University of Houston and Southern Methodist LGBT Question Forum

[SEATTLEITE188]

Do you think including a diversity statement about lgbt hardship is a good idea for the University of Houston or Southern Methodist University? I know they are in relatively conservative areas of the country, and I do not want to put myself in a disadvantageous position when applying.....any advice would be great. Thanks!

[FunkyJD]

Do you think including a diversity statement about lgbt hardship is a good idea for the University of Houston or Southern Methodist University? I know they are in relatively conservative areas of the country, and I do not want to put myself in a disadvantageous position when applying.....any advice would be great. Thanks!

FWIW, Houston just elected an openly gay mayor. That's something neither New York, San Francisco, Los Angeles, Miami, or Washington has accomplished. Also, Barack Obama won Harris County, which is the county surrounding Houston. And my understanding is that the city of Dallas, while it's not to be confused with San Francisco, has a relatively thriving gay community.

I don't have any inside knowledge of the adcomms, but as a Texan, my sense is that you should include it. Texas will surprise you. When you look beyond the stereotypes, it's not as conservative a state in some ways as you may think. My feeling is that many Texans skew libertarian as opposed to hardcore religious conservative. Sure, there's a healthy number of social conservatives (as there are in many states), but remember, Texas is a big state, in population as well as in size. We don't all think alike.

Having said that, my advice might be different to you, were you to apply to Baylor. Dancing wasn't allowed on campus at Baylor until 1996.

Good luck to you. I've applied to both schools, so good luck to us both.

[FunkyJD]

Do you think including a diversity statement about lgbt hardship is a good idea for the University of Houston or Southern Methodist University? I know they are in relatively conservative areas of the country, and I do not want to put myself in a disadvantageous position when applying.....any advice would be great. Thanks!

PS -- Seattle's awesome. I miss getting hot chocolate chip cookies at the Dahlia Bakery, and raiding the used music and knick-knack stores with some Cafe Ladro in hand. And UW's campus, IMO, is just beautiful.

[jay115]

Do you think including a diversity statement about lgbt hardship is a good idea for the University of Houston or Southern Methodist University? I know they are in relatively conservative areas of the country, and I do not want to put myself in a disadvantageous position when applying.....any advice would be great. Thanks!

FWIW, Houston just elected an openly gay mayor. That's something neither New York, San Francisco, Los Angeles, Miami, or Washington has accomplished. Also, Barack Obama won Harris County, which is the county surrounding Houston. And my understanding is that the city of Dallas, while it's not to be confused with San Francisco, has a relatively thriving gay community.

I don't have any inside knowledge of the adcomms, but as a Texan, my sense is that you should include it. Texas will surprise you. When you look beyond the stereotypes, it's not as conservative a state in some ways as you may think. My feeling is that many Texans skew libertarian as opposed to hardcore religious conservative. Sure, there's a healthy number of social conservatives (as there are in many states), but remember, Texas is a big state, in population as well as in size. We don't all think alike.

Having said that, my advice might be different to you, were you to apply to Baylor. Dancing wasn't allowed on campus at Baylor until 1996.

Good luck to you. I've applied to both schools, so good luck to us both.

Oh dear - way to totally funnel in the stereotypical religious fanaticism of footloose.

[SEATTLEITE188]

Thanks! I did not know Houston elected a gay mayor. Is Southern Methodist a conservative school? I have been trying to figure out how religiously based the school is......also, Seattle is great....I went to UW for undergrad.....best time of my life!

[isaiah6v8]

Thanks! I did not know Houston elected a gay mayor. Is Southern Methodist a conservative school? I have been trying to figure out how religiously based the school is......also, Seattle is great....I went to UW for undergrad.....best time of my life!

From everything I have observed, SMU is far from religious. As for the Baylor bit, while it is true and provides a great laugh, the rule was a holdover that basically didn't allow the institution to host any dances, frats and sororities were all holding dances during that time. Still, Baylor is probably the most religious and conservative Law school in Texas, save maybe Texas Wesleyan(which I know very little about). Despite that, Baylor appears to be a very good law school and possibly the best school for litigation in the state.

