center for Justice (I don't work there), a number of their policy people were in biglaw or public interest first before they hired there. As long as you can sell yourself as knowledgeable in a policy area you have a shot.

DC is expensive but you absolutely do not need a six figure salary to live comfortably here. I certainly was not making that when I was on the Hill.

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Re: Hill staffer/policy staffer in DC; UVA alum - AMA

Post by Veil of Ignorance » Mon Nov 26, 2018 3:44 pm

Go Nats! wrote:Yes, to every question but the second one. The problem is that if you're in biglaw you probably haven't had the time to cultivate a network in the thinktank world. But look at people at, for instance the Brennan Center for Justice (I don't work there), a number of their policy people were in biglaw or public interest first before they hired there. As long as you can sell yourself as knowledgeable in a policy area you have a shot.

DC is expensive but you absolutely do not need a six figure salary to live comfortably here. I certainly was not making that when I was on the Hill.
Thanks for the info. I live in SF, so my idea of a good salary is pretty warped. Things are rough when a 1-bedroom costs 3500/month. Good to know DC is better.

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Re: Hill staffer/policy staffer in DC; UVA alum - AMA

Post by Tommiahipp » Mon Nov 26, 2018 4:18 pm

Did you know going into law school that you wanted to end up back in the politics realm? Did you take interdisciplinary classes accordingly, or would that even matter?

Does the JD do for you anything that an MA from a similarly prestigious school wouldn't be able to do? Mobility, ease of landing a gig, etc.

Great thread topic, thanks for doing it.

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Re: Hill staffer/policy staffer in DC; UVA alum - AMA

Post by Go Nats! » Mon Nov 26, 2018 11:56 pm

Your question makes me remember that I should've been clearer about my background: I was K-JD. I had no previous political experience beyond knocking on doors for a State Senate campaign back home and doing phone calls for a state AG race in Virginia. I didn't even put it on my resume.

No, I had no idea I wanted to go into the political realm. If it was gonna happen, I thought it would be much later in career - specifically, I thought I'd run for something back home. That's impossible now that I'm stuck in DC for a lot of reasons.

I did not take classes with the goal of appealing to the Hill and I'm unsure there are any that would actually apply to that. I was lucky though, I took Presidential Powers (with Prakash, whom I recommend for any UVA people reading this), Election Law, Intelligence Law and I *think* there was a Legislation course I took but I'm not 100 percent on that. The Senator I worked for cared a lot about intelligence issues and I wrote a paper for that class that fit right with his views. So I was lucky. But my classes were not the deciding factor for me getting hired.

Regarding the JD, the JD was necessary for the position I took. I would've never been hired for it if I didn't have that specific credential. You didn't ask this but I want to be clear to everyone:You should never go to law school to make yourself more marketable on the Hill. If you know the Hill is where you want to be, go there. Start as an intern or a staff assistant. Network. In the three years it would take you to gain a law degree you could gain enough experience and credibility in an office to get a policy position. Some people go part time once they're on the Hill and established. I think that makes sense - a college degree will only get you so far.

I agree with people that you should never go to law school to do anything other than be a lawyer. However, it's absolutely true that a law degree opens other doors, especially if you go to a prestigious one like UVA. I've never practiced law beyond a few pro bono cases I do every year, but each job I've been in so far has seen that degree and that school and taken it as a given that I know what I'm talking about when it comes to legal issues. I've relied on that to a healthy degree too. I suspect an MA in another topic could help with that, but those can be more narrowly tailored than a JD and thus possibly less helpful on the mobility front.

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Re: Hill staffer/policy staffer in DC; UVA alum - AMA

Post by jackdanielsga » Sun Dec 02, 2018 11:12 pm

Thank you for the great insight. Sincerely appreciate the willingness to share!

1) What's the day-to-day work like now and on the Hill?


2)
Go Nats! wrote: You have to be proactive and you have to be fearless without being annoying or pestering.
I know this may seem a very basic question, however, it's been a huge challenge for me my whole life. Most people I ask for help are either naturally good at this (or were taught by their naturally good parents) and so they say stupid things like "Just be yourself". How do you walk the fine line between being forgotten and being annoying?

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Re: Hill staffer/policy staffer in DC; UVA alum - AMA

Post by Go Nats! » Mon Dec 03, 2018 11:37 am

jackdanielsga wrote:Thank you for the great insight. Sincerely appreciate the willingness to share!

1) What's the day-to-day work like now and on the Hill?
On the Hill, every day was different which was why I loved it. The day was mostly focused on analyzing new legislation in my portfolio, developing legislation that my boss had tasked me to do, contacting experts and thinktanks for assistance in the drafting of that legislation, and contacting other offices for potential support of our legislation. People complain about having to contact constituents but also had to do that and I frankly loved it. What was great is that you could have your whole day planned out but some big media splash could happen or the President could say something that scuttles it completely and you have to react to that. Some people are annoyed by that kind of swift change but I was thrilled by it. It kept me on my toes.

I mean, I *was* thrilled by it. The problem after a few years, especially if you're not on a House or Senate committee staffer is that you realize that you're mostly just reacting to things instead of having the time to carefully, thoughtfully develop legislation. Or when you do come up with legislation you're chasing the "shiny objects" and headlines instead of things that would really shape policy for the better. That's why I left to do policy on the outside, so I could hone my policy craft a bit. And at a thinktank, that's really all you're doing. But I'll go back to the Hill one day. There's just no place like it.
I know this may seem a very basic question, however, it's been a huge challenge for me my whole life. Most people I ask for help are either naturally good at this (or were taught by their naturally good parents) and so they say stupid things like "Just be yourself". How do you walk the fine line between being forgotten and being annoying?
What annoyed me the most when people were trying to network with me is when they would contact me constantly. I had one kid e-mail me like every week. Don't do that. Networking is mostly just about being friendly, assertive, and respectful of people's time. Think before you send an e-mail about how the other person who's receiving would take it.

If you're asking for practical advice, here's an example of what I did to get my first job: I knew a friend who was working on the Hill. I e-mailed him asking him for advice and whether he had any info about job openings. He didn't respond. I gave him two weeks. I e-mailed him again just "checking in" and asking if he could spare the time to grab a coffee and talk about job stuff. He did and we discussed the potential for me to be working in his office. And the whole time this was happening I was contacting about 5 to ten other people in the same manner so I had other options.

Networking feels weird mostly because it's such a fake ritual: you're buddying up to people so you can get something in return for them. But I swear, you can do it effectively if you put the time and if you maintain your contacts. If someone doesn't respond after a few tries, don't worry about it, just move on.

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Re: Hill staffer/policy staffer in DC; UVA alum - AMA

Post by jackdanielsga » Tue Dec 04, 2018 7:41 pm

Thank you, this is awesome info.

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