Columbia students taking questions Forum

[RSN]

Also the feeders ranking thread is interesting background/context on some of this for any 0Ls or others interested who haven't seen it: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 4&t=265908

[FascinatedWanderer]

Also the feeders ranking thread is interesting background/context on some of this for any 0Ls or others interested who haven't seen it: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 4&t=265908

PM me if you want. This thread isn't the place for the information that leads me to believe what I believe.

[derekne]

What are y'all even arguing about? Aren't we all in agreement that the clerkship support is lacking?

Yeah, but this guy's trying to say that some of his conservative dream judges hate Columbia, and while our resources might be less than they could be, the claim that it's animus-based is hard to believe without evidence.

Maybe saying our crappy clerkship office is solely responsible for these judges not hiring CLS grads is hyperbolic, but his experience is valid IMO. If conservative judges don't like hiring from us for whatever reason, that's a valid thing to consider for 0Ls who might be interested in something like that.

eta: sort of scooped by bagel.

I don't think its that they don't like CLS grads. I think its probably, as RSN noted, a small of CLS students who fit the bill coupled with a lack of sufficiently prominent recommenders compared to other schools,(it could also be that for whatever reason none of the conservative faculty members like going to bat for students which would put the clerkship office more at fault).

I'm frankly not interested in the why. It's impossible for anyone to say unless he is Kavanaugh or one of his clerks. The outcomes are what they are.

I'm sure the theory carries some weight, but just to observe some factors that cut against "it's just the conservative judges" --

1) Conservative judges don't necessarily screen for conservative clerks. Compare say, Kavanaugh and Wilkinson versus Sutton and Pryor.
2) Columbia can't be meaningfully more liberal than H,Y,S,N,M,P or B (i.e. any school not Chicago or Virginia).
3) From the Handbook posted above, the school seems to punch below its weight for non-conservative judges too (other than the "hometown" judges).

1) Sure, but most students who are not at least fairly conservative are probably not going to target Kavanaugh and Wilkinson either.
2) Maybe not, but like I said, I doubt NYU, Michigan, Penn, Boalt are sending that many more students to conservative feeders than CLS, though I'd love to see data. HYS is a whole different story, and I don't think anyone's suggesting they are or should be comparable in clerkship hiring.
3) I think everyone here agrees on that, we're just particularly reacting to this one guy whose argument that prominent conservative judges have some bias against Columbia seemed more like personal grievance than anything else, and has yet to refute that.

2. I think you could make an argument that the clerkship pool at CLS is more liberal than other peer schools. This is purely anecdotal but during ASW I met 8 other conservatives. Every one of them exclusively wanted to do Big Law Corporate work,(either M&A or Capital Markets). All of us brought up the fact that CLS is #1 in BigLaw placement as a main reason,(along with ranking, liking NYC/Columbia), why we're choosing to attend. Could suggest that a lot of the conservatives at CLS do transactionl law and go straight to law firms. DOn't know if that's true or not.

[FascinatedWanderer]

I've now said, either in this thread or via PM, pretty much everything I have to say on the topic. Y'all can make your own judgments now.

[FascinatedWanderer]

Just one last thing- if people do some digging on what's been going on with our placements with Judge Howell, you'll get a sense of where things are.

[GoneSouth]

Obviously it's hard to compare CLS's clerkship office with others because I only had experience with CLS, but beyond the stuff other posters mentioned, I never got the feeling that they were very plugged-in with judges and had a good idea of who was hiring and when. Both among feeders and non-feeders. Made it hard to try to strategically target professor calls. Also, even when they did know that certain desirable judges were hiring, they didn't do a great job of proactively reaching out to students who might be competitive for those spots to let them know. You only got that info if you happened to come talk to them at the right time.

I don't know if other schools handle this better, but I have a feeling they might.

[Thelaw23]

So which CLS students/alumni were able to receive fed clerkships while in CLS? It would be great if I could PM them when I'm going through the process as all this talk is scaring me.

From what I understand, though, I should just focus on killing it during 1L, right? Should I be targeting to create connections with certain faculty/professors that will be extra-helpful in giving me letters of recs and making calls for me?

[jjcorvino]

Hey everyone, I know that this question has been asked, but it was a few years ago and I want to be sure that I have the right information. If I attend CLS, I will be living with my soon to be wife and a medium sized dog (40 lbs). I heard that as long as apartments are unfurnished, that pets are generally allowed. Are any of the housing options better than others for my situation?

