Is the big law experience different for people who were poor before law school? Forum
-
- Posts: 170
- Joined: Tue Apr 11, 2017 12:34 am
Re: Is the big law experience different for people who were poor before law school?
Making 195k will certainly relieve money pressure, but baseline is relevant too right? Because it's not a comparison between 195k biglaw salary and pre-law school salary. It's a comparison between 195k biglaw and (hypothetically) 60k PI salary. 195k is far far better than 20k, but how much better is 195k than 60k? Especially after factoring in higher taxes on the 195k, and not having to service debt because of LRAP/PSLF?
Everyone is different, obviously. But for me at least, making (hypothetically) 60k and not having to worry about debt will put me in a much more stable financial position than I was pre-law school. The additional marginal benefit of 195k over 60k wasn't worth the costs to QOL. (For me at least; as I said, to each their own. I have friends who have families to support; of course the calculus would be far different)
Everyone is different, obviously. But for me at least, making (hypothetically) 60k and not having to worry about debt will put me in a much more stable financial position than I was pre-law school. The additional marginal benefit of 195k over 60k wasn't worth the costs to QOL. (For me at least; as I said, to each their own. I have friends who have families to support; of course the calculus would be far different)
-
- Posts: 31195
- Joined: Sat Feb 01, 2014 12:23 pm
Re: Is the big law experience different for people who were poor before law school?
This is basically my position too. 65k and no worries about student loans due to LRAP/PSLF. It's a dream combo and allows me to help out my family too.ernie wrote:Making 195k will certainly relieve money pressure, but baseline is relevant too right? Because it's not a comparison between 195k biglaw salary and pre-law school salary. It's a comparison between 195k biglaw and (hypothetically) 60k PI salary. 195k is far far better than 20k, but how much better is 195k than 60k? Especially after factoring in higher taxes on the 195k, and not having to service debt because of LRAP/PSLF?
Everyone is different, obviously. But for me at least, making (hypothetically) 60k and not having to worry about debt will put me in a much more stable financial position than I was pre-law school. The additional marginal benefit of 195k over 60k wasn't worth the costs to QOL. (For me at least; as I said, to each their own. I have friends who have families to support; of course the calculus would be far different)
- Rahviveh
- Posts: 2333
- Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 12:02 pm
Re: Is the big law experience different for people who were poor before law school?
I was poor before law school and it still sucks. My hours are actually pretty good, but the time spent on tedious bull shit for tedious people is something that nobody can enjoy.
The typical poor pre law student did TFA, peace corps or political campaigns, all of which involve long hours for little monetary compensation. But those jobs are very different because you're usually in a social environment and helping people. It's just not the same as hunkering down and running through defined terms in a loan agreement or churning ancillary documents that nobody will ever read.
The typical poor pre law student did TFA, peace corps or political campaigns, all of which involve long hours for little monetary compensation. But those jobs are very different because you're usually in a social environment and helping people. It's just not the same as hunkering down and running through defined terms in a loan agreement or churning ancillary documents that nobody will ever read.
- jbagelboy
- Posts: 10361
- Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:57 pm
Re: Is the big law experience different for people who were poor before law school?
I still worry about/struggle to pay my billsSmokeytheBear wrote:It is awesome not to have to worry about paying bills.
It is awesome being able to take my parents to nice meals.
It is awesome knowing that my kids won't have to deal with the same stresses that I did.
I still don't bring my parents to nice meals
I still don't feel like I can have kids because I wouldn't be able to provide for them
Biglaw doesn't confer financial security to someone with six figure student loans and high CoL. And you're only in it for a few years during which you can barely save
(As a caveat I should concede that I did not grow up "poor" relative to some posters here. But I haven't received any financial support from my family since graduating from college so in at least one sense I dealt with the same financial realities when in biglaw. Not trying to compare the circumstances overall; the expectations are certainly different.)
