GULC Students Taking Questions Forum

[buckiguy_sucks]

Thanks for the input guys

I'm not KJD but also work experience was short and non-profitey and unrelated to what I want to do so sounds like I may have to journal it up

I really really don't want to though so we'll see

Also the competition timing is shitty

[EzraFitz]

Thanks for the input guys

I'm not KJD but also work experience was short and non-profitey and unrelated to what I want to do so sounds like I may have to journal it up

I really really don't want to though so we'll see

Also the competition timing is shitty

FWIW I actually enjoy my journal work. It's a nice break from the usual stuff I do in school, and I find the topic moderately interesting, so that helps. This is why it is good to really think about the secondaries you rank. List ones you would actually want to do, in the order you would want to do them.

[OLitch]

Thanks for the input guys

I'm not KJD but also work experience was short and non-profitey and unrelated to what I want to do so sounds like I may have to journal it up

I really really don't want to though so we'll see

Also the competition timing is shitty

FWIW I actually enjoy my journal work. It's a nice break from the usual stuff I do in school, and I find the topic moderately interesting, so that helps. This is why it is good to really think about the secondaries you rank. List ones you would actually want to do, in the order you would want to do them.

How difficult is it to get on a secondary journal?

Do you need to be median+?

How much weight is given to the write on versus the GPA? I know each journal is different, but any information is greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

[TLSModBot]

Thanks for the input guys

I'm not KJD but also work experience was short and non-profitey and unrelated to what I want to do so sounds like I may have to journal it up

I really really don't want to though so we'll see

Also the competition timing is shitty

FWIW I actually enjoy my journal work. It's a nice break from the usual stuff I do in school, and I find the topic moderately interesting, so that helps. This is why it is good to really think about the secondaries you rank. List ones you would actually want to do, in the order you would want to do them.

How difficult is it to get on a secondary journal?

Do you need to be median+?

How much weight is given to the write on versus the GPA? I know each journal is different, but any information is greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

Ezra is an outlier/masochist/has high pain tolerance. Secondary journals are useless, the work is generally boring, and regardless of the journal topic the articles are not super fun to deal with.

There are just about as many journal spots as there are students electing to take Write-on. There are a handful of journals that claim the number 2 spot (Ethics, Tax Lawyer, Criminal Justice) but really they are all useless and samey.

There will be a ton of information about all the journals' acceptance criteria when you're a student and well before you have to make any choices regarding write-on or choosing a journal.

[Glasseyes]

Thanks for the input guys

I'm not KJD but also work experience was short and non-profitey and unrelated to what I want to do so sounds like I may have to journal it up

I really really don't want to though so we'll see

Also the competition timing is shitty

FWIW I actually enjoy my journal work. It's a nice break from the usual stuff I do in school, and I find the topic moderately interesting, so that helps. This is why it is good to really think about the secondaries you rank. List ones you would actually want to do, in the order you would want to do them.

How difficult is it to get on a secondary journal?

Do you need to be median+?

How much weight is given to the write on versus the GPA? I know each journal is different, but any information is greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

Ezra is an outlier/masochist/has high pain tolerance. Secondary journals are useless, the work is generally boring, and regardless of the journal topic the articles are not super fun to deal with.

There are just about as many journal spots as there are students electing to take Write-on. There are a handful of journals that claim the number 2 spot (Ethics, Tax Lawyer, Criminal Justice) but really they are all useless and samey.

There will be a ton of information about all the journals' acceptance criteria when you're a student and well before you have to make any choices regarding write-on or choosing a journal.

Actually the number 2 slot is supposedly tied between: ACLR (crim law), TTL (tax), and GJIL (international law). ACLR is probably the most work and tax probably the least, though I don't really know anyone on GJIL. Ethics is tied with a bunch of other stuff for third, and then there are some random ones that are theoretically lower. The informal rankings derive from how high you have to preference these journals in order to have a shot at getting on them (i.e., main journal always requires top ranking; ACRL, TTL, and GJIL require #2 bid or higher; the rest are 3 or lower). Every journal balances grades vs write on scores slightly differently, but in practice it probably plays out about the same. If you absolutely crush the write-on, you can get on main journal even with mediocre grades, supposedly, though most of the slots will go to people with ridiculous grades anyway (though that's not a guarantee).

Agreed with Cap Idea that all journal work is horrible and that no one in their right mind would actually enjoy this. It's just grinding through the bluebook and hunting for typos for like 8 hours at a time when you don't have 8 hours to spend on anything besides real homework. I fucked up a midterm royally because of journal assignment that took three straight days.

I still have no way of quantifying what my secondary journal pedigree (ACLR) got me at OCI, but I will say this: firms typically send out interviewers who went to GULC and while plenty of them were main journal alums, there were just as many who did ACLR and TTL. I didn't interview with a single partner or associate who had done a different secondary journal. Make of that what you will.