[GoneSouth]

So which CLS students/alumni were able to receive fed clerkships while in CLS? It would be great if I could PM them when I'm going through the process as all this talk is scaring me.

From what I understand, though, I should just focus on killing it during 1L, right? Should I be targeting to create connections with certain faculty/professors that will be extra-helpful in giving me letters of recs and making calls for me?

Assuming you're a 0L, get good grades first semester and then you can start thinking about it. But wouldn't hurt to try to build relationships with your 1L profs.

[Thelaw23]

Hey everyone, I know that this question has been asked, but it was a few years ago and I want to be sure that I have the right information. If I attend CLS, I will be living with my soon to be wife and a medium sized dog (40 lbs). I heard that as long as apartments are unfurnished, that pets are generally allowed. Are any of the housing options better than others for my situation?

Can I play with your dog during finals week?

[texcellence]

.

[stoopkid13]

Do you all think that part of CLS's poor clerkship placement is geography and self-selection? I imagine CLS has some advantage placing in the 2d Cir., but it's so competitive the advantage is slight (and CLS grads compete with NYU, whereas other schools don't have the same direct competition). Also my experience has been that CLS students pick CLS, in part, to live in NYC. Are CLS applicants less interested, or have fewer ties, to clerkships in flyover states? Put another way, is the clerkship market out of CLS just narrower and more competitive than it is out of other schools?

[stoopkid13]

So which CLS students/alumni were able to receive fed clerkships while in CLS? It would be great if I could PM them when I'm going through the process as all this talk is scaring me.

From what I understand, though, I should just focus on killing it during 1L, right? Should I be targeting to create connections with certain faculty/professors that will be extra-helpful in giving me letters of recs and making calls for me?

Assuming you're a 0L, get good grades first semester and then you can start thinking about it. But wouldn't hurt to try to build relationships with your 1L profs.

Even if you don't plan on clerking, I think it's worth trying to get to know your 1L professors.

[Nebby]

I never got the feeling that they were very plugged-in with judges and had a good idea of who was hiring and when. Both among feeders and non-feeders. Made it hard to try to strategically target professor calls. Also, even when they did know that certain desirable judges were hiring, they didn't do a great job of proactively reaching out to students who might be competitive for those spots to let them know.

I think this is their biggest problem. Other schools proactively reach out to their top students and try to land them clerkships, CLS doesn't.

[Nebby]

Do you all think that part of CLS's poor clerkship placement is geography and self-selection? I imagine CLS has some advantage placing in the 2d Cir., but it's so competitive the advantage is slight (and CLS grads compete with NYU, whereas other schools don't have the same direct competition). Also my experience has been that CLS students pick CLS, in part, to live in NYC. Are CLS applicants less interested, or have fewer ties, to clerkships in flyover states? Put another way, is the clerkship market out of CLS just narrower and more competitive than it is out of other schools?

CLS students generally refuse to clerk in flyover states. It's either NY/DC/CA or bust (these are also the most competitive districts with goobers from YSH also vying for spots, as well as top students from the rest of the T14)

[FascinatedWanderer]

I never got the feeling that they were very plugged-in with judges and had a good idea of who was hiring and when. Both among feeders and non-feeders. Made it hard to try to strategically target professor calls. Also, even when they did know that certain desirable judges were hiring, they didn't do a great job of proactively reaching out to students who might be competitive for those spots to let them know.

I think this is their biggest problem. Other schools proactively reach out to their top students and try to land them clerkships, CLS doesn't.

I agree. Look, in my year, 2 of the top students (think basically 4.0) both ended up clerking for non-feeders. The school should do better than that.

[jjcorvino]

Hey everyone, I know that this question has been asked, but it was a few years ago and I want to be sure that I have the right information. If I attend CLS, I will be living with my soon to be wife and a medium sized dog (40 lbs). I heard that as long as apartments are unfurnished, that pets are generally allowed. Are any of the housing options better than others for my situation?

Can I play with your dog during finals week?

