Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
User avatar
Pneumonia

Gold
Posts: 1934
Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2012 3:05 pm

Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby Pneumonia » Tue Jul 24, 2018 8:56 am

Lolstudent wrote:
Veil of Ignorance wrote:Does being on a journal prevent you from doing one of those freakin cool study abroad programs? I'm honestly surprised and delighted that law schools offer these programs. I'd love to live abroad again if it doesn't hurt my career prospects.


Sorry to hijack, but do journals matter at HLS if you don’t want to clerk and just want to do state DOJ or generic biglaw?

It likely won't "matter" for hiring purposes, at least not for generic biglaw. But state AG/SG work is fairly competitive and it might look weird to not have a journal. Probably still wouldn't matter for hiring.

However, if you're planning to to litigation in any capacity, I'd recommend doing a journal. If nothing else you'll get writing/bluebooking experience. I didn't do a journal but should've.

User avatar
Pneumonia

Gold
Posts: 1934
Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2012 3:05 pm

Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby Pneumonia » Tue Jul 24, 2018 9:02 am

Veil of Ignorance wrote: Wouldn't some people be eager to earn a biglaw salary for a year or two before clerking for various financial reasons? Also, don't you start higher on the GS-scale, or whichever scale clerks use?


Sure, but that would be kind of a strange choice. You can automatically forbear your loans while clerking, so for most people a clerkship salary is going to be a raise. And doing HLS --> biglaw --> clerk --> biglaw will likely involve an extra move.

Lots of people do that, and there's nothing wrong with it. My post was responding to the question whether more HLS students "choose" to go that route in general. I think the answer is no because I don't know anyone who "chose" the delayed-clerk path. The people who are doing it are people who didn't get the clerkship they wanted as 1L/2Ls or who came to the clerkship game late. I think both groups would've preferred to clerk immediately after school.

Not certain about the GS-scale.

Veil of Ignorance

Bronze
Posts: 325
Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2016 9:22 pm

Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby Veil of Ignorance » Tue Jul 24, 2018 12:13 pm

Pneumonia wrote:
Lolstudent wrote:
Veil of Ignorance wrote:Does being on a journal prevent you from doing one of those freakin cool study abroad programs? I'm honestly surprised and delighted that law schools offer these programs. I'd love to live abroad again if it doesn't hurt my career prospects.


Sorry to hijack, but do journals matter at HLS if you don’t want to clerk and just want to do state DOJ or generic biglaw?

It likely won't "matter" for hiring purposes, at least not for generic biglaw. But state AG/SG work is fairly competitive and it might look weird to not have a journal. Probably still wouldn't matter for hiring.

However, if you're planning to to litigation in any capacity, I'd recommend doing a journal. If nothing else you'll get writing/bluebooking experience. I didn't do a journal but should've.

And being abroad during first semester of 1L year would prevent doing a journal? You can't do the work remotely?

Veil of Ignorance

Bronze
Posts: 325
Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2016 9:22 pm

Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby Veil of Ignorance » Tue Jul 24, 2018 1:09 pm

Veil of Ignorance wrote:
Pneumonia wrote:
Lolstudent wrote:
Veil of Ignorance wrote:Does being on a journal prevent you from doing one of those freakin cool study abroad programs? I'm honestly surprised and delighted that law schools offer these programs. I'd love to live abroad again if it doesn't hurt my career prospects.


Sorry to hijack, but do journals matter at HLS if you don’t want to clerk and just want to do state DOJ or generic biglaw?

It likely won't "matter" for hiring purposes, at least not for generic biglaw. But state AG/SG work is fairly competitive and it might look weird to not have a journal. Probably still wouldn't matter for hiring.

However, if you're planning to to litigation in any capacity, I'd recommend doing a journal. If nothing else you'll get writing/bluebooking experience. I didn't do a journal but should've.

And being abroad during first semester of 1L year would prevent doing a journal? You can't do the work remotely?

Sorry I meant 3L year. Annoying that we can't edit posts.

User avatar
Pneumonia

Gold
Posts: 1934
Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2012 3:05 pm

Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby Pneumonia » Tue Jul 24, 2018 6:02 pm

Veil of Ignorance wrote: And being abroad during first semester of 1L year would prevent doing a journal? You can't do the work remotely?

