GULC Students Taking Questions Forum

[buckiguy_sucks]

More curiosity where I stand than stress

[Loney M. Setnick]

Hi there,

I was wondering if anyone here could tell me more about the Global Scholars Program (or could refer me to a current/past scholar). I'm going to apply and wanted to know what they look for in a competitive applicant (besides what's stated on the website). Also, on the application form I saw that you're supposed to answer a series of questions. Should I write an answer to each question specifically, or write an essay in which I answer all of the questions? Thanks in advance for any advice/thoughts/tips you may have

[Gray]

.

[BmoreOrLess]

More curiosity where I stand than stress

I *think* if you express interest in corporate at the right firms they'll dip lower than the usual DC nonsense. This is very anecdotal tho as I didn't push hard for DC at all and am speculating on other people's grades.

[gazorpazorp]

Fellow 2L from Section 2, just stopping by to say hi. I'm an older, non-traditional student, happy to answer any questions for fellow weirdos like me.

As for the central question floating through this thread: I'm happy I chose Georgetown. I frequently bitch about the workload (which will destroy you somewhat in the fall, and utterly in the spring), but I like the majority of professors I've come across, and even our stranger classmates add to the breadth and diversity of the overall experience. EIW is madness due to the size of the class, but if you go along for the ride and focus on improving throughout the process, you can have a great outcome. I get the general sense that folks did pretty well. A lot of us landed DC biglaw, and I know lots headed to NY or elsewhere. For comparison sake, the drop off in hiring at even GW is precipitous. GW has absurdly high GPA cutoffs for many firms, to the point where the winners feast and the rest starve. GULC is no cakewalk, but you've got a far better shot of landing something at top half or top third.

If you're considering GULC, be aggressive with scholarship negotiations. You have to fight to get money up front, but once you get it you can negotiate before the first deposit deadline, again before the second deposit (MAKE SURE YOU DOUBLE DEPOSIT SOMEWHERE THAT OFFERED YOU MORE MONEY), and even again a week or two before orientation. They won't offer any of this up unless you ask, so be sure to ask. People complain that GULC is stingy with aid, but it's more that they're cautious in handing it out.

RE: scholarship negotiations. I currently have Michigan summer-start as my only competing T14 offer. Will the time-crunch caused by the summer start (one deposit late April; class starts May 31) cripple my negotiations with GULC? Also you mention asking for additional aid a week or two before orientation. I'm confused as to what your leverage would be at that point.

[cdavis1024]

Fellow 2L from Section 2, just stopping by to say hi. I'm an older, non-traditional student, happy to answer any questions for fellow weirdos like me.

As for the central question floating through this thread: I'm happy I chose Georgetown. I frequently bitch about the workload (which will destroy you somewhat in the fall, and utterly in the spring), but I like the majority of professors I've come across, and even our stranger classmates add to the breadth and diversity of the overall experience. EIW is madness due to the size of the class, but if you go along for the ride and focus on improving throughout the process, you can have a great outcome. I get the general sense that folks did pretty well. A lot of us landed DC biglaw, and I know lots headed to NY or elsewhere. For comparison sake, the drop off in hiring at even GW is precipitous. GW has absurdly high GPA cutoffs for many firms, to the point where the winners feast and the rest starve. GULC is no cakewalk, but you've got a far better shot of landing something at top half or top third.

If you're considering GULC, be aggressive with scholarship negotiations. You have to fight to get money up front, but once you get it you can negotiate before the first deposit deadline, again before the second deposit (MAKE SURE YOU DOUBLE DEPOSIT SOMEWHERE THAT OFFERED YOU MORE MONEY), and even again a week or two before orientation. They won't offer any of this up unless you ask, so be sure to ask. People complain that GULC is stingy with aid, but it's more that they're cautious in handing it out.

RE: scholarship negotiations. I currently have Michigan summer-start as my only competing T14 offer. Will the time-crunch caused by the summer start (one deposit late April; class starts May 31) cripple my negotiations with GULC? Also you mention asking for additional aid a week or two before orientation. I'm confused as to what your leverage would be at that point.

I'm in this predicament also. I was initially excited about the prospect of Summer Start, but now, it seems to be making life much harder by robbing me of 60 days to decide where the F I'm going. And I need $.