[jay115]

Thanks! I did not know Houston elected a gay mayor. Is Southern Methodist a conservative school? I have been trying to figure out how religiously based the school is......also, Seattle is great....I went to UW for undergrad.....best time of my life!

Why are you applying to Texas when there are a bazillion other schools in more LGBT-friendly areas for you to attend law school? IMO UT-Austin is the only Texan law school that an LGBT kid is guaranteed a decent social life.

[FunkyJD]

Thanks! I did not know Houston elected a gay mayor. Is Southern Methodist a conservative school? I have been trying to figure out how religiously based the school is......also, Seattle is great....I went to UW for undergrad.....best time of my life!

Why are you applying to Texas when there are a bazillion other schools in more LGBT-friendly areas for you to attend law school? IMO UT-Austin is the only Texan law school that an LGBT kid is guaranteed a decent social life.

I respectfully disagree. Having lived in Los Angeles for four years, and also in Texas, I've heard the "f" word thrown around way more often in LA than I've heard it in Dallas.

[FunkyJD]

Baylor appears to be a very good law school and possibly the best school for litigation in the state.

I will say that my colleagues who practice law in Los Angeles know about Baylor's rep for producing good litigators ... so while I'm not saying that a Baylor JD is portable to the West Coast, that's just a little anecdote to support what you're saying. Having said that, I wouldn't spend three years in Waco.

[ec2xs]

I am applying to both schools. I haven't heard much from Houston, although this city is broad enough that there has to be a significant LGBT community. On the other hand, SMU has a surprising reputation for being LGBT-friendly. It's kind of a high school atmosphere at the undergraduate level, but I haven't heard anything negative about their LGBT attitudes.

I am not LGBT myself, but the majority of my softs are related to LGBT work. I think it would be a great idea to write the diversity statement, personally, since these schools would probably like to broaden their demographic.

Oh, yea, avoid Baylor at all costs.

EDIT: SMU has a religious foundation but it doesn't influence the teaching/atmosphere.

[jay115]

Thanks! I did not know Houston elected a gay mayor. Is Southern Methodist a conservative school? I have been trying to figure out how religiously based the school is......also, Seattle is great....I went to UW for undergrad.....best time of my life!

Why are you applying to Texas when there are a bazillion other schools in more LGBT-friendly areas for you to attend law school? IMO UT-Austin is the only Texan law school that an LGBT kid is guaranteed a decent social life.

I respectfully disagree. Having lived in Los Angeles for four years, and also in Texas, I've heard the "f" word thrown around way more often in LA than I've heard it in Dallas.

Not to get into an LGBT debate, but just by demographics alone, California is going to be more liberal towards LGBTs than Texas. When it comes down to cities, I'm sure it becomes more subjective. LA is very large --> I seriously doubt you're asserting that Dallas > WeHo or Westwood. If you're talking innercity LA, then of course it's bound to be more homophobic.

For OP's benefit: http://www.lsac.org/SpecialInterests/lgbt-chart.asp. According to LSAC's measurements, SMU is a fine place to go to school as an LGBT-identified student, but I would email some of their OUTlaw (or LAMBDA law) chairs and solicit their perspectives on the law school and surrounding communities.

[sirchristaylor]

I am applying to both schools. I haven't heard much from Houston, although this city is broad enough that there has to be a significant LGBT community. On the other hand, SMU has a surprising reputation for being LGBT-friendly. It's kind of a high school atmosphere at the undergraduate level, but I haven't heard anything negative about their LGBT attitudes.

I am not LGBT myself, but the majority of my softs are related to LGBT work. I think it would be a great idea to write the diversity statement, personally, since these schools would probably like to broaden their demographic.

Oh, yea, avoid Baylor at all costs.

EDIT: SMU has a religious foundation but it doesn't influence the teaching/atmosphere.