-
- Posts: 150
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 1:06 am
Re: Is the big law experience different for people who were poor before law school?
Are you living a dramatically different lifestyle than you did in law school? (More expensive apartment, etc.) I ask because I've heard some people live very frugally (relative to colleagues) and find $180,000 more than enough money to live on and pay debt and save. It's alarming to hear that that salary is too low to support you.jbagelboy wrote:I still worry about/struggle to pay my billsSmokeytheBear wrote:It is awesome not to have to worry about paying bills.
It is awesome being able to take my parents to nice meals.
It is awesome knowing that my kids won't have to deal with the same stresses that I did.
I still don't bring my parents to nice meals
I still don't feel like I can have kids because I wouldn't be able to provide for them
Biglaw doesn't confer financial security to someone with six figure student loans and high CoL. And you're only in it for a few years during which you can barely save
(As a caveat I should concede that I did not grow up "poor" relative to some posters here. But I haven't received any financial support from my family since graduating from college so in at least one sense I dealt with the same financial realities when in biglaw. Not trying to compare the circumstances overall; the expectations are certainly different.)
Want to continue reading?
Register now to search topics and post comments!
Absolutely FREE!
Already a member? Login
- waldorf
- Posts: 2376
- Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2016 6:28 pm
Re: Is the big law experience different for people who were poor before law school?
If you're in a large city on the East Coast and are trying to throw 3-5k a month at loans, I could see how it would feel as if you still have to worry about money. After taxes, 180k is 110. Try to throw $40-50k a year at loans, and you're looking at around $60k a year. Certainly not nothing, but in a high COL area, it's not a lot either.RSolano wrote:Are you living a dramatically different lifestyle than you did in law school? (More expensive apartment, etc.) I ask because I've heard some people live very frugally (relative to colleagues) and find $180,000 more than enough money to live on and pay debt and save. It's alarming to hear that that salary is too low to support you.jbagelboy wrote:I still worry about/struggle to pay my billsSmokeytheBear wrote:It is awesome not to have to worry about paying bills.
It is awesome being able to take my parents to nice meals.
It is awesome knowing that my kids won't have to deal with the same stresses that I did.
I still don't bring my parents to nice meals
I still don't feel like I can have kids because I wouldn't be able to provide for them
Biglaw doesn't confer financial security to someone with six figure student loans and high CoL. And you're only in it for a few years during which you can barely save
(As a caveat I should concede that I did not grow up "poor" relative to some posters here. But I haven't received any financial support from my family since graduating from college so in at least one sense I dealt with the same financial realities when in biglaw. Not trying to compare the circumstances overall; the expectations are certainly different.)
- jbagelboy
- Posts: 10361
- Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:57 pm
Re: Is the big law experience different for people who were poor before law school?
To give a broad example (non-NYC), $10k/month take home after tax and healthcare, $2k/month on rent, $1k/month on car (payments, insurance, gas, parking), $4k/month on loans, several hundred per month on fixed utilities and other costs, $800/month on groceries and household items, and you're left with ~$1.5k for drinks, going out to eat, any travel, all necessary clothes, repairs, out of pocket medical costs, gifts, ect. And realistically associates spend way more than that on those things. Not to mention the stuff of life. Part of a friend's wedding party? That's $500+ right there. Want to visit your family for thanksgiving? $500+. Car accident deductible? $500. Savings? Ha. Forget about it. A kid? LOLbwaldorf wrote:If you're in a large city on the East Coast and are trying to throw 3-5k a month at loans, I could see how it would feel as if you still have to worry about money. After taxes, 180k is 110. Try to throw $40-50k a year at loans, and you're looking at around $60k a year. Certainly not nothing, but in a high COL area, it's not a lot either.RSolano wrote:Are you living a dramatically different lifestyle than you did in law school? (More expensive apartment, etc.) I ask because I've heard some people live very frugally (relative to colleagues) and find $180,000 more than enough money to live on and pay debt and save. It's alarming to hear that that salary is too low to support you.jbagelboy wrote:I still worry about/struggle to pay my billsSmokeytheBear wrote:It is awesome not to have to worry about paying bills.
