Columbia students taking questions Forum

[almondjoy]

Hey! Does anyone know what the range of grades is for upper year classes? There's exact numbers posted earlier in the thread, but are those maxed out?

For example, I know the 1L curve is 6-11%, what would the range look like for upper-year courses?

Thanks!

Not sure what you are asking regarding the "maxed out" thing but this is the posted curve:

Upperyear courses:
A+ = .64%
A = 15.63%
A- = 26%
B+ = 33.23%
B = 20.88%

Upperyear Seminars:
A+ = 1.59%
A = 30.29%
A- = 36.69%
B+ = 25.48%
B = 4.81%

ETA:
"Although these are not fixed curves, instructors are asked to try to bring their grading roughly into conformity with
the Law School’s general practice. Grades which deviate substantially from that practice will be returned for a more
detailed explanation."

[Bach-City]

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[jbagelboy]

Hey! Does anyone know what the range of grades is for upper year classes? There's exact numbers posted earlier in the thread, but are those maxed out?

For example, I know the 1L curve is 6-11%, what would the range look like for upper-year courses?

Thanks!

If you're referring only to the range of "A" grades, I don't think it grows much, but the B+ and to a lesser extent A- grades expand substantially, and the number of "B's" given out really shrinks.

[GoneSouth]

Does anyone know how grades in things like "graded research" are counted for determining honors? I assume they are factored into GPA, otherwise what would be the point. But would an A for two credits of graded research count as an A in a class for backdoor Kent purposes?

Also did we ever settle the debate about whether A+ counts as 4.33 for GPA? I feel like I remember the answer being no, but can't remember if that was firm.

[GreenEggs]

Does anyone know how grades in things like "graded research" are counted for determining honors? I assume they are factored into GPA, otherwise what would be the point. But would an A for two credits of graded research count as an A in a class for backdoor Kent purposes?

Also did we ever settle the debate about whether A+ counts as 4.33 for GPA? I feel like I remember the answer being no, but can't remember if that was firm.

A+ counts as 4.0 for GPA calculation. Unsure about the graded research question tho, I'm curious about it too

[Nebby]

Graded research is the same as any other class. It's kinda a bullshit cop out tho. When I did mien I did it ungraded.

[GoneSouth]

Graded research is the same as any other class. It's kinda a bullshit cop out tho. When I did mien I did it ungraded.

Meh, if a professor tells you that you should do it graded you don't turn him down unless you think he'll give a bad grade. Also not sure why it would ever make sense to do it for credit if the prof is willing to give a grade and you think it will be a good one. Just so you can feel like you didn't get a BS grade? Seems silly.

[jbagelboy]

Graded research is the same as any other class. It's kinda a bullshit cop out tho. When I did mien I did it ungraded.

Meh, if a professor tells you that you should do it graded you don't turn him down unless you think he'll give a bad grade. Also not sure why it would ever make sense to do it for credit if the prof is willing to give a grade and you think it will be a good one. Just so you can feel like you didn't get a BS grade? Seems silly.

I did it ungraded and for pay every time. For my note, I had to do it for credit, but I did it ungraded. Don't do graded unless you're super tight with the prof (like maybe as a 3L); I know that people have received surprise B+'s from note advisors on supervised research. Don't assume an A unless you're explicitly told you can.

[RSN]

Does anyone know how grades in things like "graded research" are counted for determining honors? I assume they are factored into GPA, otherwise what would be the point. But would an A for two credits of graded research count as an A in a class for backdoor Kent purposes?

Also did we ever settle the debate about whether A+ counts as 4.33 for GPA? I feel like I remember the answer being no, but can't remember if that was firm.

A+ counts as 4.0 for GPA calculation. Unsure about the graded research question tho, I'm curious about it too

I've been told otherwise, at least as to class rank calculation (they do rank, it's just secret). I'll probably just go ask the registrar at some point.

[skigirl3136]

Has anyone ever tried to take a class at the journalism school or SIPA? Is it difficult to get a spot in classes outside the law school?

[jbagelboy]

Has anyone ever tried to take a class at the journalism school or SIPA? Is it difficult to get a spot in classes outside the law school?

SIPA is easy; not sure about journalism

[GoneSouth]

Graded research is the same as any other class. It's kinda a bullshit cop out tho. When I did mien I did it ungraded.

Meh, if a professor tells you that you should do it graded you don't turn him down unless you think he'll give a bad grade. Also not sure why it would ever make sense to do it for credit if the prof is willing to give a grade and you think it will be a good one. Just so you can feel like you didn't get a BS grade? Seems silly.

I did it ungraded and for pay every time. For my note, I had to do it for credit, but I did it ungraded. Don't do graded unless you're super tight with the prof (like maybe as a 3L); I know that people have received surprise B+'s from note advisors on supervised research. Don't assume an A unless you're explicitly told you can.