Houston has become a very open and somewhat liberal city, and it has a thriving gay community (and has had such a community for many years). Most Houstonians and many in the surrounding area could care less about your sexual orientation. I'd definitely include the diversity statement in your Houston application. Good luck!

[FunkyJD]

Not to get into an LGBT debate, but just by demographics alone, California is going to be more liberal towards LGBTs than Texas. When it comes down to cities, I'm sure it becomes more subjective. LA is very large --> I seriously doubt you're asserting that Dallas > WeHo or Westwood. If you're talking innercity LA, then of course it's bound to be more homophobic.

I won't belabor this, because this isn't the best forum to discuss this, but while WeHo is probably more accepting than Lubbock, Houston is more probably more accepting than Bakersfield. If California is going to be more liberal on this issue than Texas, what happened with Prop 8?

And I'm not talking about inner city LA. Having worked and lived in Hollywood, I'll assert that it can be fairly homophobic.

The point is that OP will be just fine, and shouldn't feel uncomfortable applying to SMU or UH.

[jay115]

Not to get into an LGBT debate, but just by demographics alone, California is going to be more liberal towards LGBTs than Texas. When it comes down to cities, I'm sure it becomes more subjective. LA is very large --> I seriously doubt you're asserting that Dallas > WeHo or Westwood. If you're talking innercity LA, then of course it's bound to be more homophobic.

I won't belabor this, because this isn't the best forum to discuss this, but while WeHo is probably more accepting than Lubbock, Houston is more probably more accepting than Bakersfield. If California is going to be more liberal on this issue than Texas, what happened with Prop 8?

And I'm not talking about inner city LA. Having worked and lived in Hollywood, I'll assert that it can be fairly homophobic.

The point is that OP will be just fine, and shouldn't feel uncomfortable applying to SMU or UH.

I have no horse in this race because I'm going to LA either way and one more gay in CA has no impact on me, but if gay marriage bans are an inverse barometer for LGBT tolerance:
Proposition 8 (California) passed by 52.2%
Proposition 2 (Texas) passed by 75.5%

So I suppose the better question is what happened to proposition 2 and the fact that less than 24% of the population supports equal rights?

Also, what law school is in Bakersfield?

[sirchristaylor]

Not to get into an LGBT debate, but just by demographics alone, California is going to be more liberal towards LGBTs than Texas. When it comes down to cities, I'm sure it becomes more subjective. LA is very large --> I seriously doubt you're asserting that Dallas > WeHo or Westwood. If you're talking innercity LA, then of course it's bound to be more homophobic.

I won't belabor this, because this isn't the best forum to discuss this, but while WeHo is probably more accepting than Lubbock, Houston is more probably more accepting than Bakersfield. If California is going to be more liberal on this issue than Texas, what happened with Prop 8?

And I'm not talking about inner city LA. Having worked and lived in Hollywood, I'll assert that it can be fairly homophobic.

The point is that OP will be just fine, and shouldn't feel uncomfortable applying to SMU or UH.

I have no horse in this race because I'm going to LA either way and one more gay in CA has no impact on me, but if gay marriage bans are an inverse barometer for LGBT tolerance:
Proposition 8 (California) passed by 52.2%
Proposition 2 (Texas) passed by 75.5%

So I suppose the better question is what happened to proposition 2 and the fact that less than 24% of the population supports equal rights?

Also, what law school is in Bakersfield?

Not to get into this too much, but that fewer than a quarter of Prop 2 voters supported equal rights at the time does not translate into a fact that less than a quarter of the Texas population supports equal rights. I don't know how many people actually voted (and abstentions may say something about the degree of support as well), but I'm certain it was not 100%. If you want to live in Texas, don't worry about telling the University of Houston that you're gay. You'll be fine.