[zozo1717]

Thanks for answering Qs - any insight into how IP-interested students have done in OCI? (backgrounds in STEM).

[Londonbear]

Thanks for the input guys

I'm not KJD but also work experience was short and non-profitey and unrelated to what I want to do so sounds like I may have to journal it up

I really really don't want to though so we'll see

Also the competition timing is shitty

FWIW I actually enjoy my journal work. It's a nice break from the usual stuff I do in school, and I find the topic moderately interesting, so that helps. This is why it is good to really think about the secondaries you rank. List ones you would actually want to do, in the order you would want to do them.

How difficult is it to get on a secondary journal?

Do you need to be median+?

How much weight is given to the write on versus the GPA? I know each journal is different, but any information is greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

Ezra is an outlier/masochist/has high pain tolerance. Secondary journals are useless, the work is generally boring, and regardless of the journal topic the articles are not super fun to deal with.

There are just about as many journal spots as there are students electing to take Write-on. There are a handful of journals that claim the number 2 spot (Ethics, Tax Lawyer, Criminal Justice) but really they are all useless and samey.

There will be a ton of information about all the journals' acceptance criteria when you're a student and well before you have to make any choices regarding write-on or choosing a journal.

Actually the number 2 slot is supposedly tied between: ACLR (crim law), TTL (tax), and GJIL (international law). ACLR is probably the most work and tax probably the least, though I don't really know anyone on GJIL. Ethics is tied with a bunch of other stuff for third, and then there are some random ones that are theoretically lower. The informal rankings derive from how high you have to preference these journals in order to have a shot at getting on them (i.e., main journal always requires top ranking; ACRL, TTL, and GJIL require #2 bid or higher; the rest are 3 or lower). Every journal balances grades vs write on scores slightly differently, but in practice it probably plays out about the same. If you absolutely crush the write-on, you can get on main journal even with mediocre grades, supposedly, though most of the slots will go to people with ridiculous grades anyway (though that's not a guarantee).

Agreed with Cap Idea that all journal work is horrible and that no one in their right mind would actually enjoy this. It's just grinding through the bluebook and hunting for typos for like 8 hours at a time when you don't have 8 hours to spend on anything besides real homework. I fucked up a midterm royally because of journal assignment that took three straight days.

I still have no way of quantifying what my secondary journal pedigree (ACLR) got me at OCI, but I will say this: firms typically send out interviewers who went to GULC and while plenty of them were main journal alums, there were just as many who did ACLR and TTL. I didn't interview with a single partner or associate who had done a different secondary journal. Make of that what you will.

I disagree about the OCI part. I don't remember a single person I interviewed with from GULC that was on the main journal or any of the listed journal. But that could be because I interviewed with mostly NYC firms. In general though, I don't think it really matters to interviewers unless you're on the main journal. If you don't have main journal, I don't think it hurts. The interviewers just focus on the rest of your resume. If you have some other journal, they might ask your interest in that particular subject matter. If I could do over, I'd probably not bother with the write-on because after that crap, there's just more crap that comes from being a part of any journal.

Here's the link for the journal comparison for last year to give you an idea of what are the breakdowns:
http://www.law.georgetown.edu/academics ... rt2015.pdf

If you're going for IP and you have a technical background, I think the general consensus is you're golden. During OCI, those interviews were always open and with excellent firms.

[TLSModBot]

Oh also secret TCR is to quit journal either after you get an offer or after your SA if you want to play it safe.

Journals hang the 'we'll report to your firm and you have to update your resume etc.' over your head. Ask your firm, they'll tell you they don't care, and then laugh in journal's face.

[Hand]

How many people apply for the main journal? And how many do they take? I'm not really interested in the secondary ones b/c all I care about is prestige.

[TLSModBot]

How many people apply for the main journal? And how many do they take? I'm not really interested in the secondary ones b/c all I care about is prestige.

Too many, too many, and lol, respectively

[Hand]

How many people apply for the main journal? And how many do they take? I'm not really interested in the secondary ones b/c all I care about is prestige.

Too many, too many, and lol, respectively

I need to have dat fancyyyy l. rev. on mah resume oh wait they don't even call it that at this toilet

[Glasseyes]

I disagree about the OCI part. I don't remember a single person I interviewed with from GULC that was on the main journal or any of the listed journal. But that could be because I interviewed with mostly NYC firms. In general though, I don't think it really matters to interviewers unless you're on the main journal. If you don't have main journal, I don't think it hurts. The interviewers just focus on the rest of your resume. If you have some other journal, they might ask your interest in that particular subject matter. If I could do over, I'd probably not bother with the write-on because after that crap, there's just more crap that comes from being a part of any journal.

