Recently Graduated UT Law Student taking questions Forum

[dkb17xzx]

The biggest obstacle to small firm hiring is that they hire extremely infrequently. But, they do hire. But you have to scour very intently for those that are hiring. My suggestion would be to survey a large sampling of small firms early on in law school to get an idea of what they want from prospective associates. Smaller firms seem to care more about what practical skills you can bring to the table than grades unless your grades are awful. Some of the larger small firms that handle commercial litigation hire much more frequently. But those jobs are also more competitive. Bad grades would spell the kiss of death for those firms. They are just miniature biglaw lit departments, basically. But as competitive as those jobs are, they aren't nearly as competitive as your biglaw or midlaw jobs because most of these firms don't recruit at OCI, at least they didn't when I was there. I have only come to find out about these firms while practicing because they were my opponents.

So how can one find out about them? Martindale Hubbell? HG?



For the general forum: what would be an ideal strategy for 0Ls thinking about approaching firms for 1L internships? I don't mean biglaw firms but mid-size / small firms. Prepare resumes / cover letters and depend on 1L OCI / simplicity / OCS? Actively mass mail as many firms as possible come 12/1?

[dkb17xzx]

Unlicensed - if you don't mind sharing, what is your GPA / class percentile?

I don't want to give anything too precise, just to be safe. It's between 3.8 and 4.0. As far as class percentile, I don't really have any idea. People say anecdotally that 3.8 is top 10% but I think that is a little generous. UT only publishes median and top 25%.

Fair enough. Thanks for stating the range. Congrats on killing 1L and the multiple SA offers.

[nonprofit-prophet]

3.8 is actually a little high. I'm a 3L and I heard top 10% was like a 3.76. And I was told directly by an administrator that there were about 7 people with above 4.0s after fall of 2L year.

[utlaw2007]

The biggest obstacle to small firm hiring is that they hire extremely infrequently. But, they do hire. But you have to scour very intently for those that are hiring. My suggestion would be to survey a large sampling of small firms early on in law school to get an idea of what they want from prospective associates. Smaller firms seem to care more about what practical skills you can bring to the table than grades unless your grades are awful. Some of the larger small firms that handle commercial litigation hire much more frequently. But those jobs are also more competitive. Bad grades would spell the kiss of death for those firms. They are just miniature biglaw lit departments, basically. But as competitive as those jobs are, they aren't nearly as competitive as your biglaw or midlaw jobs because most of these firms don't recruit at OCI, at least they didn't when I was there. I have only come to find out about these firms while practicing because they were my opponents.

So how can one find out about them? Martindale Hubbell? HG?

You can use Mrtindale. That is a good starting point. But I would try to find some list of firms by size with the Texas Bar. I do not even know if a list exists. But every licensed lawyer is listed with the Texas Bar on their website, including the firm he/she is affiliated with. My guess is that they have some sort of hard copy list or a search function that searches firms by firm size, according to the size groupings they have on the site. Martindale is good, though. It's just that it is private so not everyone may be registered with it. But most are.

[dkb17xzx]

Thanks, utlaw.

Another question - what's the best way to find out whether these small / mid-sized firms are hiring 1L interns for the summer? Call them? Email?


On a side note, this thread turned out to be very informative. To all those who responded (& will respond), thank you.

[utlaw2007]

Thanks, utlaw.

Another question - what's the best way to find out whether these small / mid-sized firms are hiring 1L interns for the summer? Call them? Email?


On a side note, this thread turned out to be very informative. To all those who responded (& will respond), thank you.

I can't say for sure, but I think it's best to email them. If you call, you probably won't speak to who you need to speak with. And I seriously doubt they will get your message to the right person concerning that issue. If you were a client, they would. But you're not a client. If you email, you can email the right person as opposed to getting a secretary or something. That's not to say they would answer your email. But if they don't answer your email, you have probably gotten your answer that they are not hiring as of now.

[Apollo526]

Thanks, utlaw.

Another question - what's the best way to find out whether these small / mid-sized firms are hiring 1L interns for the summer? Call them? Email?


On a side note, this thread turned out to be very informative. To all those who responded (& will respond), thank you.