Sorry, I was responding to the hijacker. I didn't do a journal so I'm not sure. I suspect you could make it work 3L, though.

hlsboi2020

New
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2018 11:19 pm

Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby hlsboi2020 » Tue Jul 24, 2018 11:33 pm

Hi 2020ers. I am hoping we can share at least tiny bits of information with each other about the new hiring timeline. I was initially really happy about Manning's announcement....but have started hearing that some professors might be breaking Manning's "requested policy" about waiting to recommend people for clerkships until the new, post-2L June date. If some professors are disregarding the policy, that probably means that most HLS students (who don't have recommenders breaking the "rules") are actually going to be in the worst of both worlds, worse off than the shitty anarchy of before. So we should at least know what is going on. (TBH, if HLS actually wanted this policy to be serious, they should've imposed a threatened penalty on students who apply early, rather than a "firm suggestion" to faculty, who don't give a shit...)

I realize that anyone who is exceptional will not be willing to share identifying information about professors departing from the policy but...to the extent that we can, shall we share info about this with each other? The clerkship office is already clearly pulling some BS with this hiring plan. As in, wink-wink, nod-nods, about applying before the new date. So it's impossible to ask them about whether there are any circumstances when a student should ask a professor to bend the rules (is it only acceptable for professors to bend the rules when they are the ones initiating the proposition? and so on). They will answer with a double, triple, quadruple negative. "Well, we're not, not, not, not, not, saying that you can't apply now...if you weren't to not, not, not, neglect to approach a professor about this, and if a judge wasn't not not interested in you for some reason..."

Any info to share on this issue? For instance, I've heard Fed Soc is encouraging its members to find judges who aren't on the plan and apply early. But does this mean they're going to go ask professors to break the "rules" for them?

Splurgles23

New
Posts: 10
Joined: Sun Feb 18, 2018 5:03 pm

Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby Splurgles23 » Wed Jul 25, 2018 11:34 am

hlsboi2020 wrote:Hi 2020ers. I am hoping we can share at least tiny bits of information with each other about the new hiring timeline. I was initially really happy about Manning's announcement....but have started hearing that some professors might be breaking Manning's "requested policy" about waiting to recommend people for clerkships until the new, post-2L June date. If some professors are disregarding the policy, that probably means that most HLS students (who don't have recommenders breaking the "rules") are actually going to be in the worst of both worlds, worse off than the shitty anarchy of before. So we should at least know what is going on. (TBH, if HLS actually wanted this policy to be serious, they should've imposed a threatened penalty on students who apply early, rather than a "firm suggestion" to faculty, who don't give a shit...)

I realize that anyone who is exceptional will not be willing to share identifying information about professors departing from the policy but...to the extent that we can, shall we share info about this with each other? The clerkship office is already clearly pulling some BS with this hiring plan. As in, wink-wink, nod-nods, about applying before the new date. So it's impossible to ask them about whether there are any circumstances when a student should ask a professor to bend the rules (is it only acceptable for professors to bend the rules when they are the ones initiating the proposition? and so on). They will answer with a double, triple, quadruple negative. "Well, we're not, not, not, not, not, saying that you can't apply now...if you weren't to not, not, not, neglect to approach a professor about this, and if a judge wasn't not not interested in you for some reason..."

Any info to share on this issue? For instance, I've heard Fed Soc is encouraging its members to find judges who aren't on the plan and apply early. But does this mean they're going to go ask professors to break the "rules" for them?



Welcome to reality. The clerkship office will always play a ruthless numbers game: it will go to bat for the students who, in terms of GPA and other connections/credentials, have the best chances of placing well with prestigious judges. After all, the staffers in that office want to perform well in their own jobs (they've got their own bills to pay!), and placing students is part of that. So, in line with reality, they care first and foremost about grades and credentials. Always have, always will. If you've got mostly DS's and H's, they'll work to find you feeders to SCOTUS, whatever "requested policy" may be in place. And so on down the tiers of grades. You have to expect, and plan for, that reality.