It is awesome being able to take my parents to nice meals.
It is awesome knowing that my kids won't have to deal with the same stresses that I did.
I still don't bring my parents to nice meals
I still don't feel like I can have kids because I wouldn't be able to provide for them
Biglaw doesn't confer financial security to someone with six figure student loans and high CoL. And you're only in it for a few years during which you can barely save
(As a caveat I should concede that I did not grow up "poor" relative to some posters here. But I haven't received any financial support from my family since graduating from college so in at least one sense I dealt with the same financial realities when in biglaw. Not trying to compare the circumstances overall; the expectations are certainly different.)
By third year I feel like there's probably enough money around to save something and sure, have less stress about rent (never been a 3d yr so I don't know). By then you have about two years of biglaw left in you, if even, and any expansions of lifestyle (liberties almost everyone takes, sadly) will have to be planned.
- SmokeytheBear
- Posts: 926
- Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 1:40 pm
Re: Is the big law experience different for people who were poor before law school?
That proposed "budget" is spending with reckless abandon. I think a smudge of prudence in there would yield a lot of free cash.jbagelboy wrote:To give a broad example (non-NYC), $10k/month take home after tax and healthcare, $2k/month on rent, $1k/month on car (payments, insurance, gas, parking), $4k/month on loans, several hundred per month on fixed utilities and other costs, $800/month on groceries and household items, and you're left with ~$1.5k for drinks, going out to eat, any travel, all necessary clothes, repairs, out of pocket medical costs, gifts, ect. And realistically associates spend way more than that on those things. Not to mention the stuff of life. Part of a friend's wedding party? That's $500+ right there. Want to visit your family for thanksgiving? $500+. Car accident deductible? $500. Savings? Ha. Forget about it. A kid? LOLbwaldorf wrote:If you're in a large city on the East Coast and are trying to throw 3-5k a month at loans, I could see how it would feel as if you still have to worry about money. After taxes, 180k is 110. Try to throw $40-50k a year at loans, and you're looking at around $60k a year. Certainly not nothing, but in a high COL area, it's not a lot either.RSolano wrote:Are you living a dramatically different lifestyle than you did in law school? (More expensive apartment, etc.) I ask because I've heard some people live very frugally (relative to colleagues) and find $180,000 more than enough money to live on and pay debt and save. It's alarming to hear that that salary is too low to support you.jbagelboy wrote:I still worry about/struggle to pay my billsSmokeytheBear wrote:It is awesome not to have to worry about paying bills.
It is awesome being able to take my parents to nice meals.
It is awesome knowing that my kids won't have to deal with the same stresses that I did.
I still don't bring my parents to nice meals
I still don't feel like I can have kids because I wouldn't be able to provide for them
Biglaw doesn't confer financial security to someone with six figure student loans and high CoL. And you're only in it for a few years during which you can barely save
(As a caveat I should concede that I did not grow up "poor" relative to some posters here. But I haven't received any financial support from my family since graduating from college so in at least one sense I dealt with the same financial realities when in biglaw. Not trying to compare the circumstances overall; the expectations are certainly different.)
By third year I feel like there's probably enough money around to save something and sure, have less stress about rent (never been a 3d yr so I don't know). By then you have about two years of biglaw left in you, if even, and any expansions of lifestyle (liberties almost everyone takes, sadly) will have to be planned.
- landshoes
- Posts: 1291
- Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2012 2:17 pm
Re: Is the big law experience different for people who were poor before law school?
No it's not the same at all actuallyjbagelboy wrote:I still worry about/struggle to pay my billsSmokeytheBear wrote:It is awesome not to have to worry about paying bills.
It is awesome being able to take my parents to nice meals.
