Columbia students taking questions Forum

[Dr_OIT]

Current students: I know this is really subjective, but is there anything you'd change about your CLS experience that is specific to CLS and not a general law school annoyance? Thanks!

[Dr_OIT]

Hi all - Accepted student and very likely incoming 1L here (still waiting on some other responses, but CLS was my #1). Another question about housing...

I've been living in NYC for a few years now but pretty far away from Columbia, so I'm planning on moving. Would you recommend taking advantage of the guaranteed housing, or would it be worth it to look for off-campus housing nearby, since I have the time (if not the motivation) to do an apartment search? I figure the pros for CLS housing include cheaper relative rent (is this corroborated?), proximity to JG, and (maybe?) a greater sense of community -- but the con is being unable to meet potential roommates or see/choose the apartment in advance. I guess I'm just a bit wary about jumping in blind...

And for those who do choose CLS housing, would you recommend going with law school-only or general UAH? I'm thinking the 400 block, with Lionsgate as a second preference. Would love to be PM'ed photos too, if possible!

Thanks everyone for all your advice on the thread, by the way! So helpful!

UAH is the better deal in my opinion.

If you're familiar with the area and want something outside of law school/UAH housing Harlem is probably the best option. Don't know much about Washington Heights and other areas north. South I really doubt you'll get anything nearly as cheap.

Don't be like me. Go UAH. I have literally never met anybody who was glad he/she went with law school housing on the 400 block. Most people stay because of inertia but most people are also at least somewhat dissatisfied.

Thanks for the advice! On the flip side, have you ever met anyone unhappy with UAH?

(Guess my LSAT-saturated mind can't get rid of necessary/sufficient thinking )

[dabigchina]

Hi all - Accepted student and very likely incoming 1L here (still waiting on some other responses, but CLS was my #1). Another question about housing...

I've been living in NYC for a few years now but pretty far away from Columbia, so I'm planning on moving. Would you recommend taking advantage of the guaranteed housing, or would it be worth it to look for off-campus housing nearby, since I have the time (if not the motivation) to do an apartment search? I figure the pros for CLS housing include cheaper relative rent (is this corroborated?), proximity to JG, and (maybe?) a greater sense of community -- but the con is being unable to meet potential roommates or see/choose the apartment in advance. I guess I'm just a bit wary about jumping in blind...

And for those who do choose CLS housing, would you recommend going with law school-only or general UAH? I'm thinking the 400 block, with Lionsgate as a second preference. Would love to be PM'ed photos too, if possible!

Thanks everyone for all your advice on the thread, by the way! So helpful!

UAH is the better deal in my opinion.

If you're familiar with the area and want something outside of law school/UAH housing Harlem is probably the best option. Don't know much about Washington Heights and other areas north. South I really doubt you'll get anything nearly as cheap.

Don't be like me. Go UAH. I have literally never met anybody who was glad he/she went with law school housing on the 400 block. Most people stay because of inertia but most people are also at least somewhat dissatisfied.

Thanks for the advice! On the flip side, have you ever met anyone unhappy with UAH?

(Guess my LSAT-saturated mind can't get rid of necessary/sufficient thinking )

The biggest complaint I have ever heard is "my roommate's room is bigger." Note this person's room is still bigger than my room and he is still paying 200 less per month than me.

[almondjoy]

Current students: I know this is really subjective, but is there anything you'd change about your CLS experience that is specific to CLS and not a general law school annoyance? Thanks!

CLS's classroom A/V sucks

[RSN]

Current students: I know this is really subjective, but is there anything you'd change about your CLS experience that is specific to CLS and not a general law school annoyance? Thanks!

I mean there are some things, but I'm not sure I understand the point of the question unless you're looking for a reason not to go here. To answer what I think your real question is, nothing annoying or frustrating I've experienced here has changed my opinion that I made the right choice of school.

[FascinatedWanderer]

The clerkship program is an embarrassment.

