Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions Forum

[Pyrex]

Has anyone put together a spreadsheet model of LIPp to allow for scenario analysis?

*volunteers*

Can someone point me to the links with the data needed? Mostly I've only found general info.

[despina]

Has anyone put together a spreadsheet model of LIPp to allow for scenario analysis?

*volunteers*

Can someone point me to the links with the data needed? Mostly I've only found general info.

I'm not sure this would be possible, since there are so many different scenarios (assets, marriage, dependents, non-HLS debt, time off, etc).

But there's detailed information online.

The full salary scale is here: http://hls.harvard.edu/dept/sfs/lipp/pa ... tribution/
Asset protection formula is here: http://hls.harvard.edu/dept/sfs/lipp/assets-in-lipp/
Marriage and dependent info is here: http://hls.harvard.edu/dept/sfs/lipp/pa ... s-in-lipp/

[taxman14]

Wow all great points - do you have any suggestions about how I could get a better understanding of that bigger picture? Thanks!

I wish I did. Maybe others here have some thoughts? I mean, Getting to Maybe is a classic but isn't exactly what I had in mind. I've seen people link Wikipedia pages, like the page on "common law" for example, although it's not exactly an introduction in the way that I would want. And I've never seen any remotely comprehensive, honest, and clear-to-the-novice description of what different kinds of lawyers actually do.

I think the E&E for civ pro was really helpful for understanding what "suing" someone mean/looks like. No idea if it'll help me 1L, but it was an easy read, I feel like I actually have a clue how district courts, appellate courts, state courts operate. For "big picture" I think it was great, and I was glad I read it, even if I wasn't going to law school. I also read a Contracts Hornbook, without getting bogged down in specific cases or trying to "learn" it. That also went a long way toward opening my eyes to how things work.
Getting to Maybe was a quick, great read. I also read the book they sent me "Environmental Law" and found that I was able to comprehend it so much better because I'd read the Civ Pro E&E. This is all stuff I'm interested in. I doubt I'll read Crim Pro, for example, because I don't give a shit. But I'll probably read the property E&E, because, again, I find it interesting and it helps me wrap my head around what's going on.

Can you PM me the links to the PDFs or the books on Amazon. Just not sure which you're talking about

[taxman14]

Does anyone know how the base loan package works if you get the Harvard grant? I see that they make you take out the $49,800 in loans in order to receive that grant, but can you theoretically pay it back as soon as you want?

[CenterFringe]

Does anyone know how the base loan package works if you get the Harvard grant? I see that they make you take out the $49,800 in loans in order to receive that grant, but can you theoretically pay it back as soon as you want?

They don't make you take out loans. they just won't give grant money for the first 49k + 1/3 of total assets + expected parent contribution. They specifically say many people will use all of their assets the first year to save on total interest accumulated.

[taxman14]

Does anyone know how the base loan package works if you get the Harvard grant? I see that they make you take out the $49,800 in loans in order to receive that grant, but can you theoretically pay it back as soon as you want?

They don't make you take out loans. they just won't give grant money for the first 49k + 1/3 of total assets + expected parent contribution. They specifically say many people will use all of their assets the first year to save on total interest accumulated.

Huh - that's so confusing because I thought on the site you have to complete promissory loan forms etc that force you into the loans?

[Joscellin]

Do you have any knowledge as to where this would need to be Pref'd to get in? It's a small section and I imagine it's pretty popular?

I had it as my number one bid, but I don't think that's always necessary. For reference, I think there are only 12–14 seats in a given iteration.

Just wanted to update this for future knowledge.

I pref'd it (Burling - Adv. Legal Writing) 3 and got waitlisted - in 80th position. Looks like an absolute #1 if you want it.

Edit: Not obvious from the quotes what we were talking about. Fixed.

[Lalalsat96]

.

[Dcc617]

For any HLS student who chose H without any grant aid over another T-14 with a full ride or substantial scholarship, can you explain why u chose H full price? You can pm me if you prefer and the threat of 300k loans terrifies me but its Harvard

Don't do that. It's not the best idea. 300k in loans should absolutely terrify you. Take the money.

[tomwatts]

For any HLS student who chose H without any grant aid over another T-14 with a full ride or substantial scholarship, can you explain why u chose H full price? You can pm me if you prefer and the threat of 300k loans terrifies me but its Harvard

I chose HLS with not much grant aid over a full-tuition scholarship at NYU. A few of my considerations:

* I'm from California, and NYU's name doesn't reach quite as well that far away. This was compounded by the fact that I was pretty sure I was going into something niche in California. Employers who don't regularly hire from top law schools and who are in California don't know that NYU Law is almost as highly regarded as HLS.

