Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions Forum

[tomwatts]

I'm just not sure if it sends the wrong message to not take a black letter class for 1L elective.

I can't say that I know the details of firm hiring in your area of interest, but I would be surprised if it mattered whether you took a serious elective or a multi-section. Environmental Law is still essentially blackletter in the same way that Evidence is (although it's not as broadly applicable). Something that seems sort of fluffy/academic ("Becoming a Law Professor" or "Law and Neuroscience" or "Constitutional History") could potentially raise some eyebrows, but for different reasons. Something energy-related if you want to do energy seems pretty safe.

But also, I went through EIP and got some decent offers even after having a really weird transcript (1L elective was "History of Legal Education," plus I had a year of MPP classes with names like "The Responsibilities of Public Action"), so even fluffy/weird classes are not an absolute bar.

[anrf1225]

.

[Dcc617]

this might be a very basic question, but whats the deal with the January term? is it all three years or can you skip one?

First year is Problem Solving Workshop, which is super dumb. Other two years you can apparently take a 3 week course, do clinical stuff, independent study, do academic work abroad, etc.

J term is dumb though.

[Person1111]

No one cares what your 1L elective is unless it is something totally frivolous (and even then, it probably doesn't matter). Getting an H in "Nietzsche, Real Housewives, and the Law" your 1L Spring going to do more for you than getting a P in Admin.

[Person1111]

I took it 2L spring (also with Jackson) and felt totally prepared. I liked her a lot. I had Manning for LegReg and also liked him. They're very different. You read a very high volume of cases in Jackson's class, for whatever that's worth.

I echo the suggestion not to take it at the same time as administrative law unless you have a death wish. You should take 14th Amendment first - much of the class won't make sense without it. Admin and 4th/5th/6th are also useful. By and large, though, you don't need to take other classes before it - the substantive law is basically just window dressing.

I didn't mean to say that any course is needed prior to Fed Courts. What I was trying to say is that Fed Courts is unique in that other courses are helpful to have taken first. Those you mentioned are among them, as is conflicts. Absent a compelling need to take it 2L, it overall makes sense to take it after 14th etc. because the other courses are going to help you in Fed Courts, but Fed Courts isn't going to help you understand e.g. Corporations or Conflicts. That's not a strong argument for taking it 3L, but I think it's worth considering. There's a reason that most people take it 3L. It's a capstone course.

And I'll also 100% agree with everyone who's said that the course varies by professor. Field, for example, gives a three hour in class exam. Jackson assigns a ton of reading and expects you to understand the background substantive law (she said this a lot in my version of the class). Manning does his own thing. Idk what Fallon's course is like. Visiting professors sometimes teach it too. But for all of them, I think the scale tips toward taking 3L rather than 2L.

Yeah, I mean, I think we just need to agree to disagree. I will say that there were courses I took 3L (Complex Litigation is a great example) that made much more sense after taking fed courts. But you're right that other substantive courses will probably help you in fed courts more than vice versa.

[lawlorbust]

this might be a very basic question, but whats the deal with the January term? is it all three years or can you skip one?

1L: Mandatory PSW.
2L / 3L: Totally up to you. You need to take credits but most people sign up for a paper requirement that doesn't need them to be on campus.

[malleus discentium]

No one cares what your 1L elective is unless it is something totally frivolous (and even then, it probably doesn't matter). Getting an H in "Nietzsche, Real Housewives, and the Law" your 1L Spring going to do more for you than getting a P in Admin.

This is the important reason not to take admin (or, in my estimation, any other big-ticket BLL class) as a 1L. Your 1L grades really matter and you should prioritize getting an H over really anything else for your free elective.

[anrf1225]

.

[TripTrip]

No one cares what your 1L elective is unless it is something totally frivolous (and even then, it probably doesn't matter). Getting an H in "Nietzsche, Real Housewives, and the Law" your 1L Spring going to do more for you than getting a P in Admin.

