Stanford 1L taking questions for a bit Forum

[sabrina8740]

Hi - thanks for taking the time to answer questions! I'm wondering if anyone has comments on turning down a fairly big scholarship at another T10 (specifically UVA) in exchange for full debt at Stanford. While Stanford seems like an amazing place to spend three years, I'm really hesitant about taking on an extra $100K+ of debt. I know most people are in the same situation since Stanford doesn't offer merit aid. If you made similar decisions / regret the debt load / think the debt was the right choice, I'd love to hear your rationale.

Thanks!

[Yukos]

Hi - thanks for taking the time to answer questions! I'm wondering if anyone has comments on turning down a fairly big scholarship at another T10 (specifically UVA) in exchange for full debt at Stanford. While Stanford seems like an amazing place to spend three years, I'm really hesitant about taking on an extra $100K+ of debt. I know most people are in the same situation since Stanford doesn't offer merit aid. If you made similar decisions / regret the debt load / think the debt was the right choice, I'd love to hear your rationale.

Thanks!

What do you want to do? Where do you want to work? How much UG debt do you have? This question can't be answered (effectively) in a vacuum. Congrats on having fantastic options, though.

[BalanceCare]

Like Yukos said, it probably depends on your specific goals somewhat. FWIW, many people here have turned down full rides to come to SLS — but that shouldn't mean too much to you because it really depends on what you want. Congrats though!

[thewaves]

Thanks for taking questions, guys. HLS has its own thread, so I'm glad to see you're representing!

1. Can you discuss the 1L SA hiring/1L summer job process in general at SLS and how it works? It sounds like the first summer is very short between when school ends and Fall OCI begins.

2. I know this was discussed already, but is there a link available somewhere for 1Ls to chart which electives are available for Winter? Someone mentioned all electives are open to 1Ls for the Spring quarter.

3. Related to the above: aside from the "foundational" classes, are there certain progressions you recommend to begin 1L year? What are the "heavy-duty" electives we should spread out? And are there people to help guide us when selecting classes?!

4. How many activities did you participate in/recommend?

Thanks again! Don't want to overwhelm you with all my questions at once so I'll stop here for now

[ArtistOfManliness]

Thanks for taking questions, guys. HLS has its own thread, so I'm glad to see you're representing!

1. Can you discuss the 1L SA hiring/1L summer job process in general at SLS and how it works? It sounds like the first summer is very short between when school ends and Fall OCI begins.

Hiring is the same as every other school - mass mail in december/january, do OCI in mid january, and either cross your fingers before grades come out or do well in the fall and cross your fingers a little less. Depending on whether or not you do law review write-on, you have 9 or 10 weeks before OCI starts. Firms know this and are ok with it. If you work in PA, you might be able to work through OCI. If you work outside of PA, you might be able to convince your firm to let you work a few weeks in your firm's PA office.

2. I know this was discussed already, but is there a link available somewhere for 1Ls to chart which electives are available for Winter? Someone mentioned all electives are open to 1Ls for the Spring quarter.

It varies from winter to winter (I assume, as a 1L I havent the slightest idea), but here is this year's.

Save for a few rare exceptions, all electives are open spring quarter.

3. Related to the above: aside from the "foundational" classes, are there certain progressions you recommend to begin 1L year? What are the "heavy-duty" electives we should spread out? And are there people to help guide us when selecting classes?!

No, since I'm a 1L and have no way of knowing if I've already ruined my life with the one elective choice I've made so far.

They do a little talk about curriculum choice and what not, but there is no "adviser" you talk to beyond just word of mouth and talking to profs. 2/3Ls are very helpful, especially when you tell them what think about your career path.

4. How many activities did you participate in/recommend?

It really depends on what you call an "activity." I recommend starting with a couple, and you can always increase later. Nothing can make up for grades, so don't over extend yourself.

Thanks again! Don't want to overwhelm you with all my questions at once so I'll stop here for now

I can go all night - in fact, I'd probably prefer that to the con law/property reading this is letting me prolong starting.

[Yukos]

Agree with everything above. Just would add two things. First, I'm not exactly sure what you meant by "progressions," but there's a set of "heavy-duty" electives that many people take before graduating. This isn't a Stanford thing though, you'll see these electives at every school. Off the top of my head, I can think of: Evidence, Admin, Corps, Fed Courts and maybe 14th Amendment. Many 1Ls take Evidence during winter quarter but it's a lot of work. I'd say people generally avoid these classes spring quarter (you have two more years to take them) but 14th Amendment is fairly popular. Anyway, no real reason to plan out your three years now, what you actually like will almost certainly be different than what you thought you'd like.

Second, I would say for 1Ls the general "activities" roster is a pro bono, a journal and maybe a club (Law & Technology Association, Criminal Law Society, ACS, Fed Soc, etc.). You don't have to do anything though--I know people doing no pro bono and people doing two pro bonos, it's all up to you. I myself am I member of the very influential Jurisbrewdence (beer tasting) club.