[jay115]

Not to get into an LGBT debate, but just by demographics alone, California is going to be more liberal towards LGBTs than Texas. When it comes down to cities, I'm sure it becomes more subjective. LA is very large --> I seriously doubt you're asserting that Dallas > WeHo or Westwood. If you're talking innercity LA, then of course it's bound to be more homophobic.

I won't belabor this, because this isn't the best forum to discuss this, but while WeHo is probably more accepting than Lubbock, Houston is more probably more accepting than Bakersfield. If California is going to be more liberal on this issue than Texas, what happened with Prop 8?

And I'm not talking about inner city LA. Having worked and lived in Hollywood, I'll assert that it can be fairly homophobic.

The point is that OP will be just fine, and shouldn't feel uncomfortable applying to SMU or UH.

I have no horse in this race because I'm going to LA either way and one more gay in CA has no impact on me, but if gay marriage bans are an inverse barometer for LGBT tolerance:
Proposition 8 (California) passed by 52.2%
Proposition 2 (Texas) passed by 75.5%

So I suppose the better question is what happened to proposition 2 and the fact that less than 24% of the population supports equal rights?

Also, what law school is in Bakersfield?

Not to get into this too much, but that fewer than a quarter of Prop 2 voters supported equal rights at the time does not translate into a fact that less than a quarter of the Texas population supports equal rights. I don't know how many people actually voted (and abstentions may say something about the degree of support as well), but I'm certain it was not 100%. If you want to live in Texas, don't worry about telling the University of Houston that you're gay. You'll be fine.

What we're debating is not outing oneself to law schools (I think most law schools save Baylor, Ave Maria, and other crappy right-wing law schools are sympathetic to LGBT diversity statements), but rather whether California or Texas are more LGBT friendly. In other words, we're not debating the merits of telling the University of Houston that you're gay but rather if you want to live in Texas.

Abstentions/apathy do indeed say something about the degree of support in Texas, but I very much doubt it's a positive message. Just like I probably wouldn't associate with people who refused to vote either way on whether to decriminalize miscegenation laws prior to McLauglhin and Loving.

[sirchristaylor]

Not to get into an LGBT debate, but just by demographics alone, California is going to be more liberal towards LGBTs than Texas. When it comes down to cities, I'm sure it becomes more subjective. LA is very large --> I seriously doubt you're asserting that Dallas > WeHo or Westwood. If you're talking innercity LA, then of course it's bound to be more homophobic.

I won't belabor this, because this isn't the best forum to discuss this, but while WeHo is probably more accepting than Lubbock, Houston is more probably more accepting than Bakersfield. If California is going to be more liberal on this issue than Texas, what happened with Prop 8?

And I'm not talking about inner city LA. Having worked and lived in Hollywood, I'll assert that it can be fairly homophobic.

The point is that OP will be just fine, and shouldn't feel uncomfortable applying to SMU or UH.

I have no horse in this race because I'm going to LA either way and one more gay in CA has no impact on me, but if gay marriage bans are an inverse barometer for LGBT tolerance:
Proposition 8 (California) passed by 52.2%
Proposition 2 (Texas) passed by 75.5%

So I suppose the better question is what happened to proposition 2 and the fact that less than 24% of the population supports equal rights?

Also, what law school is in Bakersfield?

Not to get into this too much, but that fewer than a quarter of Prop 2 voters supported equal rights at the time does not translate into a fact that less than a quarter of the Texas population supports equal rights. I don't know how many people actually voted (and abstentions may say something about the degree of support as well), but I'm certain it was not 100%. If you want to live in Texas, don't worry about telling the University of Houston that you're gay. You'll be fine.

What we're debating is not outing oneself to law schools (I think most law schools save Baylor, Ave Maria, and other crappy right-wing law schools are sympathetic to LGBT diversity statements), but rather whether California or Texas are more LGBT friendly. In other words, we're not debating the merits of telling the University of Houston that you're gay but rather if you want to live in Texas.

