Columbia students taking questions Forum

[Nebby]

Pipe dream is not the right phrase, but a COA clerkship is not going to be achievable for most law students at any law school. "Doing well in school" is of course a worthy goal, but at both Duke and CLS that's far from a foregone conclusion as an 0L. People should never measure where they attend law school based on the chances of an outcome that will only be available to them if they perform very well in the class. Nor should they place undue weight on what happens if they landed at the bottom (although this should be considered as downside risk). They should look instead to what's available to people in the middle quadrants of the class.

That makes a lot of sense. Do you propose that Duke median and CLS median grads have similar outcomes?

For biglaw, yes (mostly). Some v10 firms may dig deeper into CLS' bench than Duke, but they're largely the same. CLS has a slight advantage but that advantage is overtaken with a better scholarship at Duke

[jbagelboy]

Pipe dream is not the right phrase, but a COA clerkship is not going to be achievable for most law students at any law school. "Doing well in school" is of course a worthy goal, but at both Duke and CLS that's far from a foregone conclusion as an 0L. People should never measure where they attend law school based on the chances of an outcome that will only be available to them if they perform very well in the class. Nor should they place undue weight on what happens if they landed at the bottom (although this should be considered as downside risk). They should look instead to what's available to people in the middle quadrants of the class.

That makes a lot of sense. Do you propose that Duke median and CLS median grads have similar outcomes?

That's a good question. The short answer is no for the individual but maybe in the aggregate. I'd venture that the Columbia graduates will land at firms that style themselves as slightly more selective/prestigious due to a number of factors, mainly, that Columbia's curve with only 4 letter grades is gentler so the "median" is more bloated; that more Columbia graduates will land in New York than Duke grads; and those New York firms tend to not be picky when looking at a Columbia transcript (with only a few exceptions) but might apply a cutoff for Duke. But I don't think that suggests materially different outcomes, and it's perfectly possible that the median CLS and median Duke grad will have identical career trajectories.

eta: basically scooped by nebby

[rustyburger2]

Anyone have Professor Bermann for transnational litigation and/or arbitration? If so, any idea if he puts policy questions on his exams or are they just fact patterns?

[doctorjuris]

How do most people satisfy their minor writing credit? Is there a list of which seminars will have a paper as part of the course that will satisfy the requirement?

[Nebby]

How do most people satisfy their minor writing credit? Is there a list of which seminars will have a paper as part of the course that will satisfy the requirement?

The seminar says whether it is a final exam or paper requirement when you search via http://www.law.columbia.edu/courses/search

[badlefthook]

Is there a consensus as far as student housing options vs. just looking for an apartment near campus?

[Nebby]

Is there a consensus as far as student housing options vs. just looking for an apartment near campus?

No. It's too idiosyncratic of a decision for most

[badlefthook]

Is there a consensus as far as student housing options vs. just looking for an apartment near campus?

No. It's too idiosyncratic of a decision for most

Gotcha. Just trying to understand the costs/benefits of going with either option

[Nebby]

Is there a consensus as far as student housing options vs. just looking for an apartment near campus?

No. It's too idiosyncratic of a decision for most

Gotcha. Just trying to understand the costs/benefits of going with either option

You ever used craigslist to find roommates/place to live before?

[TheKisSquared]

Is there a consensus as far as student housing options vs. just looking for an apartment near campus?

No. It's too idiosyncratic of a decision for most

Disagree - UAH is miles better than local apartments unless you need something very specific. Cheaper, more flexible, better management, and close to campus. I broke my lease and still got my deposit back by just talking with the housing office, you can switch rooms relatively easily, and maintenance staff were responsive.
I moved off campus because my SO and I wanted a 2 BR to ourselves, which Columbia won't give you. We pay out the nose for it, and I can't really recommend it unless you have outside financial support. There are couples housing options if we'd been willing to settle for 1BRs (in fact smeone I know has a 1BR with a den through UAH)
Obviously go off campus if you'd prefer to commute from a more popular or significantly cheaper part of town, though if you factor in transportation time and $, I still think UAH is the better deal.

[Nebby]

Is there a consensus as far as student housing options vs. just looking for an apartment near campus?

No. It's too idiosyncratic of a decision for most

Disagree - UAH is miles better than local apartments unless you need something very specific. Cheaper, more flexible, better management, and close to campus. I broke my lease and still got my deposit back by just talking with the housing office, you can switch rooms relatively easily, and maintenance staff were responsive.
I moved off campus because my SO and I wanted a 2 BR to ourselves, which Columbia won't give you. We pay out the nose for it, and I can't really recommend it unless you have outside financial support. There are couples housing options if we'd been willing to settle for 1BRs (in fact smeone I know has a 1BR with a den through UAH)
Obviously go off campus if you'd prefer to commute from a more popular or significantly cheaper part of town, though if you factor in transportation time and $, I still think UAH is the better deal.

The two off campus places I had were cheaper than UAH and flexible (month to month). As I said, it's too idiosyncratic to make a blanket statement. You and I were looking for vastly different things and as a result had different outcomes

[skigirl3136]

How does the security deposit work on student housing? Do we have to pay one and if so how much is it? Is it the kind of thing where you write them a check that they don't cash or does the money actually come out of your first year budget?

