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FascinatedWanderer wrote:What approximate class rank is 7H/3P after 1L at Harvard? (With one Dean's Scholar)?

That's a close to a 3.8 (more or less, depending on grades were LRW). We know that the magna cutoff (top 10%) at the end of 3L is usually a bit below 4.0, like 3.95 or something. We know the cum laude cutoff (top 40%) at the end of 3L is usually around 3.6. I estimated at one point that 2L/3L grades are higher than 1L grades by maybe an average of 1 H per year. So I'd estimate that 1 DS/6H/3P at the end of 1L is probably just a bit outside top 10%.

How reliable are reported grades for outlines/exam answers on TooDope?

Lordcarnus123 wrote:How reliable are reported grades for outlines/exam answers on TooDope?

There's not really an incentive to lie, so I'd say very reliable.

Does anyone know a good E&E for Parker's fourteenth? I was looking at this but was unsure b/c it's "individual rights" - haven't really been keeping up this semester so idk how well that'll fit the class. Thanks!

Hello! For 1L elective, is it a big deal to choose a 2-3 unit class versus a 4 unit black letter course? For employers/clerkships/etc.?

Thank you!

guppiesbaby wrote:Hello! For 1L elective, is it a big deal to choose a 2-3 unit class versus a 4 unit black letter course? For employers/clerkships/etc.?

Thank you!

For employers the answer is simple: take whatever will help you maximize the number of Hs on your transcript. This means avoiding the traditional four hour, black letter courses.

For clerkships the answer is mostly the same. One caveat is that if you're gunning for feeders, D.C. Cir., or other clerkships that are above average for COA competitiveness, then you might consider tailoring your elective accordingly. Usually this means taking something with an aura of rigor. Either con law course can be a good option, as can Jackson's "Comparative Con Law" (but for the latter, beware the reading). Judges like to talk about con law in interviews. The obvious downside is that you might get a P.

For both, good choices include most of the 2–3 hour options that show up under the "courses" tab on the catalog (i.e., the non Multi Section offerings). These are usually more like seminars, and Hs tend to be abundant.

It's at least possible that an interviewer will ask you why you took the elective that you took, but this is usually not a make-or-break question. It's just a conversation starter.

My advice is to take something that you're interested in, whether blackletter or not. For example, don't shy away from a crim pro class if you genuinely want to learn about criminal law, but don't take it just because you think you might apply to a prosecutor's office someday. You can take it as a 2L or, if necessary, as a 3L. Don't worry overly much about the number of credits, either, because that can be misleading; a 3-credit class isn't necessarily much easier than a 4-credit class. The number of credits is based on the number of hours the class meets per week, not the amount of work assigned. The type of class — seminar vs. blackletter vs. practical (e.g., Negotiation Workshop) — has more of an effect on what the class is like.

Pneumonia wrote:For clerkships the answer is mostly the same. One caveat is that if you're gunning for feeders, D.C. Cir., or other clerkships that are above average for COA competitiveness, then you might consider tailoring your elective accordingly. Usually this means taking something with an aura of rigor. Either con law course can be a good option, as can Jackson's "Comparative Con Law" (but for the latter, beware the reading). Judges like to talk about con law in interviews. The obvious downside is that you might get a P.

I took Jackson's comparative con law. It's a good class, and the reading, while heavy, is manageable because she doesn't really cold call. I can't say it's made an appreciable difference in my clerkship search, though, as it's never come up in an interview. It seems like a meaningful number of the class of 2019 people who got feeders over the summer took Goldsmith for international.

wubwubwub wrote: It seems like a meaningful number of the class of 2019 people who got feeders over the summer took Goldsmith for international.

This is true, but I'd guess it's more correlation than causation -- there were also a high number of people from that class who made law review; I think Goldsmith just attracts gunner types.

In general, I agree with tomwatts: just take what seems interesting. You're more likely to do well if you're in a class that motivates you, and ultimately the grade is going to make a bigger difference for both OCI and clerkships than the specific class. (For what it's worth I took a four credit blackletter class and loved it.)

agnes_bean wrote:

wubwubwub wrote: It seems like a meaningful number of the class of 2019 people who got feeders over the summer took Goldsmith for international.