Abstentions/apathy do indeed say something about the degree of support in Texas, but I very much doubt it's a positive message. Just like I probably wouldn't associate with people who refused to vote either way on whether to decriminalize miscegenation laws prior to McLauglhin and Loving.[/quote]

I understand what you're debating, but I was addressing two people here: 1) OP; 2) you. In your case, I was just pointing out that one of the conclusions to which you came was inaccurate.

[FunkyJD]

What we're debating is not outing oneself to law schools (I think most law schools save Baylor, Ave Maria, and other crappy right-wing law schools are sympathetic to LGBT diversity statements), but rather whether California or Texas are more LGBT friendly. In other words, we're not debating the merits of telling the University of Houston that you're gay but rather if you want to live in Texas.

Who's debating whether to live in Texas? Texas > California, gay, straight, or left-handed.

Abstentions/apathy do indeed say something about the degree of support in Texas, but I very much doubt it's a positive message.

Then you can draw a positive message from the fact that an openly gay Houstonian was elected mayor a few months ago despite a smear campaign.

(edited to quote the correct commenter.)

[FunkyJD]

Not to get into an LGBT debate, but just by demographics alone, California is going to be more liberal towards LGBTs than Texas. When it comes down to cities, I'm sure it becomes more subjective. LA is very large --> I seriously doubt you're asserting that Dallas > WeHo or Westwood. If you're talking innercity LA, then of course it's bound to be more homophobic.

I won't belabor this, because this isn't the best forum to discuss this, but while WeHo is probably more accepting than Lubbock, Houston is more probably more accepting than Bakersfield. If California is going to be more liberal on this issue than Texas, what happened with Prop 8?

And I'm not talking about inner city LA. Having worked and lived in Hollywood, I'll assert that it can be fairly homophobic.

The point is that OP will be just fine, and shouldn't feel uncomfortable applying to SMU or UH.

I have no horse in this race because I'm going to LA either way and one more gay in CA has no impact on me, but if gay marriage bans are an inverse barometer for LGBT tolerance:
Proposition 8 (California) passed by 52.2%
Proposition 2 (Texas) passed by 75.5%

So I suppose the better question is what happened to proposition 2 and the fact that less than 24% of the population supports equal rights?

Isn't California supposed to be the liberal state?

Also, what law school is in Bakersfield?

Why does it matter? The argument seems to be whether California is more liberal than Texas on acceptance of gays. Bakersfield is in California. You did say, "California is going to be more liberal towards LGBTs than Texas."

[amg0996]

i dont know how balyor became part of this discussion but as a precaution, dont go to baylor. i lived near waco most of my life and took the lsat at baylor. im on the brown side and when i visited before the test i felt extremely uncomfortable. if you drive through the city its a depressing site, one half is a black man on the street with a can of beer and on the other side (of highway 35) is a fratty person jogging with their poodle. currently i live in dallas and smu is a little conservative, but in most cities in texas, at least imo, conservative shifts towards libertarian, so march together against the war but dont talk about social issues. Aside, it was fun taking the lsat at baylor, meaning i scored high enough to never have to worry about going there, which doesnt mean much. Anyways my sister did ut law and she still talks about how she likes houston. houston has a very good reputation among lawyers and a very large market. in short go to houston if you dont mind the humidity. unt is opening a law school in dallas so smu will have to compete.
i heard i dont know if this is true, and i probably shouldnt be saying this, but............ i have a friend who has a friend who went to baylor, and she said, being gay and all, that she had to hide the fact or she would have been kicked out.

[Snooker]

Younger people in Texas with college educations tend to be much kinder to minorities / LGBT than their counterparts in the north or west. You should be perfectly fine in Houston.

[kalvano]

Do you think including a diversity statement about lgbt hardship is a good idea for the University of Houston or Southern Methodist University? I know they are in relatively conservative areas of the country, and I do not want to put myself in a disadvantageous position when applying.....any advice would be great. Thanks!

Don't confuse backwoods, small-town Texas with the major cities. The major cities are like any other major city - very open minded and fair-to-moderately liberal.