[thewaves]

Thanks guys. What's your opinion on the quarter system? Overall plus or minus?

[mac2013]

Hi - thanks for taking the time to answer questions! I'm wondering if anyone has comments on turning down a fairly big scholarship at another T10 (specifically UVA) in exchange for full debt at Stanford. While Stanford seems like an amazing place to spend three years, I'm really hesitant about taking on an extra $100K+ of debt. I know most people are in the same situation since Stanford doesn't offer merit aid. If you made similar decisions / regret the debt load / think the debt was the right choice, I'd love to hear your rationale.

Thanks!

What do you want to do? Where do you want to work? How much UG debt do you have? This question can't be answered (effectively) in a vacuum. Congrats on having fantastic options, though.

i have this situation as well. I have no undergrad debt, but also do not have much savings. I would love to get a federal clerkship then big law in Seattle. Any input would be great! thanks.

[Yukos]

Thanks guys. What's your opinion on the quarter system? Overall plus or minus?

This is our first real quarter (1L fall quarter is basically as long as a semester) and we have two required doctrinals plus LRW part 2, so I don't think any of the 1Ls can give you a great answer. I like that I'm going to be able to take a ton of classes, and full-time clinics sound really cool. It's fast but at least the painful classes are that much shorter.

[Yukos]

Hi - thanks for taking the time to answer questions! I'm wondering if anyone has comments on turning down a fairly big scholarship at another T10 (specifically UVA) in exchange for full debt at Stanford. While Stanford seems like an amazing place to spend three years, I'm really hesitant about taking on an extra $100K+ of debt. I know most people are in the same situation since Stanford doesn't offer merit aid. If you made similar decisions / regret the debt load / think the debt was the right choice, I'd love to hear your rationale.

Thanks!

What do you want to do? Where do you want to work? How much UG debt do you have? This question can't be answered (effectively) in a vacuum. Congrats on having fantastic options, though.

i have this situation as well. I have no undergrad debt, but also do not have much savings. I would love to get a federal clerkship then big law in Seattle. Any input would be great! thanks.

Seattle is a pretty small market and Stanford gets a huge bump for clerkships (28% vs. 14% at UVA) so I think SLS makes a lot of sense for you. Personally the lack of stress for job stuff and the realistic shot at a federal appellate clerkship/big fed makes me very happy that I took the debt, but I totally understand someone with biglaw ambitions taking the money.

[WinterIsHere]

Thanks guys. What's your opinion on the quarter system? Overall plus or minus?

Quarter system is great right now, you get to take more classes in different areas, and more opportunities to get the grades you want. Spring quarter is also all electives except for the legal writing class. That being said, ask again in June after we have been in school for a solid month longer than everyone else.

[chaitealatte]

Hi, thanks so much for answering questions! This is more about my chances for admission (and I know these questions are really annoying, apologies in advance!) I've been reading online in several places that Stanford tends to weigh GPA more than LSAT scores in the application process, but that a new system is being implemented where LSAT scores will count more. I graduated with a 3.7 (just under the 25% for most of the top schools) but I showed a huge improvement during my time as an undergrad (finished freshman year with a 3.0) and I've got a pretty solid LSAT score.

My question- do you have any idea whether Stanford does give more weight to the LSAT now than before? And do you think it makes a difference if an application shows a high level of improvement even if the overall GPA is slightly lower? Any advice would help a lot, thank you!

[WinterIsHere]

Hi, thanks so much for answering questions! This is more about my chances for admission (and I know these questions are really annoying, apologies in advance!) I've been reading online in several places that Stanford tends to weigh GPA more than LSAT scores in the application process, but that a new system is being implemented where LSAT scores will count more. I graduated with a 3.7 (just under the 25% for most of the top schools) but I showed a huge improvement during my time as an undergrad (finished freshman year with a 3.0) and I've got a pretty solid LSAT score.

My question- do you have any idea whether Stanford does give more weight to the LSAT now than before? And do you think it makes a difference if an application shows a high level of improvement even if the overall GPA is slightly lower? Any advice would help a lot, thank you!

My sense is that Stanford admissions tends to be slightly more holistic than other schools (perhaps part of the reason why it takes longer), but LSAT and GPA are still going to be supreme over other considerations. My sense is that LSAT is most important of all, but take that with a grain of salt. GPA will obviously vary by your major and other individual factors, so it's hard to make solid predictions even if we have all this info. I've seen no information of any change this year from any past years in how these two are looked at.

But the thing to keep in mind is that Stanford admissions officers (and admissions officers in other schools) are real people who actually do look at your materials. If you have borderline numbers, showing significant interest may be helpful. It's worth a shot at least, but in the end (if you don't have auto admit numbers) it's part luck, might as well maximize your chances.

