Top Law Schools

zil020511 wrote:How is Boston? Is it an area where you can find internships during the fall or spring easily? How is the weather and how does the weather impact going out or studying outside your living areas? Thanks.

Most people don't do off-campus internships during the academic year. If you're interested in getting practical experience during the semester usually you would do a clinic (some of which place you in nonprofits off campus).

mn40 wrote:Any tips for working with an LRW partner who is putting in almost no work (I had to basically do the entire outline myself)? Should I just try to make my half of the brief as good as possible and hope that our Climenko is willing to consider giving separate grades? Otherwise, I'm thinking that I would need to basically write huge chunks my partner's half (he hasn't done anything other than find one, not-so-useful case so far) to have any shot at an H.

I would talk to your partner about the issue...if that doesn't seem to make any difference, find a way to tactfully let your climenko or BSA know. As for grading, it depends climenko to climenko.

Indifference wrote:

mn40 wrote:Any tips for working with an LRW partner who is putting in almost no work (I had to basically do the entire outline myself)? Should I just try to make my half of the brief as good as possible and hope that our Climenko is willing to consider giving separate grades? Otherwise, I'm thinking that I would need to basically write huge chunks my partner's half (he hasn't done anything other than find one, not-so-useful case so far) to have any shot at an H.

I would talk to your partner about the issue...if that doesn't seem to make any difference, find a way to tactfully let your climenko or BSA know. As for grading, it depends climenko to climenko.

ugh doesnt everything differ climenko to climenko :/

Can your grade be affected in any way in a 1l class if the professor says attendance is required and you miss quite a few classes?

mrpeanutbutter wrote:Can your grade be affected in any way in a 1l class if the professor says attendance is required and you miss quite a few classes?

Not unless attendance is listed as a grading input in the syllabus.

Is there no official graduation photo at HLS?

How many hours ballpark would one sink into the HLR write-on?

Not sold on applying, but would view as option value if I do (do the work but low stress).

LHS17 wrote:How many hours ballpark would one sink into the HLR write-on?

Not sold on applying, but would view as option value if I do (do the work but low stress).

Don't do it as option value. The write on for law review is nothing compared to being on law review.

LHS17 wrote:How many hours ballpark would one sink into the HLR write-on?

Not sold on applying, but would view as option value if I do (do the work but low stress).

I think it's hard to estimate/calibrate hours, because everyone is a little different, it's hard to know what your peers are doing, etc. When I was in your position, I was deciding between "whatever it takes to do work I'm satisfied with" and "I'll take the week off, thanks." "Half in" or "in but only with the understanding that it's a 50 hour commitment" seemed like the worst of both -- effectively waste a week anyway, but fail to maximize my chances. I guess I'm not sure that's the best advice, but it made sense to me. In any event, I think I spent 70 hours or more -- then again I wasn't keeping track and I can't remember the details.

Anyone familiar with outcomes for the unfortunate students that end up in the bottom rung after 1L (i.e. with more than one LP?) It's a scary thought to contemplate what could happen if you're not at least median for a 0L weighing going to sticker to HLS for PI over decent $ at CCN... Do you think being below median at HLS carries a non-marginal difference in outcomes over a similar circumstance at CCN?

njames1961 wrote:Anyone familiar with outcomes for the unfortunate students that end up in the bottom rung after 1L (i.e. with more than one LP?) It's a scary thought to contemplate what could happen if you're not at least median for a 0L weighing going to sticker to HLS for PI over decent $ at CCN... Do you think being below median at HLS carries a non-marginal difference in outcomes over a similar circumstance at CCN?

Better to be below median at HLS than at CCN. As long as you're willing to have a little flexibility in what you're looking for, it's fine. Getting a top-tier firm in DC would be quite a challenge with multiple LPs. However, I spoke with a recruiter at one of the top 10 in Chicago who made it clear that they would definitely go for multiple LP HLS candidates because they simply couldn't get enough HLS students to apply. Obviously if you are willing to look beyond Vault rankings, you have even more options.

At what point (in terms of grades) does it become likely that doing the write-on competition for LR would be a waste of time? I get the sense that the top 10% or so get LR. If I have 3Hs/2Ps from the fall (which I guess puts me a tiny bit above median), is it just not worth it?

mn40 wrote:At what point (in terms of grades) does it become likely that doing the write-on competition for LR would be a waste of time? I get the sense that the top 10% or so get LR. If I have 3Hs/2Ps from the fall (which I guess puts me a tiny bit above median), is it just not worth it?