Absolutely. He is my avatar

[jjcorvino]

Hey everyone, I know that this question has been asked, but it was a few years ago and I want to be sure that I have the right information. If I attend CLS, I will be living with my soon to be wife and a medium sized dog (40 lbs). I heard that as long as apartments are unfurnished, that pets are generally allowed. Are any of the housing options better than others for my situation?

are you talking about the law school's housing options or housing generally in the Morningside Heights/Harlem area? i was told that lionsgate def allows dogs and possibly lenfest, but that the university doesn't exactly check for dogs so you might be fine in any of the housing options as long as he/she isn't a barker. if you meant housing more generally, i've been apt-hunting lately and there are a zillion dog-friendly buildings nearby. maybe our pups can be friends

Yeah, I meant the University housing. It sounds like it should be fine. He isn't a barker generally.

[GoneSouth]

I think it would be pretty tough to have a dog in Lenfest because there is a security guard at the front 24/7. I don't know anyone in there who has one. I'd imagine the same thing could be true with Lionsgate.

[Thelaw23]

Do you all think that part of CLS's poor clerkship placement is geography and self-selection? I imagine CLS has some advantage placing in the 2d Cir., but it's so competitive the advantage is slight (and CLS grads compete with NYU, whereas other schools don't have the same direct competition). Also my experience has been that CLS students pick CLS, in part, to live in NYC. Are CLS applicants less interested, or have fewer ties, to clerkships in flyover states? Put another way, is the clerkship market out of CLS just narrower and more competitive than it is out of other schools?

CLS students generally refuse to clerk in flyover states. It's either NY/DC/CA or bust (these are also the most competitive districts with goobers from YSH also vying for spots, as well as top students from the rest of the T14)

Other than the great experience if you want to do litigation, would fed district court clerkships in flyover states be helpful for work in NYC? (AUSA, lit boutiques)?

I mean helpful by improving your resume/credentials.

[dabigchina]

I never got the feeling that they were very plugged-in with judges and had a good idea of who was hiring and when. Both among feeders and non-feeders. Made it hard to try to strategically target professor calls. Also, even when they did know that certain desirable judges were hiring, they didn't do a great job of proactively reaching out to students who might be competitive for those spots to let them know.

I think this is their biggest problem. Other schools proactively reach out to their top students and try to land them clerkships, CLS doesn't.

this, I know a top student at mvp who chose not to clerk. the clerkship office and her professors practically begged her to change her mind.

[texcellence]

.

[01panm]

Does someone have any insight into the bedroom shares at Lionsgate?

They seem similarly priced to the 115th/116th apartments and I don't mind the five minute walk. I'm more concerned about avoiding the cockroaches/shitty housing horror stories I heard at ASW.

[derekne]

I never got the feeling that they were very plugged-in with judges and had a good idea of who was hiring and when. Both among feeders and non-feeders. Made it hard to try to strategically target professor calls. Also, even when they did know that certain desirable judges were hiring, they didn't do a great job of proactively reaching out to students who might be competitive for those spots to let them know.

I think this is their biggest problem. Other schools proactively reach out to their top students and try to land them clerkships, CLS doesn't.

I agree. Look, in my year, 2 of the top students (think basically 4.0) both ended up clerking for non-feeders. The school should do better than that.

If that's true I think the clerkship office deserves more blame. 4.0's at CLS,(assuming LR), should be getting feeder judges if: a. They want to clerk for a feeder and b. They apply to enough of them. Correct me if I'm wrong but top 5% at CCN is the general threshold for feeder judges so they should be getting something.

[derekne]

Do you all think that part of CLS's poor clerkship placement is geography and self-selection? I imagine CLS has some advantage placing in the 2d Cir., but it's so competitive the advantage is slight (and CLS grads compete with NYU, whereas other schools don't have the same direct competition). Also my experience has been that CLS students pick CLS, in part, to live in NYC. Are CLS applicants less interested, or have fewer ties, to clerkships in flyover states? Put another way, is the clerkship market out of CLS just narrower and more competitive than it is out of other schools?

CLS students generally refuse to clerk in flyover states. It's either NY/DC/CA or bust (these are also the most competitive districts with goobers from YSH also vying for spots, as well as top students from the rest of the T14)

Other than the great experience if you want to do litigation, would fed district court clerkships in flyover states be helpful for work in NYC? (AUSA, lit boutiques)?

I mean helpful by improving your resume/credentials.

I think they could help land Trial Boutiques in the region where you clerk. I think you'll need more experience to land AUSA. Certain Flyover Districts can give you national placement if they're heavy in certain types of cases,(i.e EDTX for patent cases before TC Heartland).