Thanks! I did not know Houston elected a gay mayor. Is Southern Methodist a conservative school? I have been trying to figure out how religiously based the school is......also, Seattle is great....I went to UW for undergrad.....best time of my life!

Why are you applying to Texas when there are a bazillion other schools in more LGBT-friendly areas for you to attend law school? IMO UT-Austin is the only Texan law school that an LGBT kid is guaranteed a decent social life.

Are you kidding? Dallas has a huge gay community, fairly close to SMU, too.

I know Dallas is consistently ranked one of the most gay-friendly cities in the USA.

[kalvano]

unt is opening a law school in dallas so smu will have to compete.

Not so much.

At least not for quite some time.

[Grond]

i dont know how balyor became part of this discussion but as a precaution, dont go to baylor. i lived near waco most of my life and took the lsat at baylor. im on the brown side and when i visited before the test i felt extremely uncomfortable. if you drive through the city its a depressing site, one half is a black man on the street with a can of beer and on the other side (of highway 35) is a fratty person jogging with their poodle. currently i live in dallas and smu is a little conservative, but in most cities in texas, at least imo, conservative shifts towards libertarian, so march together against the war but dont talk about social issues. Aside, it was fun taking the lsat at baylor, meaning i scored high enough to never have to worry about going there, which doesnt mean much. Anyways my sister did ut law and she still talks about how she likes houston. houston has a very good reputation among lawyers and a very large market. in short go to houston if you dont mind the humidity. unt is opening a law school in dallas so smu will have to compete.
i heard i dont know if this is true, and i probably shouldnt be saying this, but............ i have a friend who has a friend who went to baylor, and she said, being gay and all, that she had to hide the fact or she would have been kicked out.

Isn't Baylor's mascot a big hairy dude?

[jay115]

Not to get into an LGBT debate, but just by demographics alone, California is going to be more liberal towards LGBTs than Texas. When it comes down to cities, I'm sure it becomes more subjective. LA is very large --> I seriously doubt you're asserting that Dallas > WeHo or Westwood. If you're talking innercity LA, then of course it's bound to be more homophobic.

I won't belabor this, because this isn't the best forum to discuss this, but while WeHo is probably more accepting than Lubbock, Houston is more probably more accepting than Bakersfield. If California is going to be more liberal on this issue than Texas, what happened with Prop 8?

And I'm not talking about inner city LA. Having worked and lived in Hollywood, I'll assert that it can be fairly homophobic.

The point is that OP will be just fine, and shouldn't feel uncomfortable applying to SMU or UH.

I have no horse in this race because I'm going to LA either way and one more gay in CA has no impact on me, but if gay marriage bans are an inverse barometer for LGBT tolerance:
Proposition 8 (California) passed by 52.2%
Proposition 2 (Texas) passed by 75.5%

So I suppose the better question is what happened to proposition 2 and the fact that less than 24% of the population supports equal rights?

Isn't California supposed to be the liberal state?

Also, what law school is in Bakersfield?

Why does it matter? The argument seems to be whether California is more liberal than Texas on acceptance of gays. Bakersfield is in California. You did say, "California is going to be more liberal towards LGBTs than Texas."

California is the liberal state. If you weren't aware, both propositions were to ban gay marriage, so a higher percentage means more people want to ban gay marriage. Thus, I'm not sure I understand your question.

As to the Bakersfield remark - you were comparing Dallas to Bakersfield, as SMU is in Dallas. It's a fallacious argument because there's no equivalent law school in Bakersfield. Even if we were to extrapolate the discussion to encompass the state, your argument would still be fallacious. Bakersfield does not represent the totality of California, as Dallas does not represent the totality of Texas. If the debate is whether California or Texas is more gay friendly as a whole, then comparing Bakersfield to Dallas is clearly bullshit. Dallas is one of the largest cities in Texas, so you should have been more intellectually honest in your comparison and chosen one of the largest cities in California, such as Los Angeles or San Francisco.