22 of the 48 slots are given on the basis of the applicant's write-on competition score alone, so if you're interested in HLR you should take the competition regardless of your grades! https://harvardlawreview.org/about/

By the way, unrelated to HLR: 3H/2P is very solidly above median. Conventional wisdom is that 3H/7P is roughly median for all of 1L year.

radio1nowhere wrote:

mn40 wrote:At what point (in terms of grades) does it become likely that doing the write-on competition for LR would be a waste of time? I get the sense that the top 10% or so get LR. If I have 3Hs/2Ps from the fall (which I guess puts me a tiny bit above median), is it just not worth it?

22 of the 48 slots are given on the basis of the applicant's write-on competition score alone, so if you're interested in HLR you should take the competition regardless of your grades! https://harvardlawreview.org/about/

By the way, unrelated to HLR: 3H/2P is very solidly above median. Conventional wisdom is that 3H/7P is roughly median for all of 1L year.

Just want to very strongly second radio1nowhere on doing the competition. Those 22 spots truly are 100 percent blindly graded with no reference to who the applicant is or what their grades are, so there are no grades you can have that would make the write-on a waste of time, if you want to do law review.

Also: agree that those grades actually put you well above median for someone with one semester of grades.

agnes_bean wrote:

radio1nowhere wrote:

mn40 wrote:At what point (in terms of grades) does it become likely that doing the write-on competition for LR would be a waste of time? I get the sense that the top 10% or so get LR. If I have 3Hs/2Ps from the fall (which I guess puts me a tiny bit above median), is it just not worth it?

22 of the 48 slots are given on the basis of the applicant's write-on competition score alone, so if you're interested in HLR you should take the competition regardless of your grades! https://harvardlawreview.org/about/

By the way, unrelated to HLR: 3H/2P is very solidly above median. Conventional wisdom is that 3H/7P is roughly median for all of 1L year.

Just want to very strongly second radio1nowhere on doing the competition. Those 22 spots truly are 100 percent blindly graded with no reference to who the applicant is or what their grades are, so there are no grades you can have that would make the write-on a waste of time, if you want to do law review.

Also: agree that those grades actually put you well above median for someone with one semester of grades.

Actually, HLR does not do blind admissions even if the initial segment of their process is blind grading. They take gender and race into account. It's apparently a new-ish policy, but ask them/look at their website. They are pretty clear and upfront about shifting to a gender/race affirmative action policy.

Splurgles23 wrote:

agnes_bean wrote:

radio1nowhere wrote:

mn40 wrote:At what point (in terms of grades) does it become likely that doing the write-on competition for LR would be a waste of time? I get the sense that the top 10% or so get LR. If I have 3Hs/2Ps from the fall (which I guess puts me a tiny bit above median), is it just not worth it?

22 of the 48 slots are given on the basis of the applicant's write-on competition score alone, so if you're interested in HLR you should take the competition regardless of your grades! https://harvardlawreview.org/about/
By the way, unrelated to HLR: 3H/2P is very solidly above median. Conventional wisdom is that 3H/7P is roughly median for all of 1L year.

Just want to very strongly second radio1nowhere on doing the competition. Those 22 spots truly are 100 percent blindly graded with no reference to who the applicant is or what their grades are, so there are no grades you can have that would make the write-on a waste of time, if you want to do law review.

Also: agree that those grades actually put you well above median for someone with one semester of grades.

Actually, HLR does not do blind admissions even if the initial segment of their process is blind grading. They take gender and race into account. It's apparently a new-ish policy, but ask them/look at their website. They are pretty clear and upfront about shifting to a gender/race affirmative action policy.

Wrong. Please read with a little more care:

Twenty-two editors are selected based solely on their competition scores. Seven editors, one from each 1L section, shall be selected based on an equally weighted combination of competition scores and 1L grades. Three editors shall be selected based on an equally weighted combination of competition scores and 1L grades, without regard to section. Sixteen editors shall be selected through a holistic but anonymous review that takes into account all available information.

Characteristics like racial or ethnic identity, physical disability status, gender identity, sexual orientation, and socioeconomic status are only taken into account for 16 of 48 slots, and even there it's only one factor among many considered in the holistic review process. At the end of the day, as agnes_bean and I got at earlier: No one should count themselves out! Everyone who is interested in HLR should take the competition.

mn40 wrote:At what point (in terms of grades) does it become likely that doing the write-on competition for LR would be a waste of time? I get the sense that the top 10% or so get LR. If I have 3Hs/2Ps from the fall (which I guess puts me a tiny bit above median), is it just not worth it?