I can't say for sure, but I think it's best to email them. If you call, you probably won't speak to who you need to speak with. And I seriously doubt they will get your message to the right person concerning that issue. If you were a client, they would. But you're not a client. If you email, you can email the right person as opposed to getting a secretary or something. That's not to say they would answer your email. But if they don't answer your email, you have probably gotten your answer that they are not hiring as of now.

CSO (at least used to) holds a small firm networking event in the spring. I attended my 1L year, but don't remember it my 2L or 3L. Its entirely possible I just missed the emails. Other than that, I'd go with a combo approach of first finding them using a mix of Martindale and Google. Second, try to find a partner that you have some connection to. If you want to do trademark work, find the guy that handles the firm's trademark stuff. Generally in smaller firms you will see a lot of cross over between people -but still try to find some connection to the guy you are emailing. You want to give him some reason not to immediately hit delete or put you in a folder. Third, follow up if you don't hear anything. In your initial e-mail, say "I will be following up in X weeks" blah blah blah. Then do it. After that, only follow up if you have a reason (i.e., new grades, published a paper, got on mock trial, etc.).

Overall, its mainly luck. I know for a fact that a buddy of mine did the exact same thing I just listed above (which is exactly what I did as well) but never heard anything back. I did it and got an interview less than 48 hours later. Our grades/experiences/everything was similar. Seriously, its just luck.

Finally, don't get beat down if you don't find a killer 1L position. The market sucks and as firms are crashing, 1L positions are one of the first things to get cut. I hate to break it to you, but you still know very little compared to a 2L (as does a 2L compared to a 3L, a 3L compared to someone finishing bar prep, compared to a first year associated, and on up. The learning curve is huge). If you grab an unpaid judicial internship or a gov't stint -take it with pride, make it yours, and be able to use it during 2L OCI.

[timeandspace11]

Thanks to all who have answered questions. I will be attending UT this fall and am just trying to soak up as much information as possible before school starts. I know I wont I have to worry about some of these questions for awhile, but I figure it cant hurt to ask just so I have an idea of how things work.

1. When would be a good time to buy supplements, if at all? Would it be better to get a feel for the class for a week or so before making a decision?


2. Is is harder for out of state students with no ties to land a job in Texas? Unlicensed I believe you said you were not from Texas so I would especially be interested to hear your opinion. I have heard Houston may be the easiest spot to land a job if you have no ties.


3. Say I may want to work in New York City (although obviously would be fine working in Texas as well), I imagine it would be a good idea to go to the job fair in New York. Should I also try and interview with New York firms at OCI or maybe stick with in state firms to play it safe?

4. Finally what is the general mood of the students in terms of employment prospects in the coming years? Obviously this is a hard question to answer. I have spoken with a few current students and they seem to believe a higher percentage of students are getting the jobs they desire, whether it be big law, public interest ect... but most would obviously also say it is not nearly as good as pre recession times. Any insight on future hiring would be appreciated.


Thanks again for doing this.

[dkb17xzx]

Thanks, utlaw.

Another question - what's the best way to find out whether these small / mid-sized firms are hiring 1L interns for the summer? Call them? Email?


On a side note, this thread turned out to be very informative. To all those who responded (& will respond), thank you.

I can't say for sure, but I think it's best to email them. If you call, you probably won't speak to who you need to speak with. And I seriously doubt they will get your message to the right person concerning that issue. If you were a client, they would. But you're not a client. If you email, you can email the right person as opposed to getting a secretary or something. That's not to say they would answer your email. But if they don't answer your email, you have probably gotten your answer that they are not hiring as of now.

thank you....as always, very helpful.

CSO (at least used to) holds a small firm networking event in the spring. I attended my 1L year, but don't remember it my 2L or 3L. Its entirely possible I just missed the emails. Other than that, I'd go with a combo approach of first finding them using a mix of Martindale and Google. Second, try to find a partner that you have some connection to. If you want to do trademark work, find the guy that handles the firm's trademark stuff. Generally in smaller firms you will see a lot of cross over between people -but still try to find some connection to the guy you are emailing. You want to give him some reason not to immediately hit delete or put you in a folder. Third, follow up if you don't hear anything. In your initial e-mail, say "I will be following up in X weeks" blah blah blah. Then do it. After that, only follow up if you have a reason (i.e., new grades, published a paper, got on mock trial, etc.).