It is awesome knowing that my kids won't have to deal with the same stresses that I did.
I still don't bring my parents to nice meals
I still don't feel like I can have kids because I wouldn't be able to provide for them
Biglaw doesn't confer financial security to someone with six figure student loans and high CoL. And you're only in it for a few years during which you can barely save
(As a caveat I should concede that I did not grow up "poor" relative to some posters here. But I haven't received any financial support from my family since graduating from college so in at least one sense I dealt with the same financial realities when in biglaw. Not trying to compare the circumstances overall; the expectations are certainly different.)
- jbagelboy
- Posts: 10361
- Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:57 pm
Re: Is the big law experience different for people who were poor before law school?
No its not at all the same. I don't think it is. But for someone servicing a high loan balance living in a high CoL location, a first year in biglaw--raised in a lower income family or not--is not devoid of any financial stressors. The money is an advantage of the job but not a cure, and certainly not the best way to increase wealth (don't take on law school debt if you want to increase wealth)landshoes wrote:No it's not the same at all actuallyjbagelboy wrote:I still worry about/struggle to pay my billsSmokeytheBear wrote:It is awesome not to have to worry about paying bills.
It is awesome being able to take my parents to nice meals.
It is awesome knowing that my kids won't have to deal with the same stresses that I did.
I still don't bring my parents to nice meals
I still don't feel like I can have kids because I wouldn't be able to provide for them
Biglaw doesn't confer financial security to someone with six figure student loans and high CoL. And you're only in it for a few years during which you can barely save
(As a caveat I should concede that I did not grow up "poor" relative to some posters here. But I haven't received any financial support from my family since graduating from college so in at least one sense I dealt with the same financial realities when in biglaw. Not trying to compare the circumstances overall; the expectations are certainly different.)
- jbagelboy
- Posts: 10361
- Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:57 pm
Re: Is the big law experience different for people who were poor before law school?
I'm pulling out of a conversation I shouldn't have joined in the first place, but I just want to emphasize that the idea that these jobs provide a get-rich-quick card for someone who doesn't have a lot of money is a scam that has drawn tens of thousands into jobs they hate and filled them with regret
- SmokeytheBear
- Posts: 926
- Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 1:40 pm
Re: Is the big law experience different for people who were poor before law school?
I think you guys are kind of misunderstanding what the question being asked is.jbagelboy wrote:No its not at all the same. I don't think it is. But for someone servicing a high loan balance living in a high CoL location, a first year in biglaw--raised in a lower income family or not--is not devoid of any financial stressors. The money is an advantage of the job but not a cure, and certainly not the best way to increase wealth (don't take on law school debt if you want to increase wealth)landshoes wrote:No it's not the same at all actuallyjbagelboy wrote:I still worry about/struggle to pay my billsSmokeytheBear wrote:It is awesome not to have to worry about paying bills.
It is awesome being able to take my parents to nice meals.
It is awesome knowing that my kids won't have to deal with the same stresses that I did.
I still don't bring my parents to nice meals
I still don't feel like I can have kids because I wouldn't be able to provide for them
Biglaw doesn't confer financial security to someone with six figure student loans and high CoL. And you're only in it for a few years during which you can barely save
(As a caveat I should concede that I did not grow up "poor" relative to some posters here. But I haven't received any financial support from my family since graduating from college so in at least one sense I dealt with the same financial realities when in biglaw. Not trying to compare the circumstances overall; the expectations are certainly different.)
Not having dealt with the financial stresses of being poor your whole life and then all of a sudden having financial "stresses" due to school loans while making well over $180k a year and budgeting enough for a BMW and $700 for utilities is far different than having grown up poor, graduating from law school, getting a job that pays more than you can comprehend, and simply being able to pay your bills (which include servicing a new Honda lease and not blowing $1500 a month on a lavish lifestyle).
Sure they are stressors. But they lack perspective.