[GoneSouth]

A few things in favor of UAH over something else is that they are very lenient about late rent, like literally you can be months behind and they don't really do anything, and it's possible to move to a different place if for some reason you don't like your first one.

[GreenEggs]

A few things in favor of UAH over something else is that they are very lenient about late rent, like literally you can be months behind and they don't really do anything, and it's possible to move to a different place if for some reason you don't like your first one.

Yeah I don't think it's too idiosyncratic, UAH is by far the best option. Sure there are some exceptions, but that doesn't mean it's idiosyncratic.

You can be months behind on rent with no late fees or penalties, you can kind of break your lease whenever you want, CU is pretty good at fixing things quickly, and it's just convenient because you know what you're getting

[minkbrigade]

Graded research is the same as any other class. It's kinda a bullshit cop out tho. When I did mien I did it ungraded.

Meh, if a professor tells you that you should do it graded you don't turn him down unless you think he'll give a bad grade. Also not sure why it would ever make sense to do it for credit if the prof is willing to give a grade and you think it will be a good one. Just so you can feel like you didn't get a BS grade? Seems silly.

I did it ungraded and for pay every time. For my note, I had to do it for credit, but I did it ungraded. Don't do graded unless you're super tight with the prof (like maybe as a 3L); I know that people have received surprise B+'s from note advisors on supervised research. Don't assume an A unless you're explicitly told you can.

Is it common (or accessible, if you seek it out) to do research for pay for a professor? If so, what sort of a time commitment is it? I know I'm getting a bit ahead of myself here, but would love to have even a few hours a week of work and some money coming in after 1L.

[texcellence]

If I live in Harlem and have to cross Morningside Park every day am I going to want to kill myself or will I revel in my newly extra-ripped thigh muscles?

[GoneSouth]

Graded research is the same as any other class. It's kinda a bullshit cop out tho. When I did mien I did it ungraded.

Meh, if a professor tells you that you should do it graded you don't turn him down unless you think he'll give a bad grade. Also not sure why it would ever make sense to do it for credit if the prof is willing to give a grade and you think it will be a good one. Just so you can feel like you didn't get a BS grade? Seems silly.

I did it ungraded and for pay every time. For my note, I had to do it for credit, but I did it ungraded. Don't do graded unless you're super tight with the prof (like maybe as a 3L); I know that people have received surprise B+'s from note advisors on supervised research. Don't assume an A unless you're explicitly told you can.

Is it common (or accessible, if you seek it out) to do research for pay for a professor? If so, what sort of a time commitment is it? I know I'm getting a bit ahead of myself here, but would love to have even a few hours a week of work and some money coming in after 1L.

If you want to do paid research, you can almost certainly find it. Tons of professors have paid RAs. Time commitments vary widely by professor. You can even do it 1L if you want.

[Nebby]

If I live in Harlem and have to cross Morningside Park every day am I going to want to kill myself or will I revel in my newly extra-ripped thigh muscles?

It's not that bad. I made that walk for two years.

[texcellence]

If I live in Harlem and have to cross Morningside Park every day am I going to want to kill myself or will I revel in my newly extra-ripped thigh muscles?

It's not that bad. I made that walk for two years.

Nebby, what's the farthest east and/or north you'd live? I'm looking at a place by 119th & Malcolm X Blvd. Google says 18 minute walk. Doesn't seem too bad.

[Nebby]

If I live in Harlem and have to cross Morningside Park every day am I going to want to kill myself or will I revel in my newly extra-ripped thigh muscles?

It's not that bad. I made that walk for two years.

Nebby, what's the farthest east and/or north you'd live? I'm looking at a place by 119th & Malcolm X Blvd. Google says 18 minute walk. Doesn't seem too bad.

For walking purposes, I wouldn't live past Malcolm X (locals call it Lenox Ave or 6th Ave). I wouldn't live further north than 125th Street. Anything further north than 125th or east of 6th Ave would result in a walk over 20 minutes, which can be a little brutal if its sunny and above 85 degrees.

I lived at 113th and 6th Ave (so just six blocks south of where you're looking at) and I also lived at 112th and 7th Ave (7th Ave = Adam Clayton Powell Blvd) Both were about 15 to 18 minutes of a walk (weather would determine how fast or slow I walked; faster on cold days and slower on hot days).

[jrc223]

Does anyone know if graduating 3Ls are graded on a separate curve than other students in the same class?

[dabigchina]

Does anyone know if graduating 3Ls are graded on a separate curve than other students in the same class?

They get graded first but I don't think they are graded on a separate curve. I think professors are told to try to place their exams on the normal curve.

[FascinatedWanderer]

Some professors do grade on a separate curve because for many exams 3L grades are due before many 2Ls have even taken the exam.

[maroon175]

ugh, no. I was counting on all the 3LS who never showed up to class to help the curve in my class.

On an unrelated note.. could anyone speak to the negotiation final paper? What do you have to talk about to get an A?

[White Dwarf]

Same. I'm in a class with 27 3Ls/LLMs, and 8 2Ls.

The final was yesterday though, so hopefully the professor will have the time to put us all on the same curve.