Overall, its mainly luck. I know for a fact that a buddy of mine did the exact same thing I just listed above (which is exactly what I did as well) but never heard anything back. I did it and got an interview less than 48 hours later. Our grades/experiences/everything was similar. Seriously, its just luck.

Finally, don't get beat down if you don't find a killer 1L position. The market sucks and as firms are crashing, 1L positions are one of the first things to get cut. I hate to break it to you, but you still know very little compared to a 2L (as does a 2L compared to a 3L, a 3L compared to someone finishing bar prep, compared to a first year associated, and on up. The learning curve is huge). If you grab an unpaid judicial internship or a gov't stint -take it with pride, make it yours, and be able to use it during 2L OCI.

Thanks Apollo...I'm definitely not expecting paying work 1L summer but I do wanna maximize my chances of getting something meaningful. It's all very mystifying and perplexing, especially ITE. Hopefully it'll all work out for the class of 2016.

[unlicensedpotato]

Thanks to all who have answered questions. I will be attending UT this fall and am just trying to soak up as much information as possible before school starts. I know I wont I have to worry about some of these questions for awhile, but I figure it cant hurt to ask just so I have an idea of how things work.

1. When would be a good time to buy supplements, if at all? Would it be better to get a feel for the class for a week or so before making a decision?


2. Is is harder for out of state students with no ties to land a job in Texas? Unlicensed I believe you said you were not from Texas so I would especially be interested to hear your opinion. I have heard Houston may be the easiest spot to land a job if you have no ties.


3. Say I may want to work in New York City (although obviously would be fine working in Texas as well), I imagine it would be a good idea to go to the job fair in New York. Should I also try and interview with New York firms at OCI or maybe stick with in state firms to play it safe?

1. Definitely at least try supplements. I think they're a big help. You may as well wait and hear what your professors have to say about them, although as I said earlier, I wouldn't listen to them if they recommend not getting one. Depending on the class, I used some supplements more than others. These grades are just too important to not at least get them though.

2. I think it is harder for out of state students with no ties to land a job in Texas. They may worry you don't want to be here long term. I'm not from Texas but I went to a Texas school for undergrad and my SO is here as well, so I don't think I've faced many difficulties. Houston is definitely the easiest place to land a job. It has bigger class sizes and yes, also cares less about ties. I think the most important thing if you have no ties is to come up with a narrative of why you want to be here that you can sell in an interview. If you can, try and work your 1L summer in the city where you would like to be. Lack of ties is nothing you can't overcome and good grades will go a long way. Frankly, I think just being at UT for law school helps to establish ties at least somewhat. The students that will really have trouble getting a TX job would be people not from TX going to out of state law schools.

3. Yes, if you have interest in New York, absolutely do the NY Job Fair. As far as OCI, there were only maybe 5-7 NYC firms at UT OCI (there are a ton at the job fair though) and I think these all were duplicates. So, as long as you do the NY job fair, I guess maybe bid on them at OCI if you want another shot at a screener/CB. But I would just put them a little farther down and certainly focus on TX firms for OCI.

4. I'm not really plugged in enough to the general student body to have any idea.

Hope this helps.

[philosoraptor]

Thanks to all who have answered questions. I will be attending UT this fall and am just trying to soak up as much information as possible before school starts. I know I wont I have to worry about some of these questions for awhile, but I figure it cant hurt to ask just so I have an idea of how things work.

1. When would be a good time to buy supplements, if at all? Would it be better to get a feel for the class for a week or so before making a decision?

My take on supplements might be a little different from the TLS conventional wisdom, but I'll share what worked for me. I think there's no harm in picking up and leafing through a couple used E&Es a few weeks before school starts, if you're bored and have a few bucks to burn. My reasoning is that the more basic law you can get a feel for early on, the less foreign the classes and cases will seem, the more "fluency" you will gain, and the less you will have to memorize at crunch time. The two subjects I tried this with before 1L were torts and contracts, and those were the subjects I felt most comfortable with at exam time (which translated into good grades).