User avatar
Pneumonia

Gold
Posts: 1934
Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2012 3:05 pm

Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby Pneumonia » Wed Jul 25, 2018 12:11 pm

hlsboi2020 wrote:Hi 2020ers. I am hoping we can share at least tiny bits of information with each other about the new hiring timeline. I was initially really happy about Manning's announcement....but have started hearing that some professors might be breaking Manning's "requested policy" about waiting to recommend people for clerkships until the new, post-2L June date. If some professors are disregarding the policy, that probably means that most HLS students (who don't have recommenders breaking the "rules") are actually going to be in the worst of both worlds, worse off than the shitty anarchy of before. So we should at least know what is going on. (TBH, if HLS actually wanted this policy to be serious, they should've imposed a threatened penalty on students who apply early, rather than a "firm suggestion" to faculty, who don't give a shit...)

I realize that anyone who is exceptional will not be willing to share identifying information about professors departing from the policy but...to the extent that we can, shall we share info about this with each other? The clerkship office is already clearly pulling some BS with this hiring plan. As in, wink-wink, nod-nods, about applying before the new date. So it's impossible to ask them about whether there are any circumstances when a student should ask a professor to bend the rules (is it only acceptable for professors to bend the rules when they are the ones initiating the proposition? and so on). They will answer with a double, triple, quadruple negative. "Well, we're not, not, not, not, not, saying that you can't apply now...if you weren't to not, not, not, neglect to approach a professor about this, and if a judge wasn't not not interested in you for some reason..."

Any info to share on this issue? For instance, I've heard Fed Soc is encouraging its members to find judges who aren't on the plan and apply early. But does this mean they're going to go ask professors to break the "rules" for them?

You should assume that at least some professors are ignoring the dean's suggestion for at least some students. The clerkship office is really good about helping Sears candidates. But if you're more of an an average clerkship applicant I'd recommend just doing research yourself and asking for professor recommendations yourself etc. The worst a prof can say is "no." Your defense is that other people are doing it and the school's policy is just "encouragement" to begin with.

hlsboi2020

New
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2018 11:19 pm

Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby hlsboi2020 » Wed Jul 25, 2018 9:26 pm

Splurgles23 wrote:
hlsboi2020 wrote:Hi 2020ers. I am hoping we can share at least tiny bits of information with each other about the new hiring timeline. I was initially really happy about Manning's announcement....but have started hearing that some professors might be breaking Manning's "requested policy" about waiting to recommend people for clerkships until the new, post-2L June date. If some professors are disregarding the policy, that probably means that most HLS students (who don't have recommenders breaking the "rules") are actually going to be in the worst of both worlds, worse off than the shitty anarchy of before. So we should at least know what is going on. (TBH, if HLS actually wanted this policy to be serious, they should've imposed a threatened penalty on students who apply early, rather than a "firm suggestion" to faculty, who don't give a shit...)

I realize that anyone who is exceptional will not be willing to share identifying information about professors departing from the policy but...to the extent that we can, shall we share info about this with each other? The clerkship office is already clearly pulling some BS with this hiring plan. As in, wink-wink, nod-nods, about applying before the new date. So it's impossible to ask them about whether there are any circumstances when a student should ask a professor to bend the rules (is it only acceptable for professors to bend the rules when they are the ones initiating the proposition? and so on). They will answer with a double, triple, quadruple negative. "Well, we're not, not, not, not, not, saying that you can't apply now...if you weren't to not, not, not, neglect to approach a professor about this, and if a judge wasn't not not interested in you for some reason..."

Any info to share on this issue? For instance, I've heard Fed Soc is encouraging its members to find judges who aren't on the plan and apply early. But does this mean they're going to go ask professors to break the "rules" for them?



Welcome to reality. The clerkship office will always play a ruthless numbers game: it will go to bat for the students who, in terms of GPA and other connections/credentials, have the best chances of placing well with prestigious judges. After all, the staffers in that office want to perform well in their own jobs (they've got their own bills to pay!), and placing students is part of that. So, in line with reality, they care first and foremost about grades and credentials. Always have, always will. If you've got mostly DS's and H's, they'll work to find you feeders to SCOTUS, whatever "requested policy" may be in place. And so on down the tiers of grades. You have to expect, and plan for, that reality.