- PeanutsNJam
- Posts: 4670
- Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2012 1:57 pm
Re: Is the big law experience different for people who were poor before law school?
I hope you mean "195k with sticker debt" vs "60k without any debt," because 195k w/o debt is a-fucking-lot better than 60k w/o debt. Come on.ernie wrote:but how much better is 195k than 60k?
Register now!
Resources to assist law school applicants, students & graduates.
It's still FREE!
Already a member? Login
-
- Posts: 156
- Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2015 6:00 pm
Re: Is the big law experience different for people who were poor before law school?
.
Last edited by Bach-City on Sun Aug 27, 2017 11:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- elendinel
- Posts: 975
- Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2014 12:29 pm
Re: Is the big law experience different for people who were poor before law school?
Agree with both of you.Nebby wrote:This is basically my position too. 65k and no worries about student loans due to LRAP/PSLF. It's a dream combo and allows me to help out my family too.ernie wrote:Making 195k will certainly relieve money pressure, but baseline is relevant too right? Because it's not a comparison between 195k biglaw salary and pre-law school salary. It's a comparison between 195k biglaw and (hypothetically) 60k PI salary. 195k is far far better than 20k, but how much better is 195k than 60k? Especially after factoring in higher taxes on the 195k, and not having to service debt because of LRAP/PSLF?
Everyone is different, obviously. But for me at least, making (hypothetically) 60k and not having to worry about debt will put me in a much more stable financial position than I was pre-law school. The additional marginal benefit of 195k over 60k wasn't worth the costs to QOL. (For me at least; as I said, to each their own. I have friends who have families to support; of course the calculus would be far different)
I think the point is that for someone who grew up in a family that brought in a total of $30-40k/year, sure, $195k would be awesome, but $60k would still be a huge step up, too. They can still do a lot with $60k they couldn't do when they were younger. In that sense the jump from 60k to 195k is less significant than it'd be for someone who grew up with a family that, say, brought in $100k/year (where only one salary actually gets them above the QoL they had as a child).PeanutsNJam wrote:I hope you mean "195k with sticker debt" vs "60k without any debt," because 195k w/o debt is a-fucking-lot better than 60k w/o debt. Come on.ernie wrote:but how much better is 195k than 60k?
Another aspect of it is, some people have a point at which they can earn "too much" (i.e., where a salary would be so great they wouldn't know what to do with all the money). So while $195k is more than $60k, if someone doesn't even know what they'd do with $195k, the fact that it's mathematically more money becomes almost irrelevant. It merely becomes a larger number, not something that would actually significantly improve their life over having, say, only $100k. I'd imagine people used to being frugal probably tend to hit that threshold earlier than others.
-
- Posts: 222
- Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2016 2:31 am
Re: Is the big law experience different for people who were poor before law school?
This is a very interesting thread and I had the same questions a while back when I was going through OCI. As a former poor person who works in big law, here is what I noticed:
It depends on what part you're talking about because some things are easier than described and some are worse (especially some people don't talk about because well off people don't have to worry about them). So on the one hand, you're right. You've worked long hours (about the same if not worse) before law school for far less and so putting in so much work for a huge amount of money is definitely not as bad for you as it is for the person who mostly did "fellowships" or "free internships" to boost their resume or this is pretty much their first adult gig. On the other hand though, it's worse in the following respects:
(1) you likely had a manual labor job, where you could essentially turn off your brain and just go through the motions for 10 to 12 hours. And when you're done, you just "clock out" and leave the work at work. Law is different. You work with your brain non-stop, which can in some regard be more tiring than physical work. And you can't just "clock out" and leave it at work. It follows you home almost all the time and even if you're not working on it you can't help but think about it, when you shower, when you watch tv, when you're having that fancy dinner with your parents, when you're shitting on the toilet, seemingly all the time. You live and breathe the work, working your brain non-stop, and everything else seems like the TV playing in the background. It sucks but it's the job.