This is the important reason not to take admin (or, in my estimation, any other big-ticket BLL class) as a 1L. Your 1L grades really matter and you should prioritize getting an H over really anything else for your free elective.

I can't share the data, but EIP callback statistics back this sentiment up rather rigorously.

Don't take BLL electives 1L unless you're gunning for the Sears prize.

[CenterFringe]

Thanks for the great advice everybody. I'll take the universal concurrence as a pretty clear sign of what the right decision is.

[Indifference]

On a scale of 1-10, how bad of an idea is taking Admin & Fed Courts in 3L spring? Admin is only offered in the Spring of next year, and I'm not sure how big of a difference Fed Courts with Field (fall) vs. Goldsmith or Fallon (Spring) is going to be...

[Joscellin]

On a scale of 1-10, how bad of an idea is taking Admin & Fed Courts in 3L spring? Admin is only offered in the Spring of next year, and I'm not sure how big of a difference Fed Courts with Field (fall) vs. Goldsmith or Fallon (Spring) is going to be...

I mean, just be prepared for a shit-ton of reading.

[heythatslife]

Admin with whom? Vermeule was very manageable, 50-60 pages a week.

[CenterFringe]

Anyone familiar with the sailing club or sailboat rentals? It looks like a pretty sweet setup except it seems like you can only rent boats May-September. Does this mean there is nothing going on most of the school year?

[jingosaur]

No one cares what your 1L elective is unless it is something totally frivolous (and even then, it probably doesn't matter). Getting an H in "Nietzsche, Real Housewives, and the Law" your 1L Spring going to do more for you than getting a P in Admin.

This is the important reason not to take admin (or, in my estimation, any other big-ticket BLL class) as a 1L. Your 1L grades really matter and you should prioritize getting an H over really anything else for your free elective.

+++++111111

Taking Negotiation Workshop instead of Analytical Methods for my 1L elective was my single biggest mistake of law school. And I liked Negotiation Workshop.

[Dcc617]

Anyone familiar with the sailing club or sailboat rentals? It looks like a pretty sweet setup except it seems like you can only rent boats May-September. Does this mean there is nothing going on most of the school year?

As of today it's still fucking winter in Cambridge, so.....

[CenterFringe]

Anyone familiar with the sailing club or sailboat rentals? It looks like a pretty sweet setup except it seems like you can only rent boats May-September. Does this mean there is nothing going on most of the school year?

As of today it's still fucking winter in Cambridge, so.....

Three years in Hawaii is really spoiling me.

[Orion311]

I know there is a bunch of info on this thread and Dope about "easy H" classes, but does anyone have recommendations for "easy DS" classes?

Of course, by "easy" I mean relatively, and this question calls for a lot of speculation based on anecdotes. For example, I'm aware that Rubenstein consistently gives something like 7-8 DSes for Civ Pro (though here I'm mostly asking for upper level course selection), and based on how many sample DS exam answers there were for Desai on HLSDope and knowledge about a few specific grades given in that class, I would speculate that he's also on the more generous side with DSes.

This obviously isn't going to be anyone's only consideration in course selection, but for people who need DSes for what they want to do (clerkships) it could be useful info.

[nothingtosee]

I know there is a bunch of info on this thread and Dope about "easy H" classes, but does anyone have recommendations for "easy DS" classes?

Of course, by "easy" I mean relatively, and this question calls for a lot of speculation based on anecdotes. For example, I'm aware that Rubenstein consistently gives something like 7-8 DSes for Civ Pro (though here I'm mostly asking for upper level course selection), and based on how many sample DS exam answers there were for Desai on HLSDope and knowledge about a few specific grades given in that class, I would speculate that he's also on the more generous side with DSes.

This obviously isn't going to be anyone's only consideration in course selection, but for people who need DSes for what they want to do (clerkships) it could be useful info.

I would recommend black letter sections with lots of llms

[jrf12886]

I know there is a bunch of info on this thread and Dope about "easy H" classes, but does anyone have recommendations for "easy DS" classes?