I'm guessing the leverage the week or two before orientation would be threatening to drop - if you've paid your deposit but also deposited somewhere else, you can (*again, guessing*), tell GULC you need a little more, or you'll be withdrawing and going to school at School2.

[Glasseyes]

RE: scholarship negotiations. I currently have Michigan summer-start as my only competing T14 offer. Will the time-crunch caused by the summer start (one deposit late April; class starts May 31) cripple my negotiations with GULC? Also you mention asking for additional aid a week or two before orientation. I'm confused as to what your leverage would be at that point.

I'm in this predicament also. I was initially excited about the prospect of Summer Start, but now, it seems to be making life much harder by robbing me of 60 days to decide where the F I'm going. And I need $.

I'm guessing the leverage the week or two before orientation would be threatening to drop - if you've paid your deposit but also deposited somewhere else, you can (*again, guessing*), tell GULC you need a little more, or you'll be withdrawing and going to school at School2.

Hard to say what impact the summer-start deadline will have, but definitely mention your deadlines when communicating with admissions. If I remember correctly, Texas had an earlier deadline and I went ahead and deposited for that (it was only like $200), which was my bargaining chip before GULC's 2nd deposit date.

Yeah, the final hail mary is basically just that: you reach out before orientation and say how much you want to attend, but the looming debt might not be manageable, yadda yadda. Say something like "I know it might not be possible, but I thought with waitlist season in full swing there might be some additional merit aid available." That's the truth of it: they may have some of their aid budget left, or they may not. If they do, they might want to keep you rather than having to offer someone else off the WL and go through that whole process. Or maybe not. I have unique/weird softs (but not URM) and am older with a lot of work experience, so my experience might have been unique anyway.

The key to these negotiations (and really any in life) is playing your cards well. If you're a borderline candidate, nothing you say will make a difference. UCLA offered me nothing and no amount of negotiations changed that, even when I had money from GULC. My GPA was low for that school, and there were plenty of other asses to fill that seat. Another key point: when you think about using leverage in a negotiation discussion, you rarely want to wield it like a sword. Don't go out of your way to hide it, but don't use it to threaten. So when you ask for more money late in the game, you're not threatening them at all, you're just asking for some help. Let them think through the consequences of what happens if you ultimately decline the offer (more work for them at a time when they're already overworked), but don't explicitly bring any of that up. The more professionally you conduct yourself the more hirable you appear, and that's always a good look with admissions. Some of my friends tried similar negotiations and had more or less success than I did, so as with everything, YMMV. Good luck.

[TheSpanishMain]

My sense is that the DC market isn't as impossible as TLS makes it out to be - I know at least one guy just below 3.5 who snagged lower V100 in DC, but no idea how common/reliable that is for prediction purposes.

Yeah, I think people exaggerate how hard it is to get DC BigLaw. I had very median grades and had multiple DC offers. You probably won't crack the Covingtons or the A&Ps of the world, but if your goal is just a market paying job in DC it's certainly possible. If you're BigLaw or bust, though, I wouldn't necessarily put all your eggs in the DC basket. It's certainly not a given, but it's not some remote, pie in the sky goal either.

[cdavis1024]

[quote="Glasseyes"][/quote]

This was a very useful account, Glasseyes! Thank you!

[Londonbear]

Also extremely anecdotal but from friends, past experience, etc. Re: OCI - it seems like below 3.33 is trouble, above 3.67 means you'll likely do well, and everything in between is up in the air (though everyone I know over 3.5 got something even if it wasn't their top choice).

whats the word on staying in DC below 3.67? Impossible?

I thought Georgetown EIW 2015 Thread was useful. Some posted their stats, so it can kind of give you an idea what's possible. There's also advice here and there about what worked for some and what didn't work.

[Hand]

Any 2Ls here who (a) had Carstens for property last year, (b) did well, and (c) have an outline they are willing to share?