Here's the link for the journal comparison for last year to give you an idea of what are the breakdowns:
http://www.law.georgetown.edu/academics ... rt2015.pdf

If you're going for IP and you have a technical background, I think the general consensus is you're golden. During OCI, those interviews were always open and with excellent firms.

Yeah, I should have given the caveat that I only interviewed with DC offices. I guess that tracks to the general perception of this city's hiring goals, for better or worse.

[buckiguy_sucks]

I know this is early, but;
Does anyone have any general advice on bidding DC?

I'm with a regulatory agency in the field I want to be in this summer but don't have any experience before law school in it.

I have an SO with a reason to be in DC but its not like she's immovable.

Don't have SullCrom grades but not in a bad position.

I'll want to try to maximize DC chances but I'm kind of risk adverse and don't want to be not employed.

[Glasseyes]

I know this is early, but;
Does anyone have any general advice on bidding DC?

I'm with a regulatory agency in the field I want to be in this summer but don't have any experience before law school in it.

I have an SO with a reason to be in DC but its not like she's immovable.

Don't have SullCrom grades but not in a bad position.

I'll want to try to maximize DC chances but I'm kind of risk adverse and don't want to be not employed.

nah, it's good to be thinking about it now. feel free to shoot me a PM

[BmoreOrLess]

Ezra is an outlier/masochist/has high pain tolerance. Secondary journals are useless, the work is generally boring, and regardless of the journal topic the articles are not super fun to deal with.

Agreed with Cap Idea that all journal work is horrible and that no one in their right mind would actually enjoy this. It's just grinding through the bluebook and hunting for typos for like 8 hours at a time when you don't have 8 hours to spend on anything besides real homework. I fucked up a midterm royally because of journal assignment that took three straight days.

While both of these are mostly credited, the Tax Lawyer isn't close to this amount of work. I've had one assignment (out of now six) where I thought I got 'fucked' and it took me about eight hours total over ten days. I am highly skeptical of the value of extracurriculars in law school, but I've found the journal nonsense thus far to be worth the (potential/theoretical) value of not having to answer "why are you not on a journal?" question.

But yes, the work is boring, you don't actually learn anything, and it's completely useless. I probably didn't need it at EIW, but it was nice to have one more thing to be 'confident' about going in.

Oh and run from ACLR. They absolutely have an obscene amount of work (based on my friends' experiences).

[Glasseyes]

Ezra is an outlier/masochist/has high pain tolerance. Secondary journals are useless, the work is generally boring, and regardless of the journal topic the articles are not super fun to deal with.

Agreed with Cap Idea that all journal work is horrible and that no one in their right mind would actually enjoy this. It's just grinding through the bluebook and hunting for typos for like 8 hours at a time when you don't have 8 hours to spend on anything besides real homework. I fucked up a midterm royally because of journal assignment that took three straight days.

While both of these are mostly credited, the Tax Lawyer isn't close to this amount of work. I've had one assignment (out of now six) where I thought I got 'fucked' and it took me about eight hours total over ten days. I am highly skeptical of the value of extracurriculars in law school, but I've found the journal nonsense thus far to be worth the (potential/theoretical) value of not having to answer "why are you not on a journal?" question.

But yes, the work is boring, you don't actually learn anything, and it's completely useless. I probably didn't need it at EIW, but it was nice to have one more thing to be 'confident' about going in.

Oh and run from ACLR. They absolutely have an obscene amount of work (based on my friends' experiences).

Yeah, for sure. TTL seems like far less work than ACLR. For anyone considering main journal: those guys have about 3 times as much work as ACLR, which means it literally never ends. I've talked to people who had three separate assignments due on the same day, and each of those assignments was worse than anything I've had to do for ACLR (and as discussed above, our ACLR assignments are often horrible).

[EzraFitz]

Ezra is an outlier/masochist/has high pain tolerance. Secondary journals are useless, the work is generally boring, and regardless of the journal topic the articles are not super fun to deal with.

Agreed with Cap Idea that all journal work is horrible and that no one in their right mind would actually enjoy this. It's just grinding through the bluebook and hunting for typos for like 8 hours at a time when you don't have 8 hours to spend on anything besides real homework. I fucked up a midterm royally because of journal assignment that took three straight days.

While both of these are mostly credited, the Tax Lawyer isn't close to this amount of work. I've had one assignment (out of now six) where I thought I got 'fucked' and it took me about eight hours total over ten days. I am highly skeptical of the value of extracurriculars in law school, but I've found the journal nonsense thus far to be worth the (potential/theoretical) value of not having to answer "why are you not on a journal?" question.

But yes, the work is boring, you don't actually learn anything, and it's completely useless. I probably didn't need it at EIW, but it was nice to have one more thing to be 'confident' about going in.