[dabigchina]

Current students: I know this is really subjective, but is there anything you'd change about your CLS experience that is specific to CLS and not a general law school annoyance? Thanks!

things that I wish I had known about:

1. 40 hour pro bono requirement just to graduate: I get that NY has a 50 hour requirement. For those of us who will not be working in NY after graduation this is a gigantic waste of time. Pro bono is obviously a worthy endeavor. However, forcing people to volunteer sort of goes against what pro bono should be (at least in my view)
2. Major and minor writing requirement: CLS makes you write a note to graduate. This might not seem like a big deal but finding a note advisor and topic are kind of a hassle.
3. General administrative incompetence: This is probably not unique to CLS but the admin is pretty bad. I had a hell of a time trying to find information regarding cross registration. When I ask our student services people they literally shrugged and told me they had no idea. When they fucked up my tax withholding for my Guaranteed Summer Funding they refused to issue a corrected W2. To add insult to injury, the law school seems to love hiring "deans" and "directors" who have roles that nobody seems to be able to articulate. Case in point: we just spent 8-9 months searching for a "Dean of Students." To this day I have no idea what exactly the dean of students is supposed to do. I'm sure it doesn't materially affect my life either way, but it's frustrating to see the administration circle jerk over shit like this when they can't even perform the most basic tasks.
4. Climate control: For some reason, every room in the building is either steaming hot or freezing cold all the time.

Edited for clarity.

[jbagelboy]

Current students: I know this is really subjective, but is there anything you'd change about your CLS experience that is specific to CLS and not a general law school annoyance? Thanks!

things that I wish I had known about:

1. 40 hour pro bono requirement just to graduate. I get that NY has a 50 hour requirement. For those of us who will not be working in NY after graduation this is a gigantic waste of time. Pro bono is obviously a worthy endeavor. Forcing people to volunteer sort of goes against what pro bono should be (at least in my view)
2. Major and minor writing requirement. CLS makes you write a note to graduate. This might not seem like a big deal but finding a note advisor and top are kind of a hassle.
3. General administrative incompetence. This is probably not unique to CLS but the admin is pretty bad. I had a hell of a time trying to find information regarding cross registration. When I ask our student services people they literally shrugged and told me they had no idea. When they fucked up my tax withholding for my Guaranteed Summer Funding they refused to issue a corrected W2. To add insult to injury, the law school seems to love hiring "deans" and "directors" who have roles that nobody seems to be able to articulate. Case in point: we just spent 8-9 months searching for a "Dean of Students." To this day I have no idea what exactly the dean of students is supposed to do.

3. is bad, but its not unique. Similar schools have comparable issues.

I disagree with 1. and 2. Also neither is specific to CLS.

[dabigchina]

Current students: I know this is really subjective, but is there anything you'd change about your CLS experience that is specific to CLS and not a general law school annoyance? Thanks!

things that I wish I had known about:

1. 40 hour pro bono requirement just to graduate. I get that NY has a 50 hour requirement. For those of us who will not be working in NY after graduation this is a gigantic waste of time. Pro bono is obviously a worthy endeavor. Forcing people to volunteer sort of goes against what pro bono should be (at least in my view)
2. Major and minor writing requirement. CLS makes you write a note to graduate. This might not seem like a big deal but finding a note advisor and top are kind of a hassle.
3. General administrative incompetence. This is probably not unique to CLS but the admin is pretty bad. I had a hell of a time trying to find information regarding cross registration. When I ask our student services people they literally shrugged and told me they had no idea. When they fucked up my tax withholding for my Guaranteed Summer Funding they refused to issue a corrected W2. To add insult to injury, the law school seems to love hiring "deans" and "directors" who have roles that nobody seems to be able to articulate. Case in point: we just spent 8-9 months searching for a "Dean of Students." To this day I have no idea what exactly the dean of students is supposed to do.

3. is bad, but its not unique. Similar schools have comparable issues.

I disagree with 1. and 2. Also neither is specific to CLS.

1. I can't find another school with a pro bono requirement to graduate. Granted I only looked at UVA, Michigan, and Chicago. Maybe NYU has one but I couldn't find their graduation requirements page.
2. The schools I checked seem to either make you do something akin to the major writing requirement OR the minor writing requirement. I don't see any schools that make you have both the way CLS makes you.