(2) The "misfit" between you and everything at your work (the co-workers, supervisors, the clients, etc) will chip away at you over time. I'm talking about your different likes and dislikes, what you find important or trivial in life, what type of activities you like doing, literally everything is pretty much different. So it gets so annoying having to put up a fake facade all the time, and it makes everything seem like a networking event, even when you're grabbing a beer with co workers. If you're lucky, you'll find someone else who was working-class before so you could hang out with them.
(3) It'll drive you further away from your current family and friends (an extension of number 2 above). You probably noticed it during law school already. Your family has trouble understanding what you're going through, what you're telling them, conversations are getting harder, etc. Now that you'll work longer hours and be adopting to your new environment, you'll essentially be removing who you were and moving further away from them. It gets weird at times.
It depends on what part you're talking about because some things are easier than described and some are worse (especially some people don't talk about because well off people don't have to worry about them). So on the one hand, you're right. You've worked long hours (about the same if not worse) before law school for far less and so putting in so much work for a huge amount of money is definitely not as bad for you as it is for the person who mostly did "fellowships" or "free internships" to boost their resume or this is pretty much their first adult gig. On the other hand though, it's worse in the following respects:
(1) you likely had a manual labor job, where you could essentially turn off your brain and just go through the motions for 10 to 12 hours. And when you're done, you just "clock out" and leave the work at work. Law is different. You work with your brain non-stop, which can in some regard be more tiring than physical work. And you can't just "clock out" and leave it at work. It follows you home almost all the time and even if you're not working on it you can't help but think about it, when you shower, when you watch tv, when you're having that fancy dinner with your parents, when you're shitting on the toilet, seemingly all the time. You live and breathe the work, working your brain non-stop, and everything else seems like the TV playing in the background. It sucks but it's the job.
(2) The "misfit" between you and everything at your work (the co-workers, supervisors, the clients, etc) will chip away at you over time. I'm talking about your different likes and dislikes, what you find important or trivial in life, what type of activities you like doing, literally everything is pretty much different. So it gets so annoying having to put up a fake facade all the time, and it makes everything seem like a networking event, even when you're grabbing a beer with co workers. If you're lucky, you'll find someone else who was working-class before so you could hang out with them.
(3) It'll drive you further away from your current family and friends (an extension of number 2 above). You probably noticed it during law school already. Your family has trouble understanding what you're going through, what you're telling them, conversations are getting harder, etc. Now that you'll work longer hours and be adopting to your new environment, you'll essentially be removing who you were and moving further away from them. It gets weird at times.
-
- Posts: 7791
- Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2014 12:05 pm
Re: Is the big law experience different for people who were poor before law school?
I have trouble believing this person (presumably someone with a college degree living in a city) exists. We're not talking about that much money, especially once you factor in taxes. No one could retire off of that amount, for example.elendinel wrote:Agree with both of you.Nebby wrote:This is basically my position too. 65k and no worries about student loans due to LRAP/PSLF. It's a dream combo and allows me to help out my family too.ernie wrote:Making 195k will certainly relieve money pressure, but baseline is relevant too right? Because it's not a comparison between 195k biglaw salary and pre-law school salary. It's a comparison between 195k biglaw and (hypothetically) 60k PI salary. 195k is far far better than 20k, but how much better is 195k than 60k? Especially after factoring in higher taxes on the 195k, and not having to service debt because of LRAP/PSLF?
Everyone is different, obviously. But for me at least, making (hypothetically) 60k and not having to worry about debt will put me in a much more stable financial position than I was pre-law school. The additional marginal benefit of 195k over 60k wasn't worth the costs to QOL. (For me at least; as I said, to each their own. I have friends who have families to support; of course the calculus would be far different)
I think the point is that for someone who grew up in a family that brought in a total of $30-40k/year, sure, $195k would be awesome, but $60k would still be a huge step up, too. They can still do a lot with $60k they couldn't do when they were younger. In that sense the jump from 60k to 195k is less significant than it'd be for someone who grew up with a family that, say, brought in $100k/year (where only one salary actually gets them above the QoL they had as a child).PeanutsNJam wrote:I hope you mean "195k with sticker debt" vs "60k without any debt," because 195k w/o debt is a-fucking-lot better than 60k w/o debt. Come on.ernie wrote:but how much better is 195k than 60k?