The obvious counterpoint is that every professor is different, and you shouldn't waste time learning complicated stuff that's not going to be tested. Hence, a few caveats: Don't bother memorizing things, just get a feel for the structure of the law. Don't read law stuff at the expense of important activities like going out drinking with your friends and future classmates (seriously). Don't buy hornbooks or commercial outlines (yet), just basic study guides that read easy, like E&Es or the excellent Concepts and Insights series. Don't spend much money on this. Don't try to do it for every class. Finally, don't talk about it with anyone lest you seem like a gunner. The point of reading ahead blindly is not to gun, but to get a sense of what you'll be learning in class.

Every prof is going to be different, and some are notorious for having outside-the-box classes (e.g., Bone for civ pro, Berman for crim, maybe Graglia for con law). But in every contracts class you're going to discuss what a contract is, in every torts class you're going to focus on negligence, and in every property class you're going to cover estates in land. (The other three subjects are dicier.) Everybody's learning styles are going to be different, so if you're curious about the 1L subjects, why not indulge it?

On a related note, for once class starts, I've already posted a list of standard go-to supplements ITT. If your prof recommends one, get it, but don't limit yourself to that. Ignore any prof who forbids supplements -- do what works for you, not them.

2. Is is harder for out of state students with no ties to land a job in Texas? Unlicensed I believe you said you were not from Texas so I would especially be interested to hear your opinion. I have heard Houston may be the easiest spot to land a job if you have no ties.

I got zero callbacks from Texas firms at OCI (not from Texas, no ties). But I didn't really care about Texas, and I'm pretty sure the interviewers picked up on that. As others have said, it's not hard if you care enough to manufacture yourself some ties (e.g., visit Houston and network with some attorneys there); plenty of out-of-staters do this and succeed.

3. Say I may want to work in New York City (although obviously would be fine working in Texas as well), I imagine it would be a good idea to go to the job fair in New York. Should I also try and interview with New York firms at OCI or maybe stick with in state firms to play it safe?

If you want NYC, absolutely go there to interview and bid NYC firms at OCI (if you have the grades). NYC firms tend not to reach deep into the class at UT, but you can't get a job there if you don't try.

4. Finally what is the general mood of the students in terms of employment prospects in the coming years? Obviously this is a hard question to answer. I have spoken with a few current students and they seem to believe a higher percentage of students are getting the jobs they desire, whether it be big law, public interest ect... but most would obviously also say it is not nearly as good as pre recession times. Any insight on future hiring would be appreciated.

Mood seemed pretty good in my class (2013) -- much better than 2011 and somewhat better than 2012. Anecdotally, most of my friends have their first-choice jobs or something close. Regardless, hustle hard, focus on grades, do the 1L CSO events, and start thinking early about how to sell yourself to employers.

[Apollo526]

1. When would be a good time to buy supplements, if at all? Would it be better to get a feel for the class for a week or so before making a decision?

I'm going to say wait and see. Everything depends on the class you get and how that professor teaches it. I think you see a lot of varying opinions as to supplements from upperclassmen based on the professor they had. Another poster mentioned Bone for CivPro, Berman for Crim, and Graglia for ConLaw as being more of the "wild cards" where supplements won't be as useful. I had both Bone and Berman and completely agree -supplements were nearly useless for those classes. I'd also add Sturley for property (we spent more class time on the history of England than we did actually property law. I'd also partially add Steiker for ConLaw, but it may simply have been the supplements I found were more focused on a bar-type approach to ConLaw (think black letter knowing the various tests for gov't regulation) while his class focused more on the specific court cases (part of our test was identifying excerpts from cases and putting down which case, which justice, and whether it was the majority, concurring, or dissenting opinion).

All in all, I don't think supplements are for everyone. Not to mention the cost (think roughly $30-50 depending on where you buy them and in what condition). So my advice is to get your class schedule, try to talk to some students that have had those professors (and not just 1 student, try to get a cross section of experiences), and if you think a supplement might help, try to find it at the library first.