[Tiago Splitter]

Yeah CLS has a ton of horrifyingly useless administrative personnel but hey it's higher education. Useless, overpaid profs too but again, cost of doing business.

The writing requirement does not mean you have to write a note. Just two classes with papers.

[Nebby]

So basically dabigchina was saddened to learn he would be required to expend effort to graduate law school

[dabigchina]

So basically dabigchina was saddened to learn he would be required to expend effort to graduate law school

I mean yah. I was promised 3LOL and I shall have 3LOL.

[Nebby]

So basically dabigchina was saddened to learn he would be required to expend effort to graduate law school

I mean yah. I was promised 3LOL and I shall have 3LOL.

I banged everything out in 2L for precisely that reason

[FastRun]

The clerkship program is an embarrassment.

At least the administration is generally aware of this. We'll see if the changes they've been implementing are effective or not.

[FastRun]

Thanks for the advice! On the flip side, have you ever met anyone unhappy with UAH?

(Guess my LSAT-saturated mind can't get rid of necessary/sufficient thinking )

The biggest complaint I have ever heard is "my roommate's room is bigger." Note this person's room is still bigger than my room and he is still paying 200 less per month than me.

The price difference between UAH and law school housing also reflects a difference in amenities. UAH buildings are generally older/less recently renovated, no doormen or building services, no in-building amenities like gyms/lobbies/print centers, etc. If those things are important to you for some reason and you're willing to pay for them, consider law school housing. If you couldn't care less, save the money and go UAH.

[Nebby]

The clerkship program is an embarrassment.

At least the administration is generally aware of this. We'll see if the changes they've been implementing are effective or not.

I think I agree that this is where CLS fails the hardest. Institutional support is lacking and CLS would be wise to learn how other top schools create pipeline programs that can funnel top students into clerkships. Any student who gets at least two semesters of Stone would have a great shot at non-competitive districts and COAs with proper backing of professors with connections.

[FascinatedWanderer]

The clerkship program is an embarrassment.

At least the administration is generally aware of this. We'll see if the changes they've been implementing are effective or not.

I think I agree that this is where CLS fails the hardest. Institutional support is lacking and CLS would be wise to learn how other top schools create pipeline programs that can funnel top students into clerkships. Any student who gets at least two semesters of Stone would have a great shot at non-competitive districts and COAs with proper backing of professors with connections.

That's a pipe dream. I was mid Kent 1L and I struggled to get a clerkship.

[Nebby]

The clerkship program is an embarrassment.

At least the administration is generally aware of this. We'll see if the changes they've been implementing are effective or not.

I think I agree that this is where CLS fails the hardest. Institutional support is lacking and CLS would be wise to learn how other top schools create pipeline programs that can funnel top students into clerkships. Any student who gets at least two semesters of Stone would have a great shot at non-competitive districts and COAs with proper backing of professors with connections.

That's a pipe dream. I was mid Kent 1L and I struggled to get a clerkship.

What were things you think could have been better? You can probably help us think of some solutions. Most of us here were never interested in a clerkship so we're definitely grasping at straws somewhat.

[Dr_OIT]

The clerkship program is an embarrassment.

At least the administration is generally aware of this. We'll see if the changes they've been implementing are effective or not.

I think I agree that this is where CLS fails the hardest. Institutional support is lacking and CLS would be wise to learn how other top schools create pipeline programs that can funnel top students into clerkships. Any student who gets at least two semesters of Stone would have a great shot at non-competitive districts and COAs with proper backing of professors with connections.

That's a pipe dream. I was mid Kent 1L and I struggled to get a clerkship.

What were things you think could have been better? You can probably help us think of some solutions. Most of us here were never interested in a clerkship so we're definitely grasping at straws somewhat.

I'm taking it as a good sign if most of you are hard-pressed to think of major flaws at CLS! I think I can live with subpar AV equipment...

Someone mentioned to me that they wish there were more opportunities for experiential/practical courses... But I feel like CLS has a ton more externships/clinics than most schools, other than HYS?