Thanks for welcoming me to reality. Yes, I am aware that this is how the clerkship office has already been operating. My point is that it was already kind of shitty, opaque, and rife with politicking (which was bad, for us lowly non-Sears types at least), but now it has probably gotten even worse because the clerkship office will be even less transparent about what they are doing and for whom. So even though the policy is ostensibly intended to fix some of those problems (reducing the post-1L summer rat race that gives great advantage to those who killed 1L), it may instead amplify many of them.

Look, no shit, the clerkship office is going to continue to favor people with amazing grades. I am just asking what people are hearing as to how widespread the "rule"-bending is or will be, and what form such bending is taking. For instance, if a few people responded in this thread that they know of tons of friends who are just asking professors to write recommendations now, and professors are saying yes, then that is helpful to know. Etc. etc. etc. etc.

The whole point is that it's extremely hush-hush, and to the extent that we can shine a little light on what is going on, that will probably be helpful for most of us.

hlsboi2020

New
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2018 11:19 pm

Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby hlsboi2020 » Wed Jul 25, 2018 9:28 pm

Pneumonia wrote:
hlsboi2020 wrote:Hi 2020ers. I am hoping we can share at least tiny bits of information with each other about the new hiring timeline. I was initially really happy about Manning's announcement....but have started hearing that some professors might be breaking Manning's "requested policy" about waiting to recommend people for clerkships until the new, post-2L June date. If some professors are disregarding the policy, that probably means that most HLS students (who don't have recommenders breaking the "rules") are actually going to be in the worst of both worlds, worse off than the shitty anarchy of before. So we should at least know what is going on. (TBH, if HLS actually wanted this policy to be serious, they should've imposed a threatened penalty on students who apply early, rather than a "firm suggestion" to faculty, who don't give a shit...)

I realize that anyone who is exceptional will not be willing to share identifying information about professors departing from the policy but...to the extent that we can, shall we share info about this with each other? The clerkship office is already clearly pulling some BS with this hiring plan. As in, wink-wink, nod-nods, about applying before the new date. So it's impossible to ask them about whether there are any circumstances when a student should ask a professor to bend the rules (is it only acceptable for professors to bend the rules when they are the ones initiating the proposition? and so on). They will answer with a double, triple, quadruple negative. "Well, we're not, not, not, not, not, saying that you can't apply now...if you weren't to not, not, not, neglect to approach a professor about this, and if a judge wasn't not not interested in you for some reason..."

Any info to share on this issue? For instance, I've heard Fed Soc is encouraging its members to find judges who aren't on the plan and apply early. But does this mean they're going to go ask professors to break the "rules" for them?

You should assume that at least some professors are ignoring the dean's suggestion for at least some students. The clerkship office is really good about helping Sears candidates. But if you're more of an an average clerkship applicant I'd recommend just doing research yourself and asking for professor recommendations yourself etc. The worst a prof can say is "no." Your defense is that other people are doing it and the school's policy is just "encouragement" to begin with.


Thanks for your response. Seems like a good assessment. I guess part of my initial post is trying to figure out if "other people are doing it" (asking professors for recs now) because it's not clear to me that they actually are.

User avatar
leslieknope

Silver
Posts: 1114
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2012 8:53 pm

Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby leslieknope » Fri Jul 27, 2018 2:37 am

Veil of Ignorance wrote:
Veil of Ignorance wrote:
Pneumonia wrote:
Lolstudent wrote:
Veil of Ignorance wrote:Does being on a journal prevent you from doing one of those freakin cool study abroad programs? I'm honestly surprised and delighted that law schools offer these programs. I'd love to live abroad again if it doesn't hurt my career prospects.


Sorry to hijack, but do journals matter at HLS if you don’t want to clerk and just want to do state DOJ or generic biglaw?

It likely won't "matter" for hiring purposes, at least not for generic biglaw. But state AG/SG work is fairly competitive and it might look weird to not have a journal. Probably still wouldn't matter for hiring.

However, if you're planning to to litigation in any capacity, I'd recommend doing a journal. If nothing else you'll get writing/bluebooking experience. I didn't do a journal but should've.