[buckiguy_sucks]

Any 2Ls here who (a) had Carstens for property last year, (b) did well, and (c) have an outline they are willing to share?

or if you didn't do well I just want an outline

[Hand]

Any 2Ls here who (a) had Carstens for property last year, (b) did well, and (c) have an outline they are willing to share?

or if you didn't do well I just want an outline

^^

[TLSModBot]

Don't know if this helps - I found my old property outline but it was for a different professor (Byrne). Got an A and literally played video games in class (when I attended) so maybe that's what helped me idk.

[zg2144]

New thread for GULC students to answer any questions.

Am a rising 2L, was in Section 2, went through EIW, thought TLS forums were extremely helpful, so paying it forward and will answer any questions that I can.

Did you have to interview for GULC? If so do you have any pointers?

[buckiguy_sucks]

Did you have to interview for GULC? If so do you have any pointers?

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... start=1900

this thread might be better suited because other applicants there are going through interviews as well

i didn't have to interview but i imagine having a really really strong "why gulc/why dc" would be good

[zg2144]

Did you have to interview for GULC? If so do you have any pointers?

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... start=1900

this thread might be better suited because other applicants there are going through interviews as well

i didn't have to interview but i imagine having a really really strong "why gulc/why dc" would be good

Thanks!

[BmoreOrLess]

New thread for GULC students to answer any questions.

Am a rising 2L, was in Section 2, went through EIW, thought TLS forums were extremely helpful, so paying it forward and will answer any questions that I can.

Did you have to interview for GULC? If so do you have any pointers?

Assuming your talking about individual interviews, just have the why Law School/Why GULC/Why DC answers ready to go and know your resume well. That's about all you can really prepare for.

Mine was very casual, and my responses of "more interested in the structure of transactions rather than the economics" for why law and "Strong Tax reputation"/"Wanting to stay near Baltimore while having national reach" for why GULC/DC were more than enough.

[buckiguy_sucks]

If I got a not good grade in legal writing 1st semester and none of the journals have a substantive area of interest for me is there any point in doing write on

Edit: my point is i'm bad at legal writing and i would only want main journal

[TLSModBot]

If I got a not good grade in legal writing 1st semester and none of the journals have a substantive area of interest for me is there any point in doing write on

It can't hurt to gun for main journal and just decline to do a Journal if you don't get it.

But overall it's not gonna make or break you for hiring in any real capacity and the competition and journal work is dumb so maybe just skip it altogether I dunno.

[EzraFitz]

If I got a not good grade in legal writing 1st semester and none of the journals have a substantive area of interest for me is there any point in doing write on

It can't hurt to gun for main journal and just decline to do a Journal if you don't get it.

But overall it's not gonna make or break you for hiring in any real capacity and the competition and journal work is dumb so maybe just skip it altogether I dunno.

If you don't mind 5-7 super annoying days at the beginning of summer, no point in not gunning for it. Some writing teachers have completely different ideas of how legal writing should look. Keep in mind that students are grading the write-on submissions, not writing professors.

But yeah, I doubt actually getting LR or not will matter for employment purposes.

[BmoreOrLess]

If I got a not good grade in legal writing 1st semester and none of the journals have a substantive area of interest for me is there any point in doing write on

Edit: my point is i'm bad at legal writing and i would only want main journal

FWIW, i found write on and brief writing totally different than memo writing. I similarly bombed memo and wound up in solid shape, so I wouldn't write off LRW/Journal yet.

I didn't bid main journal tho, because fuck that shit. Tax Lawyer is great for the common slacker.

[TheSpanishMain]

But yeah, I doubt actually getting LR or not will matter for employment purposes.

I realize it's anecdotal, but I'm not on a journal and no one seemed to care in the slightest at EIW. I think for a lot of people the work:payoff ratio on a journal is not great.

[TLSModBot]

Honestly for the firms where it matters (and this is a very small number): A) it's main journal or bust and B) you'd have to have tippy top grades anyway to have a strong chance.

[Glasseyes]

I think the value of journal would be much, much higher for K-JD's or anyone else who won't have much to talk about in an interview. As someone with plenty to talk about in an interview, being on my secondary journal is almost certainly a colossal waste of time. That said: both of my OCI interviewers at the firm I ended up accepting were on the exact same secondary journal as me, so who the fuck knows.

tl'dr journal is good padding for thin resumes; otherwise it's like volunteering for homework club