This is true, but I'd guess it's more correlation than causation -- there were also a high number of people from that class who made law review; I think Goldsmith just attracts gunner types.

yup.

For reference, I took a deeply BS class as my elective and no one ever asked me about it in any job or clerkship interview. Life is hard enough as a 1L; take a class you think you’ll like.

wubwubwub wrote:

Pneumonia wrote:For clerkships the answer is mostly the same. One caveat is that if you're gunning for feeders, D.C. Cir., or other clerkships that are above average for COA competitiveness, then you might consider tailoring your elective accordingly. Usually this means taking something with an aura of rigor. Either con law course can be a good option, as can Jackson's "Comparative Con Law" (but for the latter, beware the reading). Judges like to talk about con law in interviews. The obvious downside is that you might get a P.

I took Jackson's comparative con law. It's a good class, and the reading, while heavy, is manageable because she doesn't really cold call. I can't say it's made an appreciable difference in my clerkship search, though, as it's never come up in an interview. It seems like a meaningful number of the class of 2019 people who got feeders over the summer took Goldsmith for international.

Yeah that makes sense. Goldsmith wasn't an option my year. I didn't realize he was doing the 1L elective on a regular basis.

guppiesbaby wrote:Hello! For 1L elective, is it a big deal to choose a 2-3 unit class versus a 4 unit black letter course? For employers/clerkships/etc.?

Thank you!

For top BIGLAW? Whatever you will get an H or DS in.

~Recruiting Senior

tonysoprano wrote:Does anyone know a good E&E for Parker's fourteenth? I was looking at this but was unsure b/c it's "individual rights" - haven't really been keeping up this semester so idk how well that'll fit the class. Thanks!

It won’t fit well - he basically does his own thing, and it’s difficult to connect what he teaches to what you read in cssss. I’d recommend reading his book (forget the exact name but it’s something like “populists manifesto”).

Is there any stock to the rumor that visiting profs can't give out LPs? Asking for a friend.

cannonballer wrote:Is there any stock to the rumor that visiting profs can't give out LPs? Asking for a friend.

Since no one else has answered: I seriously doubt it, but I don't have any solid information either way.

cannonballer wrote:Is there any stock to the rumor that visiting profs can't give out LPs? Asking for a friend.

I've heard that they can, but they have to petition in order to do so. I do know that tenured profs who give out lots of Lp's have been pressured to give less in the past though so it would probably have to be pretty bad in order for the visiting prof to successfully petition if that is how it actually works.

cannonballer wrote:Is there any stock to the rumor that visiting profs can't give out LPs? Asking for a friend.

I had an LP from a visiting professor. I also doubt the petition thing is true because she made pretty clear that it wasn't discretionary--meaning she thought she had to give some out-- and that I was not the only one who received it in the class. I honestly just think it depends on the professor.

LPs are something a lot of 1ls worry about, and I definitely did when I got mine. I know writing it here won't cause you to worry less but in retrospect it was not a big deal at all.

m&a workshop or negotiation workshop over j-term?

cannonballer wrote:Is there any stock to the rumor that visiting profs can't give out LPs? Asking for a friend.

It's interesting how common this notion is among us 1Ls. I wonder where it all started? I'm guessing the rumor spread so quickly b/c we all want it to be true?

knnet wrote:

cannonballer wrote:Is there any stock to the rumor that visiting profs can't give out LPs? Asking for a friend.

It's interesting how common this notion is among us 1Ls. I wonder where it all started? I'm guessing the rumor spread so quickly b/c we all want it to be true?

Lol that sounds about right!

How is a seminar course different than RG or a regular course?

appind wrote:How is a seminar course different than RG or a regular course?

Seminars are typically capped to 15-20 students and tend to involve more student participation and discussion than black-letter law lecture courses. Also there's a good chance a seminar will be graded on a final paper or a series of papers over the course of semester, as opposed to a final exam.

appind wrote:How is a seminar course different than RG or a regular course?

Different from reading group in that it's graded; different from black letter course in that there's usually no curve.

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