And being abroad during first semester of 1L year would prevent doing a journal? You can't do the work remotely?

Sorry I meant 3L year. Annoying that we can't edit posts.


If you're on HLR, you can't go abroad during 3L year absent very extenuating circumstances. IDK about other journals - but I would assume the more involved you are, the harder it is to get away 3L year. That said, I know plenty of people who just did journals 1-2L and quit 3L, and there are ways to be involved in a journal that aren't intense.

User avatar
Mokosc

New
Posts: 45
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2018 9:04 am

Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby Mokosc » Sat Jul 28, 2018 7:22 am

Splurgles23 wrote:
hlsboi2020 wrote:Hi 2020ers. I am hoping we can share at least tiny bits of information with each other about the new hiring timeline. I was initially really happy about Manning's announcement....but have started hearing that some professors might be breaking Manning's "requested policy" about waiting to recommend people for clerkships until the new, post-2L June date. If some professors are disregarding the policy, that probably means that most HLS students (who don't have recommenders breaking the "rules") are actually going to be in the worst of both worlds, worse off than the shitty anarchy of before. So we should at least know what is going on. (TBH, if HLS actually wanted this policy to be serious, they should've imposed a threatened penalty on students who apply early, rather than a "firm suggestion" to faculty, who don't give a shit...)

I realize that anyone who is exceptional will not be willing to share identifying information about professors departing from the policy but...to the extent that we can, shall we share info about this with each other? The clerkship office is already clearly pulling some BS with this hiring plan. As in, wink-wink, nod-nods, about applying before the new date. So it's impossible to ask them about whether there are any circumstances when a student should ask a professor to bend the rules (is it only acceptable for professors to bend the rules when they are the ones initiating the proposition? and so on). They will answer with a double, triple, quadruple negative. "Well, we're not, not, not, not, not, saying that you can't apply now...if you weren't to not, not, not, neglect to approach a professor about this, and if a judge wasn't not not interested in you for some reason..."

Any info to share on this issue? For instance, I've heard Fed Soc is encouraging its members to find judges who aren't on the plan and apply early. But does this mean they're going to go ask professors to break the "rules" for them?



Welcome to reality. The clerkship office will always play a ruthless numbers game: it will go to bat for the students who, in terms of GPA and other connections/credentials, have the best chances of placing well with prestigious judges. After all, the staffers in that office want to perform well in their own jobs (they've got their own bills to pay!), and placing students is part of that. So, in line with reality, they care first and foremost about grades and credentials. Always have, always will. If you've got mostly DS's and H's, they'll work to find you feeders to SCOTUS, whatever "requested policy" may be in place. And so on down the tiers of grades. You have to expect, and plan for, that reality.


This is very true.

ptlgd17

New
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2017 8:23 pm

Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby ptlgd17 » Sat Aug 04, 2018 11:56 pm

hlsboi2020 wrote:
Pneumonia wrote:
hlsboi2020 wrote:Hi 2020ers. I am hoping we can share at least tiny bits of information with each other about the new hiring timeline. I was initially really happy about Manning's announcement....but have started hearing that some professors might be breaking Manning's "requested policy" about waiting to recommend people for clerkships until the new, post-2L June date. If some professors are disregarding the policy, that probably means that most HLS students (who don't have recommenders breaking the "rules") are actually going to be in the worst of both worlds, worse off than the shitty anarchy of before. So we should at least know what is going on. (TBH, if HLS actually wanted this policy to be serious, they should've imposed a threatened penalty on students who apply early, rather than a "firm suggestion" to faculty, who don't give a shit...)

I realize that anyone who is exceptional will not be willing to share identifying information about professors departing from the policy but...to the extent that we can, shall we share info about this with each other? The clerkship office is already clearly pulling some BS with this hiring plan. As in, wink-wink, nod-nods, about applying before the new date. So it's impossible to ask them about whether there are any circumstances when a student should ask a professor to bend the rules (is it only acceptable for professors to bend the rules when they are the ones initiating the proposition? and so on). They will answer with a double, triple, quadruple negative. "Well, we're not, not, not, not, not, saying that you can't apply now...if you weren't to not, not, not, neglect to approach a professor about this, and if a judge wasn't not not interested in you for some reason..."