* I wanted to do a joint degree, and Harvard's joint degrees are probably the most highly-regarded in the country.

* The fit was a lot better. The location and culture suited me much better at Harvard than at NYU.

For me, it was a good move. It wouldn't be for everyone. Also, people have talked about this earlier in the thread, e.g., page 120, if you want to see more responses from earlier.

[kdxsam]

Do we actually need the full $23,158 of living expenses for 9 months of school? That's Harvard's estimate, but in undergrad I spent 12k per academic year, including room and board.

Also, I second taxman14's question on taking out loans. It says we must take out the full amount before receiving grant, but can we pay it back right away?

[Lalalsat96]

For any HLS student who chose H without any grant aid over another T-14 with a full ride or substantial scholarship, can you explain why u chose H full price? You can pm me if you prefer and the threat of 300k loans terrifies me but its Harvard

I chose HLS with not much grant aid over a full-tuition scholarship at NYU. A few of my considerations:

* I'm from California, and NYU's name doesn't reach quite as well that far away. This was compounded by the fact that I was pretty sure I was going into something niche in California. Employers who don't regularly hire from top law schools and who are in California don't know that NYU Law is almost as highly regarded as HLS.

* I wanted to do a joint degree, and Harvard's joint degrees are probably the most highly-regarded in the country.

* The fit was a lot better. The location and culture suited me much better at Harvard than at NYU.

For me, it was a good move. It wouldn't be for everyone. Also, people have talked about this earlier in the thread, e.g., page 120, if you want to see more responses from earlier.

Thank you! I will check out the earlier posts and also its true that H reaches far and wide. I can't even imagine the intellectual engagement - super nerdy but it would be nice to not have grades really and just learn

[nothingtosee]

For any HLS student who chose H without any grant aid over another T-14 with a full ride or substantial scholarship, can you explain why u chose H full price? You can pm me if you prefer and the threat of 300k loans terrifies me but its Harvard

I chose HLS with not much grant aid over a full-tuition scholarship at NYU. A few of my considerations:

* I'm from California, and NYU's name doesn't reach quite as well that far away. This was compounded by the fact that I was pretty sure I was going into something niche in California. Employers who don't regularly hire from top law schools and who are in California don't know that NYU Law is almost as highly regarded as HLS.

* I wanted to do a joint degree, and Harvard's joint degrees are probably the most highly-regarded in the country.

* The fit was a lot better. The location and culture suited me much better at Harvard than at NYU.

For me, it was a good move. It wouldn't be for everyone. Also, people have talked about this earlier in the thread, e.g., page 120, if you want to see more responses from earlier.

Thank you! I will check out the earlier posts and also its true that H reaches far and wide. I can't even imagine the intellectual engagement - super nerdy but it would be nice to not have grades really and just learn

IMO HLS has a pretty anti/non-intellectual mainstream, and theoretical classes are fringe. The professors care about ideas; most students don't (although policy is hugely popular).

And IDK what school you're talking about that doesn't have grades. HLS's grades are weird, but easy for employers/judges to screen with. "We only hire people 3 H's" or "this judge needs all H's for you to have a chance"

[blueberrycrumble]

Does anyone know how the base loan package works if you get the Harvard grant? I see that they make you take out the $49,800 in loans in order to receive that grant, but can you theoretically pay it back as soon as you want?

They don't make you take out loans. they just won't give grant money for the first 49k + 1/3 of total assets + expected parent contribution. They specifically say many people will use all of their assets the first year to save on total interest accumulated.

Huh - that's so confusing because I thought on the site you have to complete promissory loan forms etc that force you into the loans?

CenterFringe is wrong. In order to receive any grant money, you are required to take out the base loan package, in any kind of mix of government loans, Harvard loans, and outside private loans (from banks etc.) depending on your situation. They will request documentation from you (a signed promissory note) that you have taken outside loans if you require them (i.e. your Harvard and government loans are less than the base loan amount). You cannot get away with not taking out the loans.

Source: doing financial aid the last two years in a row.

[tomwatts]

Do we actually need the full $23,158 of living expenses for 9 months of school? That's Harvard's estimate, but in undergrad I spent 12k per academic year, including room and board.

My actual cost of living was less than Harvard's estimated cost of living, possibly 5K-10K less. (I never exactly calculated.) I did live in the (cheap, tiny) Gropius dorms and mostly cook cheap food for myself, though.

Also, I second taxman14's question on taking out loans. It says we must take out the full amount before receiving grant, but can we pay it back right away?

I'm pretty sure you can make early repayments whenever you want. I got some emails during law school encouraging me to do exactly that.

