Columbia students taking questions Forum

[jbagelboy]

Do people tend to get into their first choice moot court?
How competitive is the process really and do a lot of people get weeded out by the length of the apps?

Jessup is the only lengthy app, isn't it? They said at the session they got like 30+ apps for 3 spots. I'm not even bothering. FD gets a ton of apps too, though, so who knows.
I banged out two others in under two hours (though I still need to prepare my oral statements).
Disclaimer I'm a fellow 1L

Vis, ELMC, and FD are all 'competitive' in the sense that there are far fewer spots than applicants, but none are on the level of intensity of jessup.

Outed as jessup homer lol. Jessup is for sure more work, but that's the last thing you should want 1L year. As a foundational person I can say that the perception of FD outstrips the others by a decent margin because they're so dominant. That said, it's all intra-CLS fake ass prestige. It's cool to do externals, but other than sparking a conversation with a random alum, meeting new 1/2Ls, or helping you get a spot on a non-CLR journal because you can be identified by your resume and a member spots it and bumps you a few points there isn't a real benefit.

I didn't do jessup.

But I think there's a ton of value in the specialized moot courts for anyone with non-generic law school interests, and I would stand by that statement pretty fiercely. It embeds you almost immediately in the community of people that share your intellectual interest and connects you to faculty in that area (who serve as your coaches and mentors throughout the process and hire you as research assistants immediately after). It creates a de facto social network that persists throughout/after law school, which can be especially positive for folks that aren't super stoked about bar review. It gives you a free trip, in the vis/elmc case to europe one or multiple times, to the oral competition, and those trips are often the highlight of 1L year. It's an immediate signal for opportunities that arise in that interest area later in law school. And while your fall semester is a pain in the ass, it flattens your 1L schedule by placing the brief writing burden in the fall when you only have 3 graded courses and clears out the spring semester to prepare for four graded finals.

[stoopkid13]

I didn't do jessup.

But I think there's a ton of value in the specialized moot courts for anyone with non-generic law school interests, and I would stand by that statement pretty fiercely. It embeds you almost immediately in the community of people that share your intellectual interest and connects you to faculty in that area (who serve as your coaches and mentors throughout the process and hire you as research assistants immediately after). It creates a de facto social network that persists throughout/after law school, which can be especially positive for folks that aren't super stoked about bar review. It gives you a free trip, in the vis/elmc case to europe one or multiple times, to the oral competition, and those trips are often the highlight of 1L year. It's an immediate signal for opportunities that arise in that interest area later in law school. And while your fall semester is a pain in the ass, it flattens your 1L schedule by placing the brief writing burden in the fall when you only have 3 graded courses and clears out the spring semester to prepare for four graded finals.

Lol what brief writing burden?

[jbagelboy]

I didn't do jessup.

But I think there's a ton of value in the specialized moot courts for anyone with non-generic law school interests, and I would stand by that statement pretty fiercely. It embeds you almost immediately in the community of people that share your intellectual interest and connects you to faculty in that area (who serve as your coaches and mentors throughout the process and hire you as research assistants immediately after). It creates a de facto social network that persists throughout/after law school, which can be especially positive for folks that aren't super stoked about bar review. It gives you a free trip, in the vis/elmc case to europe one or multiple times, to the oral competition, and those trips are often the highlight of 1L year. It's an immediate signal for opportunities that arise in that interest area later in law school. And while your fall semester is a pain in the ass, it flattens your 1L schedule by placing the brief writing burden in the fall when you only have 3 graded courses and clears out the spring semester to prepare for four graded finals.

Lol what brief writing burden?

For some moot courts, you have to write much or all of your briefs before winter break, i.e., while you're doing your LPW memo.

[dabigchina]

I wouldn't do any moot court (or write on for law review either) but hindsight is 20/20.

[stoopkid13]

I didn't do jessup.

But I think there's a ton of value in the specialized moot courts for anyone with non-generic law school interests, and I would stand by that statement pretty fiercely. It embeds you almost immediately in the community of people that share your intellectual interest and connects you to faculty in that area (who serve as your coaches and mentors throughout the process and hire you as research assistants immediately after). It creates a de facto social network that persists throughout/after law school, which can be especially positive for folks that aren't super stoked about bar review. It gives you a free trip, in the vis/elmc case to europe one or multiple times, to the oral competition, and those trips are often the highlight of 1L year. It's an immediate signal for opportunities that arise in that interest area later in law school. And while your fall semester is a pain in the ass, it flattens your 1L schedule by placing the brief writing burden in the fall when you only have 3 graded courses and clears out the spring semester to prepare for four graded finals.