As a side note, I'd recommend the E&E series as well as the "Nutshell" series. Both do a good job of explaining the law instead of simply giving you an outline.

2. Is is harder for out of state students with no ties to land a job in Texas? Unlicensed I believe you said you were not from Texas so I would especially be interested to hear your opinion. I have heard Houston may be the easiest spot to land a job if you have no ties.

Can't offer any personal experience here other than that I've seen a few out of state friends land jobs pretty easily. I do think that most of them ended up in Houston.

3. Say I may want to work in New York City (although obviously would be fine working in Texas as well), I imagine it would be a good idea to go to the job fair in New York. Should I also try and interview with New York firms at OCI or maybe stick with in state firms to play it safe?

What makes you want to work in NYC? If you have experience in the city, I think you'll be fine. Realize that a lot of the firms you see at OCI from out of state may not actually be interviewing though. Instead, many do what they call "resume drops," where you "bid" on the employer and simply submit your resume and sometimes a cover letter. Just FYI.

If you have never spent time living in the city, I'd suggest you research heavily. A big firm salary is still likely around $160k, which won't go nearly as far in NYC as it will in DFW or ATX.

4. Finally what is the general mood of the students in terms of employment prospects in the coming years? Obviously this is a hard question to answer. I have spoken with a few current students and they seem to believe a higher percentage of students are getting the jobs they desire, whether it be big law, public interest ect... but most would obviously also say it is not nearly as good as pre recession times. Any insight on future hiring would be appreciated.

I'm from the class of 2013 and you seem to be spot on - the general consensus is that each year has it better, but nothing near pre-recession times.

[blackmooncreeping]

I really think the best advice regarding when to buy supplements is to wait and see which Prof's you get and then come back to ask. As you can see, and this was also true for me last year, they're useful for some class/prof combos but not for others.

[unlicensedpotato]

All in all, I don't think supplements are for everyone. Not to mention the cost (think roughly $30-50 depending on where you buy them and in what condition). So my advice is to get your class schedule, try to talk to some students that have had those professors (and not just 1 student, try to get a cross section of experiences), and if you think a supplement might help, try to find it at the library first.

Cost should not be a factor when considering purchases that could help boost your law school GPA. It's just too valuable and important to sacrifice.

[timeandspace11]

Thank you unlicensed potato, apollo, blackmooncreeping, and philosoraptor for the answers.

Apollo, to answer your question, I am by no mean sure I want to live in New York. A lot is going to have depend on what type of law I want to practice and grades obviously. I try to read up on what associates post on TLS to see what I may want to do. I am kind of interested in M&A and other corporate stuff and I know NYC is the hub for that kind of thing.

I know somebody wrote New York firms dont go too deep in UT classes. Does anybody know what percentile would make you competitive for NYC big law firms? Im sure there is variation but any help would be appreciated

[StylinNProfilin]

Thank you unlicensed potato, apollo, blackmooncreeping, and philosoraptor for the answers.

Apollo, to answer your question, I am by no mean sure I want to live in New York. A lot is going to have depend on what type of law I want to practice and grades obviously. I try to read up on what associates post on TLS to see what I may want to do. I am kind of interested in M&A and other corporate stuff and I know NYC is the hub for that kind of thing.

I know somebody wrote New York firms dont go too deep in UT classes. Does anybody know what percentile would make you competitive for NYC big law firms? Im sure there is variation but any help would be appreciated

+1 on this. I'm very interested in NYC biglaw as well, spent some time working with clients in NYC, loved it and want to do M&A. But like timeandspace would be perfectly happy landing a Texas job.

Do many UT students attend the NYC job fair?

[unlicensedpotato]

I can't be of much help because I didn't do the NY job fair. You'll have no problem finding 2Ls to ask about it once school starts though. In terms of OCI (and I don't know how this tracks with the job fair), it looks like the staple NY firms (Skadden, Cravath, etc.) will preselect you for an interview if you have around a 3.7-3.9. These are the medians though so they dip lower than that. These are the elite NY firms though. I think people that bid the NY job fair aggressively can probably land a V50/V100 in NY with grades in the top third.