Thank you! I will check out the earlier posts and also its true that H reaches far and wide. I can't even imagine the intellectual engagement - super nerdy but it would be nice to not have grades really and just learn

IMO HLS has a pretty anti/non-intellectual mainstream, and theoretical classes are fringe. The professors care about ideas; most students don't (although policy is hugely popular).

And IDK what school you're talking about that doesn't have grades. HLS's grades are weird, but easy for employers/judges to screen with. "We only hire people 3 H's" or "this judge needs all H's for you to have a chance"

Because of HLS's size, you can find kind of whatever you want here, so if you want intellectual engagement, you can get that, and if you want to tune out, you can find that too. (I wanted both, and I found both, generally with different people.)

Agreed on grades. HLS has obfuscated grades, not no grades. But if you're likely to apply to employers who either don't regularly hire from HLS or are not especially grade-focused and therefore don't want to go to the trouble of figuring out what your grades mean, obfuscated grades can be the same as no grades.

[Lalalsat96]

Do we actually need the full $23,158 of living expenses for 9 months of school? That's Harvard's estimate, but in undergrad I spent 12k per academic year, including room and board.

My actual cost of living was less than Harvard's estimated cost of living, possibly 5K-10K less. (I never exactly calculated.) I did live in the (cheap, tiny) Gropius dorms and mostly cook cheap food for myself, though.

Also, I second taxman14's question on taking out loans. It says we must take out the full amount before receiving grant, but can we pay it back right away?

I'm pretty sure you can make early repayments whenever you want. I got some emails during law school encouraging me to do exactly that.

Thank you! I will check out the earlier posts and also its true that H reaches far and wide. I can't even imagine the intellectual engagement - super nerdy but it would be nice to not have grades really and just learn

IMO HLS has a pretty anti/non-intellectual mainstream, and theoretical classes are fringe. The professors care about ideas; most students don't (although policy is hugely popular).

And IDK what school you're talking about that doesn't have grades. HLS's grades are weird, but easy for employers/judges to screen with. "We only hire people 3 H's" or "this judge needs all H's for you to have a chance"

Because of HLS's size, you can find kind of whatever you want here, so if you want intellectual engagement, you can get that, and if you want to tune out, you can find that too. (I wanted both, and I found both, generally with different people.)

Agreed on grades. HLS has obfuscated grades, not no grades. But if you're likely to apply to employers who either don't regularly hire from HLS or are not especially grade-focused and therefore don't want to go to the trouble of figuring out what your grades mean, obfuscated grades can be the same as no grades.

I know you have actual grades haha im not that ignorant. I was just trying to say that most law schools can be very competitive among the students it seems and ive heard on forums that HLS grading makes it less so adversarial among students which i would much like to hear if you agree to that point. It would be nice to just sit back Learn and not feel the kind of pressure I got in undergrad. Law school is hard anyhow

[tomwatts]

I know you have actual grades haha im not that ignorant. I was just trying to say that most law schools can be very competitive among the students it seems and ive heard on forums that HLS grading makes it less so adversarial among students which i would much like to hear if you agree to that point. It would be nice to just sit back Learn and not feel the kind of pressure I got in undergrad. Law school is hard anyhow

I definitely think that HLS isn't very grade-competitive, but I don't think it's because of the obfuscated grades. I think it's for two other reasons. First, we're at HLS, so all of us are going to be fine in the job market, regardless of grades. There's no reason to freak out about getting P's. Second, my friends weren't the sort to do anything unpleasant regarding grades. I mean, I generally had no idea what people's grades were until they graduated, except sometimes in a very general way (for example, I was pretty sure that one of my friends was doing well — after he graduated, I found out that he won the 2L Sears Prize and ended up clerking for Kagan, so I guess I was right).

It probably does help that we're not ranked (except for Latin honors at graduation). I could see that getting ugly.

[cantorb]

Do you have any knowledge as to where this would need to be Pref'd to get in? It's a small section and I imagine it's pretty popular?

I had it as my number one bid, but I don't think that's always necessary. For reference, I think there are only 12–14 seats in a given iteration.

Just wanted to update this for future knowledge.

I pref'd it (Burling - Adv. Legal Writing) 3 and got waitlisted - in 80th position. Looks like an absolute #1 if you want it.

Edit: Not obvious from the quotes what we were talking about. Fixed.

I pref'd it first and got 13th on the waitlist.

I wonder whether this is standard or there was higher demand this semester due to it being discussed here during the bidding period.

[Joscellin]

Do you have any knowledge as to where this would need to be Pref'd to get in? It's a small section and I imagine it's pretty popular?