Lol what brief writing burden?

For some moot courts, you have to write much or all of your briefs before winter break, i.e., while you're doing your LPW memo.

If you're doing the LPW memo your schedule should be pretty clear regardless. You're not moving a burden from spring to fall; you're creating a brand new burden (I agree it still might be worth it for the other reasons you mentioned though).

[maroon175]

I wouldn't do any moot court (or write on for law review either) but hindsight is 20/20.

I second this ...unless you're trying to land a clerkship

[mylifeis24]

Do people tend to get into their first choice moot court?
How competitive is the process really and do a lot of people get weeded out by the length of the apps?

Jessup is the only lengthy app, isn't it? They said at the session they got like 30+ apps for 3 spots. I'm not even bothering. FD gets a ton of apps too, though, so who knows.
I banged out two others in under two hours (though I still need to prepare my oral statements).
Disclaimer I'm a fellow 1L

Vis, ELMC, and FD are all 'competitive' in the sense that there are far fewer spots than applicants, but none are on the level of intensity of jessup.

Outed as jessup homer lol. Jessup is for sure more work, but that's the last thing you should want 1L year. As a foundational person I can say that the perception of FD outstrips the others by a decent margin because they're so dominant. That said, it's all intra-CLS fake ass prestige. It's cool to do externals, but other than sparking a conversation with a random alum, meeting new 1/2Ls, or helping you get a spot on a non-CLR journal because you can be identified by your resume and a member spots it and bumps you a few points there isn't a real benefit.

I think you forgot the most important part of FD, which has nothing to do with your focus on prestige. It was the best experience I had in law school and taught me a ton about how to actually approach problems, craft arguments, and clearly and persuasively convey those arguments in both written and oral presentations. Foundational has nothing riding on it and is P/F, so most people just skirt by with it. FD makes you prepare and provides you with the tools to really learn from the experience. Highly recommend applying.

[ugg]

Dumb question... how do you access the exam bank? I'm just getting this:
http://web.law.columbia.edu/library/ser ... past-exams

And are there any other decent resources for finding past exams?

[jbagelboy]

Dumb question... how do you access the exam bank? I'm just getting this:
http://web.law.columbia.edu/library/ser ... past-exams

And are there any other decent resources for finding past exams?

Go to any CLS computer, like in the printing room on the third floor, and there should be a G drive accessible to any log-in (the same way you'd access the C drive or a shared drive on your computer.) That's where I always found past exams.

[ugg]

Dumb question... how do you access the exam bank? I'm just getting this:
http://web.law.columbia.edu/library/ser ... past-exams

And are there any other decent resources for finding past exams?

Go to any CLS computer, like in the printing room on the third floor, and there should be a G drive accessible to any log-in (the same way you'd access the C drive or a shared drive on your computer.) That's where I always found past exams.

Just found it. Any other resource I should be aware of for this? I am not seeing exams from my specific professor, so I'm wondering how useful these will be.

[iamgeorgebush]

Dumb question... how do you access the exam bank? I'm just getting this:
http://web.law.columbia.edu/library/ser ... past-exams

And are there any other decent resources for finding past exams?

Go to any CLS computer, like in the printing room on the third floor, and there should be a G drive accessible to any log-in (the same way you'd access the C drive or a shared drive on your computer.) That's where I always found past exams.

Just found it. Any other resource I should be aware of for this? I am not seeing exams from my specific professor, so I'm wondering how useful these will be.

the G drive's exam bank is shitty. senate never updates it. best thing to do, in my experience, has been to get exams directly from the profs.

[jbagelboy]

Dumb question... how do you access the exam bank? I'm just getting this:
http://web.law.columbia.edu/library/ser ... past-exams

And are there any other decent resources for finding past exams?

Go to any CLS computer, like in the printing room on the third floor, and there should be a G drive accessible to any log-in (the same way you'd access the C drive or a shared drive on your computer.) That's where I always found past exams.

Just found it. Any other resource I should be aware of for this? I am not seeing exams from my specific professor, so I'm wondering how useful these will be.

The professor might distribute a couple prior exams closer to the time you'd be taking them. Usually people ask for them sometime before Thanksgiving and the professor will address it in class. For an elective or upper year course, a journal might have it (the law reviews/journals maintain outline banks), but that wouldn't be relevant for 1L classes. Some professors just don't have any exams available and don't offer them, or only offer one (e.g. kraus). That's just the way the cookie crumbles, no point fretting about it since no one else will have them either.