So re: HLR competiton, is there any discernible average number of write on packets that get completed year to year? And am I correct in reading the "grades factored in" spots to be for kids who write on kind of well but gunned out of 1L ready for the Sears Prize? (Chiming in as a more painfully average 1L with 2H/3P out of fall semester)

ptlgd17 wrote:

mn40 wrote:At what point (in terms of grades) does it become likely that doing the write-on competition for LR would be a waste of time? I get the sense that the top 10% or so get LR. If I have 3Hs/2Ps from the fall (which I guess puts me a tiny bit above median), is it just not worth it?

So re: HLR competiton, is there any discernible average number of write on packets that get completed year to year? And am I correct in reading the "grades factored in" spots to be for kids who write on kind of well but gunned out of 1L ready for the Sears Prize? (Chiming in as a more painfully average 1L with 2H/3P out of fall semester)

# of packages: This information is not made public, but I had one professor tell me that it is ~300 people pick packets up, ~200 turn them in. No idea if that is correct.

"Grade on" spots: It's pretty unclear to me if these spots go to people with good grade who otherwise didn't have high enough write-on scores, or if they r just straight up go to the 10 people with the highest grades (who applied), many of whom I assume also had very good write-on scores. But yes, either way my guess would be you need very high grades for those spots.

Ms. Bunch wrote:

ptlgd17 wrote:

mn40 wrote:At what point (in terms of grades) does it become likely that doing the write-on competition for LR would be a waste of time? I get the sense that the top 10% or so get LR. If I have 3Hs/2Ps from the fall (which I guess puts me a tiny bit above median), is it just not worth it?

So re: HLR competiton, is there any discernible average number of write on packets that get completed year to year? And am I correct in reading the "grades factored in" spots to be for kids who write on kind of well but gunned out of 1L ready for the Sears Prize? (Chiming in as a more painfully average 1L with 2H/3P out of fall semester)

# of packages: This information is not made public, but I had one professor tell me that it is ~300 people pick packets up, ~200 turn them in. No idea if that is correct.

"Grade on" spots: It's pretty unclear to me if these spots go to people with good grade who otherwise didn't have high enough write-on scores, or if they r just straight up go to the 10 people with the highest grades (who applied), many of whom I assume also had very good write-on scores. But yes, either way my guess would be you need very high grades for those spots.

The website says: "Seven editors, one from each 1L section, shall be selected based on an equally weighted combination of competition scores and 1L grades. Three editors shall be selected based on an equally weighted combination of competition scores and 1L grades, without regard to section."

The 50/50 weighting leaves things more open than you'd think. Having top grades in your section is helpful, to be sure, but I suspect (without knowing) that the top five to ten students in a section have a fighting chance at a "grade-on" spot. Certainly no one should treat the competition as a formality: even Sears prize winners can be "caught" by those just below them for the "grade-on" spots, and after that, their written work goes in the pool with hundreds of other very credible entries and then who knows. (Their grades can be taken into account again for the 16 "all-things-considered" spots.) I'd guess that 2H/3P would put you out of the running for a grade-on spot, unless you have a very strong spring, but I think the point (for everyone) is to write the strongest competition you can and see what happens. Every path to LR requires a very strong competition score.

Does anyone have information on the cum laude cutoff last year?

I looked through this thread and found that the cutoff was 3.58 in 2014 and 3.62 in 2016. Last year someone missed it at 3.59 and someone got it at 3.66, so I'm wondering about the 3.60-3.65 range. I know the magna cut-off was higher than it has been before last year. Not enough data to say anything obviously, but I wonder if there's a general trend of grade inflation.

Class of 2017 thread died after their 1L summer--Any ideas on where to look other than that?

What is the predominant structure for the Criminal Law exam? Does it vary a lot by professor?

acz26 wrote:What is the predominant structure for the Criminal Law exam? Does it vary a lot by professor?

I think almost all Crim Law exams will have an issues spotter, but the rest of the details are going to be professor specific.

acz26 wrote:What is the predominant structure for the Criminal Law exam? Does it vary a lot by professor?

As with all exams, they completely vary by professor.

acz26 wrote:What is the predominant structure for the Criminal Law exam? Does it vary a lot by professor?

FYI You can read the actual questions from past years on the Registrar's website.

How commercial are Brennan and Abrams for tax? More interested in practical value of their advanced offerings (Corporate, Partnership) for someone interested in transactions, but not tax specifically. Am aware Warren is consensus favorite for basic Taxation.