I had it as my number one bid, but I don't think that's always necessary. For reference, I think there are only 12–14 seats in a given iteration.

Just wanted to update this for future knowledge.

I pref'd it (Burling - Adv. Legal Writing) 3 and got waitlisted - in 80th position. Looks like an absolute #1 if you want it.

Edit: Not obvious from the quotes what we were talking about. Fixed.

I pref'd it first and got 13th on the waitlist.

I wonder whether this is standard or there was higher demand this semester due to it being discussed here during the bidding period.

Yikes, sorry Hope there's some movement for you!

That would be interesting, if discussions here ITT could move bid preferencing that much.

[kdxsam]

Do we actually need the full $23,158 of living expenses for 9 months of school? That's Harvard's estimate, but in undergrad I spent 12k per academic year, including room and board.

My actual cost of living was less than Harvard's estimated cost of living, possibly 5K-10K less. (I never exactly calculated.) I did live in the (cheap, tiny) Gropius dorms and mostly cook cheap food for myself, though.

Also, I second taxman14's question on taking out loans. It says we must take out the full amount before receiving grant, but can we pay it back right away?

I'm pretty sure you can make early repayments whenever you want. I got some emails during law school encouraging me to do exactly that.

Thanks, that's really good to know! I'd much prefer spending all my savings in the first year and reduce the borrowing, to lessen the accrued interest.

[heythatslife]

Do we actually need the full $23,158 of living expenses for 9 months of school? That's Harvard's estimate, but in undergrad I spent 12k per academic year, including room and board.

As tomwatts has said, if you are in Gropius you can easily live under $2k/month. The cheapest Gropius room is $838 per month, and a budget of $1k per month should allow you to go out to dine/drink occasionally and cover other discretionary purchases. CoL in Cambridge is more expensive than in most areas in the US and I got a sticker shock initially transitioning from a rural collegetown previously.

[MyNameIsFlynn!]

Do we actually need the full $23,158 of living expenses for 9 months of school? That's Harvard's estimate, but in undergrad I spent 12k per academic year, including room and board.

Also, I second taxman14's question on taking out loans. It says we must take out the full amount before receiving grant, but can we pay it back right away?

As with everything, it depends. Living in a dorm will save you a couple thousand per academic year - the cheapest off-campus apartments cost about 12-1400/mo. And most people pay closer to 15-1600/mo. Food and alcohol budgets also vary dramatically. If your m.o. Is to get sloppy at Deadalus / Kong on a regular basis that might be $50-100 per night.

As for the question about 300k vs a full scholarship to a T14, you should take the money and run. The outcomes for H vs a decent student at another T14 are too similar to justify spending that much for the H name.

[Dcc617]

Do we actually need the full $23,158 of living expenses for 9 months of school? That's Harvard's estimate, but in undergrad I spent 12k per academic year, including room and board.

Also, I second taxman14's question on taking out loans. It says we must take out the full amount before receiving grant, but can we pay it back right away?

As with everything, it depends. Living in a dorm will save you a couple thousand per academic year - the cheapest off-campus apartments cost about 12-1400/mo. And most people pay closer to 15-1600/mo. Food and alcohol budgets also vary dramatically. If your m.o. Is to get sloppy at Deadalus / Kong on a regular basis that might be $50-100 per night.

As for the question about 300k vs a full scholarship to a T14, you should take the money and run. The outcomes for H vs a decent student at another T14 are too similar to justify spending that much for the H name.

I honestly think that 300K in debt is a bad outcome per se.

[TripTrip]

Do we actually need the full $23,158 of living expenses for 9 months of school? That's Harvard's estimate, but in undergrad I spent 12k per academic year, including room and board.

My actual cost of living was less than Harvard's estimated cost of living, possibly 5K-10K less. (I never exactly calculated.) I did live in the (cheap, tiny) Gropius dorms and mostly cook cheap food for myself, though.

Also, I second taxman14's question on taking out loans. It says we must take out the full amount before receiving grant, but can we pay it back right away?

I'm pretty sure you can make early repayments whenever you want. I got some emails during law school encouraging me to do exactly that.

Thanks, that's really good to know! I'd much prefer spending all my savings in the first year and reduce the borrowing, to lessen the accrued interest.

FYI if you payback within the loan cancellation window (by Januaryish depending on dispersement), all the accrued interest is cancelled. So you can feel free to take out more than you need without stressing about wasted interest.

[cam89]

Does anyone have experience with Kraakman, Coates, or Ramseyer for corporations? They are all teaching in the fall and wanted to hear some thoughts. (J. Fried has a huge waitlist)