Of course, by "easy" I mean relatively, and this question calls for a lot of speculation based on anecdotes. For example, I'm aware that Rubenstein consistently gives something like 7-8 DSes for Civ Pro (though here I'm mostly asking for upper level course selection), and based on how many sample DS exam answers there were for Desai on HLSDope and knowledge about a few specific grades given in that class, I would speculate that he's also on the more generous side with DSes.

This obviously isn't going to be anyone's only consideration in course selection, but for people who need DSes for what they want to do (clerkships) it could be useful info.

It's so hard to predict this because its discretionary. I would think the best odds would be in very large classes (multiple DSs awarded) and very small classes (less competition for the DS). Class sizes in the middle would not be ideal. Note that a class must have at least 7 students for any DSs to be awarded.

[Pneumonia]

+++++111111

Taking Negotiation Workshop instead of Analytical Methods for my 1L elective was my single biggest mistake of law school. And I liked Negotiation Workshop.

Same.

[lawlorbust]

I know there is a bunch of info on this thread and Dope about "easy H" classes, but does anyone have recommendations for "easy DS" classes?

Of course, by "easy" I mean relatively, and this question calls for a lot of speculation based on anecdotes. For example, I'm aware that Rubenstein consistently gives something like 7-8 DSes for Civ Pro (though here I'm mostly asking for upper level course selection), and based on how many sample DS exam answers there were for Desai on HLSDope and knowledge about a few specific grades given in that class, I would speculate that he's also on the more generous side with DSes.

This obviously isn't going to be anyone's only consideration in course selection, but for people who need DSes for what they want to do (clerkships) it could be useful info.

I would recommend black letter sections with lots of llms

Don't necessarily disagree, but some LLM-heavy classes are trap classes. "Oh, you're taking introduction to international arbitration? And you were a practicing international arbitration lawyer for 6 years before coming to Harvard?"

[nothingtosee]

I know there is a bunch of info on this thread and Dope about "easy H" classes, but does anyone have recommendations for "easy DS" classes?

Of course, by "easy" I mean relatively, and this question calls for a lot of speculation based on anecdotes. For example, I'm aware that Rubenstein consistently gives something like 7-8 DSes for Civ Pro (though here I'm mostly asking for upper level course selection), and based on how many sample DS exam answers there were for Desai on HLSDope and knowledge about a few specific grades given in that class, I would speculate that he's also on the more generous side with DSes.

This obviously isn't going to be anyone's only consideration in course selection, but for people who need DSes for what they want to do (clerkships) it could be useful info.

I would recommend black letter sections with lots of llms

Don't necessarily disagree, but some LLM-heavy classes are trap classes. "Oh, you're taking introduction to international arbitration? And you were a practicing international arbitration lawyer for 6 years before coming to Harvard?"

Knowing how to take law school exams =/= knowing the law. And that class has easy curve.

[Dcc617]

I know there is a bunch of info on this thread and Dope about "easy H" classes, but does anyone have recommendations for "easy DS" classes?

Of course, by "easy" I mean relatively, and this question calls for a lot of speculation based on anecdotes. For example, I'm aware that Rubenstein consistently gives something like 7-8 DSes for Civ Pro (though here I'm mostly asking for upper level course selection), and based on how many sample DS exam answers there were for Desai on HLSDope and knowledge about a few specific grades given in that class, I would speculate that he's also on the more generous side with DSes.

This obviously isn't going to be anyone's only consideration in course selection, but for people who need DSes for what they want to do (clerkships) it could be useful info.

Gunner.

[neptunian]

Just wanna say thank you to tomwatts, triptrip, and all other current students/grads who have been around for a while. I started from pg 150 or something (a desperate measure to not write my senior thesis) and it's so sweet to find that you guys are still here answering questions. Hopefully I'll be able to meet some of you guys next semester.

One softball question: any chance that we're getting a new hls shield?