Another aspect of it is, some people have a point at which they can earn "too much" (i.e., where a salary would be so great they wouldn't know what to do with all the money). So while $195k is more than $60k, if someone doesn't even know what they'd do with $195k, the fact that it's mathematically more money becomes almost irrelevant. It merely becomes a larger number, not something that would actually significantly improve their life over having, say, only $100k. I'd imagine people used to being frugal probably tend to hit that threshold earlier than others.
Get unlimited access to all forums and topics
Register now!
I'm pretty sure I told you it's FREE...
Already a member? Login
-
- Posts: 156
- Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2015 6:00 pm
Re: Is the big law experience different for people who were poor before law school?
.
Last edited by Bach-City on Sun Aug 27, 2017 11:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
-
- Posts: 156
- Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2015 6:00 pm
Re: Is the big law experience different for people who were poor before law school?
.
Last edited by Bach-City on Sun Aug 27, 2017 11:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
-
- Posts: 170
- Joined: Tue Apr 11, 2017 12:34 am
Re: Is the big law experience different for people who were poor before law school?
PeanutsNJam wrote:I hope you mean "195k with sticker debt" vs "60k without any debt," because 195k w/o debt is a-fucking-lot better than 60k w/o debt. Come on.ernie wrote:but how much better is 195k than 60k?
Reading comp, how does it workernie wrote:Making 195k will certainly relieve money pressure, but baseline is relevant too right? Because it's not a comparison between 195k biglaw salary and pre-law school salary. It's a comparison between 195k biglaw and (hypothetically) 60k PI salary. 195k is far far better than 20k, but how much better is 195k than 60k? Especially after factoring in higher taxes on the 195k, and not having to service debt because of LRAP/PSLF?
-
- Posts: 7791
- Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2014 12:05 pm
Re: Is the big law experience different for people who were poor before law school?
But there are other, better options.Bach-City wrote:Believe it. I'm not the OP but in a similarHikikomorist wrote:I have trouble believing this person (presumably someone with a college degree living in a city) exists. We're not talking about that much money, especially once you factor in taxes. No one could retire off of that amount, for example.elendinel wrote:Agree with both of you.Nebby wrote:This is basically my position too. 65k and no worries about student loans due to LRAP/PSLF. It's a dream combo and allows me to help out my family too.ernie wrote:Making 195k will certainly relieve money pressure, but baseline is relevant too right? Because it's not a comparison between 195k biglaw salary and pre-law school salary. It's a comparison between 195k biglaw and (hypothetically) 60k PI salary. 195k is far far better than 20k, but how much better is 195k than 60k? Especially after factoring in higher taxes on the 195k, and not having to service debt because of LRAP/PSLF?
Everyone is different, obviously. But for me at least, making (hypothetically) 60k and not having to worry about debt will put me in a much more stable financial position than I was pre-law school. The additional marginal benefit of 195k over 60k wasn't worth the costs to QOL. (For me at least; as I said, to each their own. I have friends who have families to support; of course the calculus would be far different)
I think the point is that for someone who grew up in a family that brought in a total of $30-40k/year, sure, $195k would be awesome, but $60k would still be a huge step up, too. They can still do a lot with $60k they couldn't do when they were younger. In that sense the jump from 60k to 195k is less significant than it'd be for someone who grew up with a family that, say, brought in $100k/year (where only one salary actually gets them above the QoL they had as a child).PeanutsNJam wrote:I hope you mean "195k with sticker debt" vs "60k without any debt," because 195k w/o debt is a-fucking-lot better than 60k w/o debt. Come on.ernie wrote:but how much better is 195k than 60k?