It's moot now because I did get an A, but the prof told me ahead of time that I should do it graded because he "anticipated I would do very well." So was not going to turn that down. Also was the type of prof that wouldn't give you a shit grade unless you completely mailed it in.

[lellie]

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[GoneSouth]

My initial aid offer from the Financial Aid Office was $37,500. I sent them offers from Duke for $105,000 and UT for $90,000 and they increased to $50,000. Did any of you go back for a 2nd time to ask for another increase without additional leverage successfully? If so, any pointers?

Stats:
LSAT right under median (170)
50<GPA<75

Don't have any first hand experience here, but my instinct is that you're probably out of luck. May have a better chance if you say "if you give me ($XX reasonable bigger number) then I will definitely go to CLS." But that would only work if you would actually go there and aren't riding the Harvard waitlist or something.

Either way, doesn't hurt to ask. They're not going to revoke your acceptance or knock your number down

[jbagelboy]

I think $50k with a 170/3.8ish is pretty strong for those numbers, and its good you were already able to negotiate up. 170 is more like the 25th %ile LSAT (172 median), so being admitted--with money--speaks to your application.

[lellie]

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[dabigchina]

Thanks for the insight. I really appreciate it!

From everything I've read I'm guessing y'all would suggest I go to UT or Duke over Columbia since 50K still leaves me with a ton of debt.

If you want generic NYC biglaw, Duke @ 105k is very hard to turn down.


I wouldnt consider UT unless you absolutely need to be in Texas.

[lellie]

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[dabigchina]

Thanks for the insight. I really appreciate it!

From everything I've read I'm guessing y'all would suggest I go to UT or Duke over Columbia since 50K still leaves me with a ton of debt.

If you want generic NYC biglaw, Duke @ 105k is very hard to turn down.


I wouldnt consider UT unless you absolutely need to be in Texas.

Right now I ideally want to do COA clerkship, litigation for a while, and then possibly move to public interest. Who really knows until you actually get to school and get some experience though. Right now I work with a bunch of tax lawyers in tax consulting and I enjoy that so I guess transactional isn't out of the picture.

I'm from Texas and want to end up back there eventually but not immediately out of law school.

You can go a few pages back and read the extensive discussion ITT about clerkship placement at CLS.

I personally came in knowing I didn't want to clerk so I can't really speak to how easy it is to get COA clerkships here.

[lellie]

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[GoneSouth]

Thanks for the insight. I really appreciate it!

From everything I've read I'm guessing y'all would suggest I go to UT or Duke over Columbia since 50K still leaves me with a ton of debt.

If you want generic NYC biglaw, Duke @ 105k is very hard to turn down.


I wouldnt consider UT unless you absolutely need to be in Texas.

Right now I ideally want to do COA clerkship, litigation for a while, and then possibly move to public interest. Who really knows until you actually get to school and get some experience though. Right now I work with a bunch of tax lawyers in tax consulting and I enjoy that so I guess transactional isn't out of the picture.

I'm from Texas and want to end up back there eventually but not immediately out of law school.

If your main goal is to do a COA clerkship, I'd knock Texas off the list unless you're set on Fifth Circuit. It's going to be much tougher to get a COA clerkship outside of the state of Texas with a degree from UT than with a CLS, or to a lesser extent Duke, degree.

Circuit clerkship hiring is so idiosyncratic and you have no idea right now if you'll have the grades to be competitive, so I wouldn't put too much weight on it if there are reasons that you want to go to the other two schools. But I do think it's fine to take it into account, and of those three schools, CLS will definitely give you the best chance of landing one IMO.

[FascinatedWanderer]

I don't really think CoA clerkships are a pipe dream. They're very achievable if you put your head down and do well in law school.

I'd go with Duke here for the money. The school has some good connections with CoA judges on CA6/11 etc.

It is a bit of a gamble though because if you end up outside like the top 15% CLS is definitely a much better school to be at.

[dabigchina]

I don't really think CoA clerkships are a pipe dream. They're very achievable if you put your head down and do well in law school.

I'd go with Duke here for the money. The school has some good connections with CoA judges on CA6/11 etc.

It is a bit of a gamble though because if you end up outside like the top 15% CLS is definitely a much better school to be at.

I agree. I do think she has solid enough work experience to land on her feet at median from Duke. She just might not get the kind of clerkship she wants.

[jbagelboy]

Pipe dream is not the right phrase, but a COA clerkship is not going to be achievable for most law students at any law school. "Doing well in school" is of course a worthy goal, but at both Duke and CLS that's far from a foregone conclusion as an 0L. People should never measure where they attend law school based on the chances of an outcome that will only be available to them if they perform very well in the class. Nor should they place undue weight on what happens if they landed at the bottom (although this should be considered as downside risk). They should look instead to what's available to people in the middle quadrants of the class.

[lellie]

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