As an aside, the Texas Biglaw gig is actually pretty fantastic compared to New York. I think the universal view is that New York will have more sophisticated work, at least somewhat. But I think their transactional is more focused on financials (which are down) and Texas's is more focused on Energy/O&G (which is up). Also, NY satellites in TX had already paid full market (including raises and bonuses). BB and V&E switched over as of Jan 1 2013 and now pay the same in TX offices as they do in NY. TX has no state income tax and a way lower COL, plus you work fewer hours. This allows you to pay down loans a lot faster which further saves you money from interest. Your effective tax rate in NYC as a first year associate is about 42%.
Bottom line is, I think you'll find more than a few people on TLS who wish they had the ties to land a TX job instead of having to bid NY.

[utlaw2007]

I can't be of much help because I didn't do the NY job fair. You'll have no problem finding 2Ls to ask about it once school starts though. In terms of OCI (and I don't know how this tracks with the job fair), it looks like the staple NY firms (Skadden, Cravath, etc.) will preselect you for an interview if you have around a 3.7-3.9. These are the medians though so they dip lower than that. These are the elite NY firms though. I think people that bid the NY job fair aggressively can probably land a V50/V100 in NY with grades in the top third.

As an aside, the Texas Biglaw gig is actually pretty fantastic compared to New York. I think the universal view is that New York will have more sophisticated work, at least somewhat. But I think their transactional is more focused on financials (which are down) and Texas's is more focused on Energy/O&G (which is up). Also, NY satellites in TX had already paid full market (including raises and bonuses). BB and V&E switched over as of Jan 1 2013 and now pay the same in TX offices as they do in NY. TX has no state income tax and a way lower COL, plus you work fewer hours. This allows you to pay down loans a lot faster which further saves you money from interest. Your effective tax rate in NYC as a first year associate is about 42%.
Bottom line is, I think you'll find more than a few people on TLS who wish they had the ties to land a TX job instead of having to bid NY.

This is the best post I have seen on the comparison between biglaw in Texas vs. every other major market, essentially. And he perfectly illustrates the advantage biglaw in Texas has over biglaw anywhere else, in my opinion.

[Magnifique1908]

Rising 2L here as well. I wanted to weigh in on the out of state student employment question.

I'm not from Texas nor did I attend school in the state for undergrad and I had several 1L SA offers, all in Austin, which is the only market I sought after. While Texas is certainly insular, they just want to make sure that you aren't going to leave after two years. If you have a good reason to be in the city you're interviewing in, just communicate it effectively.

I moved my kid and SO to Austin and had no intentions of leaving them in Austin for twelve weeks or uprooting them again (we moved across the country). I stuck to my guns. CSO thought I was crazy for refusing to set up a backup plan but I didn't care. It worked out for me. I ended up with first and second half firm SA gigs here in Austin and I love it. I'm gearing up to do the same for 2L OCI. YMMV but it is not impossible to snag jobs in Texas even if you are not a native Texan.

[StylinNProfilin]

Rising 2L here as well. I wanted to weigh in on the out of state student employment question.

I'm not from Texas nor did I attend school in the state for undergrad and I had several 1L SA offers, all in Austin, which is the only market I sought after. While Texas is certainly insular, they just want to make sure that you aren't going to leave after two years. If you have a good reason to be in the city you're interviewing in, just communicate it effectively.

I moved my kid and SO to Austin and had no intentions of leaving them in Austin for twelve weeks or uprooting them again (we moved across the country). I stuck to my guns. CSO thought I was crazy for refusing to set up a backup plan but I didn't care. It worked out for me. I ended up with first and second half firm SA gigs here in Austin and I love it. I'm gearing up to do the same for 2L OCI. YMMV but it is not impossible to snag jobs in Texas even if you are not a native Texan.

wow congrats on that! You must have killed 1L, are u IP focused?

[Magnifique1908]

Rising 2L here as well. I wanted to weigh in on the out of state student employment question.

I'm not from Texas nor did I attend school in the state for undergrad and I had several 1L SA offers, all in Austin, which is the only market I sought after. While Texas is certainly insular, they just want to make sure that you aren't going to leave after two years. If you have a good reason to be in the city you're interviewing in, just communicate it effectively.