[Yukos]

I don't talk to anyone about their GPA/LSATs so I can't give you anymore guidance than LSN will. But I also get the sense, just because everyone here seems to have an awesome background, that softs are very important to admissions. If you're a K-JD and are really gunning for Y/S, I recommend you take a couple years off and try to do something cool in the meantime. Good luck!

[MaxWeber]

^ If you're K-JD you don't have to take time off----you'll just need stellar academic credentials and evidence that you spent your summers well. I'm talking about 3.9+/172+ from Ivy caliber schools with a thesis and summer fellowships doing interesting substantive work (research, volunteering, policy work, consulting/banking, whatever). If you don't fit into the above category, taking time off will diversify your application and take weight away from your #s/UG if those are weak spots.

[MissouriMisery]

Hello! Thanks for taking questions. If the goal is either Northern California PI work (legal aid) or potentially health law in SF (less likely), how much better of a shot do I have from Stanford vs. Berkeley? How much $$ would you need from B to consider it? I'll be ineligible for aid from S and H, and I have no desire to work anywhere but Northern California or maybe the PNW.

Just wanted the perspective of current stanfordians about the market in SF area these days! Thanks in advance!

[MissouriMisery]

Anybody?

[hwannabe1234]

If I send my intent to enroll at other school and withdraw my spot from stanford, could I still visit ASW and get cost reimbursement for the airfare?

THANKS!

[ThinkNegative]

Hello! Thanks for taking questions. If the goal is either Northern California PI work (legal aid) or potentially health law in SF (less likely), how much better of a shot do I have from Stanford vs. Berkeley? How much $$ would you need from B to consider it? I'll be ineligible for aid from S and H, and I have no desire to work anywhere but Northern California or maybe the PNW.

Just wanted the perspective of current stanfordians about the market in SF area these days! Thanks in advance!

Hi MM, sorry I don't have anything to offer in the way of comparative informatiom, but as a current SLS student I feel bad leaving you hanging. (We're in the middle of exams right now so the handful of SLS'ers on this board aren't very present.)

To be honest, though, your question sounds like a tough one to answer. Any S student will have only his own perspective and same for B, barring a lot of anecdotal information.

I can tell you that people here seem to have no trouble getting jobs in legal aid or PI-related policy, especially in the bay area. Looking at our bank of PI internship evaluations (done by students after their summer gigs end)" i see that many students have interned at legal aid in Oakland, SF, and environs every summer (as well as in TX, NY, and other parts of the country). I don't really know anything about post-grad hiring though — I imagine that if there are jobs to be had you'd be as well positioned to get them from S as from anywhere. But I know that tells you nothing about Boalt, which I would imagine also has great connections with PI organizations in the bay. Hope that helps though! Good luck

[WinterIsHere]

If I send my intent to enroll at other school and withdraw my spot from stanford, could I still visit ASW and get cost reimbursement for the airfare?

THANKS!

Wait. Let's get this straight. You're not going to go to Stanford . . . and you plan to withdraw your acceptance . . . but go to ASW anyway, after you've already withdrawn?

Why would they ever reimburse you for that? Because you're an extra special snowflake?

[thewaves]

Any specific advice you could give to 0Ls preparing to go to SLS? Not sure if there's anything specific to Stanford but wanted to throw the question out there. Thanks!

[Trustbuster]

If I send my intent to enroll at other school and withdraw my spot from stanford, could I still visit ASW and get cost reimbursement for the airfare?

THANKS!

I'll tell on you if you do this.

[WinterIsHere]

Any specific advice you could give to 0Ls preparing to go to SLS? Not sure if there's anything specific to Stanford but wanted to throw the question out there. Thanks!

1) Come to ASW if you can. Get info on housing and scope out a roommate, if you're in that situation.
2) Relax. Do nothing for as long as possible, or do something you enjoy. First quarter is killer.
3) Read Getting to Maybe late in the summer. It's an easy read and gives you an idea of what to keep in mind when you start studying.

[ThinkNegative]

Any specific advice you could give to 0Ls preparing to go to SLS? Not sure if there's anything specific to Stanford but wanted to throw the question out there. Thanks!

1) Come to ASW if you can. Get info on housing and scope out a roommate, if you're in that situation.
2) Relax. Do nothing for as long as possible, or do something you enjoy. First quarter is killer.
3) Read Getting to Maybe late in the summer. It's an easy read and gives you an idea of what to keep in mind when you start studying.

Welcome! I take it you're decided — good call, you'll love it here. Just do all that Winter said. (If you feel like you're not "getting" the GTM book, don't worry. For me at least, it didn't *really* start to make sense until the 3rd time I referred to it — *after* getting my 1st quarter grades and going through my exams. Familiarizing yourself with it in advance will be helpful though.)

[Yukos]

Glad to see some more SLS students in here, I've been busy with finals. I just want to say I read GTM right before starting and it was a big help (even though I didn't understand any of the doctrinal stuff). It really helped me figure out what profs wanted to see.