You are right to be wary about using other professors exams. That's usually a waste of time unless the professors are known to compose their exams together, and it can actually be dangerous if it makes you learn material you aren't responsible for.

[randomanswers]

Hi everyone.

I wrote a few weeks ago about my issues in Legal Methods...

The material is better since we started from the beginning... But I really feel like I'm not learning anything. I'm worried that I just don't understand what I'm reading. I never understand the hypotheticals/problems in the casebooks. I go to class, take notes, and try to read as much supplements as I can, but it's just not helping.

I have no idea what to do.

[Border_Ruffian]

Anyone from Columbia have access to outlines for Curtis Milhaupt's Corporations course? He's visiting at SLS this year, and I'm trying to get a sense for how far into the weeds I need to get with some of the statutory frameworks. Please PM with suggestions, etc.

[Nebby]

Hi everyone.

I wrote a few weeks ago about my issues in Legal Methods...

The material is better since we started from the beginning... But I really feel like I'm not learning anything. I'm worried that I just don't understand what I'm reading. I never understand the hypotheticals/problems in the casebooks. I go to class, take notes, and try to read as much supplements as I can, but it's just not helping.

I have no idea what to do.

It will come with time. The most important thing is to read the cases. One thing I suggest is to read the case and ask yourself "what rule is this case teaching me." Don't get discouraged! See how you feel in a month

[RSN]

Hi everyone.

I wrote a few weeks ago about my issues in Legal Methods...

The material is better since we started from the beginning... But I really feel like I'm not learning anything. I'm worried that I just don't understand what I'm reading. I never understand the hypotheticals/problems in the casebooks. I go to class, take notes, and try to read as much supplements as I can, but it's just not helping.

I have no idea what to do.

As was said, it takes time before you really start to see how the rules are tools you can use to approach new problems. But (almost) every case in your book is there for a reason -- to provide a rule (sometimes more than one) that illustrates how courts treat particular kinds of problems.

I would actually recommend being careful with supplements right now; approaches vary on this, but I found them much more helpful as I was reviewing my notes and starting to outline. They very often take away different things from the cases than your professor does -- what your professor says always trumps any other source, so the mixed messages can make it more confusing. Unless there's a class you're totally lost in (and if you are, I'd recommend talking to upper level students or going to office hours), I'd use them sparingly at this stage, though again, perspectives vary on this.

[CLSGumbo]

They only gave out one award to someone from c/o 2017?

[Nebby]

So after looking at my budget and doing some calculations, looks like I might need an extra 5k in loans. Anyone here know the process for re-applying for a little extra to get by? I'm gonna go talk to financial aid office but was just curious if anyone else has done this before.

I've done it. Talk to finaid. They'll email you a form to fill out and they take care of the rest. If you get started today, the money should be in your account in a month. Also remember that it will have a fee, so make sure to budget that in. (Request like $5500 or something around there)

If you take out loans, they add the loan fees on in addition. Does LRAP cover those loan fees?

Yes

[paragonloop]

Anyone from Columbia have access to outlines for Curtis Milhaupt's Corporations course? He's visiting at SLS this year, and I'm trying to get a sense for how far into the weeds I need to get with some of the statutory frameworks. Please PM with suggestions, etc.

+1

Please PM me as well!

[alyb12]

Anyone have a good outline for Sturm's Civil Procedure class? I have been told that the one in the drive is okay but I can't access it

[dabigchina]

Hi everyone.

I wrote a few weeks ago about my issues in Legal Methods...

The material is better since we started from the beginning... But I really feel like I'm not learning anything. I'm worried that I just don't understand what I'm reading. I never understand the hypotheticals/problems in the casebooks. I go to class, take notes, and try to read as much supplements as I can, but it's just not helping.

I have no idea what to do.

. You aren't supposed to be able to untangle those textbook hypos independently. Don't worry. I don't even read them anymore.

[playwright]

How competitive is it to get into clinics and externships? Anyone know how thought-out the application has to be? Also, do they look at your grades as well, or is it just your resume + the app?

[ugg]

Anyone here have a good Civ Pro outline for Genty? Having trouble since there's really only a year of resources ahead of me.

[White Dwarf]

edit

[ugg]

Anyone here have a good Civ Pro outline for Genty? Having trouble since there's really only a year of resources ahead of me.

You're welcome to mine.

http://docdro.id/D9Ja4hc

It's not great by any means (first outline I ever made). But Civ Pro was my best grade 1L, so it might be helpful.

Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!