Any info to share on this issue? For instance, I've heard Fed Soc is encouraging its members to find judges who aren't on the plan and apply early. But does this mean they're going to go ask professors to break the "rules" for them?

You should assume that at least some professors are ignoring the dean's suggestion for at least some students. The clerkship office is really good about helping Sears candidates. But if you're more of an an average clerkship applicant I'd recommend just doing research yourself and asking for professor recommendations yourself etc. The worst a prof can say is "no." Your defense is that other people are doing it and the school's policy is just "encouragement" to begin with.


Thanks for your response. Seems like a good assessment. I guess part of my initial post is trying to figure out if "other people are doing it" (asking professors for recs now) because it's not clear to me that they actually are.


hey friends. i have no sense how many 2020ers are actively seeking, and i should disclaimer this by saying that i'm definitely not invested enough to already be applying. i'm just gonna wait until next summer and hope for the best (#gunner). the general gameplan i've heard for those seeking is to explain your situation to your potential recommender and then feel out whether they'd be willing to fudge for you; if they're reluctant to do so, ask them if they would be willing to hypothetically take calls from a judge for you. manning just encouraged faculty not to write or make calls, so the ideais that most faculty would still be willing to accept calls from judges. if they're cool with that, then just note somewhere in your app (cover letter, i suppose?) that HLS is supporting the plan but your recommenders have agreed to take phone calls regarding your application and provide their info. it's a little bit more work for the judge, but if she's interested in your application she'd hopefully be gracious enough to pick up the phone to hear from your recommender. ideally this attack plan will work for those of us in the lowly non-Sears population. happy hunting!

hlsboi2020

New
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2018 11:19 pm

Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby hlsboi2020 » Sun Aug 05, 2018 6:52 pm

ptlgd17 wrote:
hlsboi2020 wrote:
Pneumonia wrote:
hlsboi2020 wrote:Hi 2020ers. I am hoping we can share at least tiny bits of information with each other about the new hiring timeline. I was initially really happy about Manning's announcement....but have started hearing that some professors might be breaking Manning's "requested policy" about waiting to recommend people for clerkships until the new, post-2L June date. If some professors are disregarding the policy, that probably means that most HLS students (who don't have recommenders breaking the "rules") are actually going to be in the worst of both worlds, worse off than the shitty anarchy of before. So we should at least know what is going on. (TBH, if HLS actually wanted this policy to be serious, they should've imposed a threatened penalty on students who apply early, rather than a "firm suggestion" to faculty, who don't give a shit...)

I realize that anyone who is exceptional will not be willing to share identifying information about professors departing from the policy but...to the extent that we can, shall we share info about this with each other? The clerkship office is already clearly pulling some BS with this hiring plan. As in, wink-wink, nod-nods, about applying before the new date. So it's impossible to ask them about whether there are any circumstances when a student should ask a professor to bend the rules (is it only acceptable for professors to bend the rules when they are the ones initiating the proposition? and so on). They will answer with a double, triple, quadruple negative. "Well, we're not, not, not, not, not, saying that you can't apply now...if you weren't to not, not, not, neglect to approach a professor about this, and if a judge wasn't not not interested in you for some reason..."

Any info to share on this issue? For instance, I've heard Fed Soc is encouraging its members to find judges who aren't on the plan and apply early. But does this mean they're going to go ask professors to break the "rules" for them?

You should assume that at least some professors are ignoring the dean's suggestion for at least some students. The clerkship office is really good about helping Sears candidates. But if you're more of an an average clerkship applicant I'd recommend just doing research yourself and asking for professor recommendations yourself etc. The worst a prof can say is "no." Your defense is that other people are doing it and the school's policy is just "encouragement" to begin with.