Another aspect of it is, some people have a point at which they can earn "too much" (i.e., where a salary would be so great they wouldn't know what to do with all the money). So while $195k is more than $60k, if someone doesn't even know what they'd do with $195k, the fact that it's mathematically more money becomes almost irrelevant. It merely becomes a larger number, not something that would actually significantly improve their life over having, say, only $100k. I'd imagine people used to being frugal probably tend to hit that threshold earlier than others.
situation and I genuinely don't know how to spend that much money. I spend just the money I get in loans for COL without thinking and I end up with a surplus. I have no idea how I'm going to spend that money, especially since I'm going to a market with significantly less COL.
Communicate now with those who not only know what a legal education is, but can offer you worthy advice and commentary as you complete the three most educational, yet challenging years of your law related post graduate life.
Register now, it's still FREE!
Already a member? Login
- elendinel
- Posts: 975
- Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2014 12:29 pm
Re: Is the big law experience different for people who were poor before law school?
Hikikomorist wrote:I have trouble believing this person (presumably someone with a college degree living in a city) exists. We're not talking about that much money, especially once you factor in taxes. No one could retire off of that amount, for example.elendinel wrote:I think the point is that for someone who grew up in a family that brought in a total of $30-40k/year, sure, $195k would be awesome, but $60k would still be a huge step up, too. They can still do a lot with $60k they couldn't do when they were younger. In that sense the jump from 60k to 195k is less significant than it'd be for someone who grew up with a family that, say, brought in $100k/year (where only one salary actually gets them above the QoL they had as a child).
Another aspect of it is, some people have a point at which they can earn "too much" (i.e., where a salary would be so great they wouldn't know what to do with all the money). So while $195k is more than $60k, if someone doesn't even know what they'd do with $195k, the fact that it's mathematically more money becomes almost irrelevant. It merely becomes a larger number, not something that would actually significantly improve their life over having, say, only $100k. I'd imagine people used to being frugal probably tend to hit that threshold earlier than others.
Never change, TLS...
- Pneumonia
- Posts: 2096
- Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2012 3:05 pm
Re: Is the big law experience different for people who were poor before law school?
But the original point was about QoL. Arguably—and I think definitely for the discussion in this thread—saving and investing have a minor effect on QoL once they are occurring at a level sufficient to maintain one's lifestyle upon retirement.Hikikomorist wrote: But there are other, better options.
-
- Posts: 7791
- Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2014 12:05 pm
Re: Is the big law experience different for people who were poor before law school?
How soon one can reasonably expect to retire probably has an impact on one's QoL, right? Like, I'm going to be happier if I know I can retire next year than if I expect to have to work until I'm 70.Pneumonia wrote:But the original point was about QoL. Arguably—and I think definitely for the discussion in this thread—saving and investing have a minor effect on QoL once they are occurring at a level sufficient to maintain one's lifestyle upon retirement.Hikikomorist wrote: But there are other, better options.
- elendinel
- Posts: 975
- Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2014 12:29 pm
Re: Is the big law experience different for people who were poor before law school?
Is that because it's objectively better to retire early, or because biglaw sucks so much you'd hate to have to do it until you're 70, tho?Hikikomorist wrote:How soon one can reasonably expect to retire probably has an impact on one's QoL, right? Like, I'm going to be happier if I know I can retire next year than if I expect to have to work until I'm 70.Pneumonia wrote:But the original point was about QoL. Arguably—and I think definitely for the discussion in this thread—saving and investing have a minor effect on QoL once they are occurring at a level sufficient to maintain one's lifestyle upon retirement.Hikikomorist wrote: But there are other, better options.
Seriously? What are you waiting for?
Now there's a charge.
Just kidding ... it's still FREE!
Already a member? Login