Oh and run from ACLR. They absolutely have an obscene amount of work (based on my friends' experiences).

Yeah, for sure. TTL seems like far less work than ACLR. For anyone considering main journal: those guys have about 3 times as much work as ACLR, which means it literally never ends. I've talked to people who had three separate assignments due on the same day, and each of those assignments was worse than anything I've had to do for ACLR (and as discussed above, our ACLR assignments are often horrible).

Yeah, I've definitely heard horror stories from Main Journal. Definitely something to consider, if the work is actually worth the potential benefit. I agree that TTL is lighter, and maybe that's why I actually enjoy it.

How difficult is it to get on a secondary journal?

Do you need to be median+?

How much weight is given to the write on versus the GPA? I know each journal is different, but any information is greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

Getting on to any journal at GULC is unfortunately really a black box. They tell you this random criteria, but it isn't very helpful, because half the journals have exceptions (like 10% get on with just a personal statement, no matter their grades and as long as they have a minimally cohesive entry). I don't know most of the grades of people on my journal, but those that I do know are at or above median. But that's like, 5 data points out of 100, so take that fwiw.

[TLSModBot]

Getting on to any journal at GULC is unfortunately really a black box. They tell you this random criteria, but it isn't very helpful, because half the journals have exceptions (like 10% get on with just a personal statement, no matter their grades and as long as they have a minimally cohesive entry). I don't know most of the grades of people on my journal, but those that I do know are at or above median. But that's like, 5 data points out of 100, so take that fwiw.

They give you a sheet with all the specific "criteria" on it (whether it's grades, write-on score, etc.) Only main journal is really weird because they have 3 different paths to getting on - raw write-on score, grades, or personal statement.

Keep in mind though that GULC has something like 12 journals at this point: there are pretty much enough spots that I have yet to meet someone that participated in Write-on and didn't have the opportunity to join at least a secondary journal.

I'd also guess the total number of journal spots to be over 200, given that main journal alone takes like, what, 70? At least several of the higher secondaries take 30-40 (or more), so you're looking at very slim odds of not making any journal.

[EzraFitz]

Getting on to any journal at GULC is unfortunately really a black box. They tell you this random criteria, but it isn't very helpful, because half the journals have exceptions (like 10% get on with just a personal statement, no matter their grades and as long as they have a minimally cohesive entry). I don't know most of the grades of people on my journal, but those that I do know are at or above median. But that's like, 5 data points out of 100, so take that fwiw.

They give you a sheet with all the specific "criteria" on it (whether it's grades, write-on score, etc.) Only main journal is really weird because they have 3 different paths to getting on - raw write-on score, grades, or personal statement.

Keep in mind though that GULC has something like 12 journals at this point: there are pretty much enough spots that I have yet to meet someone that participated in Write-on and didn't have the opportunity to join at least a secondary journal.

I'd also guess the total number of journal spots to be over 200, given that main journal alone takes like, what, 70? At least several of the higher secondaries take 30-40 (or more), so you're looking at very slim odds of not making any journal.

Apparently 2 people this past year did not get onto any journal. I have no idea why though. And it is true that most journals are more straight forward than main journal.

Also, I still enjoy journal, but that was the worst cite check ever.

[buckiguy_sucks]

given that main journal alone takes like, what, 70? At least several of the higher secondaries take 30-40 (or more)

Jesus I assumed it was like 15-20

[Hand]

given that main journal alone takes like, what, 70? At least several of the higher secondaries take 30-40 (or more)

Jesus I assumed it was like 15-20

Jesus would approve of the democratic socialist approach to journal membership for everyone here at GULC

[TLSModBot]

given that main journal alone takes like, what, 70? At least several of the higher secondaries take 30-40 (or more)

Jesus I assumed it was like 15-20

Maybe it's in the 50's. It's a large number in any case.

[SD619]

I just got a scholarship consideration email from Georgetown that says to tell them where Georgetown fits into my thinking and how much money would influence my decision.

Is now the time to start telling them about other acceptances? What is the protocol for this without coming off as pretentious?

[Gray]

.

[buckiguy_sucks]

I just got a scholarship consideration email from Georgetown that says to tell them where Georgetown fits into my thinking and how much money would influence my decision.

Is now the time to start telling them about other acceptances? What is the protocol for this without coming off as pretentious?

the c/o 2019 thread is probably a better place to discuss specifics, but the idea here is to emphasize how serious you are about attending GULC (regardless of whether that is true) and then explain why your financial considerations, including other scholarship offers, may force you to attend another school if you they aren't able to come close/match/exceed that amount. I don't think it makes sense to list ALL your scholarship offers, maybe the biggest one or two you are seriously considering.

In the first email? I would put a high number and say GULC is #1 but too expensive and then round 2 you bring in the other offers and start asking for matching etc