Thanks for your response. Seems like a good assessment. I guess part of my initial post is trying to figure out if "other people are doing it" (asking professors for recs now) because it's not clear to me that they actually are.


hey friends. i have no sense how many 2020ers are actively seeking, and i should disclaimer this by saying that i'm definitely not invested enough to already be applying. i'm just gonna wait until next summer and hope for the best (#gunner). the general gameplan i've heard for those seeking is to explain your situation to your potential recommender and then feel out whether they'd be willing to fudge for you; if they're reluctant to do so, ask them if they would be willing to hypothetically take calls from a judge for you. manning just encouraged faculty not to write or make calls, so the ideais that most faculty would still be willing to accept calls from judges. if they're cool with that, then just note somewhere in your app (cover letter, i suppose?) that HLS is supporting the plan but your recommenders have agreed to take phone calls regarding your application and provide their info. it's a little bit more work for the judge, but if she's interested in your application she'd hopefully be gracious enough to pick up the phone to hear from your recommender. ideally this attack plan will work for those of us in the lowly non-Sears population. happy hunting!


I very much appreciate this take. I will probably take the same approach (waiting until next summer) unless it starts seeming like tons of people are applying earlier.

User avatar
khaosan17

New
Posts: 13
Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2018 3:00 am

Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby khaosan17 » Wed Aug 08, 2018 3:03 am

Does anyone know how to get model answers to practice exam questions given out by HLS professors?

Thanks a bunch from a rising 1L.

User avatar
Pneumonia

Gold
Posts: 1934
Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2012 3:05 pm

Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby Pneumonia » Wed Aug 08, 2018 11:24 am

khaosan17 wrote:Does anyone know how to get model answers to practice exam questions given out by HLS professors?

Thanks a bunch from a rising 1L.

What do you mean? Are you saying that even though school hasn't started yet, you've found some practice exams somehow and want to look at model answers? There may not be any. I only had one professor during all of HLS that gave our a practice exam. I don't think its a typical thing.

User avatar
cannonballer

Bronze
Posts: 248
Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2015 4:42 pm

Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby cannonballer » Wed Aug 08, 2018 11:34 am

Pneumonia wrote:
khaosan17 wrote:Does anyone know how to get model answers to practice exam questions given out by HLS professors?

Thanks a bunch from a rising 1L.

What do you mean? Are you saying that even though school hasn't started yet, you've found some practice exams somehow and want to look at model answers? There may not be any. I only had one professor during all of HLS that gave our a practice exam. I don't think its a typical thing.


Agreed - practice exam questions are not that common, and if your professor gives one they will likely either provide model answers or go over what they expect in class. If you really want to look at exams from your professors, which is completely unnecessary before school even begins, go on toodope.org and you'll find actual exam answers to old exams that you can match to the exam questions in the exam bank. And if you do decide to do that, I recommend looking at the oldest ones you find bc you want to save the more recent ones for when you're actually studying and taking practice exams. But seriously, it's way too early for this - enjoy your last weeks of freedom before 1L begins.

User avatar
khaosan17

New
Posts: 13
Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2018 3:00 am

Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby khaosan17 » Thu Aug 09, 2018 1:34 am

cannonballer wrote:
Pneumonia wrote:
khaosan17 wrote:Does anyone know how to get model answers to practice exam questions given out by HLS professors?

Thanks a bunch from a rising 1L.

What do you mean? Are you saying that even though school hasn't started yet, you've found some practice exams somehow and want to look at model answers? There may not be any. I only had one professor during all of HLS that gave our a practice exam. I don't think its a typical thing.


Agreed - practice exam questions are not that common, and if your professor gives one they will likely either provide model answers or go over what they expect in class. If you really want to look at exams from your professors, which is completely unnecessary before school even begins, go on toodope.org and you'll find actual exam answers to old exams that you can match to the exam questions in the exam bank. And if you do decide to do that, I recommend looking at the oldest ones you find bc you want to save the more recent ones for when you're actually studying and taking practice exams. But seriously, it's way too early for this - enjoy your last weeks of freedom before 1L begins.


Thank you! I was referring to practice exams available on
https://guides.library.harvard.edu/c.ph ... &p=3143793

So many past exams, but few model answers. Thanks for telling me about the website.

User avatar
cannonballer

Bronze
Posts: 248
Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2015 4:42 pm

Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby cannonballer » Thu Aug 09, 2018 9:58 am

khaosan17 wrote:
Thank you! I was referring to practice exams available on
https://guides.library.harvard.edu/c.ph ... &p=3143793

So many past exams, but few model answers. Thanks for telling me about the website.