I moved my kid and SO to Austin and had no intentions of leaving them in Austin for twelve weeks or uprooting them again (we moved across the country). I stuck to my guns. CSO thought I was crazy for refusing to set up a backup plan but I didn't care. It worked out for me. I ended up with first and second half firm SA gigs here in Austin and I love it. I'm gearing up to do the same for 2L OCI. YMMV but it is not impossible to snag jobs in Texas even if you are not a native Texan.

wow congrats on that! You must have killed 1L, are u IP focused?

Noooo! Lol. I did ok, but I certainly wouldn't say killed lol.

I am not IP focused either. I had the grades that would have gotten me into these firms anyway and the rest was just sufficiently selling my reasons for needing to be in Austin.

[StylinNProfilin]

Rising 2L here as well. I wanted to weigh in on the out of state student employment question.

I'm not from Texas nor did I attend school in the state for undergrad and I had several 1L SA offers, all in Austin, which is the only market I sought after. While Texas is certainly insular, they just want to make sure that you aren't going to leave after two years. If you have a good reason to be in the city you're interviewing in, just communicate it effectively.

I moved my kid and SO to Austin and had no intentions of leaving them in Austin for twelve weeks or uprooting them again (we moved across the country). I stuck to my guns. CSO thought I was crazy for refusing to set up a backup plan but I didn't care. It worked out for me. I ended up with first and second half firm SA gigs here in Austin and I love it. I'm gearing up to do the same for 2L OCI. YMMV but it is not impossible to snag jobs in Texas even if you are not a native Texan.

wow congrats on that! You must have killed 1L, are u IP focused?

Noooo! Lol. I did ok, but I certainly wouldn't say killed lol.

I am not IP focused either. I had the grades that would have gotten me into these firms anyway and the rest was just sufficiently selling my reasons for needing to be in Austin.

That's great to hear!

[timeandspace11]

Rising 2L here as well. I wanted to weigh in on the out of state student employment question.

I'm not from Texas nor did I attend school in the state for undergrad and I had several 1L SA offers, all in Austin, which is the only market I sought after. While Texas is certainly insular, they just want to make sure that you aren't going to leave after two years. If you have a good reason to be in the city you're interviewing in, just communicate it effectively.

I moved my kid and SO to Austin and had no intentions of leaving them in Austin for twelve weeks or uprooting them again (we moved across the country). I stuck to my guns. CSO thought I was crazy for refusing to set up a backup plan but I didn't care. It worked out for me. I ended up with first and second half firm SA gigs here in Austin and I love it. I'm gearing up to do the same for 2L OCI. YMMV but it is not impossible to snag jobs in Texas even if you are not a native Texan.

Wow congrats!! Did you have business experience before entering law school?
Also (and this question is for everyone), what are some other ways out of staters can show their desire to remain in Austin?

[Magnifique1908]

Rising 2L here as well. I wanted to weigh in on the out of state student employment question.

I'm not from Texas nor did I attend school in the state for undergrad and I had several 1L SA offers, all in Austin, which is the only market I sought after. While Texas is certainly insular, they just want to make sure that you aren't going to leave after two years. If you have a good reason to be in the city you're interviewing in, just communicate it effectively.

I moved my kid and SO to Austin and had no intentions of leaving them in Austin for twelve weeks or uprooting them again (we moved across the country). I stuck to my guns. CSO thought I was crazy for refusing to set up a backup plan but I didn't care. It worked out for me. I ended up with first and second half firm SA gigs here in Austin and I love it. I'm gearing up to do the same for 2L OCI. YMMV but it is not impossible to snag jobs in Texas even if you are not a native Texan.

Wow congrats!! Did you have business experience before entering law school?
Also (and this question is for everyone), what are some other ways out of staters can show their desire to remain in Austin?

Thanks. I did. I had several years of legal experience (firm and in-house) before coming to law school.

Most of the people that I know that aren't from here that remained in Austin have a SO here. Pretty much all of them. And that SO has some kind of job or career (or attends UT) that keeps them here.

[waterbug]

Thanks for all the good answers!

1. Where are the best places to get old exams?

2. How do you feel about using old outlines and where would you find those?