[stoopkid13]

The minor writing requirement isn't even really a requirement though. Almost all seminars give automatic minor writing credit. You also don't need to write a note for major writing credit; you can revise a seminar paper and have that count as your major writing credit.

I think you are right that most schools do not have pro bono requirements to graduate. But Penn requires 70 hours and Harvard requires 50 hours, so CLS's 40 hour requirement isn't super unusual.

[almondjoy]

The clerkship program is an embarrassment.

At least the administration is generally aware of this. We'll see if the changes they've been implementing are effective or not.

I think I agree that this is where CLS fails the hardest. Institutional support is lacking and CLS would be wise to learn how other top schools create pipeline programs that can funnel top students into clerkships. Any student who gets at least two semesters of Stone would have a great shot at non-competitive districts and COAs with proper backing of professors with connections.

That's a pipe dream. I was mid Kent 1L and I struggled to get a clerkship.

What were things you think could have been better? You can probably help us think of some solutions. Most of us here were never interested in a clerkship so we're definitely grasping at straws somewhat.

I'm taking it as a good sign if most of you are hard-pressed to think of major flaws at CLS! I think I can live with subpar AV equipment...

Someone mentioned to me that they wish there were more opportunities for experiential/practical courses... But I feel like CLS has a ton more externships/clinics than most schools, other than HYS?

The clinics are hit and miss in my experience. Some I hear are fantastic, and really allow you to do substantive legal work face to face with real clients. Others...not so much. As for practical courses, the only one I've taken is an M&A deal workshop class, which basically consists of a semester-long mock M&A deal where each week you do assignments similar to what actual lawyers would do on a real deal. Pretty cool class.

[Nebby]

[
Someone mentioned to me that they wish there were more opportunities for experiential/practical courses... But I feel like CLS has a ton more externships/clinics than most schools, other than HYS?

The clinics are hit and miss in my experience. Some I hear are fantastic, and really allow you to do substantive legal work face to face with real clients. Others...not so much. As for practical courses, the only one I've taken is an M&A deal workshop class, which basically consists of a semester-long mock M&A deal where each week you do assignments similar to what actual lawyers would do on a real deal. Pretty cool class.

If you're looking for other anecdotes, DRIOT, I did the seminar "Advocacy in Theory and Practice" with Kurtz, and it has an optional fieldwork component where you intern part time at any legal organization that will let you and you earn 3 credit hours for the fieldwork. I interned at an impact litigation nonprofit.

I also did the DC Externship program, where you spend a whole semester externing full-time in Bigfed in Washington and you earn about 15 credit hours.

[ss12345]

Has anyone done the low wage worker externship at legal aid? Considering applying for next semester and there are no lawnet reviews.

[Dr_OIT]

[
Someone mentioned to me that they wish there were more opportunities for experiential/practical courses... But I feel like CLS has a ton more externships/clinics than most schools, other than HYS?

The clinics are hit and miss in my experience. Some I hear are fantastic, and really allow you to do substantive legal work face to face with real clients. Others...not so much. As for practical courses, the only one I've taken is an M&A deal workshop class, which basically consists of a semester-long mock M&A deal where each week you do assignments similar to what actual lawyers would do on a real deal. Pretty cool class.

If you're looking for other anecdotes, DRIOT, I did the seminar "Advocacy in Theory and Practice" with Kurtz, and it has an optional fieldwork component where you intern part time at any legal organization that will let you and you earn 3 credit hours for the fieldwork. I interned at an impact litigation nonprofit.

I also did the DC Externship program, where you spend a whole semester externing full-time in Bigfed in Washington and you earn about 15 credit hours.

Yes, I'd love anecdotes! Thanks for these.

I was considering the Gender & Sexuality Law Clinic, if anyone knows anything about that one.

[HarvardHopeful95]

Hey guys, a quick but extremely pressing question here.
I am going to be a 1L at Columbia in the fall. My boyfriend and I are moving to NYC together, however, we do not qualify for couples housing. Would it be possible for me to apply for a one bedroom or studio apartment and just have my boyfriend live with me? Do other students do this? Any answers would be extremely appreciated.