Yeah those are actual past exams, not practice exams. TooDope is the only place I know of that you're going to find answers to them. Make sure to realize that those answers aren't model answers, they're actual student submissions that were typed under exam conditions - even an H or a DS answer could (and likely will) have mistakes in it. And seriously, don't spend time now looking at recent exams/answers because that will only be to your detriment when you're actually studying for the course.

User avatar
Pneumonia

Gold
Posts: 1934
Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2012 3:05 pm

Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby Pneumonia » Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:17 am

khaosan17 wrote: Thank you! I was referring to practice exams available on
https://guides.library.harvard.edu/c.ph ... &p=3143793

So many past exams, but few model answers. Thanks for telling me about the website.

You really, really don't want to be doing this. It is a bad idea. You don't which material the professors that gave those exams taught. Casebooks have hundreds of cases, and each professor teaches only a portion of them and in their own order, in most cases changing the cases and the order from year to year. There are broad themes, but looking at exams and answers won't reveal those to you. If you insist on using this time productively, read getting to maybe, open book, bramble bush, and Garner's books on legal writing.

User avatar
cannonballer

Bronze
Posts: 248
Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2015 4:42 pm

Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby cannonballer » Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:57 am

Pneumonia wrote:
khaosan17 wrote: Thank you! I was referring to practice exams available on
https://guides.library.harvard.edu/c.ph ... &p=3143793

So many past exams, but few model answers. Thanks for telling me about the website.

You really, really don't want to be doing this. It is a bad idea. You don't which material the professors that gave those exams taught. Casebooks have hundreds of cases, and each professor teaches only a portion of them and in their own order, in most cases changing the cases and the order from year to year. There are broad themes, but looking at exams and answers won't reveal those to you. If you insist on using this time productively, read getting to maybe, open book, bramble bush, and Garner's books on legal writing.


Yeah in case it wasn't clear, I completely agree with Pneumonia - whatever you're trying to do with past exams right now is not going to be helpful at all.

User avatar
khaosan17

New
Posts: 13
Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2018 3:00 am

Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby khaosan17 » Thu Aug 09, 2018 12:39 pm

Pneumonia wrote:
khaosan17 wrote: Thank you! I was referring to practice exams available on
https://guides.library.harvard.edu/c.ph ... &p=3143793

So many past exams, but few model answers. Thanks for telling me about the website.

You really, really don't want to be doing this. It is a bad idea. You don't which material the professors that gave those exams taught. Casebooks have hundreds of cases, and each professor teaches only a portion of them and in their own order, in most cases changing the cases and the order from year to year. There are broad themes, but looking at exams and answers won't reveal those to you. If you insist on using this time productively, read getting to maybe, open book, bramble bush, and Garner's books on legal writing.


Okay thanks! I'll check out the material you mentioned.

User avatar
khaosan17

New
Posts: 13
Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2018 3:00 am

Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby khaosan17 » Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:37 am

Any current/former students who recently (after the 2017 summer renovations) lived at Hastings Hall?

I've looked at the pictures and the blueprint, but I'm having some serious second thoughts.. (opt for off campus housing?).

Would you recommend it to a dear friend? Are the bathrooms clean? Do you regret having lived there?

Thank you rising 2Ls/3Ls for answering our questions -- hope the actual school is as warm and collegial as it is here!

Veil of Ignorance

Bronze
Posts: 325
Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2016 9:22 pm

Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby Veil of Ignorance » Sun Aug 12, 2018 3:29 pm

Hey how hard is it to land a market-paying 2L position, preferably not in NYC? I've been assuming that I could count on biglaw litigation to get me through my loans quickly, but maybe that's presumptuous? I was just reading a 1L SA guide and it seems incredibly competitive.

Veil of Ignorance

Bronze
Posts: 325
Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2016 9:22 pm

Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby Veil of Ignorance » Sun Aug 12, 2018 6:28 pm

Specifically in Chicago with no ties (or very weak ties- my cousin lives there).

Could I "create" ties by getting a 1L summer job in Chicago?



Return to “Ask a Law Student / Graduate?

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Socratease and 8 guests